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  #1  
Old 09-03-2013, 1:29 PM
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Default My 1858 Rem new Army came in today

But the powder did not. *sigh* I could go make some but I will be patient.

I decided to get another 1858 before our law makers find some way to band the to the door service for BP Cap-n-ball weapons.

Now to go out and buy more cig rolling paper and make up some paper cartridges for easier reloading. Anyways, happy day is a day with BP. Need to find some conical bullets though.
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Old 09-03-2013, 2:43 PM
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Originally Posted by meaty-btz View Post
But the powder did not. *sigh* I could go make some but I will be patient.
Would you be opposed to grinding some FF into FFF?
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Old 09-03-2013, 4:04 PM
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5.5" barrel or 8" barrel? Or maybe 12"?

I plan on picking up a 5.5" barrel 1858 some time next year.
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Old 09-03-2013, 4:12 PM
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Old 09-03-2013, 4:21 PM
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Conicals that will work are kind of hard to find. Lee does make a nice mold with a rebated base that'll work but most people just use a .454 roundball and that's that.
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Old 09-03-2013, 4:49 PM
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Cabelas says my 5-1/2" will be here next week Midway wanted almost $100 more for the same gun after getting restocked

Prices creeping up already?
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  #7  
Old 09-03-2013, 5:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meaty-btz View Post
But the powder did not. *sigh* I could go make some but I will be patient.
Might be able to help where you located?
Try Track of the Wolf or Dixie for the conicals.
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Old 09-03-2013, 7:31 PM
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@Tom: I am in Nor Cal, Glenn County, the I-5 Neighbor to Butte. Though what would be really awesome would be the HBWC that I hear are like unicorns and are rare as hell but shoot the most accurately of all the bullet types available.


Ok, Pics you want, pics you get.





You know what I love about the 1858 RNA? It fits my man sized hands! That's what. Just to steam ya'll I called them while the 100% free shipping was available and finagled a free shipping, even free Hazmat. Always CALL!! Cabela's.. yeah.
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Old 09-04-2013, 8:41 AM
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Too bad I'm in San Diego.
Now what you should do is get it converted to 41 Colt and shoot heelbase cartridges in it.

http://cartridgeconversion.com/SERVICES.php
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Old 09-04-2013, 9:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meaty-btz View Post
@Tom: I am in Nor Cal, Glenn County, the I-5 Neighbor to Butte. Though what would be really awesome would be the HBWC that I hear are like unicorns and are rare as hell but shoot the most accurately of all the bullet types available.


Ok, Pics you want, pics you get.





You know what I love about the 1858 RNA? It fits my man sized hands! That's what. Just to steam ya'll I called them while the 100% free shipping was available and finagled a free shipping, even free Hazmat. Always CALL!! Cabela's.. yeah.
Well done mate!
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  #11  
Old 09-04-2013, 11:55 AM
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I am getting one for my B-day.

Is there a good place to get powder and caps etc..? I want something that will make a lot of smoke, noise and stink.
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  #12  
Old 09-04-2013, 12:07 PM
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Caps are on the extremely rare side right now. You can mix your own cap compound pretty easily if your a chemistry buff and have a tap-o-cap. Right now there isnt much supply for caps anywhere.

Another option is ring-caps, they work well enough. I've used them. They are also pretty corrosive.

As for powder, there are some places in so-cal that stock Real Black Powder, substitutes have fair availability. Limit 1# for real BP however.
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Old 09-04-2013, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom-ADC View Post
Too bad I'm in San Diego.
Now what you should do is get it converted to 41 Colt and shoot heelbase cartridges in it.

http://cartridgeconversion.com/SERVICES.php
its kinda cool leaving it stock... your doing reloading... just right in the gun.
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Old 09-04-2013, 4:59 PM
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I've been looking at an Uberti 1862 'Pocket Navy' Slightly hard to come by, all the big sites are sold out, but still doable.



I really like the case color/hardening and the smaller profile, but I am still looking around.
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Old 09-05-2013, 6:45 AM
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I've been thinking of a 1849 Colt Pocket by Uberti be cool with a 32 conversion kit.
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Old 09-05-2013, 8:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom-ADC View Post
I've been thinking of a 1849 Colt Pocket by Uberti be cool with a 32 conversion kit.
How does that work? Do you just buy the cylinder?

