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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 09-02-2013, 9:44 AM
Michaellee223 Michaellee223 is offline
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Default Confiscation of mags

The scary thing about this is they're trying to test out the response of people if the government CONFISCATES, TAKES AWAY something from you whether you like it or not... If you don't want to, it seems they can respond violently. If you willingfully do, the next step is... you know what.

This is not to:
Take away a MAGAZINE that can be converted back to 30 ROUNDS.
Rather this is them trying to prop the door open to:
Take away a _________ that can be converted back to ___________

.... I'd be scared more of this law than any others being passed.
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  #2  
Old 09-02-2013, 9:47 AM
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It's unconstitutional. Illegal taking always is.
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Old 09-02-2013, 9:49 AM
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It's unconstitutional. Illegal taking always is.
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  #4  
Old 09-02-2013, 9:54 AM
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Explain.
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  #5  
Old 09-02-2013, 9:56 AM
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Explain.
HELLO!!!!

where have you been? How many things has the gov been doing thats unconstitutional??? Whenever someone says that is unconstitutional, do you REALLY think they care?
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Old 09-02-2013, 9:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Eggman12 View Post
HELLO!!!!

where have you been? How many things has the gov been doing thats unconstitutional??? Whenever someone says that is unconstitutional, do you REALLY think they care?
Sadly I have that thought about votes, do you really think they care?

Nope.
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Old 09-02-2013, 10:01 AM
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HELLO!!!!

where have you been? How many things has the gov been doing thats unconstitutional??? Whenever someone says that is unconstitutional, do you REALLY think they care?
What the original poster fears, is deprivation of property, without compensation. Which is unconstitutional.
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  #8  
Old 09-02-2013, 10:06 AM
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What the original poster fears, is deprivation of property, without compensation. Which is unconstitutional.
Thank you. And I believe that WILL go to court.
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  #9  
Old 09-02-2013, 10:18 AM
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Thank you. And I believe that WILL go to court.
Yes, I was just being simplistic. The bill in question is likely going to face litigation on the merits of legality.
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Old 09-02-2013, 10:23 AM
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It's not as clear cut as that...

According the 4th Amendment, and the SCOTUS rulings pertaining to it, the government cannot constitutionally "confiscate legally acquired property without compensation". In otherwords, they cannot take your land without compensating you for it. In eminent domain cases, they CAN seize your landed property, they just have to pay you the fair market value for it. In the case of taking your newly banned magazines, they have to offer fair compensation, but they CAN take them.

Here's where it gets grey... what's fair compensation. By the anti's reading of the 4th Amendment and rulings it simply means that you must be given the resale value and/or the opportunity to sell it out of state. So something like $5 per magazine, or a few dollars in tax credit or an amount to time to liquidate them outside California. In our reading, the value of the magazines are "priceless" because they can no longer be legally acquired. Hence, no monetary compensation is ever deemed fair.

It'll be fought out in the courts I am sure... but that can take years unless an injunction is sort and granted. If one is not granted, it'll expose all mag owners to felony charges if they do not comply in the interim.
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Old 09-02-2013, 10:42 AM
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The constituion means nothing when those responsible for upholding it; judges and representatives, turn a blind eye to it and the voters do nothing about it.
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Old 09-02-2013, 1:57 PM
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those moronic STATISTS do not care at all. they will continue to author, sponsor and vote for any and all bills that take away your rights that are not theirs to take.
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Public Safety Chairman Reggie Jones Sawyer, D-Los Angeles said, “This is California; we don’t pay too much attention to the Constitution,”
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  #13  
Old 09-02-2013, 2:06 PM
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Confiscate based on what? As law abiding citizens if they are outlawed, we would turn them in or keep them buried deep and never be able to legally to use them.
People are talking like it will be a door to door search and if you don't give them up, they will be taken forcefully.

Is this a potential ban, or actual confiscation?
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Old 09-02-2013, 2:16 PM
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You guys are making such a big deal out of this. No, we can't use them when the law passes, but no one is holding a gun to your head demanding you turn them over or move out of state. They like to ignore our voices, so f* them. Keep them out of sight, no one needs to know you have them. Someday we will more than likely need them for more important matters. Someday soon by the feel of it unfortunately...
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  #15  
Old 09-02-2013, 3:49 PM
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If they pass the bill, I actually wish they would do go door-to-door and demanding the magazines. Media loves this kind of spectacle event. This will get the attention of the entire nation and ultimately back fire the anti-2a effort.

The problem we are having right now is that there are too many people in CA only care about them selves in short term. Most of them were probably failed by the CA education system that they have long forgotten how this country was founded.

.
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Old 09-02-2013, 3:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michaellee223 View Post
The scary thing about this is they're trying to test out the response of people if the government CONFISCATES, TAKES AWAY something from you whether you like it or not... If you don't want to, it seems they can respond violently. If you willingfully do, the next step is... you know what.

