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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #81  
Old 09-02-2013, 4:27 PM
retiredAFcop retiredAFcop is offline
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If you want to see an example of a group going from being an unpopular and misunderstood/feared minority to being a political powerhouse, watch the film "Milk".

Yes, I know that many people on here will make some kind of anti-gay remark, but the film has several scenes where really great points about a public opinion campaign regarding rights are addressed.

1) At one point, Milk argues to other activists that they need to make it a civil rights campaign, rather than allow it to be framed as a gay rights issue.

2) In another part of the film, he makes the point that "When people know one of us - a friend, a neighbor, a coworker, a family members - they are twice as likely to support us".

If we take just those two lessons from that campaign, and follow them, we could make some major changes in public opinion.

When we can frame our opposition to "gun control" based on its harmful impact on 1st, 4th, 5th, and 14th Amendment rights, rather than just 2nd Amendment rights, the virulent antis melt down, because they can't argue against civil rights, and moderates may start paying attention.

As long as we allow society to make us feel ashamed to be gun owners, we will lose. We need to come out of the gun closet, and let everyone know that we are safe and responsible gun owners, and there's nothing wrong about it.
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  #82  
Old 09-02-2013, 10:26 PM
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Nice post...glad others are thinking on a meta level .

On the cultural level we need to create as many entry points as possible to gun ownership...even promote a radical agenda.

Gun ownership should cross every line in terms of gender, race and income. We need to start doing really radical things like pushing for more gun ownership among blacks, latinos, Asians and lower income people.

Calguns perhaps with the NRA should become militant about expanding gun rights to the poor by creating some way for low income urban people who do not own guns to get them cheaply...even large give aways that compete with the urban city sponsored gun buy back programs... Gun ownership is a right and we should expand this right to as many people as possible, with actual gun ownership just as activists do with freedom of speech and voting rights.

Urban gun clubs can be a political bulkwark if again they are expanded into communities that are middle to lower class- urban and tend to vote for democrats. Again Calguns could work with the NRA to create shooting clubs and even buy property to house clubs, that reach out to inner city youth and teach them responsible gun ownership, expose them to the shooting sports, and how to hunt etc...

It could be possible to work more with retailers like Turners or Big 5 to do more things to promote the shooting sports in terms of some type of community outreach and sponsorship. Image building is important so it could involve hunting and the environment, gun safety etc.

We need to look at how cities are restricting gun retailers, and perhaps come up with a Gun friendly version of REI that is membership based that can sponser, import and sell Ca. compliant guns and put some of the profits into hunting and shooting based events, and political activism..and expanding gun ownership and making it hip...

Also it could be possible to put propositions on the ballot every year that offer reasonable alternatives to more restrictive gun laws. An example could be incentive based approaches that give exclusions to organized chartered gun clubs for things like ammo buying, or magazine capacity or linking education and training to exemptions from things like the waiting period. Gun clubs could get the kind of power the state bar has over lawyers in exchange for promoting responsibe safe behavior.

Last edited by Warrior King; 09-02-2013 at 11:01 PM..
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  #83  
Old 09-02-2013, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by naeco81 View Post
I disagree completely. No civil rights advancements succeeded through funding efforts. They all were long, drawn out battles that tested individual resolve and collective unity. Most importantly, they all depended on external support from people with an empathetic appeal to their cause.

That's what we need urgently. We need the vast majority of non-owners who don't already have a firm side in this fight to recognize that the guilt-by-association thinking we face today is the same that empowers racism and discrimination on the basis of gender, age, sexual orientation, religion, or anything else. Honestly this should be a liberal cause... but it isn't because we are equated as criminals and not victims. How do you break the stereotype of being a criminal? Easy, get to know people and let them get to know you.

One of the most effective ways to change this opinion is simple: get out there and be a part of your neighborhood and community. It's the dead easy stuff that people miss. BBQs, picnics, and any event that brings you together (particularly if you can share a meal) does more to support your cause than you can ever imagine. Why? Because it humanizes you and by extension it humanizes gun owners. It's hard to digest the AR-15 owners want to kill humans argument if you happen to know one and they're a great example of an engaged community member.

