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Calguns LEOs LEOs; chat, kibitz and relax. Non-LEOs; have a questions for a cop? Ask it here, in a CIVIL manner.

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  #1  
Old 09-21-2013, 9:47 AM
b_madeiros b_madeiros is offline
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Default Speeding Ticket

How many LEOs here give speeding tickets to Nurses responding to Code Blue at work? I was called in to work because of a shortage and was speeding to help out on a Code Blue. Radar says 80 and I got the ticket and the CHP seemed upset when I mentioned I had a firearm and permit too. Any opinions I thought some LEOs are more relaxed in these type of situations.
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Old 09-21-2013, 10:12 AM
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Two questions:

1 What is a code blue?
2 Why did you mention you had a CCW permit and a gun? How did that come up in a traffic stop? Was that a relevant issue?

Last edited by 003; 09-21-2013 at 10:14 AM..
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  #3  
Old 09-21-2013, 10:17 AM
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Generally speaking law enforcement will try to not give citations to hospital employees (Dr's, nurses, etc with I.D.). For the most part L.E. tries to not write up people who they may have to interact with on a daily or emergency basis.

Now playing devils advocate, you responding to your hospital to "help out" with a code blue is a real lame excuse. I have no idea where you live but if your hospital does not have enough people on to help out with a code blue to the point they are calling people to respond code 3 in their personal vehicles, your hospital has a whole lot of problems (Legal and ethical). In your situation baring a major trauma event (Plane crash, earthquake) your reasoning holds no water. I highly doubt that your hospital said "respond code 3 in your non code 3 equipped personal vehicle and YA YA YA, we are fully aware you have never been trained to drive code 3" to help out with someone coding out who will be brain dead if you do not arrive in under three minutes.

Like I said CHP are a different breed but I think you shot yourself in the foot (no pun intended) with your excuse. No cop likes being lied to or lame excuses; you would have better served saying that you were just late to work.

EDIT:

If anyone is wondering why the above statement no longer flows, it is because it has been edited by Retired. It is funny that on a web forum supporting the second amendment, the first amendment is looked down upon.

Last edited by baz152; 09-21-2013 at 7:50 PM..
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Old 09-21-2013, 10:23 AM
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How much help will you be if you don't arrive? That is the question I asked a volunteer fire fighter responding to the station who ran 2 red lights without even a slight tap on the brakes at major intersections. He did not stop or even slow down when I tried to stop him.
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Old 09-21-2013, 10:36 AM
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That aside, he is correct about the other stuff.

I have no idea what a code blue is, and I am pretty sure if I called your hospital if you're authorized to roll code 3 to the hospital the response would be a resounding "no!"

Unfortunately, wolf has been called so many times (and people are pretty imaginative)

Last edited by retired; 09-21-2013 at 1:23 PM..
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Old 09-21-2013, 10:37 AM
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+1 on what Baz said - there should be No need for you to emergency respond (i.e. no excuse for you to break any laws) to a respiratory or cardiac arrest in progress at a hospital. I probably wouldn't buy the responding to a staffing shortage excuse either. Fwiw, I Am a believer in extending professional courtesy to emergency medical personnel.
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Old 09-21-2013, 10:38 AM
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I dont drive recklessly generally during a code nurses are shunted into the room while minimal staff takes over the rest of the floor God forbid two codes are ran at the same time. Code Blue is cardiac arrest. It was Sunday on hwy 50 no traffic. and Yes I have observed CHP pull over other "undercover" crown vics. I am obliged by my county sheriff to mention I am armed. I thought its common courtesy to mention when a firearm is present on a civilian.

Last edited by b_madeiros; 09-21-2013 at 10:42 AM..
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Old 09-21-2013, 12:15 PM
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When you look at the time you lost when stopped for the speeding ticket, you would have arrived at work much earlier had you been going the speed limit.

As others have said, you can't be of help if you don't arrive, either by crashing or being stopped and cited.

I've let a lot of E/R staff off with warnings, but I've also been lied to several times by E/R staff and discovered their lies by stopping by the Hospital and following up on their excuses. Sometimes, LEO's get tired of hearing it.

