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  #1  
Old 01-07-2008, 10:33 PM
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Default Subcompact 9's: Glock 26 vs. Kahr MK9 vs. Walther PPS

I feel the need for a subcompact 9mm pistol to round out my collection. I know the PPS isn't on the list yet, but hopefully it will be soon. Any thoughts on the pros/cons of these models?
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Old 01-07-2008, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by GeneralBacardi View Post
I know the PPS isn't on the list yet, but hopefully it will be soon.
I don't think it can, since it's lacking a magazine disconnect. I guess there's hope it's in the backlog, though.
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Old 01-07-2008, 10:46 PM
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I really like my Kahr PM9. I chose it over the Glock 26 due to the differences in thickness between the two. I'm very used to shooting Glocks and wanted something with the same feel. The G26 was just too thick to carry in a pocket. If the size doesn't bother you I'd say it's a coin toss and you'd be well served by both. I've had about 300 rounds through the PM9 without a malfunction, but IIRC Kahr recomends a 200 round break in period before everything smooths out.

I have no experience or opinion with the PPS.
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Old 01-07-2008, 10:54 PM
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In all honesty, I believe you left an important gun off your list. The SA XDSC9 is an excellent gun for ccw or shooting in general. I have carried mine for daily ccw use for 4yrs. It is a very accurate, well made and comfortable weapon to use. It has also gone thru a similar 20K round torture test like the Glock and did well.

I actually intended to buy a Glock subcompact, having never heard of the XD. I shot all of the Glock sc: 9mm, 40cal and 45. I limpwristed with all 3 and didn't even know what it was until the RO told me. I didn't like the grip feel, the lack of an ambi mag release (I'm lefty) and the mags.

I shot the 4" XD at the range and liked it, so I bought the SC. I like the additional safeties, the SS mags and the 1911 style grip and safety.

I'm not saying Glock is bad, just not for me. Yes, I'm a member of xdtalk.com and not glock talk, but no big deal. I think you should go to a range and shoot the XD; you might like it.

Plus, you can almost buy 2 XDs or an XD and a Glock for the price of a Kahr right.
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Old 01-07-2008, 10:59 PM
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i 2nd the look at the xd9sc... i have the service model and want to purchase the xd9sc in the future.

if you're only looking at the ones in your post, i'd say go with the glock... it'll go bang everytime you pull the trigger (important in a ccw) and there are a plethora of accessories for it, much more than the other two.

but after saying that... get the xd9sc... great pistol (if it's anything like my xd9 service)
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Old 01-07-2008, 11:12 PM
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I really like the Kahr, because as a member of the Unification Church, I believe we should support our fellow members. As a proud Moonie, I feel good about my purchase, however, all that aside, it's a really good gun... AND MADE IN AMERICA, BABY!!



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Old 01-07-2008, 11:58 PM
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The Kahr MK9 is heavy. I concur with the PM9 for the best ca-legal size/weight package.
I had a G26, it was still thick and blocky to me, and not much easier to conceal than a glock 19 with a big sacrifice in ergonomics. I sold it and bought a second G19 instead.

I had my Kahr P9 shaved down to take a PM9/MK9 mag, since the P9 COvert isn't available here- that is the perfect carry package, IMO. The extra slide length doesn't affect concealability, but feels more reliable in my gut, IMO.

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Old 01-08-2008, 3:28 AM
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Default Kahr MK9

I haven't owned the G26 or Walther PPS, but the Kahr MK9 is an excellent gun. I've had one for about 8 months and it has been perfectly reliable through about 600 rounds and is surprisingly accurate for a small gun. The smooth trigger pull, good sights and weight (all steel, 24 ounces) make it easy to shoot well.

The gun also conceals very easily IWB because it is thin - 0.90 inches across the slide and about 0.95 inches across the grip with stock grip panels. I have worn it in a Comp-Tac 2 o'clock appendix carry holster and it is invisible with a reasonable cover garment.

Here it is compared to 2 other small guns, a Colt Defender and a S&W 642 revolver, as well as a photo in the holster:



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Old 01-08-2008, 5:50 AM
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Its really not fair to compare the glock and the kahr. Although at first blush they seem rougnly similar, in actuality, they fall on either side of a sharp line of demarcation. The kahr conceals places the glock cant. The glock has a round capacity and shootability, that just cant exist in a gun as small as the kahr.
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Old 01-08-2008, 6:32 AM
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I would go with a G26 or G27 personally, but I hear great things about Kahr's. I would stay away from the XD for carry due to potential rust (even with the new treatment), lack of direct SA parts purchase and to me a bulkier feel. IMO.
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Old 01-08-2008, 7:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralBacardi View Post
I feel the need for a subcompact 9mm pistol to round out my collection. I know the PPS isn't on the list yet, but hopefully it will be soon. Any thoughts on the pros/cons of these models?
PPS - N/A to CA yet. At $700+, the more expensive of the 3. Thin, extremely concealable (about the size of a PPK) and light due to its polymer frame.

