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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #41  
Old 08-31-2013, 12:33 PM
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How about taking back seats in the Assembly and Senate one, two, or three at a time. Pick the most vulnerable candidates and make a concerted effort to defeat them. Let face it, voter turnout is always low and if we can convince the right people in those districts to get out and vote, we could start turning the tide. I believe there is a special election in mid Sept and we can try to make a change there.
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Old 08-31-2013, 12:51 PM
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BTW, here's a list of 2A cases between Miller and Heller (and some others, as well). Quite an interesting read:

http://www.constitution.org/2ll/bard...eme_cases.html
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  #43  
Old 08-31-2013, 1:27 PM
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I'll tell you something that would get people's attention:

You make a pro 2A tv commercial that features shooters who are Gay, Black, Hispanic, Asian, Female, etc. You have the gay actor talking about his or her rights being restored, you have the Black actor talking about his or her rights being restored, etc.
I believe most people view the NRA as a majority white redneck group so you get minorities to be featured and promoting gun ownership.

This state loves to root for the underdog and whether you realize it or not we ARE the underdog minority that is being discriminated against the most.
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  #44  
Old 08-31-2013, 1:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Hoop View Post
We need to adopt the sorts of attitudes that black activists had in the 50s and 60s; the government is not going to support us, the media will call us crazies and worse, and all the pro-2A cops we see on these forums will have no problem arresting people for violating the mag ban or whatever. We need to protest and fight things the way minority rights groups did in the past because that is what we are, a minority without a voice.


Basically I think we need to raise Hell, but we need to do it in a smart way. If that makes sense.
Am sure most calgunners once again will run away from any idea of people rocking the boat. ... We are so california that we rather hide behind our emails and faxes than holding placards. Then we baby cry we loosing the fight...
The black & the Latino did it, the LGBT are doing it ,the Illegal immigrants are getting things done & even the Marijuana posse are making a change... None,to the best of my knowledge just relied on the court system,fax & email without getting out there day & night to make their voice heard....
We are so good in looking for an easy way out.........more reason why we are the easy target for all dumb lawmakers & their equally dumb bills....

**** now feel free to flame me****
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  #45  
Old 08-31-2013, 1:32 PM
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ZNinerfan, that's great you've met all these reps? I applaud you, sincerely.
And the measurable results was/is?
Yeah, thought so. Sorry I being cynical, but the strategy, if there is one, is NO longer about writing emails or letters. That just won't move the needle.
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  #46  
Old 08-31-2013, 1:35 PM
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Most RKBA supporters unlike the save the whales and pot crowd have jobs, families, school, soccer practice, ect, ect. Very hard for us to protest when we're busy working to pay taxes.

The best avenue I believe is to donate to the heavy hitter pro's to defeat this crap in the courts and twist arms for no votes.

I have a bad feeling with the outcome of all the of these bills though.
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  #47  
Old 08-31-2013, 1:43 PM
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The best avenue I believe is to donate to the heavy hitter pro's to defeat this crap in the courts and twist arms for no votes.
Mafia and Mercenaries,... now there is an idea.
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  #48  
Old 08-31-2013, 3:17 PM
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Solid suggestions. I think countering the MSM would win the war. I don't know if it can be done -- the media rules. Bloomberg owns (literally) much of it. Without Gene or Alan Gura or the NRA buying NBC & the NY Times & CNN, we can't fight in their league. Therefore, we're grassroots, which is (I feel) what's already going on.
Honesty, these news outlets are not influencing the low-information voter. Matter of fact, FOX has more viewers than all of them. There was even a study done that proved that more LIBERALS watch FOX than CNN and NBC combined. News outlets, both print and TV, have NO influence over the majority of this country and probably 75% of voters in this state.

90% of liberals voters do not follow politics, issues, and couldn't even tell you the last time they watched CNN. They are swayed by nothing more than pop-culture. Their news and political commentary comes primarily from media sources like the John Stewart Show, Family Guy, and from the public school system. They will not listen to talk radio when perfectly good rap music is on the airwaves. They will not watch crotchety old men argue politics on TV and don't have the attention span or intellect to follow the economy. They leave the TV on after South Park is over because they are in the middle of doing bong tokes, and inadvertently catch part of the John Steward Show that comes on afterwards. THAT IS THE NEWS!