The bottom line is don't go over 5 over the limit and you likely are not going to get stopped.
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Old 09-21-2013, 2:00 PM
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Really retired? I thought it was a pretty good pun ;-)
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Old 09-21-2013, 2:04 PM
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I usually wont cite nurses unless they give me attitude.
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  #11  
Old 09-21-2013, 2:10 PM
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everyone has good valid points. It was my fault for speeding I understand that. Its also good to know there are some LEOs out there who understand what we do on a daily basis and can give a pass here and there.
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Old 09-21-2013, 4:01 PM
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I was not a traffic car, and I didn't write many tickets when I was working patrol. I only gave tickets to the drivers who wanted to argue with my for my reason to stop.
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Old 09-21-2013, 4:13 PM
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You could try to fight it, but, the judge may tell you that if they cannot do a code blue without calling someone in for help, they should go into another line of work. Maybe a Pizza business, where a couple of minutes either way doesn't matter.
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Old 09-21-2013, 4:28 PM
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You have NO excuse to break the law, you speed you pay, stop trying to get a free ride.
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Old 09-21-2013, 5:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnthomas View Post
You could try to fight it, but, the judge may tell you that if they cannot do a code blue without calling someone in for help, they should go into another line of work. Maybe a Pizza business, where a couple of minutes either way doesn't matter.
no need to fight it. I have consulted my lawyer already he mentioned the traffic judge is suspending DL in sac county for speeding. Its funny that you are the second person to mention going into a different line of work. I save lives daily there is no better rush then getting adrenline going during a code. maybe thats why i was rushing...just a thought. because I get a ticket it will not convince me to make pizzas.

Last edited by b_madeiros; 09-21-2013 at 5:36 PM..
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Old 09-21-2013, 6:06 PM
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Hey BM, in case you didn't know, there are more than a few non-leo yahoos here who like to reply to questions specifically asked to leos...
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  #17  
Old 09-21-2013, 6:17 PM
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I noticed that. I have been around. My neighbor is a Chipper and i have two cousin that are LEOs hell I almost became a CO twice...I can tell when people like to play internet COP
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Old 09-22-2013, 1:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toby View Post
You have NO excuse to break the law, you speed you pay, stop trying to get a free ride.
If you're not a LEO, go away.

If you are a LEO, your attitude needs some serious adjustment.

The OP asked a valid question and wasn't looking for a free ride.

I never knowingly cited a nurse, doctor, or hose jockey, with one exception. That was because he was being a major Adam Henry and really needed the ticket. I also avoided citing military and school teachers if I could avoid it. Teachers put up with too much other nonsense.
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Old 09-22-2013, 7:34 AM
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I would send you on your way but then again im not CHP
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Old 09-22-2013, 9:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron-Solo View Post
If you're not a LEO, go away.

If you are a LEO, your attitude needs some serious adjustment.

The OP asked a valid question and wasn't looking for a free ride.

I never knowingly cited a nurse, doctor, or hose jockey, with one exception. That was because he was being a major Adam Henry and really needed the ticket. I also avoided citing military and school teachers if I could avoid it. Teachers put up with too much other nonsense.
I got a kick out of the new pilot LACOFD hired 6-7 years ago named Adam Henry. I think it was because he really is a peach of a guy and can fly the **** out of those copters.
Every Chippie that stopped at my station swore they didn't write firemen, but we heard about 2-3 guys a month that got tagged by chippies, no questions asked.
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Old 09-22-2013, 11:05 AM
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From my perspective, a good attitude (and a relatively clean driving record) goes a long way.

On the other hand, if someone is going to be rude and discourteous and I see they've gotten cited for multiple repeat violations in the past, well sit tight because I write slow.

Last edited by retired; 09-26-2013 at 11:42 AM..
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  #22  
Old 09-22-2013, 1:15 PM
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Btw, for those of you Reasonably Intelligent regular folks who don't have a reading comprehension problem and who might be wondering - there IS this thing called Discretion. No one is saying certain people or groups ALWAYS get a "pass" OR those who aren't certain people or in certain groups NEVER get a "pass". I've given "passes" to all sorts of regular folks for all sorts of stuff including minor arrestable offenses and warrants (much less for infractions like speeding). Attitude goes a Long way with me - respect, honesty, responsibility, humility, etc. If you want to act like a crybaby, b1tch and moan, and point fingers elsewhere like SOME people (not saying specifically who) your chances for getting a break rapidly diminish towards zero.

Last edited by retired; 09-26-2013 at 11:42 AM..
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  #23  
Old 09-22-2013, 7:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b_madeiros View Post
How many LEOs here give speeding tickets to Nurses responding to Code Blue at work? I was called in to work because of a shortage and was speeding to help out on a Code Blue. Radar says 80 and I got the ticket and the CHP seemed upset when I mentioned I had a firearm and permit too. Any opinions I thought some LEOs are more relaxed in these type of situations.

i wouldn't have given you a ticket...


chp has a hard time seeing the results of serious traffic accidents. i don't fault them, but sorry you got the ticket.
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  #24  
Old 09-22-2013, 7:02 PM
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Originally Posted by GoZoner View Post
Shocking, the law doesn't apply equally to all. Have a good attitude, show respect but not be 'a nurse, doctor or hose jockey [... or ...] military or school teacher' and you get a ticket. You also get that ticket unless I 'may have to interact with on a daily or emergency basis' - which sounds like code for "no ticket if you are my 'buddy'" Shocking, just shocking.
I also gave thousands of warnings to "regular folks" in my career.

