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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 09-06-2013, 3:11 PM
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Default How many EBR owners just won't know?

I've been chatting up guys at the range, at work and in my circle of friends who are shooters and trying to get them aware and involved regarding the pending change in the AW definition. I'm floored by how many have no idea what I'm talking about.

I guess it makes sense though. Prior to January, you could go into Turners and for about $600 purchased a CA legal BB AR. A lot of guys who were new to guns (and completely unaware of the 2A battle being waged here) had "cool" EBRs. Maybe they shoot them a lot, maybe none.

But I have to think there are thousands and thousands of EBR owners who will be completely unaware of the changes in the AW laws. Maybe they'll notice they're not on the shelves anymore, but I can't imagine the DOJ will be conducting a public awareness campaign to "help" gun owners stay informed and on the right side of the law.

What a f---ing mess this is going to be.
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Old 09-06-2013, 3:55 PM
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Isn't that the intent? Unaware gun owners that now have something that is classified as an 'assault rifle' take it to the range or the desert, assuming it is perfectly legal since they bought it in CA, then a stepped up contingent of LEO's looking specifically for illegal assault rifles scours those same areas, asking for registration. Gun owner says "Huh?" and LEO takes weapon. Then every one of them will be charged with a felony, get scared ****less, and then will plead to a lesser charge to avoid jail time. A few days after that, the DOJ will come knocking on their door to take the rest of their guns because they are now 'prohibited'.

They will end up confiscating at least half the guns in circulation in CA within a few years. That is the plan.

Last edited by onethumb; 09-06-2013 at 3:58 PM..
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Old 09-06-2013, 4:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Nate74 View Post
but I can't imagine the DOJ will be conducting a public awareness campaign to "help" gun owners stay informed and on the right side of the law.
They did before.




Ironically, the slogan for the first commercial was "Why make a legal gun illegal?". That is exactly the question the California Legislature should be asked: "Why are you making legal guns illegal?"
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Old 09-06-2013, 5:01 PM
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A ton of people purchased an SKS with a detachable AK style mag who them became criminals

More have been prosecuted for having an AW that they purchased before one of the California bans and never registered it as they were not versed on the law.

These new laws appear to do ZERO against criminals
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Old 09-06-2013, 5:20 PM
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I remember reading that less than 10% of people actually registered their 'AWs' the first time.

I meet old guys all the time that never bothered. They don't think its a big deal...

Not that I blame them, if you aren't paying attention, who would believe half the crap democrats come up with?
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Old 09-06-2013, 5:23 PM
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Lol, pre internet...

'Why make a legal gun illegal?'

Good question Dan Lungren.
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Old 09-06-2013, 5:33 PM
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There will be many thousands who have no idea that there even is such a law. Many more who will misunderstand the law.

And many just won't comply.

Frankly, I think a lot of LEOs won't even care unless you are a Bad Guy.

But we probably should think about maybe coming up with a project to see whether the District Attorneys and sheriffs will enforce such blatantly asinine laws. It could help with the politics in the more rural communities and probably won't do any harm in the more urban areas.
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Old 09-06-2013, 5:48 PM
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There will be many thousands who have no idea that there even is such a law. Many more who will misunderstand the law.

And many just won't comply.

Frankly, I think a lot of LEOs won't even care unless you are a Bad Guy.
That's exactly what they said about the original CA AWB. Guess what? Cops do care, and if they catch you at a range with an unregistered AW, you're going to jail, and losing all of your firearms, permanently.
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Old 09-06-2013, 5:52 PM
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A browning automatic rifle will be a illegal rifle under this law. How many thousands of hunters have those? People will have no idea because their rifles don't look like AKs or ARs.
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Old 09-06-2013, 5:52 PM
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I was talking about that with my son today (if/when SB374 passes into law). I do think that a large contingent of LEOs will not actively enforce this, it will probably be used as a wobbler in many cases.