Go to any big city or university and ask people who the Secretary of State is. Ask them what the details of Obamacare are. Ask them why we celebrate the 4th of July. Ask them who the chairman of the Federal Reserve is. You will QUICKLY realize that the media really has little effect on these human drones. John Stewart and Jamie Fox said Zimmerman was a murderer, so 60% of the country decided that this was all the information they needed. They never watched CNN to get that opinion.

If you want to spread our message, it has to be part of this pop-culture: pro 2nd comedians, conservative variety shows similar to SNL, pro constitution commercials and children's shows. Basically - we would need our own propaganda machine and a large media outlet to spread it.

Conservatives need to remove Christian Ideology from their constitutional arguments. Libertarians need to shelve the 9-11 truthers and Alex Jones types and focus on the constitution.
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  #49  
Old 08-31-2013, 3:39 PM
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The problem is the media is run by the liberal left. A good number of, maybe even a majority, of network execs are women and gay men.

It's a culture war for them, and until you change it from the inside... until the president of NBC, CNN, etc is pro-gun... it's a losing battle.
Which is strange because the media is not even liberal. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YDiJA2_oZY
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  #50  
Old 08-31-2013, 3:42 PM
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As sad and true as some of the comments are I think that the 80% on the 10/80/10 curve needs to be woken up imagine the impact that would have in Kali. I was one of the ignorant and uncareing not too long ago. I had my eyes opened when I got my first handgun. As a new gun owner I wanted to make sure I didn't get into trouble with the law, so I did research. Well safice it to say I was horrified at all the laws in place. I don't think that I was the only one with that attitude. If we can reach the 80% and sway them we will have a chance.
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  #51  
Old 08-31-2013, 3:51 PM
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How can scotus rule on gay rights issues that popped up in the last few months while years old firearms cases grow stagnant?
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  #52  
Old 08-31-2013, 5:38 PM
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Bowling for columbine style movie showing thay self defense and resistance to tyranny and injustice are righteous. Maybe focus on the RACISM of gun control. Pink pistols for sure.

My family was targeted for hate crime multi generationally. I grew up hearing stories of this guy who was killed in his own home, or that family that had their home shot up and burned down, etc. i have no faith that the CA government will protect my family -- because the past hate crimes happened on their watch, and no justice has ever been done on our behalf.
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  #53  
Old 08-31-2013, 5:41 PM
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Bowling for columbine style movie showing thay self defense and resistance to tyranny and injustice are righteous. Maybe focus on the RACISM of gun control.
What rock have you been under.

Search "Assaulted: Civil Rights Under Fire".
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  #54  
Old 08-31-2013, 5:44 PM
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What rock have you been under.

Search "Assaulted: Civil Rights Under Fire".
You gonna buy me a ticket??

Yeah, thats not nearly convincing enough to anti's. My idealized film has to be more broad and cannot appear to focus primarily on 2a. That causes liberals to shut their minds.
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  #55  
Old 08-31-2013, 5:45 PM
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Top Shot is a good show
to promote firearms, I think.
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  #56  
Old 08-31-2013, 6:40 PM
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A campaign to make all of California's gun laws apply to the movie industry might wake more people up...
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  #57  
Old 08-31-2013, 8:17 PM
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A campaign to make all of California's gun laws apply to the movie industry might wake more people up...
What an exciting action adventure that would be. Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang!Bang! Bang!Bang! Bang!Bang! Bang! ... Click click click. * throws gun*
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  #58  
Old 08-31-2013, 9:17 PM
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What an exciting action adventure that would be. Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang!Bang! Bang!Bang! Bang!Bang! Bang! ... Click click click. * throws gun*
These millionaires and billionaires come to California and exploit loopholes in our laws to promote gun violence. We need common sense reforms to close these dangerous loopholes and let the Hollywood fat cats know their agenda is not consistent with California values!

We all know the Democrats in Sacramento won't do anything to upset their masters in Hollywood. It could be a fun campaign.
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  #59  
Old 08-31-2013, 9:50 PM
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Originally Posted by SilverTauron View Post
Time to ruffle some feathers again folks.

Here's why. Those of you who put your faith in the courts must consider the following. The time between Miller vs US and Heller vs DC was 69 years. Even if we cut that time in half, that means its a good possibility we won't see another SCOTUS case on firearms for another 34 odd years.

