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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #41  
Old 09-03-2013, 7:17 AM
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Honestly, I'm hoping for some natural cataclysmic event where all of these libtards can have front row seats to the temporary breakdown of society and watch their homes being ransacked by their gun-hating neighbors/constituents for food, water, and anything of value to barter. I never thought I'd look forward to a big quake, but I am (with no loss of life). I promise not to use my guns to defend the anti's lives and property. Maybe then they'd realize what a mistake they've been making.

Last edited by 12yak; 09-03-2013 at 7:53 AM..
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  #42  
Old 09-03-2013, 8:28 AM
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No. They will not stop. They can only be stopped in court.
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  #43  
Old 09-03-2013, 8:49 AM
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Originally Posted by G21Shooter View Post
Let's say all the current legislation passes and becomes law, do you think the Anti's here in CA will take a break from making gun laws?

Maybe relax for a while and decide the laws are good enough for them?

The question is, how far honestly do you think the anti gunners in this state would go with their laws if they had their way, realistically?
they will stop WHEN they have complete control of the people...
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  #44  
Old 09-03-2013, 8:51 AM
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Originally Posted by kygen View Post
if you can use it to rise up, they will take it from you
This is their plan. once there is nothing you can use to fight their hired thugs with, they will be happy.
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You seek escape from pain. We seek the achievement of happiness. You exist for the sake of avoiding punishment. We exist for the sake of earning rewards. Threats will not make us function; fear is not our incentive. It is not death we wish to avoid, but life that we wish to live.
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  #45  
Old 09-03-2013, 9:23 AM
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When will they stop?.....when the people who believe in freedom actually start paying attention to the issues, vote out the anti's, vote in pro freedom people and we start to turn the tide.

I think it will get worse before it gets better through litigation and courts although im not one to buy into the complete doomsday of the state.
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  #46  
Old 09-03-2013, 9:32 AM
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It may end with the outlawing of finger pointing... but I'm not quite sure.
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  #47  
Old 09-03-2013, 9:58 AM
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It ends where when the rights they are trying to take away from us (2A) is forcibly provoked being exercised.
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  #48  
Old 09-03-2013, 10:56 AM
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It stops when people start to value Liberty over Comfort and stop worshiping at the bought idols that their masters provide.

Our complicity is bought through fear, comfort, and the promise of a nice life if we just bow down and worship.

It stops when we burn the idols and say, no, not even for my life will I do as you say. But most people on this forum are more interested in comfort and false safety of being "left alone". Most here don't even believe that we should do anything other than hunt or that it is good that ammo will cost 100 bucks a round because it will keep the "riff-raff" out of the game. I could even name names.

Since everyone is desperate for the latest i-Dol to put in their house and enjoy I don't see anything changing. As long as a house is more important than liberty, as long as getting an i-Phone is more important than liberty, as long as no one wants to sacrifice or pay anything other than worthless paper money nothing will change, it will only get worse.

When that last worst time does come to them or their children it will be too late as it was for the Jews in the Ghetto when they finally decided to resist with arms. They would have succeeded in breaking out if they had just had MORE GUNS, that is most historian's take on it. But every one in the Ghetto said what people on Cal Guns are saying now, they kept saying it as they were taken away, then as there were fewer and fewer of them and almost all their weapons were gone, they woke up. But it was too late. As it will be here.

In less than a generation there will be NO AKs or ARs left in this state as they will be un-transferable. There will be no handguns for sale as more and more drop off the list. You will be limited to 2 per year PPT for off roster, of which more demand and far less availability will increase cost exponentially. In a generation there will be very few and very expensive transferable weapons left. Let alone ammo.

I bet 100 bucks to CGF and 100 to NRA that not one of the laws that are passed and signed will be able to get a preliminary injunction and that the court cases will take 5-10 years to resolve just the current laws passed this year.

Anyone want to take me up on this bet? As before, when I offered this bet, no one did because they knew I was right on every single point. I challenge you delusional folks MATCH MY MONEY. We will then see whose vision is the clearer and more correct.
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  #49  
Old 09-03-2013, 12:10 PM
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They will keep passing more restrictions until SCOTUS steps in and defines 2A. Eventually, the law of the land must look similar across state lines, regarding a constitutional right. Which means, if we're lucky, that we will find ourselves in some middle-ground from where we are today...not as restricted but also not as free as the free states today.

