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  #1  
Old 09-08-2013, 6:39 PM
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Default Artemis Defense Institute (ADI) Scenario-based VirTra Simulator Firearms Training

A shooting buddy impressed upon me to attend 3 hours of scenario-based Advanced Simulator Firearms Training with Artemis Defense Institute (ADI) in Lake Forest, Orange County, Southern California.

As an adjunct to regular firearms training including marksmanship, weapons manipulation, etc. this sort of training is indeed eye-opening!

We trained on the VirTra System V-300 Advanced Simulator which has five giant screens covering a 300 degree shooting envirnoment.

No live ammo is used. The weapons are Glock 22 and AR-15 but modified to use CO2 to replicate recoil and embedded lasers to mark as a simulated hit. Optionally, you can carry the Threat-Fire simulated hostile return fire system which zaps you with an electric shock and you KNOW you took a hit.

Our instructors for the day were Tim Stack of LAPD and Steven Lieberman who's also an owner and lawyer. They provided immensely helpful critique. The critique includes your positions since you're taped as well as where exactly your shots landed.

The scenarios are mostly based on real incidents and they definitely get your juices flowing.

I learnt many invaluable mini-lessons and can't wait to go back.

On a standalone basis this type of advanced simulator firearms training is invaluable.

KTLA (August 14, 2013): Virtual Gun Training: Saving Lives, Money

Orange County Register (February 25, 2013): Couple take firearms training into virtual world








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Last edited by ramzar; 03-02-2014 at 12:05 AM.. Reason: Typos + OC Register article
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  #2  
Old 09-08-2013, 7:00 PM
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Me and a buddy of mine went and did a trial run before they opened. It was a blast. We each got to go through a few different scenarios on the big machine. After each scenario Steven talked through the things we did well, and some things that we could have done better. I definitely want to go back again.
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Old 09-08-2013, 7:13 PM
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Thanks for the report. I'm curious though are all the "scenarios" the same. That is when in the "office shooter" do the bad guys ever come from different areas than the last player experienced? So is the virtual video always the same? When I watch the calgun YT video, one guy runs the scenario, the other calgunners watch. When its their turn they know exactly where the Bad Guys are coming from. Or does it change?

Did you run with the zap belt? If so how badly does it hurt.
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Old 09-08-2013, 7:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clee View Post
Thanks for the report. I'm curious though are all the "scenarios" the same. That is when in the "office shooter" do the bad guys ever come from different areas than the last player experienced? So is the virtual video always the same? When I watch the calgun YT video, one guy runs the scenario, the other calgunners watch. When its their turn they know exactly where the Bad Guys are coming from. Or does it change?
They have a battery of something like 65 different scenarios. I'll be asking more questions. I wanted to go in completely not knowing anything about it and frankly my expectations were low. I was pleasantly surprised with the effectiveness of the training.

They also have a Taser simulator and when my buddy used it and he was further than 15 feet it was not effective like in reality. Also, the simulator software will get enhancements like shooting through thin walls.

Here are some categories of scenarios based on real-life incidents:
  • Active Shooters
  • Ambushes
  • Court/jail
  • Disturbances
  • Domestic Violence
  • EDPs
  • High Risk Entries
  • Hostage Situations
  • Off-Duty
  • Skill Drills
  • Suicidal Subjects
  • Suspect Contacts
  • Suspicious Subjects
  • Traffic Stops
  • Vehicle Checkpoints
  • CQB
  • Patrolling
  • Suicide Bombers
  • Threat Recognition
  • Key Leader Engagements
  • “Green on Blue” incidents


Quote:
Originally Posted by Clee View Post
Did you run with the zap belt? If so how badly does it hurt.
They can adjust the electric jolt of the Threat-Fire device or you can choose not to wear it. The first time it felt like I was really hit.

