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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #41  
Old 09-07-2013, 9:48 AM
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If you do start explaining to other shooters and fence-sitters what is going on, their eyes just glaze over in disbelief.
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  #42  
Old 09-07-2013, 3:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Milsurp Collector View Post
They did before.




Ironically, the slogan for the first commercial was "Why make a legal gun illegal?". That is exactly the question the California Legislature should be asked: "Why are you making legal guns illegal?"
Well, TECHNICALLY they did the campaign. Literally they never did one. How many people actually remember seeing those? If you did, did you notice because you were already pissed off about the issue? Someone who is oblivious to the ban is just as likely to not even notice that commercial as they fast forward past it on their TIVO or walk to the bathroom during the commercial break.

You tend to just ignore things that you don't think pertain to you. Those meager slots that were placed over a MAJOR change in a law that turned legal citizens into felons was a sham and a travesty.

There are estimates that only a small percentage of "assault weapons" were ever registered. I estimate that a large percentage of these weren't registered because this was stealth legislation, as intended. It worked as intended. Now the government has a huge lever to use against those who would dare to own firearms.
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  #43  
Old 09-07-2013, 3:20 PM
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OMG, the absolute irony of the government advertising: "Why make a legal gun illegal?"
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  #44  
Old 09-07-2013, 4:11 PM
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I have been spreading awareness via trifolds, facebook posts, and emails re: SB374 (and 47 before it died).

ALL of the people I encountered (including those I met at the Victorville gun show) had no clue what sac-o-excremento was up to, or that this was even a real possibility.

Things I've noticed:
1.) That won't pass was the #1 reaction to these bills. They heard about SB249 dying last year, but had different reasons to explain it's death.
2.) So what? was the #2. I think in many ways, people saw what happened in 1989 and realized registration didn't have any teeth back then.

With 755 (pending) and 140 (chaptered), now registration has teeth. A lot of them. In SWAT gear. With guns drawn. These two bills have changed everything in terms of the tone behind registration. Before, it was just a piece of paper, and I have a gun. Gun beats paper. Now, it's a piece of paper linked to an ever-expanding list of disqualifying criteria and has the element of surprise; an asymmetrical gunfight initiated in surprise in it's worst case.

My guess here soon (probably next year) we'll see a bill that will tweek APPS to generate a real warrant. It seems only logical, especially since the word is spreading that we don't have to allow entry. That will be viewed as a "problem" that will need to be fixed. I'm betting we'll also see a push for more prohibiting criteria not unlike 755.
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  #45  
Old 09-08-2013, 5:38 AM
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Originally Posted by onethumb View Post
Isn't that the intent? Unaware gun owners that now have something that is classified as an 'assault rifle' take it to the range or the desert, assuming it is perfectly legal since they bought it in CA, then a stepped up contingent of LEO's looking specifically for illegal assault rifles scours those same areas, asking for registration. Gun owner says "Huh?" and LEO takes weapon. Then every one of them will be charged with a felony, get scared ****less, and then will plead to a lesser charge to avoid jail time. A few days after that, the DOJ will come knocking on their door to take the rest of their guns because they are now 'prohibited'.

They will end up confiscating at least half the guns in circulation in CA within a few years. That is the plan.

Bingo! It one reason i never shot my rifles in California..not because they are illegal, but because i have no time to play cops & robbers just so i can enjoy my hobby..better off just going to a free state and play...
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  #46  
Old 09-08-2013, 5:52 AM
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Originally Posted by G21Shooter View Post
A ****ing mess? That is a understatement. Most gun owners I know, including family members are completely oblivious to the new anti gun legislation.

All I can say is if this **** passes, there are going to be a lot of honest good people getting Felony AW violations.

Further more, the jails and prisons in California are packed full, they are even letting some violent offenders out. Now they are going to be packed liked ****ing sardine cans with good people who just don't keep up with laws.


We are screwed.
They might go to jail for a bit, but CA cares more about getting rid of their gun rights and voting rights. And they want to eliminate gun culture entirely. Things like gun safety courses will not be tolerated, mostly because they see only one way of dealing with guns -- no exposure at all.
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  #47  
Old 09-08-2013, 6:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Lost.monkey View Post

2.) So what? was the #2. I think in many ways, people saw what happened in 1989 and realized registration didn't have any teeth back then.