Also, if you've given up then fine but please stop trying to encourage others in joining you. I'll leave this gem from the man upstairs:
I agree.

The best strategy has a master plan with a grass roots effort linked to a state wide plan with leadership and organization at every level.

The effort should focus on civil rights and gun ownership. It should be non partisan.

On the level of grand strategy we need to create a firewall.

The people in the legislature need to feel a lot of pain when they propose their next gun restriction law. We need payback. The type of payback a politician understands is when they are challenged in an organized and well funded fashion in their own district by a pro civil rights and pro second amendment candidate from their own party, and have to spend more money to defend their seat or face losing it...

In order for these guys to feel pain the effort against them most be non partisan and about putting pro 2a PEOPLE IN SACRAMENTO
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  #84  
Old 09-02-2013, 11:59 PM
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I'll throw this out there, I don't know how much merrit this idea has.

It's no secret that many gun owners around the state are grossly uninformed as to what's happening (or has happened) in the state legislature. I don't think anyone would argue that our efforts could be amplified by having an even larger crowd fighting alongside us. Ok, enough of the rhetoric and onto the idea.

One specific resource that could be utlized are cable TV channels such as the Outdoors Channel. Many firearm companies either sponsor or advertise heavily (such as Midway USA) and could be used to help educate people what's at stake here since they could suffer a loss of business from this state.

It's also possible none of them want to get invloved with politics at all.
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  #85  
Old 09-03-2013, 6:00 AM
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Originally Posted by retiredAFcop View Post
If you want to see an example of a group going from being an unpopular and misunderstood/feared minority to being a political powerhouse, watch the film "Milk".

Yes, I know that many people on here will make some kind of anti-gay remark, but the film has several scenes where really great points about a public opinion campaign regarding rights are addressed.

1) At one point, Milk argues to other activists that they need to make it a civil rights campaign, rather than allow it to be framed as a gay rights issue.

2) In another part of the film, he makes the point that "When people know one of us - a friend, a neighbor, a coworker, a family members - they are twice as likely to support us".

If we take just those two lessons from that campaign, and follow them, we could make some major changes in public opinion.

When we can frame our opposition to "gun control" based on its harmful impact on 1st, 4th, 5th, and 14th Amendment rights, rather than just 2nd Amendment rights, the virulent antis melt down, because they can't argue against civil rights, and moderates may start paying attention.

As long as we allow society to make us feel ashamed to be gun owners, we will lose. We need to come out of the gun closet, and let everyone know that we are safe and responsible gun owners, and there's nothing wrong about it.
Yes!
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  #86  
Old 09-03-2013, 6:13 AM
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Originally Posted by retiredAFcop View Post
2) In another part of the film, he makes the point that "When people know one of us - a friend, a neighbor, a coworker, a family members - they are twice as likely to support us".
It's sad how many gun owners refuse to "come out of the closet." The bunker mentality that prevails in the shooting community has and will lead, more than anything else, to the curtailment of our rights.
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  #87  
Old 09-03-2013, 6:25 AM
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Half the people in this forum have the equipment.

Who has the millions of dollars to pay for teevee ads?
there are much cheaper social media tools such as youtube, etc...if the video is done right, it will attract eyeballs and even tv media for free...
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  #88  
Old 09-03-2013, 6:31 AM
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there are much cheaper social media tools such as youtube, etc...if the video is done right, it will attract eyeballs and even tv media for free...
It will be viewed by people who want to view it. Most parts of the internet are echo chambers. Even web ads are carefully directed according to your known tastes and interests, based on searching and browsing history.

The only media where people are more or less forced to look at something they otherwise might not want to is teevee.
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  #89  
Old 09-03-2013, 7:15 AM
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Originally Posted by retiredAFcop View Post
If you want to see an example of a group going from being an unpopular and misunderstood/feared minority to being a political powerhouse, watch the film "Milk".