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Last edited by ramzar; 03-02-2014 at 12:04 AM.. Reason: More scenario categories + Threat-Fire picture
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Old 09-09-2013, 10:13 AM
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Here are some of my thoughts as well as those of my shooting buddy who permitted me to include some of his thoughts...
  • Such training highlights some of the issues with square range training as well as reacting to an unknown scenario
  • If you see a wall use it to put your back against it
  • With partner don't crowd up to divide up suspect's attention
  • With partner just cover your sector unless he calls for you
  • Always scan and assess for more suspects
  • Stay on your threat until it's no longer a threat before scanning
  • Draw your pistol at the first sign of a threat like hand going underneath shirt
  • Always look at both hands on the suspects
  • If suspect doesn't go down remember the body armor rule and go for a head shot
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Old 09-11-2013, 11:48 AM
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Some more videos of the VirTra simulator training:






For more watch the videos on the VirTra YouTube Channel.
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Old 09-11-2013, 1:19 PM
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As far as I can tell the scenario's are pre-recorded and then they have different outcomes depending on how you react to it. So I assume that is how they simulate it.

So for example when the laser hits the target the video simulator switches to a video feed that shows the shooter going down. Is this always the case no matter where you hit your target or do they go as far to simulate shot location and its effects, like if you hit them in the stomach do they keep shooting. Or do they have video feeds where it takes multiple shots to take the target down or scenario's where you have to take a head shot to stop the shooter?

I assume all the scenarios are based on law enforcement or military?
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Old 09-11-2013, 1:25 PM
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Originally Posted by GM_77 View Post
As far as I can tell the scenario's are pre-recorded and then they have different outcomes depending on how you react to it. So I assume that is how they simulate it.

So for example when the laser hits the target the video simulator switches to a video feed that shows the shooter going down. Is this always the case no matter where you hit your target or do they go as far to simulate shot location and its effects, like if you hit them in the stomach do they keep shooting. Or do they have video feeds where it takes multiple shots to take the target down or scenario's where you have to take a head shot to stop the shooter?

I assume all the scenarios are based on law enforcement or military?
The system uses a branching logic and the location of the hits matter greatly. For instance, if the subject has body armor you need to take head shots to really take him/her down. If your hits are like on the arm, etc. you'll know it. Afterwards, in the AAR you'll see how you positioned yourself as well as exactly where your hits landed.

Some of the scenarios are CCW oriented like with a woman at an ATM.
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Old 09-12-2013, 9:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ramzar View Post
The system uses a branching logic and the location of the hits matter greatly. For instance, if the subject has body armor you need to take head shots to really take him/her down. If your hits are like on the arm, etc. you'll know it. Afterwards, in the AAR you'll see how you positioned yourself as well as exactly where your hits landed.

Some of the scenarios are CCW oriented like with a woman at an ATM.
Nice, that sounds pretty good I like the feedback at the end. In the curriculum you were exposed to are there some scenarios where you didn't have to draw the gun or something in place that keeps you grounded to the real world where you aren’t drawing down on everyone that reaches for something or approaches you?
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Old 09-12-2013, 9:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GM_77 View Post
In the curriculum you were exposed to are there some scenarios where you didn't have to draw the gun or something in place that keeps you grounded to the real world where you aren’t drawing down on everyone that reaches for something or approaches you?
Yes!

Knowing when to shoot, when not to, when to stop shooting and when to continue shooting.
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Old 09-12-2013, 11:25 AM
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Wow, sounds awesome man. I'll have to check it out.
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  #12  
Old 09-12-2013, 2:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toby Rocco View Post
You might wont to check out this product I found you can buy for home use as little as $ 450.00

Many popular laser handgun trainers don't have the recoil.That leads to a false sense of accuracy on second or third shots. You just don't develop the muscles or the grip to stay accurate. Laser adapted firearms are not the same as CO2 enhanced trainers. You need the recoil to develop the muscles and accuracy. Without the blowback it just isn't a complete training experience. You need to consider a full featured laser trainer like the BFR Laser Handgun Trainers that are specifically engineered to provide the full training experience as close to live ammo training as you can get. http://www.blrmachining.com/BFRLaserTrainer.html
Watch the video on YouTube.com //www.youtube.com/embed/2g9zMW-3xlo
I think you're missing the point of the VirTra System. It's a scenario-based interactive simulation. The weapons give you enough of the recoil feel as to force recoil management. The value is to see your reaction to real incidents within the safe confines of a 300 degree environment. The stress induced is real.

It's an adjunct to other training including but not restricted to: square range marksmanship, dry practice, laser trainers (I use SureStrike by Laser Ammo), competitive shooting, timed/scored practice from the draw, etc.
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Old 09-12-2013, 11:36 PM
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Wow...does this place opens in the evening? Do I need to make prior reservation, or just drop in?