Now, if we get Hillary in 2016, and the complexion of SCOTUS changes....we will have a major problem. Expect that only licensed hunters (who show evidence of hunting activity) will be able to own rifles with 5 round limits, and handguns will be limited to 10 rounds or less, with magazine locks on everything to prevent quick reloading. Single bullets will cost about what a gallon of gas does, and the police state will be in full force, with M16-armed cops on every corner in every neighborhood. "For the children."

Sound impossible? Things change quickly....look at the last 6 years. Obama is largely ineffective at promoting his policies. Sandy Hook didn't get him one inch at the federal level, and for as many states that restricted rights after the event, even more states voted to loosen regulations. Healthcare was the only thing he was able to ram through, and that bill was not even close to what he wanted (single-payer system) even with majorities in the House and Senate. Hillary is a much more effective politician and will be more successful at pushing her agenda (which we all know is clearly anti-gun). 8 years of her after 8 of Obama will erode any and all basic rights we think we might have left.

Given the complete lack of suitable candidates for POTUS from the Republican party, we are looking at 2024 realistically before our side can nominate SCOTUS judges. Which may be far too late...

This is a critical point in our history. We must make our voice heard and we must raise the profile of our plight in such a way to get the common person to agree, even if they do not wish to own a gun as well. We absolutely must to find a way to re-frame the argument. Get involved--support pro-2A organizations monetarily and with your time, and get involved with local politics in other ways, and for other reasons than 2A. Your argument is more credible and will reach more ears if you have something to talk about other than just the 2nd amendment.

Last edited by onethumb; 09-03-2013 at 12:12 PM..
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  #50  
Old 09-03-2013, 1:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12yak View Post
Honestly, I'm hoping for some natural cataclysmic event where all of these libtards can have front row seats to the temporary breakdown of society and watch their homes being ransacked by their gun-hating neighbors/constituents for food, water, and anything of value to barter. I never thought I'd look forward to a big quake, but I am (with no loss of life). I promise not to use my guns to defend the anti's lives and property. Maybe then they'd realize what a mistake they've been making.
I understand your thoughts, I am just concerned that that would be the perfect chance to declare martial law and confiscate all weapons. It didn't even require widespread looting and violence (although there was some) during the last hurricane caused flood in Louisiana. The cops there even went so far as to jam that old lady with the revolver. And when I searched for this one, there were a bunch of others that also popped up. (Some from Canada.)



There has been clarification that confiscation of guns in emergencies is wrong,

Quote:
In 2006, then-President George W. Bush signed an executive order called the Disaster Recovery Personal Protection Act that strengthened individual gun rights during a national emergency.
Quote:
The state of Louisiana also passed their own law that specifically forbids law enforcement agencies of disarming law abiding citizens.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2012...nal-emergency/

But who out there with half a brain thinks that these laws to prevent the confiscation of guns during an emergency would actually be heeded by the state politicians?

But it is still a concern.
http://mobile.wnd.com/2013/02/see-po...rom-americans/
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  #51  
Old 09-03-2013, 1:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G21Shooter View Post
Let's say all the current legislation passes and becomes law, do you think the Anti's here in CA will take a break from making gun laws?

Maybe relax for a while and decide the laws are good enough for them?

The question is, how far honestly do you think the anti gunners in this state would go with their laws if they had their way, realistically?
Until you take the hint and move or give up your guns. They don't want you and your guns around. If you must have a gun, you can have one medium-length shotgun for home defense, and you can own eight serialized rounds for it. If you stay in California, be prepared to own a single licensed gun with licensed ammunition.

The big problem for the country is that emigrating Californians have spouses, families and children whose bad ideas infect and ruin wherever they move.
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  #52  
Old 09-03-2013, 3:37 PM
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Originally Posted by onethumb View Post
They will keep passing more restrictions until SCOTUS steps in and defines 2A.
They already did that.

Quote:
Held:

1. The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home.

2. Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment or state analogues. The Court’s opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms. Miller’s holding that the sorts of weapons protected are those “in common use at the time” finds support in the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of dangerous and unusual weapons.
So even California politicians know that they can't completely ban firearms, but they will restrict them as far as is allowed under the Constitution, in the hope that gun ownership will become so expensive and full of petty harassment (DROS fees, ammunition purchase permits, 10-day waiting period, universal background checks, handgun roster, etc.) that most Californians will give up gun ownership or won't bother becoming a gun owner. And that will be fine with most Californians.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gene Hoffman

The Constitutional minimum of the right to arms will not be set in Oregon. It will be set in states like California, New Jersey, Illinois, Massachusetts and New York.
So you live in a state that will have the absolute minimum, basement-level of gun rights, according to one of your leaders. Lucky you.

