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  #1  
Old 09-20-2013, 11:23 AM
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Default Have to move from regular DSL to U-Verse

So AT&T finally started offering U-Verse in our neighborhood. At first I was planning to switch over from regular AT&T ADLS to U-Verse for the increased speed, but then as all my neighbors started switching to U-Verse our ADSL speed started going up. It's now twice as fast as it was a couple of months ago. Sweet! I figure we'll stick with ADSL. 2.5 Mbps is fine and we won''t have to buy the new U-Verse gateway and deal with setting up our home network again.

BZZZT!!! WRONG!!!

AT&T now says they are shutting down the old ADSL network and we have to switch to U-Verse. But they will double our speed, not charge us for the new modem and will keep our monthly charges the same. Okay, not so bad.

BUT THEN!!!

UPS just dropped off the new modem. It's a 2WIRE 3600HGV. This thing is HUGE. It's over 10 time bigger than our current ADSL modem. I hope it doesn't sound like a vacuum cleaner when plugged in. And it looks like there is no way to put this thing into true "bridge" mode. Apparently there's an almost bridge mode that people online say can be set up to work with our Apple Airport. Hopefully the setup won't be too complicated. But there is no way to use a smaller 3rd party modem with U-Verse. You have to use the AT&T supplied device.

I've got about 15 web pages open on my browser right now, each one with different set up suggestions and trouble shooting guides. I need to leave the pages open because until I get the new modem set up we won't have internet service.
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Old 09-21-2013, 1:29 PM
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Solution: http://forums.att.com/t5/Residential...p/td-p/2707013
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Old 09-21-2013, 3:08 PM
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Yea, the ATM network and the routers and Redbacks were/are tapped out. Uverse IP network does not use PPPoE for authenification so there is no user/password to plug into router for bridge mode. You can still use a 3rd party router by putting it in DHCP mode and just let the 2 Wire assign it an IP and you can disable DHCP server if you want to or you might have IP conflicts as you can not have two DHCP servers. Thats how i got mine with an E1000 Cisco.
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Old 09-21-2013, 7:07 PM
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Originally Posted by NoSpam View Post
Yep, that was one of the 15 pages I had open on my computer. The 2WIRE could only be configured over ethernet, so I ended up having to take a picture of my computer screen upstairs with my girlfriend's iPad so I could more easily follow the 14 part instructions down in the basement with the modem.

We're getting just over 7.0 Mbps right now with the U-verse. For the past year our "up to 3.0 Mbps" DSL plan was doing about 1.5 Mbps until it rose to 2.5 Mbps last month.

Weird thing is, web pages seem to take more time to begin loading now, but once they start loading they load way faster. It's as if it takes longer to find web pages.
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Old 09-21-2013, 7:59 PM
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They might be using different DNS addresses for u-verse vs dsl. Check your router settings to see if you have DNS set for DHCP or if it's static.
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Old 09-21-2013, 9:09 PM
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No cable internet in your area? Cable is faster!
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Old 09-21-2013, 9:37 PM
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Just made the switch to Uverse from 6mbit DSL today. Pages don't noticeably load any faster, but download speeds from my box in Houston are almost 4 times quicker ... for $20 less a month. The agg router and its large fiber trunk are about 1/4 mile from the place we just moved into.

Not wild about the new router though. They took a lot of the config utilities away from the end user.

Cable in this area, while faster at times, is crap overall.
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Old 09-21-2013, 10:05 PM
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The reason they took away some config features is because that gateway is a multi-use device. It is also used to receive video from the VHO and Voip. If you start coding new DNS servers it wouldnt function for the other things its used for. FYI Uverse platform is all Interleave vs Fastpath for Adsl. You wouldnt notice it unless you compare ping rates, which uverse may ping a few MS slower
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Old 09-21-2013, 10:20 PM
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U verse sucks, since they forced me to switch I have only problems and technicians are coming twice a month, I told them one more connection problem and I'm switching out...but what is the other option?
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Old 09-22-2013, 12:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Licht View Post
No cable internet in your area? Cable is faster!
I really wanted to go with cable, but they need to dig a trench trough my front yard to put in the cable and they can only give me a two week window for when the digging crew might show up. I don't want them cutting through my lawn sprinklers or natural gas pipe.