Sad thing is, too many outside of those listed professions start with a poor attitude or that surly phrase, "What did you stop me for?" when they generally know exactly what they got stopped for. You want to guarantee a ticket, use that line, or the "you just stopped me because I'm _______, or my favorite, "Why aren't you out catching real criminals?"
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Old 09-22-2013, 7:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b_madeiros View Post
no need to fight it. I have consulted my lawyer already he mentioned the traffic judge is suspending DL in sac county for speeding. Its funny that you are the second person to mention going into a different line of work. I save lives daily there is no better rush then getting adrenline going during a code. maybe thats why i was rushing...just a thought. because I get a ticket it will not convince me to make pizzas.
I think you misunderstood my post. The facility you work at should have the ability to take care of a code blue without relying on someone that is not there. You obviously do good work and I wouldn't suggest you find something else other than what you love and do well at.
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Old 09-22-2013, 9:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoZoner View Post
Shocking, the law doesn't apply equally to all. Have a good attitude, show respect but not be 'a nurse, doctor or hose jockey [... or ...] military or school teacher' and you get a ticket. You also get that ticket unless I 'may have to interact with on a daily or emergency basis' - which sounds like code for "no ticket if you are my 'buddy'" Shocking, just shocking.
The objective of a stop is to gain compliance for the law. This does apply equally, it is the disposition that may be different and that is at the discretion of the officer. If the person seems to be truly sorry and honestly acknowledges their mistake, then there may be room for a warning. If they display an attitude that shows that they really don't care that they were speeding or deny it, then it is quite obvious that they will most likely just do it again and a warning will only reinforce their poor behavior.

I suppose that you have the same problem with traffic court. Do you believe that everyone that is found guilty should receive the same fine no matter the circumstances, that everyone should be fined the maximum amount allowed by the law?
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Old 09-22-2013, 9:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b_madeiros View Post
How many LEOs here give speeding tickets to Nurses responding to Code Blue at work? I was called in to work because of a shortage and was speeding to help out on a Code Blue. Radar says 80 and I got the ticket and the CHP seemed upset when I mentioned I had a firearm and permit too. Any opinions I thought some LEOs are more relaxed in these type of situations.
According to more than a couple of the posters on this site and gun owners elsewhere, your mention of the firearm should have resulted in an immediate search of your vehicle, a colonoscopy to check for more firearms, and finally the seizure of your firearm(s). Personally, I doubt his being "upset" had anything to do with your firearm and permit. He was probably more upset by what he/she saw (whether or not it was your intention) as a lame excuse to get out of a ticket.

The problem with being "relaxed" on such a traffic stop is the fact that: a) you were violating the law b) you were attempting to justify your putting of other motorists at risk for really no reason (It is good that extra help was on its way to the hospital, but its not like you were a neurosurgeon on his way to save a patient's life. You need to arrive in one piece to be on hand to assist in any potential crisis) c) you had a firearm in the vehicle d) it is not only "bad looking" people with firearms kill other folks. LEO's get killed by all sorts of people who are in all kinds of professions/socioeconomic levels. Heck, some of the "bad guys" even are/used to be LEO's themselves! This is not an excuse to be a jerk or unprofessional, but it is simply the reality that being "relaxed" is not ever a good state to be in when working the road as a LEO.

As for those who have whined in about LEO's giving hospital staff/whoever a break, I give all kinds of people breaks. But I can also say that if I ever pull a LEO over for some stupid driving or if they try just waving a badge at me and driving off as I walk up in their off duty car, you can bet they will be getting a ticket and a phone call to their supervisor (for the last one!). And that is the same response (ticket/phone call to a supervisor if necessary due to the stop's relation to the offenders line of work) I would give to anyone else driving like an idiot.
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Old 09-22-2013, 9:48 PM
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If you don't have a red light and siren, you're putting everyone in danger by speeding to work.

If the hospital is short handed, they could call the fire dept in an emergency situation to get help until off duty personnel (like you) arrived.

Anyone killed or injured while you're speeding to the hospital would sue you for negligence, not the hospital you work for.

It's a no-win situation. Drive normally and get there safely. Whoever lives, lives and who dies, dies.