Thinking about going there when my friends visiting Disneyland next year..
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Old 09-12-2013, 11:50 PM
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Wow...does this place opens in the evening? Do I need to make prior reservation, or just drop in?

Thinking about going there when my friends visiting Disneyland next year..
Contact them, explain your needs/wants and see what they can do for you. You need to make reservations.

They also have open sessions on Sundays from 2pm to 5pm for a moderate fee and walk-ins are welcome.

Artemis Defense Institute
11 Spectrum Point Drive, Lake Forest, CA 92630
Phone: (949) 305-6586
Fax: (949) 305-6628
Reservation: (949) 305-6612
Email: Artemis@ArtemisDefenseInstitute.com
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Last edited by ramzar; 09-13-2013 at 9:47 AM.. Reason: Sunday open sessions
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Old 09-13-2013, 12:01 PM
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Just wondering, are they the only facility with Virtua 300 open to civilian in CA?
I know college in Sac also has it, but only available to students.
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Old 09-13-2013, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lugiahua View Post
Just wondering, are they the only facility with Virtua 300 open to civilian in CA?
I know college in Sac also has it, but only available to students.
It's the only one I've heard about. Artemis opened up in March 2013 so I'm hoping we'll see more of these. It'd be great to have one in West L.A. Ammo prices are certainly helping them.

Other than law enforcement agencies there are various technical colleges that have the VirTra simulators. Case in point, that Moultrie Technical College in Georgia in one of the videos above.
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Old 09-15-2013, 8:19 AM
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CGSSA was having a monthly event there on the fourth Friday at a reduced price for a while. It might still be taking place, but it's been a while since I've seen the announcement.
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Old 09-15-2013, 8:33 AM
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CGSSA was having a monthly event there on the fourth Friday at a reduced price for a while. It might still be taking place, but it's been a while since I've seen the announcement.
yep - we had the inside track with them and had CG members in there before it even opened, but after 4 months of lackluster attendance and nothing but excuses from our membership, we stopped going b/c it was a waste of time to set up an event and have 6 people show up.

Artemis is a fantastic training tool. In addition to the real life scenarios, they also had actual LAPD instructors there to debrief us on police tactics and what we did right and wrong in the scenario. But... like I said, no one showed up.

If I can guarantee them 15 or more shooters, I'm sure they will make themselves available once again to CalGuns.
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Old 09-15-2013, 9:03 AM
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I have had a few opportunities to use the FAT system.

It has just a single giant screen.

It is interesting to go through a scenario and then watch 2,3 or 4 other people to through the scenario. What did they do differently? How did the operator change the scenario based upon the shooters action? How much movement did I have off the X? Was the movement timely? If you had to shoot, where did the shots go?

I want to try this place out.
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Old 09-16-2013, 10:59 AM
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Thanks for the heads up on Artemis, ramzar!

I was in the area last Saturday and decided to stop by for a Demo and Tour.

Got to do a couple demos using a Glock and the scenario demo did get my heart rate up a tad.

What's interesting about it is that you really need good situational awareness (surroundings, the target and what's behind it) to do well. I also had to actually scan and assess after taking down one bad guy, which was good, since another bad guy popped up from behind cover. But before I shot I had to make sure he had a gun.

So unlike the static range, there's actually so much info one has to take in and analyse before engaging.

I actually had a failure to fire during the scenario which was a good test of my training: I didn't even think, I heared a "click" and automatically tap, racked and re-engaged without pause - whew!


I definitely enjoyed the demo and will be back for some actually training. I think this is a great way to test your gun handling, malfunction clearing and marksmanship skills in a realistic scenario!
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  #21  
Old 09-16-2013, 12:10 PM
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Here's how you can stay up to date with what goes on at ADI for their Weekly Newsletter and various Promotions.