Sorry folks. The Judiciary is simply not a reliable strategy anymore, not with the opposition spamming the legal books with anti-rights laws. Even if they rule in our favor, 70 years is a long time to wait on a pro-rights verdict.
A Better way to look at it is the the time between Heller and Mcdonald was 2 years. the time from McDonald to the next cert is starting at 3 years

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Originally Posted by SilverTauron View Post
So, we need a new plan . I hope to kickstart a PRODUCTIVE dialogue on the matter, not continual denials about the state of things. Miracles are good things, but a Deus Ex Machina is the stuff of poor planning.

The new idea I have is one the oppositon has effectively used against us-namely, we need to change the culture. At one time even California was pro-RKBA. That changed because the hoplophobes modified the culture, which then modified the laws in their perspective.

We need to do the same. Instead of waiting on a Judicial bailout as a primary plan, lets get grassroots and start changing the culture from the bottom up. Make firearms ownership a cool and trendy act, not a reporbate sign of criminal intent. Once the sheeple treat firearms like they do iPods and iPads, they'll be amenable to voting in favor of the RKBA. Once we've made guns a positive cultural trait, people will accept and own firearms in greater numbers-which will influence the voting booth, and then we can turn the tide effectively.
What could any of this actually mean? 100 Million firearms in America and no federal legislation passed since 1993,adding over 40 states to the CCW list including IL and several constitutional carry states, the number one reality show is about a bunch of guys who make duck calls, Cabelas is the only retail stock going up and Bloomberg cant even buy an election anymore and this just isnt trending the right way for you eh?



Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverTauron View Post
Once we've made being a hoplophobe to be a sign of personal immaturity, their movement will die on the vine. We need to go beyond just taking people to the gun range-we need to get pro-gun media out there. Post fliers, make short movies, get the word about the RKBA into the mainstream. Put pro-gun activity on Facebook, make short independent films showing say , a horror movie where the herione pulls a Glock instead of getting killed by the masked bandit with a knife.

By changing the media culture from the ground up, we'll influence the will and perspective of the sheeple. Once the masses join our new Pro-Gun media bandwagon, the politicians will have no choice but to respect the Constitution. Get the trendy guys and girls with satchels,drama degrees and patchouli in the Starbucks lounge to back gun rights, and we solve this problem permanently.


What will NOT work is sending angry emails to politicians who don't need your vote to stay in office. What will NOT work is believing blind obedience to a failed strategy will get a different result. The old plan's been done since the late 80s, and to what end?

Time to change the music folks.
that is why every single gun group is trying to race to the supreme court.

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  #60  
Old 09-01-2013, 12:42 AM
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What could any of this actually mean? 100 Million firearms in America and no federal legislation passed since 1993,[/QUOTE]

You forgot 2005's PLCAA Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act.

That was HUGE and saved the firearms industry if Heller et al had not occurred or would be further down the pipeline.
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  #61  
Old 09-01-2013, 10:51 AM
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What could any of this actually mean? 100 Million firearms in America and no federal legislation passed since 1993,
You forgot 2005's PLCAA Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act.

That was HUGE and saved the firearms industry if Heller et al had not occurred or would be further down the pipeline.[/QUOTE]


Should have read: "100 million firearms owners"

And "Congress has not passed any anti gun legislation since the now expired Fed AW Ban."

Im sure there are many many examples not listed as to global trend in firearms. feel free to pile on as its good for morale!
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Old 09-01-2013, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by glocksmith View Post
Most RKBA supporters unlike the save the whales and pot crowd have jobs, families, school, soccer practice, ect, ect. Very hard for us to protest when we're busy working to pay taxes.

The best avenue I believe is to donate to the heavy hitter pro's to defeat this crap in the courts and twist arms for no votes.

I have a bad feeling with the outcome of all the of these bills though.
And this is why we lose...i am sure the people who marched with MLK also had jobs...i am sure the thousands who stood at the Lincon memorial and listened to his "I have a dream " speech also had taxes and bills to pay..but they got out there anyways...and won.


If they "phoned it in" as you perfer to do..they would still be suffering from jim crows laws today...
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Old 09-01-2013, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by pistol3 View Post
These millionaires and billionaires come to California and exploit loopholes in our laws to promote gun violence. We need common sense reforms to close these dangerous loopholes and let the Hollywood fat cats know their agenda is not consistent with California values!