Yes, I know that many people on here will make some kind of anti-gay remark, but the film has several scenes where really great points about a public opinion campaign regarding rights are addressed.

1) At one point, Milk argues to other activists that they need to make it a civil rights campaign, rather than allow it to be framed as a gay rights issue.

2) In another part of the film, he makes the point that "When people know one of us - a friend, a neighbor, a coworker, a family members - they are twice as likely to support us".

If we take just those two lessons from that campaign, and follow them, we could make some major changes in public opinion.

When we can frame our opposition to "gun control" based on its harmful impact on 1st, 4th, 5th, and 14th Amendment rights, rather than just 2nd Amendment rights, the virulent antis melt down, because they can't argue against civil rights, and moderates may start paying attention.

As long as we allow society to make us feel ashamed to be gun owners, we will lose. We need to come out of the gun closet, and let everyone know that we are safe and responsible gun owners, and there's nothing wrong about it.

This plus what the OP is intimating is absolutely right. The challenge becomes one of outreach. We really need to be very focused on getting women (mothers and educators) on our side. You want a cultural change or reclamation of gun culture as a positive force? Then let us start with those who guide culture.

Pink guns are a poor substitute for focused outreach. Just ask the women in our Calguns community.
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  #90  
Old 09-03-2013, 8:41 AM
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There's a conflict between the national trend and a few states (CA, NY, etc). It doesn't seem like that dichotomy can continue without some resolution. For example the federal CCW reciprocation legislation that nearly passed a while back.

We may never get all the dumb CA laws struck down even after 50 years of post-Heller litigation. There are some things courts won't say warrant 2A protection (SBS's for example) and we won't get them without a culture shift. I strongly doubt that culture shift will happen without external influences. 9/11 seemed to be an inflection point so something horrible could happen and wake more people up, but I wouldn't count on it.
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  #91  
Old 09-03-2013, 9:07 AM
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...
Regardless of who started the thread if you've got an idea or thought post it up and let's see if it can be developed.
Grassroots means were ALL involved and have input so lefts hear it.
A reasonable start would, in my opinion be to split the state of California into no more than 3 separate states to better represent the people who live here rather than the leviathan centralized state government that's been allowed to fester in Sacramento.

Short of that, there isn't a single peaceful approach that I can see myself supporting.
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  #92  
Old 09-03-2013, 1:18 PM
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This is actually an excellent idea. There are a few logistical issues, however, though I'm sure with some thought they could be overcome.

I host a monthly fun shoot on a private range I rent at Burro Canyon. We invite anyone we can think of, including politicians and press (though we haven't got any of them to show up yet). But every month we get two or three n00bs who have never handled a firearm, so we start them with .22s and by the end of the day they are shooting 12 gauge shotguns. We emphasize safety above all. It's fun and gratifying.

There are some problems. The first is that Burro Canyon is so far away from most folks, and also that it means giving up most of a Saturday for anyone who wants to come. What Brandon Combs and I have taken to calling a "Shooting Salon" might work better at a more accessible range such as Oak Tree. Another idea would be renting a private room at an indoor range (for those that rent private rooms and don't treat all their customers, especially n00bs, with contempt and suspicion).

Another problem is that we don't turn anyone away, so on some days we get as many as 14 people at the shoot. That's a lot of folks, which means a crowded firing line and not enough individual attention for all. That could maybe be solved with more volunteers. Maybe the cards you hand out have specific dates on them, and people have to sign up (perhaps on-line) to reserve a space (problem with this is if they don't pay money to keep their space - and we don't want them to pay for the shoot - many or most will blow off the shoot and keep out people who really wanted to go. Maybe the cards should read, "Free gun rental, ammunition and instruction for $5 or $10 sign-up fee").

Ammunition and guns aren't a problem; all you need is money for that. Cleaning ten or more guns afterwards IS a big problem.