What will that look like? You will still be able to own several types of firearms, even handguns. But you will have to keep your handguns at home or use them only at a shooting range, unless you live in a rural area and can get a CCW permit. The handguns will have to be California state approved models, of course.

You will be able to own bolt-action and lever-action rifles, and pump-action or break-action shotguns, and rimfire semi-auto rifles. California politicians will accurately point out that people can still own guns for home defense or for hunting, as long as they are one of the approved types.



Buying ammunition will be expensive and subject to petty harassment (permit, thumb printing, perhaps a special tax).

In order to qualify for the permit that will be required to own or purchase a firearm you will have to prove competency and probably safe storage capability. You will be required to purchase some type of liability insurance (remember, the Supreme Court decided in the Obamacare case that you can be compelled to buy insurance). The cumulative effect will be to make firearm ownership such an expensive pain in the rear that all but the hard core or wealthy enthusiasts will give it up. There will be frequent "gun buybacks" where people will voluntarily dispose of their no longer wanted firearms. Firearm ownership in California will be similar to that in Canada or Australia: fewer people will own fewer firearms in a tightly regulated fashion. But there will still be guns and gun owners in California, including, of course, criminals with guns. And there will be no "molon labe" or armed insurrection, that's just a lot of chest thumping and Internet posturing. Anyone who tries that will get a visit from a SWAT team and end up on the 11 o'clock news.

Last edited by Milsurp Collector; 09-03-2013 at 3:59 PM..
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  #53  
Old 09-03-2013, 3:55 PM
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They won't stop. It's not about public safety. It's about control and disarmament. Sounds extreme but that is their agenda.

If you read SB 374 you'll see at the bottom that one of the consultants is the Brady Campaign. The Brady Campaign has hired the woman who spearheaded the gun control effort in Australia and you see how that turned out.

They started with scary guns "assault weapons". They then went after handguns, bolt action rifles and cowboy single action handguns. Australia has virtually no firearms. Btw, the violent crime rate soared in Australia after they're national gun ban, including a huge spike in home invasion robberies.

Another note, after the UK banned all guns they began banning carrying knives in public. No joke.

Feinstein in 1995 publicly declared on TV that if she had the votes in the Senate she would have told "Mr. and Mrs. America, turn em all in".

There is no appeasement or "compromise" with people who discriminate against you because of your fundamental beliefs in the second amendment and who mean to deprive you of your rights.
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Last edited by 2nd Mass; 09-03-2013 at 4:05 PM..
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  #54  
Old 09-03-2013, 4:22 PM
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Originally Posted by 2nd Mass View Post
The Brady Campaign has hired the woman who spearheaded the gun control effort in Australia and you see how that turned out.

They started with scary guns "assault weapons". They then went after handguns, bolt action rifles and cowboy single action handguns. Australia has virtually no firearms.
That simply isn't true.

Quote:
Firearms categories

Firearms in Australia are grouped into Categories determined by the National Firearm Agreement with different levels of control. The categories are:

Category A: Rimfire rifles (not semi-automatic), shotguns (not pump-action or semi-automatic), air rifles, and paintball markers. A "Genuine Reason" must be provided for a Category A firearm.

Category B: Centrefire rifles (not semi-automatic), muzzleloading firearms made after 1 January 1901. Apart from a "Genuine Reason", a "Genuine Need" must be demonstrated, including why a Category A firearm would not be suitable.

Category C: Semi-automatic rimfire rifles holding 10 or fewer rounds and pump-action or semi-automatic shotguns holding 5 or fewer rounds. Category C firearms are strongly restricted: only primary producers, occupational shooters, collectors and some clay target shooters can own functional Category C firearms.

Category D: Semi-automatic centrefire rifles, pump-action or semi-automatic shotguns holding more than 5 rounds. Functional Category D firearms are restricted to government agencies and a few occupational shooters. Collectors may own deactivated Category D firearms.

