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  #41  
Old 09-17-2013, 6:45 AM
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If you can't afford $200 maybe you should start collecting bottle caps.

........
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  #42  
Old 09-17-2013, 6:50 AM
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Every gun I have ever sold I sold for a profit. 91/30. No shame in that. Why loose money when I can make it?
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  #43  
Old 09-17-2013, 7:34 AM
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I think the OP is actually referring to flipping mosins.

For instance, if you have a C&R, and you don't abide by the rules, you can buy lots of mosins for relatively little money and (illegally) turn around and sell them on calguns for significantly more than you paid for them. This is a no-no and punishable by law (since C&R holders aren't allowed to be in the business of selling guns).

If you don't have a C&R you can still buy a crate of mosins, have them shipped to an FFL, and resell them.

Otherwise, if you bought a mosin for $100 bucks in 1996, and you sell it for $150 now you are just accounting for inflation (at least according to the first inflation calculator I found on google) but it looks like you sold for a profit sort of.

Lots of people have lots of different views on what you are allowed to do with a C&R
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  #44  
Old 09-17-2013, 8:43 AM
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Quote:
or instance, if you have a C&R, and you don't abide by the rules, you can buy lots of mosins for relatively little money and (illegally) turn around and sell them on calguns for significantly more than you paid for them. This is a no-no and punishable by law (since C&R holders aren't allowed to be in the business of selling guns).
FUD
There is nothing that says as a C&R holder I can not sell guns for a profit. It just says I can not be a business and then it defines what they consider a business. My livelyhood has never been based on how many guns I sell nor has a significant portion of my income been based on it. But if I wanted to sell my entire collection tomorrow I could as long as I logged the guns out of my bound book and it would still be legal

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  #45  
Old 09-17-2013, 9:25 AM
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People have been doing that for years, why should now be any different?

If you don't like a the price (like anything else want you would buy) walk away..
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  #46  
Old 09-17-2013, 9:34 AM
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i have lost money on some mosins i sold,i guess i was a eager buyer and when it cam to sell nobody was a eager as i was. but i never lost very much , maybe 25 bucks. trying to sell a izzy ex sniper i bought for 350 not long ago for 275 and no takers. i bought it before i got my 44 tula PU sniper. now that i have a real WW 21 sniper i no longer want the ex sniper.
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  #47  
Old 09-17-2013, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by mj1 View Post
If you can't afford $200 maybe you should start collecting bottle caps.

........
its not that I cant afford it, I just know I can get it cheaper.
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  #48  
Old 09-17-2013, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NapalmCheese View Post
I think the OP is actually referring to flipping mosins.

For instance, if you have a C&R, and you don't abide by the rules, you can buy lots of mosins for relatively little money and (illegally) turn around and sell them on calguns for significantly more than you paid for them. This is a no-no and punishable by law (since C&R holders aren't allowed to be in the business of selling guns).

If you don't have a C&R you can still buy a crate of mosins, have them shipped to an FFL, and resell them.

Otherwise, if you bought a mosin for $100 bucks in 1996, and you sell it for $150 now you are just accounting for inflation (at least according to the first inflation calculator I found on google) but it looks like you sold for a profit sort of.

Lots of people have lots of different views on what you are allowed to do with a C&R
This in particular is what I was talking about. I mean I understand if you get a crate for dirt cheap, youre going to sell for a bit of profit, but not 3x the amount u paid.. thats just greed IMO. Guns can be expensive, but it is an important hobby so the savings should be passed on so that more ppl can have them.
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  #49  
Old 09-17-2013, 10:41 AM
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I don't think the crates are good deals, maybe before but now the pricing is just stupid

Classic for example:

$3,000 + ~$300+ shipping (freight shipping, big/heavy crate) = $3,300

For that you get 20 round receivers, a bayo but NO accessories/slings

$3,300/20 = $165 per rifle, normal common round receivers. It's cheaper to order them individually from the same place, and you get the accessories! wtf are they thinking?