With 755 (pending) and 140 (chaptered), now registration has teeth. A lot of them. In SWAT gear. With guns drawn. These two bills have changed everything in terms of the tone behind registration. Before, it was just a piece of paper, and I have a gun. Gun beats paper. Now, it's a piece of paper linked to an ever-expanding list of disqualifying criteria and has the element of surprise; an asymmetrical gunfight initiated in surprise in it's worst case.

My guess here soon (probably next year) we'll see a bill that will tweek APPS to generate a real warrant. It seems only logical, especially since the word is spreading that we don't have to allow entry. That will be viewed as a "problem" that will need to be fixed. I'm betting we'll also see a push for more prohibiting criteria not unlike 755.
Exactly.
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  #48  
Old 09-08-2013, 7:01 AM
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www.regagun.org

The domain is still active, but not accessible. Do you think they are getting ready to bring it back up?

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  #49  
Old 09-08-2013, 9:02 AM
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Forget the unaware individuals. Its the ones that knew something was up, but chose to ignore it. I work with one guy who owns quite a few firearms. I put a list of all the proposed bills on his desk earlier this year. In his libtardness, the douche crumpled up the sheet and threw at me. He then exclaimed that no one was coming for our guns, and to quit being paranoid. I can't wait for when he goes to buy ammo, or gets popped with his unregisterd AR.
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  #50  
Old 09-08-2013, 9:37 AM
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The majority of my friends roll their eyes and laugh it off when i tell them about the new bills. "dont worry dude, no one is coming for your guns". Its so frusterating! Then, when I try and spread the word at my LGS, i get the "i dont think they will pass, im not worried". I want to scream WAKE UP!!
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  #51  
Old 09-08-2013, 9:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Dutch3 View Post
www.regagun.org

The domain is still active, but not accessible. Do you think they are getting ready to bring it back up?

Doubt it, that wasn't registered until August 2004 and is currently owned anonymously, hosted on a cheap shared server in PA. That doesn't seem like Cal DOJ behavior.

I'd guess they let the domain expire after it was no longer needed and somebody picked it up to try and make advertising cash out of the residual traffic.
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  #52  
Old 09-08-2013, 9:44 AM
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Originally Posted by desertjosh View Post
The majority of my friends roll their eyes and laugh it off when i tell them about the new bills. "dont worry dude, no one is coming for your guns". Its so frusterating! Then, when I try and spread the word at my LGS, i get the "i dont think they will pass, im not worried". I want to scream WAKE UP!!
Man up and tell them they are ****ing idiots! That is what I do.
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  #53  
Old 09-08-2013, 9:49 AM
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That's exactly what they said about the original CA AWB. Guess what? Cops do care, and if they catch you at a range with an unregistered AW, you're going to jail, and losing all of your firearms, permanently.

Exactly - you are going down, regardless if you have a wife and kids. They will not care. "They are just doing their job" enforcing BS laws etc. VS going after real criminals.
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  #54  
Old 09-08-2013, 5:18 PM
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I had a friend who just recently purchased a ar-15. While we were talking about gun stuff I mentioned some of the upcoming anti gun bills and asked that he joins the fight (be didn't know about any of them). These were the exact words from his mouth "I don't care" my jaw hit the floor! I explained what this meant with the guns he owns now and still I don't care answer came out.

This is what's hurting us the most. I know kommiefornia is a lost cause and ill help till I leave this state, but I just don't get why people are like that? Anyways I don't talk or hang out with him much anymore anyways.
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  #55  
Old 09-08-2013, 5:25 PM
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There will be many thousands who have no idea that there even is such a law. Many more who will misunderstand the law.

And many just won't comply.

Frankly, I think a lot of LEOs won't even care unless you are a Bad Guy.

But we probably should think about maybe coming up with a project to see whether the District Attorneys and sheriffs will enforce such blatantly asinine laws. It could help with the politics in the more rural communities and probably won't do any harm in the more urban areas.
It is an EZ bust. It will look good on their record getting a dangerous gun out of the hands of a new felon.
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  #56  
Old 09-08-2013, 5:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Capybara View Post
I was talking about that with my son today (if/when SB374 passes into law). I do think that a large contingent of LEOs will not actively enforce this, it will probably be used as a wobbler in many cases.