ADI Email Subscription

Hoping to make it out there for my second training session on the VirTra 300 late this month or early next.
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Old 09-20-2013, 9:29 AM
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I just finished a 30min. one-on-one session with Steven and had a great time. There's so much I've learned from the interactive scenarious that one cannot learn on the square range including:

- taking in as much information as you can from the surroundings and people so you can prepare appropriately

- being aware of your muzzle at all times since you have friendlies all over the place

- moving makes it harder to shoot you and the target; a single step could mean avoinding a bullet

- when scanning you better move your feet and look around - I got hit from behind and the electric shock ain't fun

- if possible, always have your back near a wall or move toward a wall after taking out a threat so you don't get blindsided by other threats.

- work through the pain and continue to engage the threat

That's just out of a 30min session with AARs after each scenario.

I highly recommend Artemis to anyone who is serious about protecting themselves and their loves ones. I can tell you that posibility of getting shocked if you get hit makes the experience more realistic.
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Old 09-20-2013, 9:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HK35 View Post
I just finished a 30min. one-on-one session with Steven and had a great time. There's so much I've learnd from the interactive scenarious that one cannot learn on the square range including:

- taking in as much information as you can from the surroudnings and people so you can prepare appropriately

- being aware of your muzzle at all times since you have friendlies all over the place

- moving makes it harder to shoot you and the target; a single step could mean avoinding a bullet

- when scanning you better move your feet and look around - I got hit from behind and the electric shock ain't fun

- if possible, always have your back near a wall or move toward a wall after taking out a threat so you don't get blindsided by other threats.

- work thorugh the pain and continue to engage the threat

That's just out of a 30min session with AARs after each scenario.

I highly recommend Artemis to anyone who is serious about protecting themselves and their loves ones. I can tell you that posibility of getting shocked if you get hit makes the experience more realistic.
Nice. The electric shock works!

So many mini-lessons that just doesn't occur to you when you're "living" these scenarios. The stress induced is real.
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Old 09-20-2013, 2:42 PM
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Did you just call them and book a session? Or do you need to become a member or something?
Think I will save some money and do at least an hour session next time in LA.
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Old 09-20-2013, 2:44 PM
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Did you just call them and book a session? Or do you need to become a member or something?
Think I will save some money and do at least an hour session next time in LA.
No membership. Call them up. Perhaps schedule a session after a tour/demo.
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Old 12-03-2013, 1:04 PM
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What's the difference between

Intermediate & Advanced | Experience II
and
One on One Sessions?

Are they different in the scenarios?
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Old 12-15-2013, 2:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lugiahua View Post
What's the difference between

Intermediate & Advanced | Experience II
and
One on One Sessions?

Are they different in the scenarios?
More prep time but best to call Artemis: (949) 305-6586
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Old 12-15-2013, 2:28 PM
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Teachers Learn Defense Tactics in Wake of School Shootings

KTLA, December 13, 2013

I've run through this simulation and it's eye-opening.
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Old 01-02-2014, 9:36 AM
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Some clips from shooters being zapped with the electric jolt of the Threat-Fire device. As you can see it gets your attention! Worst part is the lack of muzzle discipline.



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Old 02-07-2014, 1:51 AM
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I went to ADI yesterday for Advanced course, highly recommended.

Shooting under high stress is complete different than in training or competition. In school shooting scenario, I could see my hands shaking from mental pressure during tactical reloads, and tunnel vision sets in.
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Old 02-07-2014, 8:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lugiahua View Post
I went to ADI yesterday for Advanced course, highly recommended.

Shooting under high stress is complete different than in training or competition. In school shooting scenario, I could see my hands shaking from mental pressure during tactical reloads, and tunnel vision sets in.
Yup, all bets are off when one or more are shooting back at you specially if you wear the jolt pack (Threat-Fire)!!! Puts scanning and assessing into real world perspective. Yes, you better scan and asses or you will get shot/zapped.
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Old 02-07-2014, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HK35 View Post
Yup, all bets are off when one or more are shooting back at you specially if you wear the jolt pack (Threat-Fire)!!! Puts scanning and assessing into real world perspective. Yes, you better scan and asses or you will get shot/zapped.
I was zapped twice out of five scenarios, office shooting and street ambush
First one was due to not properly scaning (flanked by enemy), the second one was for not taking proper cover when available.
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Old 02-08-2014, 7:52 AM
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Default AAR: Artemis Defense Institute and Virtra 300 Simulator

Ok, here is my AAR on both Artemis and Virtra-300.
I wrote this for my non-shooter friends, so have to explain a lot of terms and concepts. But for short, I love the experience and will recommend for others to go!