Back when they had them for $2,500 + $300 = $2800/20 = $140 per rifle was better, but still too expensive I think (for this kind of an order)
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  #50  
Old 09-17-2013, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Jimja View Post
I don't think the crates are good deals, maybe before but now the pricing is just stupid

Classic for example:

$3,000 + ~$300+ shipping (freight shipping, big/heavy crate) = $3,300

For that you get 20 round receivers, a bayo but NO accessories/slings

$3,300/20 = $165 per rifle, normal common round receivers. It's cheaper to order them individually from the same place, and you get the accessories! wtf are they thinking?

Back when they had them for $2,500 + $300 = $2800/20 = $140 per rifle was better, but still too expensive I think (for this kind of an order)
Out in Illinois ive heard of crates going for ~$1400. Its not un common to find a Mosin at a gun show out there for less than 100.
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  #51  
Old 09-17-2013, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Baconrepublic View Post
its not that I cant afford it, I just know I can get it cheaper.
How much cheaper and how long are you willing to wait?

Aim, Classic Arms charges about 130.00, add the hand pick fee 10.00 plus 20.00 to ship. It costs me about 150.00 - 160.00 for a average late mod 91/30. Every new shipment over the last few months prices have increased about 10.00

3x price?... i think not. these days anything around 180 - 190 is a fair price. If you are not willing to pay that, keep your eyes open to the classified sections. While i do not make much when i sell one, i do not plan on taking a loss either. Just because i may have bought some years ago at 59.00 does not mean i am going to sell at 60.00. Market rates should be the given for pricing these rifles.

Keep in mind if you wait until jan 2014 you can now add 35.00 for DROS.
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  #52  
Old 09-17-2013, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Baconrepublic View Post
Out in Illinois ive heard of crates going for ~$1400. Its not un common to find a Mosin at a gun show out there for less than 100.
You have a long drive ahead of you. Do not price at what you may get in another state. Oh, I also heard that you cannot lie on the internet.
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  #53  
Old 09-17-2013, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by stevie View Post
How much cheaper and how long are you willing to wait?

Aim, Classic Arms charges about 130.00, add the hand pick fee 10.00 plus 20.00 to ship. It costs me about 150.00 - 160.00 for a average late mod 91/30. Every new shipment over the last few months prices have increased about 10.00

3x price?... i think not. these days anything around 180 - 190 is a fair price. If you are not willing to pay that, keep your eyes open to the classified sections. While i do not make much when i sell one, i do not plan on taking a loss either. Just because i may have bought some years ago at 59.00 does not mean i am going to sell at 60.00. Market rates should be the given for pricing these rifles.

Keep in mind if you wait until jan 2014 you can now add 35.00 for DROS.
Well last night a guy on here responded to my ad. He lives close to me and he has a nice Mosin for $150. We exchanged numbers and agreed to meet today at 12. Which is right now, and he hasnt responded to my txt messages I HATE flakes. How hard is it to say u changed ur mind or something...
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  #54  
Old 09-17-2013, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by stevie View Post
You have a long drive ahead of you. Do not price at what you may get in another state. Oh, I also heard that you cannot lie on the internet.
I lived in IL for 10 years and still go back once a year for vacation.
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  #55  
Old 09-17-2013, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Baconrepublic View Post
Well last night a guy on here responded to my ad. He lives close to me and he has a nice Mosin for $150. We exchanged numbers and agreed to meet today at 12. Which is right now, and he hasnt responded to my txt messages I HATE flakes. How hard is it to say u changed ur mind or something...
that is what happens when you chase a bargain. how much is your time worth ?
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  #56  
Old 09-17-2013, 11:19 AM
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why is price everything to some people that have the money to buy what they want. is it better to do without if it is not a bargain ? i also like a bargain but a lot of the time it turns into something other than a bargain. deal with nice people,pay a fair price and move on.
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  #57  
Old 09-17-2013, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by baka View Post
They are on sale at Big5 right now for $159