If you are a LEO and know that a law is blatantly unconsitutional, how can you enforce it?
Constitutional. Do you think they care? Most are thugs and goons. Lets see, bust you or loose their huge retirement package?
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  #57  
Old 09-08-2013, 7:39 PM
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Tin foil hat engaged...

Really? I dont see it. We lived through the 89 ban, and how many millions of honest gun owners were arrested? How many homes were raided and the rest of the guns taken?
Just my two-cents worth: this doesn't feel like the '89 ban. In fact, this mess doesn't feel like anything I've ever been through. There is a gritty determination at work here by the state's "forces of nature," such as DOJ expanding its agency with more firearms inspectors after landing the $24M surplus from the DROS fund. I don't have a good feeling about any of this. More so than anything before.
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  #58  
Old 09-08-2013, 8:51 PM
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Originally Posted by AceGirlsHusband View Post
Just my two-cents worth: this doesn't feel like the '89 ban. In fact, this mess doesn't feel like anything I've ever been through. There is a gritty determination at work here by the state's "forces of nature," such as DOJ expanding its agency with more firearms inspectors after landing the $24M surplus from the DROS fund. I don't have a good feeling about any of this. More so than anything before.
I have to agree. The agenda is no longer being disguised and there is much more momentum than in the past. There also does not seem to be any concern by our legislature about accountability, which is particularly worrisome.
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  #59  
Old 09-09-2013, 5:44 AM
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The operative question is "How many EBR owners just won't care?"

Once the bills relating to EBR's pass, California isn't going to get a single registration out of me. And no, the newly-minted "Assault Weapons" aren't going out of state, being destroyed, sold, etc.

The goddamn things are staying right where they are, right where they belong, and the State can pound salt. And feel free to let the State Bar Court know, too, if you want, so they can start disbarment proceedings in advance.

The line in the sand has been drawn, I'm not playing their game any more and frankly, I just don't care.

I have bad knees, so I won't be getting on them any time soon.
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  #60  
Old 09-09-2013, 7:35 AM
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Originally Posted by curvejunkie View Post
Tin foil hat engaged...

Really? I dont see it. We lived through the 89 ban, and how many millions of honest gun owners were arrested? How many homes were raided and the rest of the guns taken?

No, that is not the plan. The plan is to remove the weapons (all of them) from store shelves. At the same time, make it almost impossible to get ammo.

Then, start teaching the children how dangerous guns are, expelling and suspending 5 year olds from school for playing cowboys and bank robbers.

Fathers wont be able to get ammo to teach their children how to hunt, none will be shooting, and kids will fear guns.

15 years from now, those kids are voters.

2nd amendment is eliminated.

That is how they do it.
I think you are right. They are smart and patient. Actually, they are clever - not smart.
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  #61  
Old 09-09-2013, 7:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Panchira! View Post
I had a friend who just recently purchased a ar-15. While we were talking about gun stuff I mentioned some of the upcoming anti gun bills and asked that he joins the fight (be didn't know about any of them). These were the exact words from his mouth "I don't care" my jaw hit the floor! I explained what this meant with the guns he owns now and still I don't care answer came out.
I really dont wish getting arrested for innocent gun ownership on anyone, but if anyone is to get arrested for simple gun ownership I can only hope it is someone who voted for these clowns and then didnt care about the new laws
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  #62  
Old 09-09-2013, 7:48 AM
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OP here, jumping back in. An interesting discussion to say the least. I'm particularly interested (and concerned) that others are encountering similar indifference and ignorance.
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  #63  
Old 09-09-2013, 7:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Manolito View Post
If the legislators pass a law it is the moral responsibility of a LEO to enforce those laws. What you are asking is for a Police officer to enforce the law the way Obama and Holder do. Pick the ones you like and don't enforce the rest.

You can't have it both ways.
true... but I generally thing the exec branch doesn't have to enforce bad law. That is the difference; the criteria Holder and Obama use to decide what laws not to enforce is itself unethical / 'bad'. Congress should be able to sue them over it though and if the court goes with Congress that's two branches against one so the Exec is completed to comply.