We all know the Democrats in Sacramento won't do anything to upset their masters in Hollywood. It could be a fun campaign.
i'm sick and tired of hearing these words "common sense reforms" that are coming out of commies' mouths....

mao must be jumping for joy in his tomb...
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Old 09-01-2013, 12:59 PM
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And this is why we lose...i am sure the people who marched with MLK also had jobs...i am sure the thousands who stood at the Lincon memorial and listened to his "I have a dream " speech also had taxes and bills to pay..but they got out there anyways...and won.


If they "phoned it in" as you perfer to do..they would still be suffering from jim crows laws today...
the fighter who's dedicated (i.e. willing to go to the extreme such as giving up life or liberty) will always win as history have shown....

winners write the rules, losers follow the rules...
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Old 09-01-2013, 1:58 PM
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And this is why we lose...i am sure the people who marched with MLK also had jobs...i am sure the thousands who stood at the Lincon memorial and listened to his "I have a dream " speech also had taxes and bills to pay..but they got out there anyways...and won.


If they "phoned it in" as you perfer to do..they would still be suffering from jim crows laws today...
We aren't losing. We are winning. what you are seeing are a few legislatures overreaching in a last desperate attempt to push the envelope before the courts rule and the issue is gummed up.

All 50 states have License to carry, some of them sans permit. DC is next. the 9th has multiple LTC cases to clarify the right even further. the number of permits in California is increasing daily.

Virtually every California gun law, regulation and practice is being challenged in court(s) by CGF, CRPAF, NRA and nationally there are companion suits by SAF/GURA and other state level organizations.

Since the majority of adult Americans support gun rights- we dont have that much to pitch outside of court. The Legislature is doing what they announced they would do in January- which is push the envelope and let the courts sort it out. and it looks like they have made good on that promise. I for one am excited they are handing us so much material. why wait for the incremental change? Just ban it all now so we can all go to court and find our boundaries.

Please support your fave litigator and remind everyone that we are winning. As them to get out an push once in a while there is alight at the end of the tunnel. this individual right is only 5 years old - its a whole new world we get to play in.

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Old 09-01-2013, 2:39 PM
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BTW, here's a list of 2A cases between Miller and Heller (and some others, as well). Quite an interesting read:

http://www.constitution.org/2ll/bard...eme_cases.html
since Heller and McDonald why haven't we used these two cases as was Miller shoved up our butts for almost 70 years. it's time we use these two cases for our benefit and ram it up theirs. i for one cannot see any of the bills that are being rammed through the Assembly and Senate are not in violation of those two SCOTUS cases and should be dismissed as unconstitutional.

and leaving this state because of the onslaught we have seen this year is truly in my plans.
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Old 09-01-2013, 2:43 PM
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since Heller and McDonald why haven't we used these two cases as was Miller shoved up our butts for almost 70 years. it's time we use these two cases for our benefit and ram it up theirs. i for one cannot see any of the bills that are being rammed through the Assembly and Senate are not in violation of those two SCOTUS cases and should be dismissed as unconstitutional.

and leaving this state because of the onslaught we have seen this year is truly in my plans.
this is being done nationwide by every gun rights acronym you can name.

Waiting for the right case to get cert
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  #68  
Old 09-01-2013, 4:57 PM
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A new plan would be premature. The existing plan hasn’t actually failed. It may, but it hasn’t yet.

If it does, then we can start talking about new plans. A couple interesting ideas have emerged in these recent threads …
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  #69  
Old 09-01-2013, 7:59 PM
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We need to make short commercials of true stories where citizens successfully use a gun to defend themselves. There are millions of "armed citizen" encounters out there that we can use.

So, who has the film equipment to start this.
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Old 09-01-2013, 8:55 PM
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Originally Posted by SilverTauron View Post
The new idea I have is one the oppositon has effectively used against us-namely, we need to change the culture. At one time even California was pro-RKBA. That changed because the hoplophobes modified the culture, which then modified the laws in their perspective.