There are other issues that would need to be worked out, aside from the big one of inviting complete strangers to come shoot with you. With all our shoots, even the n00bs are at least friends of friends.
We also need to ensure that we present facts and not anti Obama crap and all of that.
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  #93  
Old 09-03-2013, 4:06 PM
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We also need to ensure that we present facts and not anti Obama crap and all of that.
Yep. No politics (unless they ask), no one barking orders. Emphasis on fun and safety.

People can draw their own conclusions.
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Old 09-03-2013, 4:13 PM
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A reasonable start would, in my opinion be to split the state of California into no more than 3 separate states to better represent the people who live here rather than the leviathan centralized state government that's been allowed to fester in Sacramento.

Short of that, there isn't a single peaceful approach that I can see myself supporting.
That's a great start. Here is the organization you can support in the effort to split the state. http://www.pe.com/local-news/politic...till-alive.ece

In the meantime we can all still pursue activism in media and begin implementing some of the ideas that have been brainstormed here.
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  #95  
Old 09-04-2013, 12:52 AM
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Yep. No politics (unless they ask), no one barking orders. Emphasis on fun and safety.

People can draw their own conclusions.
Agreed.
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Old 09-04-2013, 2:58 PM
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The old methods aren't working because the rules have changed. We're trying to work within a system that doesn't even exist anymore. The form of government established by the Founding Fathers has been usurped by corrupt and conspiring men. (See "Common Sense: Revisited" here http://www.commonsenserevisited.com/ for a clear explanation of how our government has been transformed.)

Also, California's demographics have changed dramatically. As immigrants flood our state legally or illegally our traditions and culture get swept away. (Yes, I know some come here seeking freedom and do assimilate, but that's the exception rather than the rule now.)

I suggest that any change in tactics should account for these two realities in order to be successful. Unfortunately, I don't have the answer as to exactly what the new tactics should be, but many of you are suggesting some great ideas.

Something else to consider: Relying on the courts is very dangerous. Ultimately, when a dictator isn't getting the results he wants from the "legitimate" courts, he just creates his own puppet courts. For example, read about the People's Court in Germany here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People's_Court_(Germany.) The United States has already started down this path by creating the FISA court, which you can read about here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...eillance_Court.

Just my two cents.
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Old 09-04-2013, 9:47 PM
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As always, the power vested in the people is only potent en masse. We need a cultural shift in how California views guns. The court battles and politician pressure are important and should not be neglected either, but the real victory awaits us in the arms of our neighbors. I'm serious about the get-out-and-picnic-together plan; it would be immensely successful if only we could organize it to scale effectively. This doesn't require any Herculean effort. It requires time and a willingness to be someone in your local community; something every Calgunner can do if so inclined.
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Old 09-04-2013, 10:45 PM
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this state is a loss if have have the ability leave the state

the only option left is social and economic collapse created by those the fascists in sacramento have been pandering to. When the free stuff runs out the drones will turn on them
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Old 09-05-2013, 1:12 AM
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As always, the power vested in the people is only potent en masse. We need a cultural shift in how California views guns. The court battles and politician pressure are important and should not be neglected either, but the real victory awaits us in the arms of our neighbors. I'm serious about the get-out-and-picnic-together plan; it would be immensely successful if only we could organize it to scale effectively. This doesn't require any Herculean effort. It requires time and a willingness to be someone in your local community; something every Calgunner can do if so inclined.
I agree this is the best thing to do; getting new people interested in shooting is great, but slow going. Picnics and marches might attract some attention, probably hysteria from the powers that be. Don't bring any guns, just posters, etc. Don't litter.

Combine it with a march to City Hall or a TV station. Get permits if needed. Yes we work but we can do this on Saturday or Sunday. Lots of video clips for YouTube. The more you do this the more antsy they will get.

The left hates it when we act like them.
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Old 09-05-2013, 11:20 AM
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Personally, I think there is a long-term goal with the Gun Prohibitionists. Very insidiously there is an entire generation coming of age who don't shoot, hunt or engage in any firearms-related activity. I do believe I've read that the age of the average firearms user is rising dramatically.