I was taught that there were lines of defense for the public and the first was the police themselves. They could avoid making cases for bad law or the messed up situation. The second is the DA. They can refuse to file charges for bad laws. They you get into the court being the next line...
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Old 09-09-2013, 8:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Panchira! View Post
I had a friend who just recently purchased a ar-15. While we were talking about gun stuff I mentioned some of the upcoming anti gun bills and asked that he joins the fight (be didn't know about any of them). These were the exact words from his mouth "I don't care" my jaw hit the floor! I explained what this meant with the guns he owns now and still I don't care answer came out.

This is what's hurting us the most. I know kommiefornia is a lost cause and ill help till I leave this state, but I just don't get why people are like that? Anyways I don't talk or hang out with him much anymore anyways.
Is the friend a democrat? Could just be tribe loyalty.
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Old 09-09-2013, 8:29 AM
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Originally Posted by edwardm View Post
The operative question is "How many EBR owners just won't care?"

Once the bills relating to EBR's pass, California isn't going to get a single registration out of me. And no, the newly-minted "Assault Weapons" aren't going out of state, being destroyed, sold, etc.

The goddamn things are staying right where they are, right where they belong, and the State can pound salt. And feel free to let the State Bar Court know, too, if you want, so they can start disbarment proceedings in advance.

The line in the sand has been drawn, I'm not playing their game any more and frankly, I just don't care.

I have bad knees, so I won't be getting on them any time soon.
If most firearm owners in California shared your perspective, the law makers would realize very fast their laws are not going to work when they are not getting any registration forms in the mail or selling any ammo permits.

I have drawn my line in the sand as well and refuse to comply with any further laws. The bullet button and 10 round mag thing is really pushing it, but I cannot and will not accept anything more. As far as I am concerned the Second Amendment is the LAW OF THE LAND, and these CA politicians can get ****ed!!
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Old 09-09-2013, 8:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Manolito View Post
If the legislators pass a law it is the moral responsibility of a LEO to enforce those laws. What you are asking is for a Police officer to enforce the law the way Obama and Holder do. Pick the ones you like and don't enforce the rest.

You can't have it both ways.
That's pretty much the norm now. The lack of enforcement of illegal emigration as well as marijuana are great examples here in California.
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Old 09-09-2013, 9:49 AM
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Originally Posted by G21Shooter View Post
If most firearm owners in California shared your perspective, the law makers would realize very fast their laws are not going to work when they are not getting any registration forms in the mail or selling any ammo permits.

I have drawn my line in the sand as well and refuse to comply with any further laws. The bullet button and 10 round mag thing is really pushing it, but I cannot and will not accept anything more. As far as I am concerned the Second Amendment is the LAW OF THE LAND, and these CA politicians can get ****ed!!
Most firearms owners people prefer their creature comforts over all else. This fact is true for firearms owners and, more importantly, for the leadership of pro-2A organizations. They'll swear up and down all day about how they adore our founding principles, scream about "cold dead hands", and in the next breath either 1) reserve the UHaul for their move out of state, 2) tell us to rely on the morally corrupt 3rd branch of government (the courts) or 3) come asking for money so they can engage in 2), above.

The court and administrative wins in the past 7 years have been peripheral. The core infringements remain, and will remain, until political leadership feels some very real consequences. That means the voters intimidate them into stopping this nonsense, kick them out of office, or openly tell them "That's a neat new law. We're not going to follow it."

I realize I more or less stand alone. I never expected any different. I'm no leader and I'm no follower.
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Old 09-09-2013, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by edwardm View Post
"That's a neat new law. We're not going to follow it."
I agree with the sentiment, but wonder how long it would take to get the sheeple in line after they see one or two folks dragged off in cuffs for that unregistered baby-killing Mini-14.
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Old 09-09-2013, 10:29 AM
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I agree with the sentiment, but wonder how long it would take to get the sheeple in line after they see one or two folks dragged off in cuffs for that unregistered baby-killing Mini-14.
This is inherently the problem---mass confiscation could likely result in an armed confrontation. They want to avoid this, as it will only take one LEO overreaction and a iphone video posted to you tube to sway public opinion in the other direction.