The new idea I have is one the oppositon has effectively used against us-namely, we need to change the culture. At one time even California was pro-RKBA. That changed because the hoplophobes modified the culture, which then modified the laws in their perspective.
Agree entirely. We got here because of a change in culture that was pushed by various anti's. IMHO 2A supporters should be engaging in dialogue at every opportunity. With friends, family, neighbors, events anywhere possible. Not arguments but thoughtful discussions. There are many people that are just simply ill-informed and need to be informed.

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We need to do the same. Instead of waiting on a Judicial bailout as a primary plan, lets get grassroots and start changing the culture from the bottom up. Make firearms ownership a cool and trendy act, not a reporbate sign of criminal intent. Once the sheeple treat firearms like they do iPods and iPads, they'll be amenable to voting in favor of the RKBA. Once we've made guns a positive cultural trait, people will accept and own firearms in greater numbers-which will influence the voting booth, and then we can turn the tide effectively.
This is also entirely true. It was the tactic used to deteriorate our rights and can be used to stop the onslaught we're facing.

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Once we've made being a hoplophobe to be a sign of personal immaturity, their movement will die on the vine. We need to go beyond just taking people to the gun range-we need to get pro-gun media out there. Post fliers, make short movies, get the word about the RKBA into the mainstream. Put pro-gun activity on Facebook, make short independent films showing say , a horror movie where the herione pulls a Glock instead of getting killed by the masked bandit with a knife.
You're spot on here as well. Some mainstream media may be slow to come along but that's okay. Other media can spread the message. Even some yahoo articles lately have become more pro 2A. We need to read those articles and watch the media that supports 2A. When viewers are there more media will adopt a similar message. Btw, anyone can actually submit a yahoo article. Most of their articles are done by freelancers. We can be those freelancers.

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By changing the media culture from the ground up, we'll influence the will and perspective of the sheeple. Once the masses join our new Pro-Gun media bandwagon, the politicians will have no choice but to respect the Constitution. Get the trendy guys and girls with satchels,drama degrees and patchouli in the Starbucks lounge to back gun rights, and we solve this problem permanently.
This is entirely feasible. There are obstacles such as school indoctrination etc however, this can be overcome. People acclimate to things when they're regularly exposed to them.

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What will NOT work is sending angry emails to politicians who don't need your vote to stay in office. What will NOT work is believing blind obedience to a failed strategy will get a different result. The old plan's been done since the late 80s, and to what end?
I agree, no one should be sending "angry emails" that only reinforces their opinions. I disgaree that generally emailing and calling does not work. There are core anti's that will not listen however, there are fence sitting politicians that do listen to their base. They may not take up the cause but they do vote against gun control or at least abstain occasion. The courts have also been working. SF would virtually have no handguns or ammunition if not for litigation from pro 2A organizations. Many laws have been stopped. People just tend to forget that part.

IMHO exposure through facebook, youtube, yahoo articles etc. are a great resource that needs to be embraced. IMO this should be done in addition to current efforts not as a replacement. There are many pro 2A people that aren't comfortable volunteering, or calling their reps but that may be comfortable using media to get the message across. Having enough opportunities for people to contribute where their strength lies will help the cause. Even posters, calguns will consider submissions for posters to be used in it's efforts by anyone who submits them.

For all those that find this idea interesting and it something you may want to be a part of you don't have to wait. Each person can post stories on their facebook of instances that guns have saved lives or anything else pro 2A. You don't need anyones permission to just do it.

By the way Silver, it's good to have you in the fight.
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Old 09-01-2013, 11:06 PM
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We need to make short commercials of true stories where citizens successfully use a gun to defend themselves. There are millions of "armed citizen" encounters out there that we can use.

So, who has the film equipment to start this.
Well said and good idea.
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Old 09-02-2013, 12:00 AM
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The effect of "realistic" FPS games cannot be understated.

We already have an ENTIRE GENERATION obsessed with firearms rapidly aging. It is only a matter of time until they start having an effect. Right now, they are simply too young to matter.

The anti's know this. Why do you think they are trying so hard to ban violent videogames (heck, the NRA is HELPING THEM ALONG)?! Why do you think they are trying so hard to prevent videogame makers from using "real" looking firearms?

Games are already getting kids interested in real shooting sports. The ideas about making it "educational" and "safety first" blah blah blah will fail. The average kid knows "educational" and will avoid it.

Start with realism. Have the firearms act realistically.