This is not to:
Take away a MAGAZINE that can be converted back to 30 ROUNDS.
Rather this is them trying to prop the door open to:
Take away a _________ that can be converted back to ___________

.... I'd be scared more of this law than any others being passed.

Unconstitutional?? when we have our own federal government taking the gawd#$@ fifth amendment under congressional scrutiny?? Wanna rethink that? Of course they can!
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  #17  
Old 09-02-2013, 5:13 PM
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Originally Posted by deebix View Post
You guys are making such a big deal out of this. No, we can't use them when the law passes, but no one is holding a gun to your head demanding you turn them over or move out of state. They like to ignore our voices, so f* them. Keep them out of sight, no one needs to know you have them. Someday we will more than likely need them for more important matters. Someday soon by the feel of it unfortunately...
That happens if there is a fire at your house and the FD finds a stash of half melted 10/30 Pmags stashed in your closet. Or the local PD serves one of those no-knock warrants on your house because they got some garbage intel.

All you did in either case was just have something in your possession that was perfectly legal when you bought it. Now you are going to jail for nothing.
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  #18  
Old 09-02-2013, 5:36 PM
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Quote:
According the 4th Amendment, ..."confiscate legally acquired property without compensation". In otherwords, they cannot take your land without compensating you for it... they have to offer fair compensation, but they CAN take them.
That would be the Fifth Ammendment. No 5.
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  #19  
Old 09-03-2013, 5:26 PM
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That happens if there is a fire at your house and the FD finds a stash of half melted 10/30 Pmags stashed in your closet. Or the local PD serves one of those no-knock warrants on your house because they got some garbage intel.

All you did in either case was just have something in your possession that was perfectly legal when you bought it. Now you are going to jail for nothing.
Exactly! That's how people are still being arrested for AW's they were supposed to register over ten years ago. Figured no one would know, then one day a neighbor calls about a domestic dispute (real or not), cops arrive to investigate, check the house and felony arrest for non registered AW. There have been so many cases where people for various reasons legal or not had police come into their house. That's why many calgunners advocate following the law. To many accidental felons.
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  #20  
Old 09-03-2013, 5:40 PM
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Originally Posted by 2nd Mass View Post
Exactly! That's how people are still being arrested for AW's they were supposed to register over ten years ago. Figured no one would know, then one day a neighbor calls about a domestic dispute (real or not), cops arrive to investigate, check the house and felony arrest for non registered AW. There have been so many cases where people for various reasons legal or not had police come into their house. That's why many calgunners advocate following the law. To many accidental felons.
At what point though, does remaining a "law abiding citizen" as defined by the State begin interfering with your perception of being an American? I think people are finally starting to answer that question as it pertains to them as an individual, which is what we're seeing here.

Not all of us value our lives over our freedom.
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  #21  
Old 09-03-2013, 5:40 PM
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That would be the Fifth Ammendment. No 5.
Ah yes, a piece of paper.

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Old 09-03-2013, 5:43 PM
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Originally Posted by OTP View Post
Confiscate based on what? As law abiding citizens if they are outlawed, we would turn them in or keep them buried deep and never be able to legally to use them.
People are talking like it will be a door to door search and if you don't give them up, they will be taken forcefully.

Is this a potential ban, or actual confiscation?
In Sunnyvale there is a measure on the ballot for this election that will require us to turn in, permanently convert, or otherwise dispose of (as in remove from the city) all magazines that hold more than 10 rounds. Even if they are disassembled. I expect it to pass with flying colors.

LCAV inspired BS.

My permanently altered 10/30 magazines are safe, FOR NOW. Any magazine repair kits I might own are not.

BTW, passing state laws, local ordinances ARE exactly what due process of law is all about. See our forebears ****ed up a few generations ago when they didn't stand against the passage of the National Firearms Act back in 1934, that essentially opened the door to all sorts of laws that have withstood judicial scrutiny that have become part of the due process.
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Old 09-03-2013, 5:47 PM
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Time to bring back the age old tradition of Tar and Feathers!
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Old 09-03-2013, 5:51 PM
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Originally Posted by POLICESTATE View Post
...
BTW, passing state laws, local ordinances ARE exactly what due process of law is all about. See our forebears ****ed up a few generations ago when they didn't stand against the passage of the National Firearms Act back in 1934, that essentially opened the door to all sorts of laws that have withstood judicial scrutiny that have become part of the due process.
Got to agree with this whole thing. While the vast majority of people in this country are busy celebrating the loss of only a small number of their rights at a time, they seem to have been tricked into accepting that any of the existing gun laws are already unconstitutional to begin with.
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Old 09-03-2013, 6:09 PM
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Time to bring back the age old tradition of Tar and Feathers!
and then fire.
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  #26  
Old 09-03-2013, 6:30 PM
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Originally Posted by bernieb90 View Post
That happens if there is a fire at your house and the FD finds a stash of half melted 10/30 Pmags stashed in your closet. Or the local PD serves one of those no-knock warrants on your house because they got some garbage intel.