MK9 - Heavy as it's made of steel. Thin, very concealable and the with right holster, an excellent pocket carry. At $550+ to $600+, kinda pricy. Reliable pistol from what I heard.

G26 - Thicker than the other two pistols, but has more round capacity. Proven pistol that has been around 13 years. Due to its thickness, not exactly great for pocket carry unless you have big pockets. You can find it cheaper than the PPS or the MK9.
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  #12  
Old 01-08-2008, 7:42 AM
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springfield XD sub compact 9mm!!
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Old 01-08-2008, 9:40 AM
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I personally don't like the glock26. I like everything about it, but when I hold it, I have trouble releasing the magazine without changing my grip. I had no problem with the walther p99 compact or xd9 3". You're missing two other great guns though.

The S&W MP compact and the HK P7psp (or p7m8).

Last edited by Kelvrick; 01-08-2008 at 9:44 AM..
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  #14  
Old 01-08-2008, 10:44 AM
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I have a G26 and use a Galco Walkabout IWB rig. It will work in a Desantis pocket holster if you have pants with large pockets. I like the G26 because it will hold 10-rounds. I do not have the Kahr.
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  #15  
Old 01-08-2008, 12:12 PM
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If you are one of those guys who likes Glocks go with the 26. Cheaper, very reliable, light. Only downside is the thickness - but then again you do have 10 rounds instead of the others which I assume are less.
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Old 01-08-2008, 12:37 PM
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I still have my Kahr MK9, but I'll be putting it on consignment to get a down payment on a Colt Defender. I've had good customer service from Kahr, but I'm not firing any more rounds from the SECOND SLIDE they replaced after the barrel shroud cracked just under the barrel. It's surprisingly reliable with very few failures, but I need to practice at the range with a pistol I'm going to be depending on. I'm not sure Kahr designed this pistol to be putting a lot of lead downrange. I ran around 800 rounds thru it. The first slide they replaced cracked again after about 200 rounds. My new Colt will need some of the modifications shown in the picture above, but many dealers claim it's the compact that gets returned to the factory the least. I'm also a big fan of .45ACP for personal defense. I was impressed with the reviews of Walther's new PPS. It will probably be the 9mm I spend my money on when it gets CA certified.
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Old 01-08-2008, 5:50 PM
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Quote:
I would stay away from the XD for carry due to potential rust (even with the new treatment), lack of direct SA parts purchase and to me a bulkier feel. IMO.
Thomasanelson, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about insofar as the rust issue. Yes, there were some reported problems on the first generation XDs, though as I said mine is 4yrs old and I have never had a problem.

The finish that is on the new generation that came out in 06 IIRC, is the same as the one that is on the glock, just by a different name.

As far as the parts purchase; as I understand it, there was some type of legal problem and of course the lawyers became involved. But having said this, there are plenty of parts one can buy from SA without having to send the gun in. You might want to go to xdtalk.com and do a search. You will be enlightened.

Oh and as far as the grip, that's a personal thing. I found the Glock to have a bulkier feel, plus the 1911 handgrip style and safety of the XD suited my hand better. YVMV.

I just suggested the XD because I felt the OP would have an opportunity to consider another outstanding weapon; one that is growing in popularity.

Last edited by retired; 01-08-2008 at 6:51 PM..
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Old 01-08-2008, 7:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffM View Post
I really like my Kahr PM9. I chose it over the Glock 26 due to the differences in thickness between the two. I'm very used to shooting Glocks and wanted something with the same feel. The G26 was just too thick to carry in a pocket. If the size doesn't bother you I'd say it's a coin toss and you'd be well served by both. I've had about 300 rounds through the PM9 without a malfunction, but IIRC Kahr recomends a 200 round break in period before everything smooths out.

I have no experience or opinion with the PPS.
+1 on the PM9. I love it. It is easy to use and very accurate. It is a little on the pricey side, but in my opinion it is well worth it.
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Old 01-08-2008, 8:28 PM
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What is thicker, glock or xd? the sub xd feels very good, but Im not shure if it will concele as well as the G26 due to thickness.
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Old 01-09-2008, 7:51 AM
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Good thread. I'm also considering a Kahr.