It's not up to you.
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Old 09-22-2013, 10:02 PM
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I think you misunderstood my post. The facility you work at should have the ability to take care of a code blue without relying on someone that is not there. You obviously do good work and I wouldn't suggest you find something else other than what you love and do well at.
your right and they can. I can put a code in way you can relate, like when multiple officers respond to a call when they know there is enough help but there is always ways to reduce the load even more. I was more ambitious then i should have been and I know my driving record is not pretty either. Hell I made it to the CHP interview but was killed in it after being question about my previous driving record.
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Old 09-23-2013, 6:40 AM
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Originally Posted by b_madeiros View Post
I know my driving record is not pretty either. Hell I made it to the CHP interview but was killed in it after being question about my previous driving record.
Now that you brought this up, this is a major contributing factor, at least to me in my decision to cite or not to cite. A poor driving record shows an inability on the driver to comply with the law. I don't know if this was a factor in your case, but it could have been if your driving record still shows multiple offenses.

This is why L/E is given discretion. It's a judgement call on a particular situation to make a reasonable, correct decision given the particular circumstances.
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Old 09-24-2013, 6:41 PM
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Now if you were a physician, CVC 21058, may have been a different story.
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Old 09-24-2013, 7:49 PM
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Originally Posted by micro911 View Post
I was not a traffic car, and I didn't write many tickets when I was working patrol. I only gave tickets to the drivers who wanted to argue with my for my reason to stop.
Same here. I did not like writing tickets, and never worked traffic.
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Old 09-24-2013, 10:50 PM
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Unless you lie to me or come at me with a huge attitude, your getting off with a warning.
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Old 09-25-2013, 12:25 PM
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OP,
Some CHP are wrapped a little tight because their primary duties are limited to traffic enforcement (CHP compared to city cops is a post for another day).

Most city cops have traffic units and some, including one I worked for, made everyone write tickets (quotas). Every cop has their own criteria as to who gets a pass on a cite. The danger of the violation is usually the first criteria. It is a discretionary infraction or misdemeanor, and each officer decides whether or not to cite. Going 80 mph is above the state speed limit and even doctor's are subject to a cite as this speed is not exempt under CVC21058 (nurses are not exempt under this statute).

My personal list of people I will not cite are public safety personal (sworn police, and fire and their immediate spouse), nurses and doctors(we need these folks on our side when doing our job at ER's and when they may be pulling a bullet out of me one day), clergy, active military, and people who have influence over my agencies budget. I also usually take it easy on the elderly and very young drivers with no priors. A really bad attitude from any of the above (except for PS) is a game changer.

Your Code Blue reasoning is not a good reason unless there was a major mass casualty event occurring and most cops would probably be working it too...but there may be a chippie still lurking out there (only kidding, love you guys).
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Old 09-25-2013, 1:11 PM
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Seems like most of the tickets are determined by attitude. Nice to see really mature responses from adults. I'd think principles would play into the issuance of a ticket, but that just got thrown out the window.
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Old 09-25-2013, 3:21 PM
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Originally Posted by professorfate View Post
Seems like most of the tickets are determined by attitude.

Jumping to conclusions with "most". Attitude is ONE Factor.

Nice to see really mature responses from adults.

Sarcastic/facetious or straight?

I'd think principles would play into the issuance of a ticket, but that just got thrown out the window.

Care to explain what you meant by that?
embedded

ETA nevermind - just another POS troll now on Ignore

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Old 09-25-2013, 3:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by professorfate View Post
Seems like most of the tickets are determined by attitude. Nice to see really mature responses from adults. I'd think principles would play into the issuance of a ticket, but that just got thrown out the window.
Since the purpose of stopping someone for a violation is to gain compliance of the law, and the issuance of a citation is only one of the options used to gain compliance, what is your point?
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Old 09-25-2013, 5:42 PM
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The best way for anyone to avoid a ticket is honesty and humility. Sorry officer, I was speeding because of 'x'. If you approach it with abpositive attitude of contrision than 9 out of 10 times I didn't write you the ticket. bif the person stopped immediately had a bothered, annoyed attitude or said 'arent there better things to be doing' they always got a ticket.

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Old 09-25-2013, 5:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smguser View Post
Now if you were a physician, CVC 21058, may have been a different story.
21058 only applies to Prima Facia speeds(22350) and not to max speed violations. Most hospitals will not touch these anymore due to the liability it opens them up for or so I have been told by a ER doctor I am friends with. In all reality I have stopped more cars than I care to think about and have never come across a ER doctor trying to pull this exemption.

The best chance for me issuing a warning is if someone is humble and does not lie to me. Lying to me or having a poor attitude is a guarantee you will be leaving the encounter with at least a ticket.

Last edited by 22348b cvc; 09-25-2013 at 6:07 PM..
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Old 09-25-2013, 6:54 PM
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akoba akoba is offline
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You bring your firearm in hospital building? Most Hospitals don't allowed firearm inside the building (except LEO). Or you leave it in your car on the parking lot? Worse idea leaving it in the parking lot.
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