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...FYI Uverse platform is all Interleave vs Fastpath for Adsl. You wouldnt notice it unless you compare ping rates, which uverse may ping a few MS slower
The ping rates are twice as slow (used to be 23 now is 50), but the download speed is three times faster. Don't really know what that means though.
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Old 09-22-2013, 3:13 PM
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I really wanted to go with cable, but they need to dig a trench trough my front yard to put in the cable and they can only give me a two week window for when the digging crew might show up. I don't want them cutting through my lawn sprinklers or natural gas pipe.




The ping rates are twice as slow (used to be 23 now is 50), but the download speed is three times faster. Don't really know what that means though.
It basically is an error correcting function that takes place before first router hop.
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  #12  
Old 09-23-2013, 10:49 PM
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U-verse, ATT's attempt to leverage old copper while staying away from dirty sounding things like 'DSL.' It's really all DSL technology. Watching U-verse TV slows your internet (But they do allot some buffer for this).
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  #13  
Old 09-25-2013, 7:15 AM
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I was an AT&T DSL customer from 2004-2008. In 2008, they introduced U Verse in our area and I switched. Been pretty happy with the reliability of the service, as I work from home some days and need reliable internet service.
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Old 09-25-2013, 8:02 AM
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So far I'm happy with Uverse speeds and connectivity, but man o' man... getting mail to work properly has been an issue.

I don't use ATT for mail, I POP or IMAP mail from my own box. ATT doesn't like it when you have offsite mail.
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Old 09-25-2013, 8:22 AM
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Everyone I know who has AT&T is not happy with it. If it is the only option for an ISP, then that's it. Most areas have cable as an option, which is in nearly every case I've experienced faster and more reliable!

I'm a g33k and I have cable, and yes I live in an AT&T area! My Cable is faster and less expensive!
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Old 09-25-2013, 8:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Darryl Licht View Post
Everyone I know who has AT&T is not happy with it. If it is the only option for an ISP, then that's it. Most areas have cable as an option, which is in nearly every case I've experienced faster and more reliable!

I'm a g33k and I have cable, and yes I live in an AT&T area! My Cable is faster and less expensive!
Cable service quality depends on the service area. Here, cable is more expensive and speeds are meh. This area is a Tier 1 market for AT&T, but is Tier 2 for cable and other providers.
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Old 09-25-2013, 9:47 AM
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I would only leave FiOS-areas for free-state-liberty, with some property.
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Old 09-25-2013, 9:59 AM
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I've used ATT U-Verse for years, probably one of it's earliest customers because our area was the test area. I waited to find out what others thought during the test period and when ATT finally came to my door I made a deal with them.

Before that I tried Comcast, DirecTV, and the other satellite company. I will say that of all of them I hated Comcast the most. I will NEVER use them again. They came to my door the other day and said, "We know you were a customer and we'd like to win your business back." I'm not sure he finished saying that before the door closed in his face.

Of the others I liked Direct TV, but I still had to have DSL for internet.

I switched to ATT and I knew there were going to be glitches. This was years ago, but they steadily improved the system. The one thing I always liked was the TV interface, it made Comcast seem completely antiquated.

I wired my house with CAT5e, put in a business class 24 port switch and more powerful WAP and recently a QNAP NAS. It works.

A couple years ago I switched to the U-Verse voice service through the ATT Gateway and have NOT been happy with it. It gives you some extra flexibility, but does not filter unwanted calls well.

BTW - I don't recommend using any type of "Cloud Service" for important data for two reasons. First, you cannot trust the privacy of the data no matter what they say. And second, they are not as fool proof as advertised. Keep your data local.
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Old 09-25-2013, 12:41 PM
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They might be using different DNS addresses for u-verse vs dsl. Check your router settings to see if you have DNS set for DHCP or if it's static.
LOLWUT?
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Old 09-27-2013, 5:35 AM
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LOLWUT?

The OP's description of the problem: "Weird thing is, web pages seem to take more time to begin loading now, but once they start loading they load way faster. It's as if it takes longer to find web pages."