If you are a LEO and know that a law is blatantly unconsitutional, how can you enforce it?
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  #11  
Old 09-06-2013, 6:19 PM
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If the legislators pass a law it is the moral responsibility of a LEO to enforce those laws. What you are asking is for a Police officer to enforce the law the way Obama and Holder do. Pick the ones you like and don't enforce the rest.

You can't have it both ways.
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Old 09-06-2013, 6:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Milsurp Collector View Post
They did before.

Snipping out those two stoopid DOJ youtube videos...

Ironically, the slogan for the first commercial was "Why make a legal gun illegal?". That is exactly the question the California Legislature should be asked: "Why are you making legal guns illegal?"

Okay, I'm not homophobic, but those public service announcements are *&^%ing gay.
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Old 09-06-2013, 6:27 PM
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There is absolutely NO way LEO will not enforce these laws.
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Old 09-06-2013, 6:40 PM
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I know a LEO in a county run by a sheriff that was at these hearings that said he would not enforce them.

That's one.
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Old 09-06-2013, 6:53 PM
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Unfortunately, in the counties that matter (SF, LA) no LEO will look the other way.
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  #16  
Old 09-06-2013, 7:55 PM
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[QUOTE=curtisfong;12249458]Unfortunately, in the counties that matter (SF, LA) no LEO will look the other way.[/QUOTE

You saying El Dorado or Del Norte counties don't matter?
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Old 09-06-2013, 8:00 PM
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Let's amend it to this: in the counties with the largest populations, no LEO will look the other way.
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  #18  
Old 09-06-2013, 8:06 PM
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Originally Posted by glocksmith View Post
I know a LEO in a county run by a sheriff that was at these hearings that said he would not enforce them.

That's one.
So your local sheriff says they will cut you loose?

Have you obtained such promises from DFW, CHP, CalDOJ, NPS, and local city police?

If not, your point is moot.
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  #19  
Old 09-06-2013, 8:16 PM
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So...just wondering, will this also affect retired LEO'S to own ar's...my understanding is they will no longer be allowed to keep their hi cap mags too.. So if citizens get screwed with all these unconstitutional restrictions, so do ALL LEO'S TOO when they retire/resign/discharged...
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Old 09-06-2013, 8:16 PM
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Leos will do there jobs, to only enforce the laws they agree with is a slippery slope-arrests will be made with the attitude of " let the Judge sort it out".They have jobs ,families and generous pensions to protect and they have a tough job to do.
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Old 09-06-2013, 8:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capybara View Post
If you are a LEO and know that a law is blatantly unconsitutional, how can you enforce it?
Well, It comes down to basics. Either burn someone, or get burned yourself and loose your job and benefits. It will be that simple. How many people here have F'd a customer ( if your customer facing) knowing that it is unethical but its corporate policy. Same deal with cops.
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Old 09-06-2013, 8:25 PM
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It's bad, I have a buddy who thinks "reactive" targets are good to go cause the LGS sells it despite my "paranoid firearms laws rhetoric". Your right it's gonna be bad.
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Old 09-06-2013, 8:47 PM
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This should be the main argument against this law. It's one that can resonate amongst liberal law makers. You have to equate this to the war on marijuana. The unintended consequences will be very similar between the two.
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Old 09-06-2013, 8:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manolito View Post
If the legislators pass a law it is the moral responsibility of a LEO to enforce those laws. What you are asking is for a Police officer to enforce the law the way Obama and Holder do. Pick the ones you like and don't enforce the rest.

You can't have it both ways.
Just like the S.S. its was just the law, and I was only obeying orders.Only mindless goosestepping idiots use that excuse. Never stop thinking freely! police pick and choose what LAW they want to enforce everyday. there would never be a warning given etc.
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Old 09-06-2013, 9:27 PM
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OK, can we please stop with LEOs have a tough job b.s.? Elite citizens do not have hard jobs. Talk to an infantryman to find someone with a tough job.

So, LEOs take an oath of office in CA:

I, do solemnly swear, that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States, and the Constitution of the State of California against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance, to the Constitution of the State Of California; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties, of the office of Police Officer of the City of xxxxx, acting to the best of my ability.