I bought one two weeks ago from a calguns member for $160 just south of LA

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  #58  
Old 09-17-2013, 12:01 PM
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that is what happens when you chase a bargain. how much is your time worth ?
Today in particular my time was extremely valuable, so im extra pissed. How inconsiderate can a grown man be?
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  #59  
Old 09-17-2013, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by NOTABIKER View Post
why is price everything to some people that have the money to buy what they want. is it better to do without if it is not a bargain ? i also like a bargain but a lot of the time it turns into something other than a bargain. deal with nice people,pay a fair price and move on.
Some people have a limited budget. I wish I had the funds to buy all types of guns, but kids and bills make that impossible. I see tons of ppl selling Mosins for $200, but if I can save $50 I will. Call it cheap.. I call it frugal.
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  #60  
Old 09-17-2013, 1:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Noonanda View Post
FUD
There is nothing that says as a C&R holder can not sell guns for a profit. It just says I can not be a business and then it defines what they consider a business. My livelyhood has never been based on how many guns I sell nor has a significate portion of my income been based on it. But if I wanted to sell my entire collection tomorrow I could as long as I logged the guns out of my bound book and it would still be legal
That is your interpretation. Other people have a different interpretation.

I believe you are allowed to sell your C&R guns for a profit, but I also believe that if you are purposely buying crates of guns to sell them for a profit you are abusing your C&R, the intention of which is to build your collection. At this point I have no opinion on buying a crate to cherry pick a gun for your collection.
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  #61  
Old 09-17-2013, 1:25 PM
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Good news. The Calgunner finally texted me back. Apparently he just woke up and still wants to meet later today. Hopefully ill be a proud Mosin owner by the end of the day. Now to start another search for ammo.
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  #62  
Old 09-17-2013, 7:35 PM
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This whole thread was for profit!

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...ight=expertish
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  #63  
Old 09-17-2013, 8:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Baconrepublic View Post
Some people have a limited budget. I wish I had the funds to buy all types of guns, but kids and bills make that impossible. I see tons of ppl selling Mosins for $200, but if I can save $50 I will. Call it cheap.. I call it frugal.
i painted my comment with a Broad brush i tend to do that sometimes..even though i do not have a lot of expendable gun money i do not mind paying a fair price for what i want. some are only interested if it is a steal.none of my business.
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  #64  
Old 09-17-2013, 8:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Baconrepublic View Post
Good news. The Calgunner finally texted me back. Apparently he just woke up and still wants to meet later today. Hopefully ill be a proud Mosin owner by the end of the day. Now to start another search for ammo.
Here you go

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/b...54&stk=1&kec=2
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  #65  
Old 09-17-2013, 8:28 PM
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Originally Posted by DannyInSoCal View Post
Wait until Dec when they will be $350.....
No way. You can buy a Swedish Mauser for not much more and the Mosin can't compete on any level with a Swede. I have owned both and I still have my Swede.
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  #66  
Old 09-18-2013, 1:02 AM
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  #67  
Old 09-18-2013, 4:51 AM
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No way. You can buy a Swedish Mauser for not much more and the Mosin can't compete on any level with a Swede. I have owned both and I still have my Swede.

yes the swed is a nice gun, but not everybody feels like you do. a lot of my mosins cost as much as a Swedish mauser or more. i prefer the mosin battle history. we mosin owners do not care about the small details. the mosen works every time at 200 yards it will hit and kill you.i like the effective simplicity of the Russian way of making guns.
i am not knocking the mauser, it is a very fine gun.
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  #68  
Old 09-18-2013, 3:51 PM
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Man I wish I had bought several Mosins when I bought mine. I paid 69.99 at Big 5 probably 10 years ago. I also bought a Turkish Mauser for 59.99 at the same time.
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  #69  
Old 09-18-2013, 4:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NapalmCheese View Post
I think the OP is actually referring to flipping mosins.