What's holding me back are the following:

1. Kahr is pricey - a couple of hundred more than a Glock - but doesn't have the bullet-proof reputation Glock has.

2. The slide is very, very difficult for me to rack on the Kahr - you've got to deal with slide velocity in a short barrelled, lightweight slide pistol somehow, and it defaults to a stiffer spring.

3. I already have a Glock 36 on order, and it is also thin, albeit not as thin as the Kahr. It's cheaper. And it's reliable.

I am still interested in the Kahr because they seem so well made, Glock doesn't make a single stack 9mm (the 26 is a fat little pistol), and the trigger is great - a long smooth pull that isn't so heavy. Glock's trigger makes me cautious - Safe-T-Block, NY1 trigger modification, or unchambered.

It would be used as a bedside gun, pocketed to investigate any "bumps in the night." So I am trying to find the best balance between safety and readiness, and also have to take into account our young children. So far unchambered seems safest...so that swings me one way then the other. The Kahr is safer to carry in a pocket thanks to the DAO operation, but I can't keep it unchambered; the Glock can be racked easily, but once racked, requires perfect trigger discipline and should either be carried or holstered, not pocketed due to the easy to activate trigger (unless I keep a Safe-T-Blok in it).
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Old 01-09-2008, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1911A-1Fan View Post
I am still interested in the Kahr because they seem so well made, Glock doesn't make a single stack 9mm (the 26 is a fat little pistol), and the trigger is great - a long smooth pull that isn't so heavy. Glock's trigger makes me cautious - Safe-T-Block, NY1 trigger modification, or unchambered.

It would be used as a bedside gun, pocketed to investigate any "bumps in the night." So I am trying to find the best balance between safety and readiness, and also have to take into account our young children. So far unchambered seems safest...so that swings me one way then the other. The Kahr is safer to carry in a pocket thanks to the DAO operation, but I can't keep it unchambered; the Glock can be racked easily, but once racked, requires perfect trigger discipline and should either be carried or holstered, not pocketed due to the easy to activate trigger (unless I keep a Safe-T-Blok in it).
If you are that worried about shooting yourself get an XD or a manual saftey gun. Putting a glock in a pocket isnt that great but adding extra unsafe safteys wont help.
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Old 01-09-2008, 10:53 PM
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G26 is best pocket gun ever made
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Old 01-10-2008, 7:50 AM
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Not wanting to hijack or anything, but my local gunshop said that all the Kahr's have a life expectancy of less than 10K rounds.
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Old 01-10-2008, 8:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timberland View Post
If you are that worried about shooting yourself get an XD or a manual saftey gun. Putting a glock in a pocket isnt that great but adding extra unsafe safteys wont help.
I don't think an XD is any "safer" than a Glock (assuming both are chambered) - the grip safety only comes into play in two situations: while holstering, in case anything jams the trigger; or if the gun is rattling around in a bag, without even a minimalist holster (like the one that comes with it) to cover the trigger guard.

Take a look at the Saf-T-Blok for the Glock - my friend and I both have one and it is VERY easy to disengage, unless you simply forget about it:

http://members.aol.com/saftblok/

(In fact there is a beautiful picture of what looks like a Glock 26 with one inserted on the home page)

There is also the Comminolli safety:

http://www.cominolli.com/ourproducts.html (home page of maker)
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/sto...20FOR%20GLOCK~
(online store that sells it)
http://www.cominolli.com/images/AmericanHGart2.pdf (article on it)

And the new "trigger safety" from Lone Wolf, which appears simpler than the Cominolli (at least it should be much simpler for an amorer to install, since it involves a simple parts swap, only trigger for new one):

http://www.lonewolfdist.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=4783

As a pure "range gun," or when carried "offensively" by SWAT teams and military, I have no problem with the Glock/XD/Smith & Wesson "ready to fire" systems (no separate safety). In fact, I think that is the way to go - training and the holster are the "safety" and they have to be ready to go instantly (we've come a long way from WWI and WWII with unchambered 1911's tucked into awkward flap style hosters - talk about a side-arm that is more placebo than tool!).

But in "defensive" situations a safety can be invaluable - consider that about 25% of police deaths are caused by their own guns, snatched away from them (the number used to be higher, but positive retention holsters and better recovery training seems to be helping). If that happens to police, what about us? I'd rather have a safety that, according to the article linked above, gives me an extra 17 seconds or so (if not more) while a felon tries to unlock the gun. If I am surprised while asleep and he sees my defensive pistol, I'd rather know it's NOT going to be deployed by him instantly (in the Comminolli tests, the safety added about .157 seconds to deployment time by the trained operator, but safeties in general deter a felon by about 17 seconds - too many styles and varieties of safety for them to have quicker reactions).