Now how do you keep your oath and honor be enforcing unconstitutional laws?
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Old 09-06-2013, 9:54 PM
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Originally Posted by totus44 View Post
OK, can we please stop with LEOs have a tough job b.s.? Elite citizens do not have hard jobs. Talk to an infantryman to find someone with a tough job.

So, LEOs take an oath of office in CA:

I, do solemnly swear, that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States, and the Constitution of the State of California against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance, to the Constitution of the State Of California; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties, of the office of Police Officer of the City of xxxxx, acting to the best of my ability.

Now how do you keep your oath and honor be enforcing unconstitutional laws?
Maybe they should make them swear on their grandma's grave or something, you know like little kids. Oaths don't mean anything, they're just for show. People swear on this or that, they break it anyway, happens all the time.

Another thing I was thinking about earlier and this seems a good place to mention it: those who follow orders are just as responsible as those who give them.

As for LEOs vs Soldiers. Soldiers get **** for pay compared to LEOs and a lousy retirement. How about we also compare health benefits? How about all the other perks like vacation time and other PTO? Then let's compare how many times LEOs get their legs blown off by an IED like the soldiers do.

There is no comparison. Don't get me wrong, I know the LEO job is tough, I know it's actually kind of ****ty because over time it makes you distrustful of people who aren't LEOs, and makes it difficult to form good relationships because your family can't relate to you.

Oh and then you have lawmakers like Feinstein basically telling LEOs not to enforce the law. Yeah what a mess. People blame you for not doing your job, people blame you for doing your job. The brass will hang you out to dry just to cover their own ***. Why would anyone want to be a LEO in this day and age?
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Old 09-06-2013, 10:43 PM
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I think these "laws" are intended to push gun owners to the raged edge and some (s hit) is gonna go down. At some point the frustration factor is gonna go off the chart.
Then the "anti's" are gonna blame all those crazy gun owners for being felons looking for a place happen. "See what those evil gun owners are capable of!".
Time is on their side and all they need to do is wait for the next gun related crime sensation to start screaming about protecting the children...again.
Meanwhile the court cases slog along, get delayed, get rescheduled, case gets slower and slower. The gun owning masses have little to cheer about and no victory in sight.
Gun owners need hope right now and more importantly they need results they can see. We're missing that right now.
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Old 09-06-2013, 11:28 PM
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Meanwhile the court cases slog along, get delayed, get rescheduled, case gets slower and slower. The gun owning masses have little to cheer about and no victory in sight.
I'm becoming concerned that by the time some of the current cases and future cases finally make it to SCOTUS that there will be so much of the leftist influence on the court you can count on these unconstitutional laws being upheld and blessed as "constitutional."

Well not in my eyes. SCOTUS is made up of people, and people are not infallible. SCOTUS has been known to make bad rulings in the past at various times in its history, one of the more recent ones where they said that the cross pollination of GM crops into non-GM crops would be a violation of patent rather than seeing the situation for what it really is: contamination.

The tide has turned in the leftists' favor, they have already outbred the rest of us, in this state they have that damned super majority, and I can already see it coming to other states as the abundance of children of leftist-influenced parents become voters. Every year, more and more. And not so many of us.

Just like the movie "Idiocracy" except with a political angle instead of an intelligence angle (though that plays in as well).
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Old 09-07-2013, 6:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onethumb View Post
Isn't that the intent? Unaware gun owners that now have something that is classified as an 'assault rifle' take it to the range or the desert, assuming it is perfectly legal since they bought it in CA, then a stepped up contingent of LEO's looking specifically for illegal assault rifles scours those same areas, asking for registration. Gun owner says "Huh?" and LEO takes weapon. Then every one of them will be charged with a felony, get scared ****less, and then will plead to a lesser charge to avoid jail time. A few days after that, the DOJ will come knocking on their door to take the rest of their guns because they are now 'prohibited'.

They will end up confiscating at least half the guns in circulation in CA within a few years. That is the plan.

Tin foil hat engaged...