For instance, if you have a C&R, and you don't abide by the rules, you can buy lots of mosins for relatively little money and (illegally) turn around and sell them on calguns for significantly more than you paid for them. This is a no-no and punishable by law (since C&R holders aren't allowed to be in the business of selling guns).
This was your arguement which seems to be focused on the profit aspect, this one below is a different argument.

Quote:
I believe you are allowed to sell your C&R guns for a profit, but I also believe that if you are purposely buying crates of guns to sell them for a profit you are abusing your C&R, the intention of which is to build your collection. At this point I have no opinion on buying a crate to cherry pick a gun for your collection.
In your first statement you made no mention of Collection enhancement, but instead focused on the buy low sell high aspect. I agree with your second statement, but it is not the same as your first.

And lets discuss Collection enhancement. I purchased 5 Chinese Type 53 UFIXEMS hoping for a decent one to add to the collection. But out of the 5 I got none would have enhanced my collection, so I sold them (for a profit). I did not purchase them with the intent to sell all of them, but in the end thats what I did. Almost every gun I have ever sold I have made a profit, or at least broke even. Im not going to sell you a gun at a loss because you believe that because I paid $60 3 years ago that it should go for the same price now.

And just an FYI here is the ATF definition of "Engaged in a business" (bold text is from me)
Quote:
Q: What does “engaged in the business” mean?

The term “engaged in the business,” as applicable to a firearms dealer, is defined as a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms, but such term shall not include a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms.
[27 CFR 478.11]
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  #70  
Old 09-18-2013, 5:06 PM
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OP is a troll who is now banned - 100 posts in two weeks baiting people to start arguments. Bunch of accounts under different names, been banned few times before. Just an FYI.
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Old 09-18-2013, 5:40 PM
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Noonanda, what we have is a misunderstanding more than differing points of view.

Arguments one and two are the same argument, the second is more clearly worded with respect to my feelings on the subject. The first argument was about flipping guns. The second argument is about flipping guns. The second argument is simply better stated. In the first argument I never made any distinction between selling off your collection or simply selling guns that you bought with the intent to sell them for profit. I just say that it is wrong (and illegal) for a C&R holder to buy lots of guns and turn around and sell them on calguns. That I made no mention of intent was, apparently, a mistake. The second argument clarifies that idea.

I don't expect any C&R holder to sell a gun for less than the current market value simply because they have a C&R. I wouldn't do it and I wouldn't suggest anyone else do it either.

I am happy to more closely examine the "Engaged in the business" question.
Quote:
The term “engaged in the business,” as applicable to a firearms dealer, is defined as a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms
you spend time and effort to buy and sell guns
Quote:
as a regular course of trade or business
regularly
Quote:
with the principal objective of livelihood and profit
with the intention of making a profit
Quote:
through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms,
by buying and selling guns
Quote:
but such term shall not include a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby,
not including people people who occasionally sell guns to beef up their collection or as a hobby
Quote:
or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms.
[27 CFR 478.11]
or anyone that simply sells a portion of their collection. This whole section is open to interpretation by a judge/lawyer/anyone dealing with C&R guns and an 03 FFL.

I take this to mean that if you buy guns to sell guns you are firearms dealer, which is not in the purview of a C&R holder. If selling guns is incidental to your collecting guns you are not a firearms dealer. You can buy a crate of mosins because you feel a need for a crate of mosins in your collection. You can then sell that crate (one rifle at a time at market value or above if you can find a buyer) for whatever reason (you get bored with it, it takes up too much space, you decide you hate mosins). Buying that same crate of mosins because you want to make money by selling them one by one is a no-no. Buying a crate of mosins because you want to sell them (because you find selling stuff fun I guess...), and you feel that selling guns is a hobby in and of itself, seems to be permissible.

At any rate, this thread seems to be fully derailed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noonanda View Post
This was your arguement which seems to be focused on the profit aspect, this one below is a different argument.