Many games come with "difficultly" levels. Why not add a "CA" or "NY" difficulty which accurately models the laws of CA? Have the human players be restricted, but all his enemies can, of course, use whatever is available today.

Or, for the multiplayer games, give the player the option of choosing which mode of play to use.

Give them variants; have the "cosmetic restrictions" separate from the truly functional restrictions... game balance wise, of course, you'd have to tweak the incentive structure.
This is a pretty interesting notion. I think the game has to feature "average Joes" as the main characters; games like COD and Battlefield reinforce the notion that firearms are the realm of elite military commandos and not everyday citizens. I'm picturing a breakdown-of-society storyline, with the first level being a "tutorial" of sorts that takes place just as things start to go sideways. Armed bad guys break into the player-character's residence and he holes up behind a locked bedroom door, and the player has to correctly follow a sequence of button-presses based on on-screen cues within a certain length of time in order to successfully unlock his state-mandated gun safe. Once the safe is open he has to choose between a handgun with a neutered 10-round magazine, or a maglocked rifle with a neutered 10-round magazine. Maybe if the game designer is generous he can also pick a 12-gauge pump shotgun, but unlike in most FPS where the pump is automatically cycled after each shot, the player has to actually hit the reload button between shots to work the pump. Assuming the player survives, the amount of weapons and ammunition he can carry should be realistically capped (something like 1 handgun, 1 long gun, and 5-10 ten round mags - assuming he has his pockets filled to the brim), and he should have to complete certain in-game tasks in order for his character to acquire the skills to do things such as remove the mag lock, assemble a standard capacity magazine from parts, etc. The player should possibly also be forced to stop from time to time to re-fill his magazines, including struggling to get the 10th round in on 10-round mags because the tolerances were tight so as to avoid accidentally creating an 11-round magazine :P
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Old 09-02-2013, 12:07 AM
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I do this all the time at school and work. Educating my friends about firearms in a calm civilized way and not in the way of gun-nerds who make people feel like they have a problem like the average video game addict. Me and my friends are doing this all the time. But most importantly at the same time we are educating others about the Constitution as well. Taking them to the range is the next thing I do, and it doesn't hurt to take girls. Girls need to be on our team as well.
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Old 09-02-2013, 12:27 AM
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Here is an idea.

Get a big group together to hand out invitations to go target shooting for free. Could be a great promotional deal for area target ranges, imagine what they would have to pay for that kind of advertising.

It has to be totally free and include a set number of rounds on the card. Imagine the effect of having actually had fun shooting a gun for the first time, could totally change the way they look at it.

Remember that it has to be free to not be soliciting, and the cards have to have a statement about 'protecting rights' otherwise they could fine you for making sales without a business licence.
(you'll need to confirm laws before doing this).

I'm from FL so I can't help much.. But if this load of crap was falling in my backyard I'd be doing the above.
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Old 09-02-2013, 12:43 AM
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Here is an idea.

Get a big group together to hand out invitations to go target shooting for free. Could be a great promotional deal for area target ranges, imagine what they would have to pay for that kind of advertising.

It has to be totally free and include a set number of rounds on the card. Imagine the effect of having actually had fun shooting a gun for the first time, could totally change the way they look at it.

Remember that it has to be free to not be soliciting, and the cards have to have a statement about 'protecting rights' otherwise they could fine you for making sales without a business licence.
(you'll need to confirm laws before doing this).

I'm from FL so I can't help much.. But if this load of crap was falling in my backyard I'd be doing the above.
Considering how much money we send to the NRA, this is brilliant.
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Old 09-02-2013, 6:42 AM
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Originally Posted by csspecs View Post
Here is an idea.

Get a big group together to hand out invitations to go target shooting for free. Could be a great promotional deal for area target ranges, imagine what they would have to pay for that kind of advertising.

It has to be totally free and include a set number of rounds on the card. Imagine the effect of having actually had fun shooting a gun for the first time, could totally change the way they look at it.

Remember that it has to be free to not be soliciting, and the cards have to have a statement about 'protecting rights' otherwise they could fine you for making sales without a business licence.
(you'll need to confirm laws before doing this).

I'm from FL so I can't help much.. But if this load of crap was falling in my backyard I'd be doing the above.
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Old 09-02-2013, 7:27 AM
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Originally Posted by csspecs View Post
Here is an idea.