All you did in either case was just have something in your possession that was perfectly legal when you bought it. Now you are going to jail for nothing.
They can't burn if they are underground.
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Old 09-03-2013, 6:46 PM
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Time to bring back the age old tradition of Tar and Feathers!
Consequences for their words - Priceless. Fortunately for them, duels have been outlawed.

Last edited by majtom94; 09-03-2013 at 6:48 PM..
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  #28  
Old 09-03-2013, 7:08 PM
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your mags won't be confiscated..
LEO's support the 2A....
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  #29  
Old 09-03-2013, 7:21 PM
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well,i know what 99 percent of us here will o with mags if banned.
courys will see our way
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Old 09-03-2013, 7:21 PM
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well,i know what 99 percent of us here will o with mags if banned.
courys will see our way
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Old 09-03-2013, 7:32 PM
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Originally Posted by dwightlooi View Post
It's not as clear cut as that...

According the 4th Amendment, and the SCOTUS rulings pertaining to it, the government cannot constitutionally "confiscate legally acquired property without compensation". In otherwords, they cannot take your land without compensating you for it. In eminent domain cases, they CAN seize your landed property, they just have to pay you the fair market value for it. In the case of taking your newly banned magazines, they have to offer fair compensation, but they CAN take them.

Here's where it gets grey... what's fair compensation. By the anti's reading of the 4th Amendment and rulings it simply means that you must be given the resale value and/or the opportunity to sell it out of state. So something like $5 per magazine, or a few dollars in tax credit or an amount to time to liquidate them outside California. In our reading, the value of the magazines are "priceless" because they can no longer be legally acquired. Hence, no monetary compensation is ever deemed fair.

It'll be fought out in the courts I am sure... but that can take years unless an injunction is sort and granted. If one is not granted, it'll expose all mag owners to felony charges if they do not comply in the interim.
This goes MUCH further. There are many firearms where there are no magazines available that would fit the new definition. Certainly in some cases the manufacturer or a 3rd party may decide to build a compliant magazine but for several hundred thousand older firearms there is simply not sufficient financial justification to tool up small runs.

End result - the government has 'taken' not only the magazines but use of the firearm too. Think Sacramento intends to pony up the $$ to fix this?
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Old 09-03-2013, 9:30 PM
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Holy f*** batman. The constitution is no longer valid. We are a fascist state. Period. End of story.
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Old 09-03-2013, 9:57 PM
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Magazine rebuild kits? What magazine rebuild kits? No idea WTF you're talking about.
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Old 09-03-2013, 10:15 PM
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Magazine rebuild kits? What magazine rebuild kits? No idea WTF you're talking about.
Once various agencies are able to tap into the NSA database you won't need to know what they are talking about.
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Old 09-04-2013, 6:23 AM
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Once various agencies are able to tap into the NSA database you won't need to know what they are talking about.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_construction

I don't think the wiki definition is an accurate definition of the term; but it sums up the problem for the state if word of the NSA data sharing gets out.
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Old 09-04-2013, 9:34 AM
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Originally Posted by socalblue View Post
This goes MUCH further. There are many firearms where there are no magazines available that would fit the new definition. Certainly in some cases the manufacturer or a 3rd party may decide to build a compliant magazine but for several hundred thousand older firearms there is simply not sufficient financial justification to tool up small runs.

End result - the government has 'taken' not only the magazines but use of the firearm too. Think Sacramento intends to pony up the $$ to fix this?
This will be just one of my dilemmas'. AR pistol in 9mm. Only reliable mags I know of are 32 rounds blocked to 10.
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Old 09-04-2013, 9:45 AM
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Unfortunately - There will need to be a martyr.

A Patriot who will stand and fight against being disarmed -

And will tragically pay the ultimate sacrifice.

THEN the revenge against these agendas will happen........
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Old 09-04-2013, 9:49 AM
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This will be just one of my dilemmas'. AR pistol in 9mm. Only reliable mags I know of are 32 rounds blocked to 10.
metalform makes them in 10 round also. not sure it they're less reliable but metalform is the best out there
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Old 09-04-2013, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by AceGirlsHusband View Post
Thank you. And I believe that WILL go to court.
Just like the case than made the "Approved Handgun List" go away. Oh wait, the List is still in force because the courts are sitting on the case.
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Old 09-04-2013, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by BigPun762 View Post
They can't burn if they are underground.
I've heard it said that when it's time to bury them, it's time to use them.

But it does make me wonder. FD responds to a elderly grandmother having chest pains, grandpa hasn't fired his M1 Carbine for 40 years but still has a 20 round magazine in the closet which the local PD sees. Boom, 89 year old WWII vet arrested for the first time in his life? Would that be enough to enrage the populous?
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