Obviously that changes the status of the firearm, does that matter legally speaking? I mean for someone that is not prohibited from owning a title I firearm.

Are the cartridge cylinders controlled in any way?
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Old 09-05-2013, 8:50 AM
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I have a short-barreled 1858 Remington in .44 and a Rogers & Spencer .44. Love them both!

I used to own a LeMat, until I realized shooting a LeMat is much cooler than owning one.
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Old 09-05-2013, 9:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meaty-btz View Post
But the powder did not. *sigh* I could go make some but I will be patient.

I decided to get another 1858 before our law makers find some way to band the to the door service for BP Cap-n-ball weapons.

Now to go out and buy more cig rolling paper and make up some paper cartridges for easier reloading. Anyways, happy day is a day with BP. Need to find some conical bullets though.
Got a place to shoot it once the powder is in?
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  #19  
Old 09-05-2013, 9:54 AM
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The clay pits
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Old 09-05-2013, 9:54 AM
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The clay pits
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  #21  
Old 09-05-2013, 10:29 AM
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I have a friend that works at Berretta, so I can get 30% off.

But no Pocket Navies. I think I am going to get the full size. They do make a pocket gun, but I'm not sure about that one.
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Old 09-05-2013, 4:57 PM
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The clay pits
When do you plan to be there next? I also have a Pietta 1858 and plenty of caps and powder.

It could be Smokefest 2013.

Oh, and .454 balls. I have lots of balls.
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Old 09-05-2013, 5:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SanPedroShooter View Post
How does that work? Do you just buy the cylinder?

Obviously that changes the status of the firearm, does that matter legally speaking? I mean for someone that is not prohibited from owning a title I firearm.

Are the cartridge cylinders controlled in any way?
No as long as you just use the cylinder and don't cut loading gates or alter the revolver itself. You can't ship it with conversion cylinder installed or ship them together. It's still a cap & ball revolver.
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Old 09-05-2013, 7:16 PM
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Originally Posted by SanPedroShooter View Post
I have a friend that works at Berretta, so I can get 30% off.

But no Pocket Navies. I think I am going to get the full size. They do make a pocket gun, but I'm not sure about that one.
Bigger gun means bigger cylinder means more black powder in cylinder means bigger boom and more smoke and sulfur smell.

You can pick up real black powder at Martin B Rettings. I think that's the closest source to San Pedro. If you shoot at Angeles Shooting Range, they sell real black powder in the office, along with caps and balls.

OP, range report when you shoot that, please.
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Old 09-05-2013, 8:53 PM
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Too bad I'm in San Diego.
Now what you should do is get it converted to 41 Colt and shoot heelbase cartridges in it.

http://cartridgeconversion.com/SERVICES.php
You can convert it to .45 Colt or .45 ACP. I don't think you can convert it to .41, barrel diameter and all.

As for having someone else do it - it took me about an hour with a dremel. It's that easy. You need a dremel, a couple of 60 grip sanding drums (one is enough, actually), a 240 grit sanding drum (or whatever else you want to use for polishing), a vise, some masking tape, and something to cold blue the loading gate (I used Brownells Dircopan T4 Creme and then 2 coats of Oxpho Blue Creme. It matched the original bluing on my Cimarron 1858 well). Oh, and I used a Kirst Konverter.

You don't have to do the full conversion either, you can just replace the cylinder (Kirst, Howard, and a third company, I forgot its name, make these). But then you have to change the cylinder to reload. I went with a full gated conversion.
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Old 09-05-2013, 8:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SanPedroShooter View Post
How does that work? Do you just buy the cylinder?

Obviously that changes the status of the firearm, does that matter legally speaking? I mean for someone that is not prohibited from owning a title I firearm.

Are the cartridge cylinders controlled in any way?
You can either do the conversion by just replacing the cylinder (the easiest way, no alterations to the gun are necessary. However, you reload by taking out the cylinder, reloading it, and putting it back. Of course, you can have multiple cylinders, but they're expensive) or by cutting the loading gate in the frame and getting a conversion with the loading gate. In the latter case, it's also a good idea to replace the extractor with the one suited for cartridges.