Category H: Handguns including air pistols and deactivated handguns. (Albeit both SA and WA do not require deactivated handguns to be regarded as handguns after the deactivation process has taken place. This situation was the catalyst in QLD for the deactivation and diversion of thousands of handguns to the black-market – the loophole shut since 2001) This class is available to target shooters. To be eligible for a Category H firearm, a target shooter must serve a probationary period of 12 months the first 6 months using club handguns,then in the remainder of the last 6 month probationary licence, an application may be made, permit to acquire. A minimum number of matches yearly to retain each category of handgun and be a financial member of an approved Pistol Club. Source http://www.police.nsw.gov.au/services/firearms

These categories – A,B,C,D and H were those determined by the NFA. The others listed here are determined by the states that have implement them at their own discretion.

Target shooters are limited to handguns of .38 or 9mm calibre or less and magazines may hold a maximum of 10 rounds. Participants in certain "approved" pistol competitions may acquire handguns up to .45", currently Single Action Shooting and Metallic Silhouette. IPSC shooting is approved for 9mm/.38/.357 sig, handguns that meet the IPSC rules, but larger calibres are not approved for IPSC handgun shooting contests in Australia. source http://www.ipsc.org.au/ . Category H barrels must be at least 100mm (3.94") long for revolvers, and 120mm (4.72") for semi-automatic pistols unless the pistols are clearly ISSF target pistols: magazines are restricted to 10 rounds. Handguns held as part of a collection were exempted from these limits.

Category R/E: Restricted weapons: machine guns, rocket launchers, assault rifles, flame-throwers, anti-tank guns, Howitzers, artillery, etc. can be owned by collectors in some states provided that these weapons have been rendered permanently inoperable. They are subject to the same storage and licensing requirements as fully functioning firearms.


There are some Australian collectors who post on Gunboards.com and who are even able to import bolt-action rifles from Americans http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...aussie-members
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  #55  
Old 09-03-2013, 4:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malthusian View Post
Once the citizens are disarmed
Law enforcement will be dis-armed as well
Look to England for the end game
naaa. They won't take the LEO's guns here.

As far I know LEOs in England were never big on guns or carrying. I've read anecdotes about them asking to borrow firearms from people in crowds when they needed them...
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  #56  
Old 09-03-2013, 7:47 PM
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I am still waiting for someone to throw down on my bet. No one ever seems to, especially those "things will get better folks".
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  #57  
Old 09-03-2013, 7:59 PM
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Why would they stop? It's for your own good that the .gov mothers you, and think of the children!
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  #58  
Old 09-04-2013, 1:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Milsurp Collector View Post
That simply isn't true.
There are some Australian collectors who post on Gunboards.com and who are even able to import bolt-action rifles from Americans http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...aussie-members
Yes, the word virtually was used instead of the work all. Sometimes semantics make a difference.

Some australians do have firearms but it's few and my understanding is that it's an arduous process. Look at the per capita firearms ownership in Australia now compared to what it was before the ban and you'll understand what I mean.

Not meant to thread jack, was just trying to make a point about the disasters we're facing and used Australia as an example.
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  #59  
Old 09-04-2013, 1:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Corbin Dallas View Post
When no "Law Abiding" American citizen has a firearm.

Then they will go after knives.
^This. Seriously. Liberal insanity has no end.
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  #60  
Old 09-04-2013, 1:27 AM
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Well, according to the reading of the Anti's 2nd Amendment and the narrowest reading of DC vs Heller, The aforementioned Australian law can be applied to California and would not violate the 2nd amendment. It, afterall, merely regulates the type of rifles and pistols one and own and does not amount to an absolute band.
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  #61  
Old 09-04-2013, 6:21 AM
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Originally Posted by 2nd Mass View Post
Yes, the word virtually was used instead of the work all. Sometimes semantics make a difference.
So you used a weasel word. It still isn't true.

Quote:

vir·tu·al·ly
[vur-choo-uh-lee]
adverb
for the most part; almost wholly; just about
Australia has 15 firearms per 100 population. The population of Australia is 22,320,000. 22,320,000 divided by 100 x 15 = 3,348,000 firearms.

Over 3 million firearms is not "virtually no firearms". It's not semantics, it's a false statement. Since you are into semantics, you should be able to figure out a three letter word for a false statement.
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  #62  
Old 09-04-2013, 1:21 PM
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It ends with the photo in rm1911's sig.
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  #63  
Old 09-04-2013, 2:48 PM
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The gun grabbers will be satisfied for a short time until another crazy person shoots up a school. Then whatever type of gun the shooter used will become the target of new legislation. The cycle will continue until the only people who have guns are criminals.
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Old 09-04-2013, 3:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meaty-btz View Post
It stops when people start to value Liberty over Comfort and stop worshiping at the bought idols that their masters provide.