Get a big group together to hand out invitations to go target shooting for free. Could be a great promotional deal for area target ranges, imagine what they would have to pay for that kind of advertising.

It has to be totally free and include a set number of rounds on the card. Imagine the effect of having actually had fun shooting a gun for the first time, could totally change the way they look at it.

Remember that it has to be free to not be soliciting, and the cards have to have a statement about 'protecting rights' otherwise they could fine you for making sales without a business licence.
(you'll need to confirm laws before doing this).

I'm from FL so I can't help much.. But if this load of crap was falling in my backyard I'd be doing the above.
yeah, since you can't be here physically, how about putting some money where your mouth is, to implement your bright idea??

this fight must be more than just about guns, it needs to be about basic human rights to self preservation against any potential threats...
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Old 09-02-2013, 7:49 AM
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yeah, since you can't be here physically, how about putting some money where your mouth is, to implement your bright idea??

this fight must be more than just about guns, it needs to be about basic human rights to self preservation against any potential threats...

What would be sufficient funds to show I was putting my money where my mouth is?

PS, I'm a firearms magazine maker, who is working on an open source bottom loading fixed magazine. So I am working to help find solutions to the law as well.

Being in FL I'm able to work on solutions without legal issues.

I'm a business member on the Saiga-12 forums, so I'm not just some random guy behind a keyboard.

And yes this is about more then guns. One right is like another, if you can make modern firearms illegal then you set a precedent that modern items are not covered.
The 1st does not cover cell phones or emails (gee that sounds like the news)
The 4th does not cover wire tapping, or use of drones.
The 5th does not prevent use of truth serums or requiring forms that make you self incriminate.

Not a road anyone really wants to go down. The rights listed in the bill of rights are listed because in a time of fear we (people in general) would give them all up for a promise of safety.

Last edited by csspecs; 09-02-2013 at 7:56 AM..
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Old 09-02-2013, 4:03 PM
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Originally Posted by 1stLineGear View Post
We need to make short commercials of true stories where citizens successfully use a gun to defend themselves. There are millions of "armed citizen" encounters out there that we can use.

So, who has the film equipment to start this.
Half the people in this forum have the equipment.

Who has the millions of dollars to pay for teevee ads?
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Old 09-02-2013, 4:16 PM
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Originally Posted by csspecs View Post
Get a big group together to hand out invitations to go target shooting for free. Could be a great promotional deal for area target ranges, imagine what they would have to pay for that kind of advertising.

It has to be totally free and include a set number of rounds on the card. Imagine the effect of having actually had fun shooting a gun for the first time, could totally change the way they look at it.
This is actually an excellent idea. There are a few logistical issues, however, though I'm sure with some thought they could be overcome.

I host a monthly fun shoot on a private range I rent at Burro Canyon. We invite anyone we can think of, including politicians and press (though we haven't got any of them to show up yet). But every month we get two or three n00bs who have never handled a firearm, so we start them with .22s and by the end of the day they are shooting 12 gauge shotguns. We emphasize safety above all. It's fun and gratifying.

There are some problems. The first is that Burro Canyon is so far away from most folks, and also that it means giving up most of a Saturday for anyone who wants to come. What Brandon Combs and I have taken to calling a "Shooting Salon" might work better at a more accessible range such as Oak Tree. Another idea would be renting a private room at an indoor range (for those that rent private rooms and don't treat all their customers, especially n00bs, with contempt and suspicion).

Another problem is that we don't turn anyone away, so on some days we get as many as 14 people at the shoot. That's a lot of folks, which means a crowded firing line and not enough individual attention for all. That could maybe be solved with more volunteers. Maybe the cards you hand out have specific dates on them, and people have to sign up (perhaps on-line) to reserve a space (problem with this is if they don't pay money to keep their space - and we don't want them to pay for the shoot - many or most will blow off the shoot and keep out people who really wanted to go. Maybe the cards should read, "Free gun rental, ammunition and instruction for $5 or $10 sign-up fee").

Ammunition and guns aren't a problem; all you need is money for that. Cleaning ten or more guns afterwards IS a big problem.

There are other issues that would need to be worked out, aside from the big one of inviting complete strangers to come shoot with you. With all our shoots, even the n00bs are at least friends of friends.
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