Really? I dont see it. We lived through the 89 ban, and how many millions of honest gun owners were arrested? How many homes were raided and the rest of the guns taken?

No, that is not the plan. The plan is to remove the weapons (all of them) from store shelves. At the same time, make it almost impossible to get ammo.

Then, start teaching the children how dangerous guns are, expelling and suspending 5 year olds from school for playing cowboys and bank robbers.

Fathers wont be able to get ammo to teach their children how to hunt, none will be shooting, and kids will fear guns.

15 years from now, those kids are voters.

2nd amendment is eliminated.

That is how they do it.
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Old 09-07-2013, 6:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manolito View Post
If the legislators pass a law it is the moral responsibility of a LEO to enforce those laws. What you are asking is for a Police officer to enforce the law the way Obama and Holder do. Pick the ones you like and don't enforce the rest.

You can't have it both ways.
Our state government thinks you can. Criminalize gun owners and ban their firearms, but ignore the laws regarding illegal immigration and marijuana.
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Old 09-07-2013, 7:34 AM
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Tin foil hat engaged...

Really? I dont see it. We lived through the 89 ban, and how many millions of honest gun owners were arrested? How many homes were raided and the rest of the guns taken?

No, that is not the plan. The plan is to remove the weapons (all of them) from store shelves. At the same time, make it almost impossible to get ammo.

Then, start teaching the children how dangerous guns are, expelling and suspending 5 year olds from school for playing cowboys and bank robbers.

Fathers wont be able to get ammo to teach their children how to hunt, none will be shooting, and kids will fear guns.

15 years from now, those kids are voters.

2nd amendment is eliminated.

That is how they do it.
Yeap.

It's a culture war.

They want Democrat voters and this is how they intend to breed them.

Chase out the Republican gun-nut types, make it harder and harder for the ones who stay, and push a socialist philosophy of governance.
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Old 09-07-2013, 7:44 AM
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I know of a few folks who intentionally did not register during the first ban

I also know many more who are not "gun people", but have Mini-14's with collapsible stocks,flash hider, etc. , Mac 90, AR-15, Ingram Mac-10/11 (the real deal open bolt models), etc., who really believe since they bought those guns at a gun store that they were already "registered".

I have informed them that they are not, and that if caught with them it could be a huge headache legally. They just brush it off.

So...yes...there will be many more folks who will have no idea that something they own that was legal yesterday is all of a sudden illegal today.
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Old 09-07-2013, 7:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by totus44 View Post
OK, can we please stop with LEOs have a tough job b.s.? Elite citizens do not have hard jobs. Talk to an infantryman to find someone with a tough job.

So, LEOs take an oath of office in CA:

I, do solemnly swear, that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States, and the Constitution of the State of California against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance, to the Constitution of the State Of California; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties, of the office of Police Officer of the City of xxxxx, acting to the best of my ability.

Now how do you keep your oath and honor be enforcing unconstitutional laws?
Sorry but big fluffing deal. Members of the legislature in California take a virtually identical oath. (http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/.const/.article_20) Yee and DeLeon took the oath and then proceeded to ignore it. If the people who make the laws will not honor an oath there is no reason to believe that those who enforce the law will act any better.
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Last edited by scarville; 09-07-2013 at 10:38 AM.. Reason: tense error
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  #34  
Old 09-07-2013, 8:30 AM
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There was an interview on NPR yesterday with the Captain of the Foothills division in LA over the subject of "Predictive Policing," they are using computer models to generate color coded maps of where they'll increase police presence to try to deter crime....now during this interview, the Captain said not once, but twice that "these guys(police) love to arrest people" he said he has to drum into them that this is about preventing crime and not just arresting the first suspicious person they see.

I was literally mouth open when I heard this on the radio, this person in charge simply outright saying that his cops actively look for people to arrest and emotionally love doing it....it's not that I didn't know this to be true already, but to hear it said openly to the public was unnerving as far as just how accepted it's become that police are out to arrest people as their first priority rather than seeing it as protecting and serving their community first, and arresting people if it needs to happen.