Legally, you're just making your own firearm, which is legal. Since the revolver already has a long enough barrel and OAL, and it's single-action, it's roster-exempt, so no issues there.
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  #27  
Old 09-05-2013, 9:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nick View Post
You can convert it to .45 Colt or .45 ACP. I don't think you can convert it to .41, barrel diameter and all.

As for having someone else do it - it took me about an hour with a dremel. It's that easy. You need a dremel, a couple of 60 grip sanding drums (one is enough, actually), a 240 grit sanding drum (or whatever else you want to use for polishing), a vise, some masking tape, and something to cold blue the loading gate (I used Brownells Dircopan T4 Creme and then 2 coats of Oxpho Blue Creme. It matched the original bluing on my Cimarron 1858 well). Oh, and I used a Kirst Konverter.

You don't have to do the full conversion either, you can just replace the cylinder (Kirst, Howard, and a third company, I forgot its name, make these). But then you have to change the cylinder to reload. I went with a full gated conversion.
Nick, when he said HBWC I was thinking 38 special wad cutters, hence the 41 Colt ref. Looking back did he ever say what cal he bought it in?
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Old 09-05-2013, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beetle Bailey View Post
Bigger gun means bigger cylinder means more black powder in cylinder means bigger boom and more smoke and sulfur smell.

You can pick up real black powder at Martin B Rettings. I think that's the closest source to San Pedro. If you shoot at Angeles Shooting Range, they sell real black powder in the office, along with caps and balls.

OP, range report when you shoot that, please.
That settles it. Thanks for the tip.
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Old 09-06-2013, 9:30 AM
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I've found ordering black powder online to be much cheaper. Places like Back Creek or Jack's will ship 25lbs to you for $300. I've ordered from both places in the past, and I've received shipments within 2 weeks (UPS ground only). Note that while Back Creek still has the wingless musket caps on their site, they are actually out of stock and cannot get anymore. RWS either does not produce them anymore or pulled them from this market.

Jacks:
http://www.jackspowderkeg.com/#!page2/cjg9

Back Creek:
http://www.blackpowderva.com/
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Old 09-06-2013, 12:41 PM
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Nick, when he said HBWC I was thinking 38 special wad cutters, hence the 41 Colt ref. Looking back did he ever say what cal he bought it in?
What's the diameter of a .41 mag bullet? I thought, the .36 1858s are generally converted to 38 special, although the bore is a bit too large for it. Wouldn't .41 mag be too tight though?

I'm thinking of buying a .36 1858 and converting it, to complement the .45 Colt 12" revolver and carbine I already have.
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  #31  
Old 09-06-2013, 1:03 PM
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What's the diameter of a .41 mag bullet? I thought, the .36 1858s are generally converted to 38 special, although the bore is a bit too large for it. Wouldn't .41 mag be too tight though?

I'm thinking of buying a .36 1858 and converting it, to complement the .45 Colt 12" revolver and carbine I already have.
Nick not 41 MAG but 41 Colt big difference. A .36 C&B is .375 in dia a 38 Special is .357 thats why they say use HBWC.
41 LC is .386 in dia uses a heel based bullet like a 22 LR.
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Old 09-06-2013, 1:10 PM
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This is from a guy that does conversions.

"41 Colt Conversion
Tired of the hassles associated with the "38" caliber navy Cylinders?
Want more ACCURACY?
How about more POWER?

Here is the solution:

I ream the chambers and throats of your cylinder to accept 41 Colt INSIDE LUBED cartridges. The nominal bore size of the 36 caliber cap and ball revolvers is close enough to the .386 size of the inside lubed 41 Colt as long as you use soft cast bullets.

This is still a handload proposition as the factories have not produced this caliber since the 70's or 80's. I provide a tutorial showing how to fireform cases cheaply from 38 Special cases and I sell the correct bullet sizer and bullet Moulds.

No Heel Base bullet hassles
No Hollow Base bullets hassles

For more info: http://cartridgeconversion.com/Home_Page.php
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Old 09-06-2013, 6:04 PM
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Navy or Pocket Navy?