DNS (domain name service) is the protocol that translates a web address to an IP address (and vice versa). It works like a phonebook. You look up a person's name (website name), and it translates it into a phone number (IP address), and makes the call (loads webpage).

When you want to get to this site, you type "www.calguns.net" into your browser. It contacts the DNS server, which translates the name www.calguns.net to it's IP address of 216.218.212.231. Your browser then connects to calguns by going to that IP.

If pages are loading fast, but taking a long time to find the page, then it points to a latency or DNS issue. OP mentioned that they wanted to continue using their Apple Airport behind the new 2Wire gateway. Most likely the new Uverse service uses different DNS servers than the old DSL service. If the Apple Airport or the PC's are still be configured with the DSL settings instead of the Uverse settings, it will still resolve web sites eventually, but it will add latency to the process.

You can't call to your buddy unless you know his phone number. If you can't get to your phonebook to find his number, you'll either be delayed in making the call, or won't be able to call at all.
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Old 09-27-2013, 11:49 AM
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If the issue happens every time he clears his browser cache (not the DNS cache) then it's a global latency issue or a latency issue with certain resources/networks.

If subsequent page pulls with the DNS info cached are better (but browser cache cleared), you've got a DNS responsiveness issue.

You could always just ping your ISP DNS servers and see what they're at. Now, that won't tell you how fast the server responds to actual DNS requests (the ping won't hit any lookup databases and pretty much only hits the interface of the server(s) being pinged)

I like to use this resource when testing for VOIP quality issues

http://myspeed.visualware.com/indexvoip.php

Would work for helping you point out latency/jitter problems.
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Old 09-27-2013, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by NoSpam View Post
...DNS (domain name service) is the protocol that translates "looks up" a web address DNS resolvable domain name to an IP address (and vice versa). It works like a phonebook. You look up a person's name (website namedomain_name/FQDN), and it translates resolves it into a phone number (IP address), and makes the call (loads webpagetalks on a pre-defined port for the applicable service(usually application specific))...
Fixed it. If it translated it DNS would probably be assign a domain name to a company, then it would be tied to a provider, as they own the address pool, and pools can be changed, just like providers. No translation, but resolution, or lookup... I remember seeing "translat*" references in old MS cert, and Linux cert. books. Are they still using that term?
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Old 09-27-2013, 12:08 PM
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U-verse in the big cities is supposedly fiberoptic. Here in sticks where I am, it's still copper wire. But they pushed me into it anyway, by raising DSL rates, and giving me a promotional U-verse rate and a free modem.
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Old 09-27-2013, 12:42 PM
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U-verse is fiber optic. It's not fiber to your house though. It's fiber to the "last mile" or, the point where your house and the communal 'box' begins.

You use twisted pair copper from your house to said box over DSL. U-verse was a cheap(er) way for ATT to bring in TV and voice services without the distance issues of DSL from house to Central Office. Back in the 'old school' days, the copper pair phone lines went from your house to the C/O. For analog voice this was OK; you can pass analog voice over pretty long distances with acceptable quality. However, when we started passing along packets on the same copper, you start to run into distance and other limitations; data requires PRISTINE quality connections to work well. This is why some people *****ed and moaned about DSL and some were great with it; this generally had to do with how far one was from the C/O.

With U-verse, they bring very high quality fiber optic connections from the equivalent of a C/O to a small geographic location, then use that copper that's already in the ground to bring it to the customers. As a result, your DSL signal doesn't have to go very far and quality/speed capabilities improve immensely in some cases.

When you make the (or they make you) switch, they cut your copper over from the old box to the new box that has the fiber in it.

It gets more technical than that, but that's the most of it.

Last edited by Fizz; 09-27-2013 at 12:50 PM..
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Old 09-27-2013, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by the86d View Post
Fixed it. If it translated it DNS would probably be assign a domain name to a company, then it would be tied to a provider, as they own the address pool, and pools can be changed, just like providers. No translation, but resolution, or lookup... I remember seeing "translat*" references in old MS cert, and Linux cert. books. Are they still using that term?
DNS is used to link a servers name eg. www.google.com to its actual numeric IP address. Domain Name Service makes using the Internet easy, otherwise you'd have to know that googles server was @ 74.125.239.48. <-- that's the servers actual IP... copy it into your browser and you will be taken to google with no name resolution because you aren't using the name!