These laws can and probably will serve to isolate individuals for confiscation, one at a time. They have time on their side, since there is NO chance of being removed from office. Each confiscation, quiet and non-news worthy, will chip away at our ability to support each other. If someone does get out of hand, it will be in a controlled environment, at night, in a homeowner's house where no one else can video what happens. It will be spun to the media as a 'crazed gun owner' and the sheep will be happy that the 'heroic' politicians got another crazy off the streets before they went Sandy Hook on the rest of the population.

What we need to be asking and debating is our strategy to prevent this. I fear we are on a slippery slope, but organized activity by even a small group can have powerful effects. Non-violent demonstration can bring positive attention if the message is well-thought out and well controlled. It is contrary to most gun owners' personalities--in general avoiding direct conflict is preferred because the consequences of escalation are life-changing. But we need to organize better and find alternate ways of getting the message out to the masses.

Last edited by onethumb; 09-09-2013 at 10:32 AM..
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Old 09-09-2013, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Nate74 View Post
I agree with the sentiment, but wonder how long it would take to get the sheeple in line after they see one or two folks dragged off in cuffs for that unregistered baby-killing Mini-14.
Let's make it 1000 people, and let's make sure that the "dragged off in cuffs" was for not filing a piece of paper with the State. Pound the message in and it will click with a few people. A few is all you need.

Hell, get 1000 residents of any county (preferably Sacramento) to show up at $corrupt_legislator_office and self-surrender themselves. Demand the CHP arrest all 1000 of them for failing to file a *piece of paper*.

A *piece of paper*. The idea is ridiculous, as well it should be. A key message to get across here would be that which is legal is not necessarily just or Constitutional.
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Old 09-09-2013, 10:52 AM
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edwardm edwardm is offline
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Originally Posted by onethumb View Post
This is inherently the problem---mass confiscation could likely result in an armed confrontation. They want to avoid this, as it will only take one LEO overreaction and a iphone video posted to you tube to sway public opinion in the other direction.

These laws can and probably will serve to isolate individuals for confiscation, one at a time. They have time on their side, since there is NO chance of being removed from office. Each confiscation, quiet and non-news worthy, will chip away at our ability to support each other. If someone does get out of hand, it will be in a controlled environment, at night, in a homeowner's house where no one else can video what happens. It will be spun to the media as a 'crazed gun owner' and the sheep will be happy that the 'heroic' politicians got another crazy off the streets before they went Sandy Hook on the rest of the population.

What we need to be asking and debating is our strategy to prevent this. I fear we are on a slippery slope, but organized activity by even a small group can have powerful effects. Non-violent demonstration can bring positive attention if the message is well-thought out and well controlled. It is contrary to most gun owners' personalities--in general avoiding direct conflict is preferred because the consequences of escalation are life-changing. But we need to organize better and find alternate ways of getting the message out to the masses.
I partly agree with this, except the idea about avoiding direct conflict. You create the scenario for direct conflict, because that becomes the tool for exposing the law for what it is - an exercise of naked power with no just basis.

Hence the 1000 people *demand* to be arrested. It took hundreds at lunch counters. Let it take thousands at legislator's offices, Sheriff's stations, etc.

Another twist on this for those with a lower tolerance for risk. Get 200 or 300 people to do the exact same 'self-surrender' at a Sheriff that is solidly pro-2A in this state. When the good Sheriff declines to do a damn thing about the law that will open an exploitable schism among LE and lawmakers. You're seeing a 'softer' version of that in Colorado right now, but Coloradans have a different mentality about many things. The laws there are enough of a wedge to push the issue. In California gun owners and direct action will need to be the wedge.
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Old 09-09-2013, 11:37 AM
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I don't know about the rest of you but I meet people all the time who never knew they had to register in 1989 or 1999 (example Bushmaster XM-15, Norinco MAK-90). What makes anyone think this time will be different? Sadly thousands will become felons overnight !
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Old 09-09-2013, 1:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Dutch3 View Post
www.regagun.org

The domain is still active, but not accessible. Do you think they are getting ready to bring it back up?

That site is going to get DDoS'd and/or maybe transferred away (domain unlocked). DDoS in 2001 was something more than trivial. DDoS in 2013 is far simpler, more accessible, and viewed (in certain circles) as an acceptable form of civil disobedience.

I don't expect them to resurrect it. That would be stupid. Wait. In that case, yes, I do expect them to resurrect it.
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