Police will actively follow these new laws believe me.
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  #35  
Old 09-07-2013, 8:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Capybara View Post
If you are a LEO and know that a law is blatantly unconsitutional, how can you enforce it?

X1000. What Constitution?

Last edited by StuckInTheP.R.O.Ca; 09-07-2013 at 8:56 AM..
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  #36  
Old 09-07-2013, 8:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Guapo View Post
police pick and choose what LAW they want to enforce everyday..
Primarily with infractions and misdemeanors. Realistically, when the offense is a felony the only time an Officer will use his/her discretion is when the suspect is another LEO or a local politician. Unless you are a LEO I wouldn't count on them letting anything like this slide.
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Old 09-07-2013, 9:00 AM
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They did before.




Ironically, the slogan for the first commercial was "Why make a legal gun illegal?". That is exactly the question the California Legislature should be asked: "Why are you making legal guns illegal?"
Wow, I never saw either of those commercials until just now.
Yes, I was in the pro-2A movement back then and I was watching for public announcements, I never saw any in print or on TV.
In fact, one of the biggest problems and causes of failure to register with those new laws back then was nobody knew about them due to a lack of publicity.

I'll be interested to see how the public is going to be advised of the newest pending laws.
It's going to take more than one commercial or print ad to explain them all.
Let's see now, needed commercials before the cut-off dates:
- a commercial to explain that your Remington 742 / Browning BAR / etc is now the same as a military rifle and you must register it.
- a commercial to explain how a BB equipped semi is the same as a military rifle and you must register it.
- a commercial to explain how to register your semi rifles and when the cut-off date is.
- a commercial to explain that you need to be photographed, fingerprinted and background checked to obtain a ID card to buy ammo.
- a commercial to warn everyone that they can no longer take their kids or any other minors shooting because it is illegal to give them any ammo.
- a commercial to explain that your ten round mags are now illegal if they look scary (too long).
- a commercial to explain that the previously grandfathered over-ten -round mags must be destroyed, sold or surrendered to law enforcement.
- a commercial to explain how you can not sell in CA or pass your semi-rifle down to your kids.

There won't be any such commercials.
I don't see any funds sourced and allocated to a public awareness campaign in any of the bills, or any mention of public awareness announcements at all.
If they did make and show all these commercials often enough so that everyone sees them, it would be obvious how ridiculous these new laws are.
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  #38  
Old 09-07-2013, 9:17 AM
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A ****ing mess? That is a understatement. Most gun owners I know, including family members are completely oblivious to the new anti gun legislation.

All I can say is if this **** passes, there are going to be a lot of honest good people getting Felony AW violations.

Further more, the jails and prisons in California are packed full, they are even letting some violent offenders out. Now they are going to be packed liked ****ing sardine cans with good people who just don't keep up with laws.


We are screwed.

Last edited by G21Shooter; 09-07-2013 at 9:19 AM..
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Old 09-07-2013, 9:19 AM
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In all reality, outside of the boards here, I haven't heard ANYTHING ANYWHERE about the 2A changes taking effect anywhere else. I have ONE local shop here who actually knows anything about what is going on. I think the rest of them are either trying to hold onto their asses about what is happening, or just have their heads in the sand and waiting to be told what to do. VERY few people in my region are up to date on anything going on right now. Its really scary. As one guy, I try to do my best to educate people to the best of my ability and it really is more just leading them to the water that is calguns, or pointing them to california's links but its really difficult.
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Old 09-07-2013, 9:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G21Shooter View Post
A ****ing mess? That is a understatement. Most gun owners I know, including family members are completely oblivious to the new anti gun legislation.

All I can say is if this **** passes, there are going to be a lot of honest good people getting Felony AW violations.

Further more, the jails and prisons in California are packed full, they are even letting some violent offenders out. Now they are going to be packed liked ****ing sardine cans with good people who just don't keep up with laws.


We are screwed.
the power grabbers will make example out of some gun owners to scare the rest into submission...

other gun owners will be making plead deals, pay the fines, give up the guns and their right to own guns...

it's a win-win for power grabbers....
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