-----
I first heard Artemis Defense Institute (ADI) and Virtra 300 tactical simulator from online forum Calguns and some friends in the police force. Virtra system is considered as one of the most advanced force-on-force simulator, on par with the Virtual Battle Space (VBS) used by the Army. Different from squad and platoon focused VBS, Virtra is more geared to individual combat skill and tactical decision making. Virtua is not just a “shooting” simulator, since the students can solve or deescalate the situation not by just shooting but by verbal communication or less than lethal options. Virtua supports simulation by using baton, OC/CN spray, Taser, or Rubber bullets.


There are several versions of Virtra system, and the more advanced versions use larger screen to better simulate the environment. The one I was trained this time is the most advanced model, namely Virtra 300. It has five large screens that surround trainees except for the rear where the control panels located. During the simulation, characters both friendly and hostile would interact with trainees from all directions; hence trainees must beware their surroundings, not just the front. This design teaches an important lesson of avoiding tunnel visions.

Another feature of Virtra is “Threat Fire” system. It’s a remote controlled electrocute device similar to a stun gun. When a trainee made tactically unsound decisions, he would be shocked by the device with 80,000 volts to simulate being hit by enemy weapon. Unsound decisions include but are not limited to failing to use cover, forget to scan, reload under fire and so forth. The shock was not particular painful to me, but from the videos I have seen people screaming on top of their lungs or rolling on the floor.

The firearms used in the simulation are real ones with minor modifications, such as eye-safe laser barrel and CO2 air magazine. The CO2 simulates the recoil and slide action on the firearms. Currently the available firearms for Virtra are Glocks(17,19,22) , Berretta M9/92, Sig 226, H&K USP, Taurus, and AR style rifle. Magazine can be set virtually from New York-7 to unlimited. I used California-10 setting for all scenarios except for the very last one, when I switched to standard 15 rounds for Glock22. The scenarios prove that magazine limitation laws in some states, such as California and New York, are great hindrance to self-defense, which I will explain later.

Everything happens in the scenarios were recorded by the system, including movements of trainee, interaction between trainees and virtual characters, the shots fired and their placements (so we know who shot who.) All are available for review after each simulation.



My instructor was Steven Lieberman, the owner of the company. I was the only students during the session, but there were other students entering the building when I left.

(continued in the following)
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Old 02-08-2014, 7:53 AM
Lugiahua Lugiahua is offline
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Default Part 2

Scenario 1: Practice at Shooting Range

After safety briefing and equipment familiarizing, we began the first scenario, which is a shooting range for me to practice the simulated firearms. The simulation was a flat outdoor shooting range with 15 standard IPSC steel popper targets, distanced from 10 to 25 yards. I engaged all targets once the buzzer sounded. I used 20 rounds in total. The scenario ends.


Scenario 2: Active Shooter in Office Building:

IT was the first “combat” simulation of the day. I played the role as a police officer responding to shots fired in a mortgage company. The dispatcher announced the shooter was armed with rifle and wore body armor. When I approached the front door, a female (A) clearly in panic fled from the building. She told me “They are still inside!” This indicated to me that there were more than one shooters inside the building. I told her to stay away and wait for help. As I entered the building, there were gun shots coming from the office area. I found a male (B) sitting on the floor, and leaning on the office barrier. He was clearly injured and was panic too. He had no visible weapons but with blood on his shirt, with hands covering abdomen. I told him to hold pressure on the wound and try to leave the building. At the moment, I saw a man (C) crawling from one of the doors, clearly had a gunshot wound on his thigh. He was begging for his life and followed by a man with armor vest and armed with a AK style rifle (Shooter 1). I immediately raised my handgun and fire at the head of Shooter 1 which was not covered by body armor, but my first two shots missed the target. Shooter 1 then executed victim C with one shot, and turned toward me to fire. My third shot hit his shoulder between armor panels; the fourth shot hit his head above Cervical C1, which immediate incapacitated him. I cursed myself for unable to save Victim C, I heard gunshots from my right, and felt pain over my body as Threat Fire system engaged me. I know that an enemy on my right has hit me. I turned right and saw Shooter 2 leaning out from a wall with an AR rifle and was shooting at me. I fired remaining 6 rounds at him and scored three hits. I didn’t realize my magazine was empty until I heard a click with two more unresponsive trigger pulls (means I pull trigger three more times before reload, as computer record shows later.) The scenario ends.