Times are changing. In 30 years I wouldn't be surprised if most adults under the age of 70 look at firearms like they do cigarettes. And if this nation proceeds towards a United Nations sovereignty - an agenda decidedly against personal ownership of small arms - that will be a very convenient social attitude for the future administrations who would then move to amend the Constitution and strike 2A as a personal right.

A lot of people don't tend to grow up with rifles, shotguns and handguns the way I (and many of you) did. And it is one of the worst trends ever to influence the direction of this nation. Once it is gone, short of civil war, it will never come back.

Now I shall await my beating on this forum.
This is the biggest threat. We can all do our small part by encouraging safe firearms ownership within our own families and our cirlces of friends. I am working from a young age to make sure that my sons realize that much of what they are "taught" in school is not fact but rather opinion. Many students even up through their college years somehow feel that whatever they hear from a teacher must be true and could never be absolutely biased BS.

Teach 'em young and indoctrination has little chance of taking hold.
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  #101  
Old 09-05-2013, 8:12 PM
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Firearm user....do they include LEO and Military in that calculation?
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  #102  
Old 09-05-2013, 10:29 PM
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I really like the positivity of this thread. At least trying to think outside the box.

So many ideas, they need to be summarized and numbered to keep track of them, but they're all good.

I like either the Ads on TV or Youtube, and/or instructional videos on Youtube that can be shared. This can break stereotypes and give newbies some information so guns aren't so foreign to them.

I like the shoots. There's a gun club on Meetup that have shoots every week!! They even have gun cleaning parties, etc. Those would be great to bring newbs to. There they can learn basic parts, function, field stripping, cleaning, etc.

How many nonshooting friends have you invited to shoot? Do they even know you have firearms? There's a really good way to start.

At the shoots or other similar events could be a good time to provide a list of proposed legislation that's in the process. They would normally not care, but now they have a stake in the matter, they will care.

Political action, court action, etc.

You guys have really come up with a lot of good ideas, all of them. And its probably best to use ALL OF THEM, to fullfill our long term goal.
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  #103  
Old 09-06-2013, 6:15 AM
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I like the shoots. There's a gun club on Meetup that have shoots every week!! They even have gun cleaning parties, etc. Those would be great to bring newbs to. There they can learn basic parts, function, field stripping, cleaning, etc.
Anyone can start a Meetup group. The more the merrier.

But I was an organizer a few years ago of a Meetup shooting group. It was pretty moribund. Shooting isn't really a social activity. Shooters don't need to join a club to go shooting, and non-shooters aren't going to join a shooting Meetup (or if they do they will probably find other things to do when the date of the shoot comes around).

In my case, with our monthly shoots, the idea isn't to turn non-shooters into shooting enthusiasts; it's to expose non-shooters to the sport, to firearms, and especially to the other people - men, women, kids - who are shooters. Almost none of the n00bs we've had at our shoots have come back, but that's okay because in every case they learned a lot and had a really good time.

By the way, another idea is buying places for n00bs in Appleseed meets. I thought my Appleseed experience was a very positive one, and again there were lots of women and kids there. They have a refreshing rule that no one is allowed to talk about politicians who haven't been dead at least 200 years.
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Old 09-06-2013, 9:26 AM
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And this is why we lose...i am sure the people who marched with MLK also had jobs...i am sure the thousands who stood at the Lincon memorial and listened to his "I have a dream " speech also had taxes and bills to pay..but they got out there anyways...and won.


If they "phoned it in" as you perfer to do..they would still be suffering from jim crows laws today...
Um, I don't think you understood or even read what I wrote.
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Old 09-06-2013, 9:37 AM
el chivo el chivo is offline
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another thing that comes to mind is something the left does, make an inspiring sounding name for your organization. For example, Planned Parenthood isn't about planning and it certainly isn't about parenthood. It's an abortion factory, but that doesn't sound very nice.