I think you are confusing DHCP for DNS. DHCP at your ISP is like a dealer in a card game... it deals our dynamic IPs to users.

DNS is typically used to resolve a domain name to its static IP address!
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Old 09-27-2013, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Fizz View Post
U-verse is fiber optic. It's not fiber to your house though. It's fiber to the "last mile" or, the distance between your house and the communal 'box.'

You use twisted pair copper from your house to said box over DSL. U-verse was a cheap(er) way for ATT to bring in TV and voice services without the distance issues of DSL from house to Central Office.

There's just too much copper in the ground to not use it.
Some tier 1 providers actually offer fiber to the house, including AT&T. You are right though, most connections are still POTS copper to the agregator/concentrator.
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Old 09-27-2013, 12:56 PM
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Some tier 1 providers actually offer fiber to the house, including AT&T. You are right though, most connections are still POTS copper to the agregator/concentrator.
I work for an ISP so yeah I've seen it.

They're not going to be touching old construction residential with that though and that's what I'm limiting the discussion to.

If it's an old building I'll mostly see it in multi-tenant commercial buildings. Just walk into the MPOE and see fiber with TimeWarner, Cox, ATT, etc. labels.
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Old 09-27-2013, 1:04 PM
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U-verse is fiber optic. It's not fiber to your house though. It's fiber to the "last mile" or, the point where your house and the communal 'box' begins.
Sorry to burst your bubble here...

But the last mile is from the CO (Central Office) to your home. Unless you have FIOS you are still copper from CO to home/bus. The term "last mile: refers to the fact that it is the last (and most expensive) part to convert to fiber!

The remainder of the system from CO to local, regional, and long distance offices that connection is already fiber!
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Old 09-27-2013, 1:10 PM
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Sorry to burst your bubble here...

But the last mile is from the CO (Central Office) to your home. Unless you have FIOS you are still copper from CO to home/bus. The term "last mile: refers to the fact that it is the last (and most expensive) part to convert to fiber!

The remainder of the system from CO to local, regional, and long distance offices that connection is already fiber!
I corrected that in my post. Fiber to the point where the last mile begins.Better?
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Old 09-27-2013, 1:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Darryl Licht View Post
DNS is used to link a servers name domain name, or FQDN eg. google.com or www.google.com to its actual registered DNS for further resolution to numeric IP address. Domain Name Service makes using the Internet easy"resolving" domain names/FQDNames to IP addys via registered DNS servers, otherwise you'd have to know that googles server was @ 74.125.239.48. <-- that's the servers actual IP... copy it into your browser and you will be taken to google with no name resolution because you aren't using the name!
...
Fixed again.

If a company changed providers, and it was translated, then DNS wouldn't need updated records... DNS resolves registered domains (google.com) or hostnames (www.google.com, mail.google.com) to IP addys after DNS records are made.
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Old 09-27-2013, 2:44 PM
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Originally Posted by NoSpam View Post
The OP's description of the problem: "Weird thing is, web pages seem to take more time to begin loading now, but once they start loading they load way faster. It's as if it takes longer to find web pages."

DNS (domain name service) is the protocol that translates a web address to an IP address (and vice versa). It works like a phonebook. You look up a person's name (website name), and it translates it into a phone number (IP address), and makes the call (loads webpage).

When you want to get to this site, you type "www.calguns.net" into your browser. It contacts the DNS server, which translates the name www.calguns.net to it's IP address of 216.218.212.231. Your browser then connects to calguns by going to that IP.

If pages are loading fast, but taking a long time to find the page, then it points to a latency or DNS issue. OP mentioned that they wanted to continue using their Apple Airport behind the new 2Wire gateway. Most likely the new Uverse service uses different DNS servers than the old DSL service. If the Apple Airport or the PC's are still be configured with the DSL settings instead of the Uverse settings, it will still resolve web sites eventually, but it will add latency to the process.