As Mr. Lieberman pointed out, I failed to scan the area after Shooter 1 was neutralized, thus Shooter 2 could flank and ambushed me from the side. He also commented that under stress most people, not matter how experienced, are often not able to realize their weapon was empty.



Scenario 3: Suicide by Police

My senior partner Officer (1) and I were on a food patrol in Tempe, Arizona during the day. Officer 1 spotted a homeless man with prior records (2), known as Crazy John, illegally wondering in a residential area. Officer (1) moved up to investigate and attempt to arrest Crazy John while I provide security. I spotted a white GMC pickup approaching us from the left. It stopped at about 25 yards, and a man (Shooter A) jumped off driver seat and immediate open fire at us without warning. Officer 1 was hit and unable to return fire. I shout “Shots fired!”, drew and fired at Shooter 1. I could see that my bullets impacted him multiple times as he reflectively bended down with pain, and with blood splatter on the truck. Yet, Shooter 1 was able to get back on his feet and hit me with his weapon before went down. Again I emptied my whole magazine within seconds, and had to reload to finish the fight. The scenario ends.



Mr. Lieberman then asked me if I know why I was hit, I answered:” I didn’t move from the X (killzone) as I should.” In the replay video, I saw myself shooting strait from the spot for the first seven rounds before seeking nearest cover, which was a large metal garbage cart. From the ballistic record I confirmed that my shots hit the Shooter 1 at least four times, including one shot at his heart. Yet, the man was high on PCP (Phencyclidine, commonly known as Angel Dust) hence was much more resilient to trauma. The only way to bring him down quickly was by an accurate shot at his head or his groin, obviously very difficult at 25 yard under stress against a slightly moving target.



Scenario 4: Domestic Violence

We received a complain of mutual fighting in a suburb L.A. residential area. Another officer and I were dispatched to the scene. As we pulled over our patrol car, I saw two young adults were fighting outside a residential home (Men A and B).One of them (B) immediately fled back to the house as Officer (1) and I approached on foot. Officer 1 questioned Man A about the fighting, A stated that he was playing with his brother Gwen (B), but Officer 1 pointed out that Man A had visible injuries with blood over his face and clothes. At this moment, three people appeared from the building, two women and a man in hood. (C, D, and E). Women C and D were uncooperative to the investigation, and insulted both Officer 1 and me. Suddenly Man B reappeared from the house with a large knife in his hand, and claimed “I am going to kill you!” Both Officer 1 and I draw our weapons at Man B, while Women C, D, and Man E try to wrestle with Man B. Man A grabbed Officer 1’s firearm in order to prevent him from using firearm on Man B, but was detained and cuffed immediately. Man B suddenly rushed toward Man A and Officer 1. At the moment I fired five shots at Man B, with one hit at his groin, another on his thigh. Man B dropped to the ground and was immobilized. Upon the gunshots, Women C and D fled for fear, but Man E turned and faced me, with hands inside his pockets. I ordered him to “Show me your hands!” Instead of obey my command, he drew a handgun and opened fire at me but missed. I fired five shots with one round hit his groin and incapacitated him. The scenario ends.



Mr. Lieberman said that I did well on this one, except I didn’t shot as well as I should against Man E (only scored one out of five shots), even after I held my front sight over five seconds on him.



Scenario 5: Armed Robbery at ATM

This was the only scenario in which I played the role of a private citizen with a Conceal Weapon Permit, which is very common throughout US except fora few states such as costal California, New York City, Washington D.C. and State of New Jersey. Unfortunately I am currently living in one of the few excepted area.