So, and I know this is hard for gun nuts, but don't make your organization about guns or shooting. Make it about rights. Call it something like "Americans Against Tyranny" or "Citizens Against Genocide" or "Women's Defense League" or "Association for Inalienable Rights". Make your mission statement about preserving core rights, 2A rights among them. Then have rallies and picnics, and the media will have a harder time portraying you as just gun nuts. And non-shooting people can get involved if they want to. Just have a group or several groups where having 2A rights are key to its principles.

One thing missing in all this talk is WHY we need to have firearms, which most people think we don't. Don't educate people on how cool AR's are, just link the facts of gun ownership to having rights. If you have the right mindset, they will look bad trying to squelch you.

If you show up at a park waving guns around, blocking traffic, etc., then squelching your movement becomes a public safety issue and they will look good trying to do it.

And what's this about "first, split California into 3 states"? What are you guys smokin'?
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  #106  
Old 09-07-2013, 1:44 AM
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TeddyBallgame TeddyBallgame is offline
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we gotta get our 2A and RKBA back in the schools...it was taught when I was a kid, we shouldn't accept that an important part of our history is being bleached out...we need to organize shooting competitions for young shooters, get it back as a sport, even if we have to incorporate it in with another sport, like archery...lol, archery and shooting competitions

I have one kid, that I used to invite shooting, with my son and me, who just bought his first firearm...he had never shot a gun before he went with me


wouldn't mind seeing that happen more often

let's recruit Hickok45 to campaign for us...he can make anyone want to go out and do some shooting after watching him...I know I do
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  #107  
Old 09-07-2013, 11:01 AM
el chivo el chivo is offline
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Originally Posted by TeddyBallgame View Post
we gotta get our 2A and RKBA back in the schools...it was taught when I was a kid, we shouldn't accept that an important part of our history is being bleached out...we need to organize shooting competitions for young shooters, get it back as a sport, even if we have to incorporate it in with another sport, like archery...lol, archery and shooting competitions

I have one kid, that I used to invite shooting, with my son and me, who just bought his first firearm...he had never shot a gun before he went with me


wouldn't mind seeing that happen more often

let's recruit Hickok45 to campaign for us...he can make anyone want to go out and do some shooting after watching him...I know I do
I was a Boy Scout way back when, and their core is about having integrity and skills, and guess what, learning to shoot was one of them. The only time I got to shoot until I was 47 was at Boy Scout summer camp.
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  #108  
Old 09-08-2013, 7:37 AM
ja308 ja308 is offline
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I went to an Appleseed event some years back and the instructors did a presentation of events ocuring on April 19 775 .

Doing a websearch of " shot heard round the world " is a quick course on how British subjects became American citizens!
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  #109  
Old 09-08-2013, 6:50 PM
foxtrotuniformlima foxtrotuniformlima is offline
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The only way this will be solved is if those who sell guns and ammo refuse to sell to any government agency that operates within this state. If Federal, Winchester, Remington and the like all say no to sales to LE in CA, then maybe there is a chance.

Perhaps we can beat them with their own game plan. They figure a gun is useless with ammo. Well, theirs be useless too.
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  #110  
Old 09-09-2013, 3:52 PM
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Hiknefer Hiknefer is offline
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Another idea regarding video games... I never played the game Sim City but I have a vague understanding of how it works. Apparently, you make decisions about managing a city and the success or failure of the city depends on those decisions. Imagine a similar game ("Sim Government?") where your decisions determine the fate of a nation's freedom. For example, good decisions would lead to prosperity, freedom, high literacy levels, scientific and artistic development, positive foreign relationships, etc. Bad decisions would lead to dysfunctionality, ignorance, poverty, crime, tyranny, enslavement, war, genocide, etc.

Maybe something like this already exists. I think it would be a fun learning tool. I've noticed from my own experience that early in life, it's difficult to see the impact that government has in our lives. A game like this could help younger people start to see the significance of seemingly meaningless government actions before it's too late and they become brainwashed by the government indoctrination system.
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