You can't call to your buddy unless you know his phone number. If you can't get to your phonebook to find his number, you'll either be delayed in making the call, or won't be able to call at all.
It doesn't matter if they're using old DNS servers or the DNS servers that "aren't for their U-Verse service". DNS has no relation to service type. You can use whatever DNS server you'd like. Just changing services and using the same DNS as before wouldn't indicate a DNS issue. It's more likely than not a latency issue. Good analogies though, I'll be stealing the phonebook one
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Old 09-27-2013, 4:01 PM
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It doesn't matter if they're using old DNS servers or the DNS servers that "aren't for their U-Verse service". DNS has no relation to service type. You can use whatever DNS server you'd like. Just changing services and using the same DNS as before wouldn't indicate a DNS issue. It's more likely than not a latency issue. Good analogies though, I'll be stealing the phonebook one
If I were ATT I wouldn't allow subnets not part of the service type to access DNS. If this were happening he'd fail all lookups though.

Also, there's a good chance U-verse customers get routed completely different ways than DSL clients, there could be a latency increase; but it shouldn't be enough to be perceptible as it's still within ATT's network.

You don't generally start seeing large increases unless there's a problem between their trunks (unlikely) or you're crossing networks.

See:

http://www.internetpulse.net/
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Old 09-27-2013, 4:04 PM
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quick sign up with dsl extreme if you voluntarily join uverse you are locked into att's fiber monopoly
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Old 09-27-2013, 4:09 PM
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I got $100 visa gift card switching to Uverse.
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Old 09-27-2013, 4:34 PM
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You're right, using different DNS servers will eventually still find web pages, so long as they're valid DNS addresses. It can relate to the service type because both latency and hops should be lower on the host network, unless there is a problem with their DNS servers. For example, I could manually configure DNS addresses for an ISP in China and while webpages will eventually load, it will show you how latency outside of the host network will slow down your ability to resolve web addresses.

The question is whether att dsl and att uverse are technically on the same host network. Maybe they are and use the same DNS clusters these days? Maybe they are separate due to the addition of tv and voice that is available for uverse? Maybe their round robin is broken and everyone is hammering only 1 server in the cluster. To test, I would manually configure DNS using another ISP's servers, and compare. OpenDNS.org servers are a good choice for testing.
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Old 09-27-2013, 4:37 PM
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quick sign up with dsl extreme if you voluntarily join uverse you are locked into att's fiber monopoly
U-verse precludes CLECs?
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Old 09-27-2013, 5:52 PM
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U-verse precludes CLECs?
once your house has uverse you can not go back to dsl it has something to do with the lines copper is covered under the universal services but if you get tied to the fiber you are now locked in with att till they change some regulations
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Old 09-27-2013, 10:35 PM
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U-verse precludes CLECs?
More like CLECS preclude Uverse. If you have a 3rd party ISP working at your prem that uses ATT network for transport, it will have to be disco'd before Uverse can go in. Usually because that service is assigned to the cable pair reserved for Uverse. You can get the rep to create a new sub address off of main address to try to get around this. (Is occasionally an issue when a user has a T1 and Uverse became available)
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Old 09-28-2013, 8:38 AM
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More like CLECS preclude Uverse. If you have a 3rd party ISP working at your prem that uses ATT network for transport, it will have to be disco'd before Uverse can go in. Usually because that service is assigned to the cable pair reserved for Uverse. You can get the rep to create a new sub address off of main address to try to get around this. (Is occasionally an issue when a user has a T1 and Uverse became available)
He was indicating that once you go to U-verse you can't go back to DSL. I would believe this for going back to ATT DSL, but wasn't sure how it 'locked in' someone to ATT's fiber network unless CLECs can't touch any pairs anymore.
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Old 09-28-2013, 5:01 PM
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My u-verse speeds...and pretty much enough said. Ookla is at&t's recommended speed test site which just makes it even more pathetic. This is with nothing but my computer hooked up via ethernet to the the 3600HGV we have.
1.62mbps download 0.43 upload.

http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/2998809756
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