In the scenario I arrived at an outdoor ATM at night to withdraw cash. There was already a young female (1) currently operating the machine. I was waiting at about 7 yards away. I soon noticed a vehicle was approaching from a nearby lane. The vehicle stopped at about 25 yards, and a man (A) exited from the rear passenger seat, walking toward the ATM and Woman 1 in an aggressive manner. Man A turned toward me and said “****ing mind your own business.” I naturally reached out for my concealed weapon under shirt at this moment. Then Man A pulled out a large knife against Woman 1 at distance about 3 yards. I immediately drew and demanded Man A to surrender but was refused. Then I fired my weapon at Man A, three hits on torso and one at head. Man A dropped to the ground, presumably killed. I then moved left, turned toward the vehicle deadspace as I assume the driver (B) was in league with Man A. I ordered Driver B to show his hands, but he pulled out a handgun against me without a hit. I fired a few shots and stroke him down as well. The scenario ends.



Mr. Lieberman asked me why I moved left to engage the Driver B? I answered that I took a class on vehicle engagements in the past and understood the front of the vehicles is usually a deadspace for the drivers unless they leaned out from the vehicle to shoot, which would expose them as well.



Mr. Lieberman also suggested me to beware of the Woman 1, since we do not know her relation with the attackers. They could be complete strangers to each other, but also could be members of the same gang or crime group.



Scenario 6: Active Shooters in High School:

This was the last scenario of the session; I once again acted as a police officer. This time I was armed with standard 15 round magazines. We received a call of shots fired in Central High, with unknown numbers of attackers and casualties. My partner Officer 1 and I entered the building from a side door, passed through several wounded or fleeing students and faculties. We reached the front gate of the building and encountered an injured female students hiding behind a garbage can. She pointed out the shooters went to the hallway on the right side. Suddenly I saw a shooter (A) armed with an AK rifle, leaned out from a classroom to fire. We fired at each other simultaneously. I hit his rifle once, his torso twice, and his hip once. He was able to hit my partner Officer 1, causing minor wound. Thus Officer 1 had to stay behind. I performed a tactical reload and advance into the building alone. I then encountered a wounded female teacher who pointed out that shooters went into the library, I ordered her to press her wound and evacuate from the building. I crossed several more downed or fleeing students and reached the main hall of library. There was no one present at first, but then I saw several students backing out from a door with their hands raised. This indicated to me that shooters were coming from that direction. Suddenly one of the students tripped and other fled, I saw there was a female shooter (B) armed with a shotgun. I immediately fired four shots at her. My first two shots only made near misses, the third stroke her at shoulder, and the fourth hit her head and dropped her. But she managed to shot the student on the floor. As I quickly scan the surrounding, I spotted a third shooter (C) entering the library from my left. I fired several shots at him, but my first three were misses as he made a sudden stop from running to fire at me. His shots missed me and my fourth and fifth hit him. I performed another tactical reload as a student informed me that a fourth shooter barricade himself in a reading room with a hostage. I order the student to leave and moved up toward the room. When I enter the reading room, I saw a male shooter (D) using a female student as human shield. We were in less than seven yards apart, but I had no clear shot as he was shielding himself with the hostage. I then yelled at him “Dude, we can talk!” and it worked. As he tried to respond to my challenge, he exposed himself and gave me the opportunity. I fired one shot and stroke his forehead, which eliminated him and saved the hostage. I scanned the room for more threat, and verify if the hostage was injured. The scenario ends.


Mr. Lieberman believed that I did this scenario very well, although did not save the student from Shooter B in the library. My shots were above the average. He also praised me for executing several correct and speedily tactical reloads even under stress.
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Old 02-08-2014, 7:53 AM
Lugiahua Lugiahua is offline
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Default Part 3 and conclusion.

There are a few lessons I learned from this session:

1. It’s very hard not to look at target while shooting in high stress situation: We all were told to “look at the front sight.” But under high stress, the brain would want to look at the threat instead of the front sight, which results in loss of accuracy and potential loss of lives.
2. Don’t forget to seek cover if possible. I several times forgot to use covers when they were present. Proper cover could improve my odds against my opponents.
3. Using unfamiliar weapon systems could cost us greatly under stress. I usually used a Springfield XD 9mm handgun with Trijicon HD sights. During the training I was using a Glock 22 .40 handgun with factory U shape sight. While Glock and XD are very similar in design, I was not very accustomed to Glock’s factory sight and had problem to line up quickly for precision shooting. During the scenarios, there were two victims killed by shooters due to my errors. I might be able to save them if I was using my own handgun, or if I was more familiar with Glock and it’s sight.
4. 10-round magazine laws in California are impractical for self-defense purpose. As the scenarios showed, I fired more than ten rounds in every simulation except for the ATM one. In the third scenario, I fired over 12 shots against a single attacker. Had there be more than one attacker with body armor or high on drugs, I might not prevail over them with limited magazine capacity. Incidentally, NYPD statistics demonstrates that over 30% deadly encounters demands officers to fire more than ten shots.