In your first statement you made no mention of Collection enhancement, but instead focused on the buy low sell high aspect. I agree with your second statement, but it is not the same as your first.

And lets discuss Collection enhancement. I purchased 5 Chinese Type 53 UFIXEMS hoping for a decent one to add to the collection. But out of the 5 I got none would have enhanced my collection, so I sold them (for a profit). I did not purchase them with the intent to sell all of them, but in the end thats what I did. Almost every gun I have ever sold I have made a profit, or at least broke even. Im not going to sell you a gun at a loss because you believe that because I paid $60 3 years ago that it should go for the same price now.

And just an FYI here is the ATF definition of "Engaged in a business" (bold text is from me)
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  #72  
Old 09-18-2013, 8:39 PM
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Originally Posted by spb_la View Post
OP is a troll who is now banned - 100 posts in two weeks baiting people to start arguments. Bunch of accounts under different names, been banned few times before. Just an FYI.
Hes got two pages of comments. Thats a lot of hits.
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Old 09-19-2013, 5:09 AM
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I dont understand this unending thing of begrudging someone who makes a profit. There is a Russian SKS online for sale for $500 and the guy said straight off he paid nothing for it about 20 years ago and it appears pristine, too. Should I demand the original receipt for $79 and force him to accept that same price today? Really?

A guy buys a unseen 91/30 for $129 and discovers its rare and that he hit a minor jackpot (as we all hope and dont deny it!) Then he says, *^# im selling this thing! and puts it up for $250. Thats a crime?? Cmon you guys, seriously. Time to end this BS.
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  #74  
Old 09-20-2013, 12:11 PM
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$200 seems ok to me..I picked up my 1928 tula Hex from Ammo bros for $174.99....Pretty much in love with it as well....my first C&R..
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Old 09-20-2013, 2:45 PM
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I wish I bought 10,000 gallons of gasoline in 1992 so I could sell it today for a profit
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Old 09-21-2013, 3:52 AM
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10,000 gallons of gas bought in 1992 would be hazardous waste today. it would cost you a small fortune to get rid of. shelf life is not very long.
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Old 09-21-2013, 7:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kablemodem View Post
I was going to buy one of the AIM Mosins, but I looked around at the available ammo and all the inexpensive stuff seems to be either steel or bimetallic, which is not allowed at the ranges around here. Is there a source of cheap ammo that won't attract a magnet?
Define cheap.

Soft tipped "hunting" (white box) ammo is about the same as 30.06 or any other large game caliber. For the record, hunting large game with FMJ is legal in Alaska, Washington, Montana, and Idaho.
I've been told it's also legal in Wyoming. I've never hunted there so never bothered to check for sure. I probably just opened a can of worms but what the hell, eh?

Last edited by hakenlag; 09-21-2013 at 7:42 AM..
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Old 09-21-2013, 7:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesV View Post
I dont understand this unending thing of begrudging someone who makes a profit. There is a Russian SKS online for sale for $500 and the guy said straight off he paid nothing for it about 20 years ago and it appears pristine, too. Should I demand the original receipt for $79 and force him to accept that same price today? Really?

A guy buys a unseen 91/30 for $129 and discovers its rare and that he hit a minor jackpot (as we all hope and dont deny it!) Then he says, *^# im selling this thing! and puts it up for $250. Thats a crime?? Cmon you guys, seriously. Time to end this BS.
You do realize this is California?
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Old 09-21-2013, 9:46 AM
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Its all supply and demand. If someone wants to sell a MN at a high price let them, and if no one will buy then the price will go down. If someone wants to buy a MN at the higher prices then let them do it. Personally, I would try to get a profit off my rifles as well. Then again those chaps selling the t53 for $200 on the trader....
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Old 09-21-2013, 9:58 PM
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3 years ago I payed $76ea. for Tula 91/30's hand selected and shipped to my door.
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