I can get 30% off the standard Navy, but I really like the pocket Navy.

Anyone have an opinion? The only difference is 2 1/2 inches on the barrel and one less shot.
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Old 09-06-2013, 6:45 PM
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.44 cal. There was a mold produced, i've seen the bullets once, long ago. .454" HBWC lead bullets for muzzle loading.

Rare as unicorns. I know of no one produce a mold today. They are lighter and work really well and seal well because of the hollow base. If the wife is feeling better we will take it out tomorrow morning. Need to finish zeroing the AK-74 at 100Y. Assuming my Kyhber pass style scope mount holds.
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Old 09-06-2013, 7:37 PM
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Navy or Pocket Navy?

I can get 30% off the standard Navy, but I really like the pocket Navy.

Anyone have an opinion? The only difference is 2 1/2 inches on the barrel and one less shot.
I've never shot a pocket navy so I cannot give a useful opinion on it. However, the pocket navy frame is actually smaller than the regular navy. Notice how the cylinder on the pocket navy has a step in it and that the front of the cylinder has a larger diameter than the rear? On the regular navy (1851 or 1861) the cylinder has the same diameter front and back.

The reason for that is the pocket sized frame was designed to hold a cylinder with 5 shots of 31 caliber (like the 1849 pocket and 1849 Wells Fargo). Making that frame hold 5 shots of 36 caliber means making the front of the cylinder larger to hold the larger bullets. Hence the step.

How big of a deal the difference in frame size it, I cannot say. Again, I've never shot any of the pocket guns. But technically, there is a difference.
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Old 09-06-2013, 8:30 PM
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When do you plan to be there next? I also have a Pietta 1858 and plenty of caps and powder.

It could be Smokefest 2013.

Oh, and .454 balls. I have lots of balls.
My balls are heavy, like lead

The plan was tomorrow morning, but the wife isn't feeling well. We will see how she feels in the morning. I am a bit concerned actually. If not tomorrow then early sunday.
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Old 09-06-2013, 8:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Beetle Bailey View Post
I've never shot a pocket navy so I cannot give a useful opinion on it. However, the pocket navy frame is actually smaller than the regular navy. Notice how the cylinder on the pocket navy has a step in it and that the front of the cylinder has a larger diameter than the rear? On the regular navy (1851 or 1861) the cylinder has the same diameter front and back.

The reason for that is the pocket sized frame was designed to hold a cylinder with 5 shots of 31 caliber (like the 1849 pocket and 1849 Wells Fargo). Making that frame hold 5 shots of 36 caliber means making the front of the cylinder larger to hold the larger bullets. Hence the step.

How big of a deal the difference in frame size it, I cannot say. Again, I've never shot any of the pocket guns. But technically, there is a difference.
Hmmm, yes I need to do some more homework.
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  #38  
Old 09-07-2013, 6:27 AM
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Full size 1861 Colt on top and a 1862 Police on bottom.
BTW both are .36 Cal.
NOTE: The 1862 is a Uberti, you'll notice Pietta also offers one but its a 6 shot? How can that be? Because its really a full size with a short barrel and fluted cylinder, nice but not a true size 1862.

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Last edited by Tom-ADC; 09-07-2013 at 7:08 AM..
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Old 09-07-2013, 7:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom-ADC View Post
Full size 1861 Colt on top and a 1862 Police on bottom.
BTW both are .36 Cal.

I think I am going to get the full size on the assumption that it will be easier to use and shoot for a noob.

Plus the discount and availability. I can use the extra 90 bucks to get supplies.

Which one do you like better?
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Old 09-07-2013, 7:52 AM
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Although not historically correct if I were looking for a Colt I'd get the Pietta 1862 but if a Remington I'd get the 1858 with a 5.5 inch barrel also a Pietta.
The .44 cal are easier to shoot IMO but the .36 aren't all that bad, also get a steel frame just in case you want a conversion cylinder later.
The cylinder wedge on new Piettas can be hard to remove the first time but after that not a problem

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shoot...3Bcat104503680
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Last edited by Tom-ADC; 09-07-2013 at 7:56 AM..
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