Our complicity is bought through fear, comfort, and the promise of a nice life if we just bow down and worship.

It stops when we burn the idols and say, no, not even for my life will I do as you say. But most people on this forum are more interested in comfort and false safety of being "left alone". Most here don't even believe that we should do anything other than hunt or that it is good that ammo will cost 100 bucks a round because it will keep the "riff-raff" out of the game. I could even name names.

Since everyone is desperate for the latest i-Dol to put in their house and enjoy I don't see anything changing. As long as a house is more important than liberty, as long as getting an i-Phone is more important than liberty, as long as no one wants to sacrifice or pay anything other than worthless paper money nothing will change, it will only get worse.

When that last worst time does come to them or their children it will be too late as it was for the Jews in the Ghetto when they finally decided to resist with arms. They would have succeeded in breaking out if they had just had MORE GUNS, that is most historian's take on it. But every one in the Ghetto said what people on Cal Guns are saying now, they kept saying it as they were taken away, then as there were fewer and fewer of them and almost all their weapons were gone, they woke up. But it was too late. As it will be here.

In less than a generation there will be NO AKs or ARs left in this state as they will be un-transferable. There will be no handguns for sale as more and more drop off the list. You will be limited to 2 per year PPT for off roster, of which more demand and far less availability will increase cost exponentially. In a generation there will be very few and very expensive transferable weapons left. Let alone ammo.

I bet 100 bucks to CGF and 100 to NRA that not one of the laws that are passed and signed will be able to get a preliminary injunction and that the court cases will take 5-10 years to resolve just the current laws passed this year.

Anyone want to take me up on this bet? As before, when I offered this bet, no one did because they knew I was right on every single point. I challenge you delusional folks MATCH MY MONEY. We will then see whose vision is the clearer and more correct.
Truth, it'll piss people off. Keep speaking it though, the more people you upset, the more you made them face the lies they've been living.
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Originally Posted by Ayn Rand View Post
You seek escape from pain. We seek the achievement of happiness. You exist for the sake of avoiding punishment. We exist for the sake of earning rewards. Threats will not make us function; fear is not our incentive. It is not death we wish to avoid, but life that we wish to live.
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  #65  
Old 09-04-2013, 6:43 PM
Stewdabaker23 Stewdabaker23 is offline
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Meaty- I love a good bet but this particular one I wouldn't touch because your correct. Everyone of these bills will get signed and will sit in the courts for years. Fortunately I will be long gone from this state by then.

God willing, California will burn to the ground and the liberals will blame Bush.

Liberals moto- Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Communism.
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Old 09-06-2013, 2:11 PM
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There's an article today about the depth of the NSA's spying that suggests that the government has either intimidated/covinced or stolen keys for pretty much all encryption products and has been monitoring ALL email/internet, etc. for a while.

I think that where this ends is an Orwellian state of totalitarianism. This isn't only about guns. Government wants absolute control. The guns are just inconvenient because it can make any uprising by the peasants more dangerous.
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Old 09-06-2013, 3:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Ranger_Chris61 View Post
My guess would be next would be semi-auto pistols for much of the same BS that are using to ban semi-auto rifles. After that probably shotguns and hunting rifles that are capable of holding more then a single round/shell. Once that's forced through I would say that they will complete their victory lap with a complete ban of all firearms.
Yes, common sense says the laws they are passing now dont do anything because 400 murders a year with AW style weapons is just a small dab compared to 11k with hand guns.
SO the plan is to try and convince everyone that they are making people safer. Well those of us that know whats really going on know this isnt doing anything. So after they pass this crap they will say, "well that didnt work and we need to make you safer and ban handguns!"
Its just part of the big plan.
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Old 09-06-2013, 4:26 PM
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It will never end until they outlaw firearms in California or until we vote in firearm friendly and I mean very friendly politicos.
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Old 09-06-2013, 8:12 PM
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You know I'm starting to think they may pass every single one of these laws and enforce them to the most extreme interpretation possible.

We might wake up one day and find they've effectively banned handguns and semi-auto rifles almost overnight.

The only thing I can hope for at this point is overreach - combined with major political blowback.
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Old 09-06-2013, 8:25 PM
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“they had come to a time when no one dared speak his mind, when fierce, growling dogs roamed everywhere, and when you had to watch your comrades torn to pieces after confessing to shocking crimes.”
― George Orwell, Animal Farm
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