In conclusion, I recommend Artemis Defense for anyone who wants to improve their performance and to take their defensive skill to a new level.
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Old 02-08-2014, 10:31 AM
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Wow, that sounds awesome!

I'd love to take classes there. Can I ask how much does Artemis charge? What is their fee structure? By the hour or by the scenario?

I can see the weapons platform unfamiliarity issue already. If the sight difference issue was enough to slow you down, I can imagine emergency reloading an AR when I'm not familiar with the platform. But, alas, not much chance Artemis would use AKs LOL.

I just promised myself if my wife ever start taking rifle classes with me, I'll use an AR...
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Old 02-08-2014, 11:08 AM
Lugiahua Lugiahua is offline
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They have several programs, here are the brochures.










The one I did was Artemis Experience 1 for 1.5 Hours. It allows two students at the same time, and The Art of the Pistol allows four. You can ask a friend to go with you to spread the cost.
All my friends chickened out upon hearing "being electrocuted"

I believe that they also have Sig, Beretta, and ARs.
What I was wondering was if you can bring your own handgun/AR (say you own a Glock22) and install the training barrel on site? From What I read in Virtra website, you simply need to change out the barrel for training sessions.

Last edited by Lugiahua; 02-08-2014 at 11:18 AM..
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Old 12-11-2014, 9:11 AM
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Trout_fear_me Trout_fear_me is offline
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I attended my second training session at Artemis this week and it was so valuable for me. The problem with shooting paper at a range is that things are static and you know exactly where the threat(s) are located. Sure, you can practice presentation and accuracy drills all day long.

The problem is that in the real world threats do not just stand in one position. Situations erupt into chaos with innocent bystanders moving into and out of your field of vision while location of the bad guys is unknown and those bad guys are actively trying to take you out. There is no way to simulate the real life stress of combat when you are just shooting paper.

That is where Artemis shines with their 100 degree, 180 degree, and 300 degree full screen simulators. The 300 degree simulator is the most realistic and you wear a Threat Fire unit that jolts you with an electric shock if you are hit by incoming fire. The Glock 22’s recoil after each shot with audible gunshots, and your magazine will empty just like in real life. Your adrenaline kicks into high gear as the situation unfolds before your eyes. You can interact with wounded innocents to gather intel on shooter(s), and move around the scenario’s boundaries to identify and take out threats. What I found interesting is that the scenarios are based upon actual events that have taken place.

Most important for me is the after action debriefing. The session is recorded along with the exact placement of all your shots (hits and misses). The narrative is played back and the instructor goes through your shots, and your reactions to the situation as the scenario played out. I made mental notes of where my performance was subpar, and was able to interact with the instructor to get specific practice drills to improve areas needing attention.

If you are serious about protecting yourself and those you love, you have to add Artemis to your training regime.
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Old 12-11-2014, 9:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundEye View Post
CGSSA was having a monthly event there on the fourth Friday at a reduced price for a while. It might still be taking place, but it's been a while since I've seen the announcement.
Yes, we USED to have regular Cal Guns nights there for about 6 months, however, due to lack of attendance, we had to cancel it. IF we get enough people consistently interested, we'd be happy to reinstate the event. It was a great event, and those who attended and took it seriously got a great deal out of it.
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Old 12-11-2014, 9:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lugiahua View Post
They have several programs, here are the brochures.










The one I did was Artemis Experience 1 for 1.5 Hours. It allows two students at the same time, and The Art of the Pistol allows four. You can ask a friend to go with you to spread the cost.
All my friends chickened out upon hearing "being electrocuted"

I believe that they also have Sig, Beretta, and ARs.
What I was wondering was if you can bring your own handgun/AR (say you own a Glock22) and install the training barrel on site? From What I read in Virtra website, you simply need to change out the barrel for training sessions.


NO. No real firearms are allowed (for obvious reasons). Last time I checked, they still only have Glocks and AR's available.
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