Let's say you have a CCW license and carry your defensive firearm in an IWB holster. What if you end up in a wrestling match and your pistol flies out? A safety is good to have (and your wife and adult children should be trained in its operation in case they retrieve the gun while you are defending).

So WHY add a safety to a Glock, instead of buying a pistol that comes with one? Simply because Glock is one of the best pistols out there. If a minimally intrusive safety is available (from Saf-T-Blok to Lone Wolf "in the trigger" to Comminolli "in the frame") it's at least worth considering. Spending hours trying to understand California gun laws, while ignoring the accessory safety/built in safety issue, is the worst form of denial. I'm not saying one view or another should prevail, or heaven forbid the legislature should step in as they have with mandated magazine safeties, but as good gun owners I think we should distribute information like this so people know the option is out there.

Having a safety would also allow be to consider chambering a round for home defense, whereas now I am reluctant to have one chambered. It would also give me an intermediate step between "noise downstairs, chamber a round" and a chambered pistol with a fully active, light and medium short pull trigger. Then I can decide, based on the circumstances, whether to have a safety on or off. BTW, the Glock designed and manufactured NY1 trigger spring addresses my concern with a relatively light trigger pull on stock Glocks without in any way interfering with Glock operation - it just bumps up trigger pull from 5 pounds to 8 pounds - don't confuse it with the NY2 trigger spring, which goes to 12 pounds!) while I go to investigate the sound. That's a nice little extra margin of safety for a gun grabbed out of a possibly deep sleep for defensive purposes. I agree that 5.5 pounds in a medium short trigger is safe enough for officers are duty, who are presumably awake and not groggy, but for a nightstand gun (as opposed to a CCW gun or range gun) the slight increase in trigger pull weight might be worth having. (Which is why I like the Kahr trigger, long, smooth, and medium heavy.)

Finally, as Comminolli points out, having a safety device makes chambering a round a little safer. My friend's girl friend actually discharged his Glock accidentally while chambering a round at the range, because she had forgotten trigger discipline and had her finger in the trigger guard while racking the slide, and her grip tightened as part of the racking.

BTW, I think it's ironic that the gun community, in it's face to the outside world, has been sheepish about admitting that guns, for most people, are about self-defense and not about hunting. Thus the insistence on crisp, light trigger pulls, when a longer, slightly heavier trigger pull is often better for dealing with home invasions. I hope younger shooters will stand up for the Second Amendment rights more in the future, than I did in my own youth - so called "black guns" have been outlawed nationwide in the past and still are in California, for no other reason than "they have no 'legitimate' hunting purpose." Even though they are outstanding self-defense weapons, much better than the traditional shotgun imho. The same misguided fear of "self defense" lead to "low capacity" magazine restrictions, when "standard capacity" was invented around 1900 by John Browning. What's next - restriction to single shot derringers? End of rant!

Stuff happens. It's worth thinking about it. The best thing about the rash of accidental discharges with Glocks, was that most of them happened during holstering and no bystanders got shot.
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Old 01-10-2008, 9:02 AM
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I've got an XD9 subcompact, a PM9, and a variety of smaller caliber mouse guns, and have been shooting a friend's PPK/S. Of all of them, the PM9 is far and away the best for me for slim, small, and accurate. Mine's been very reliable, but you don't usually put a ton of rounds through a gun like this. The XD9 is the next best, IMO, but is much fatter. No problems with rust on it. I don't like Glocks and got rid of my only one, so no feedback there.

That said, for a bedside gun, I'd recommend something larger and more controllable, since there's no real reason to have a bedside gun be tiny. If you're worried about safety, get a SIG or something similar with a decocker. Chamber a round, decock, and you've got that long DA first pull.

I keep my home defense handguns chambered at all times, as you can't always count on being able to work the action in a tight situation, and I leave them hammer down for that long DA first pull to avoid stupid mistakes like stepping on the cat's tail. Same with a safety - I shoot too many different guns and can't count on my muscle memory to work the safety in an adrenaline rush, so I don't use them. Always practice trigger discipline, and it becomes natural.

If Sigs agree with you, something like a P239 or the slimmer fullsize 9mm (whichever that is - P229?) would be a good bet.
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Old 01-11-2008, 1:22 AM
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1911A-1Fan I agree with your stance in some regards, not many people consider a gun take away, but I saw a video of a robery where the store owner managed to draw first but coudnt get off his saftey and was shot 4 or 6 times, by robber, he lived due to a horrible shooter, but that image always scares me.
~The best saftey for a gun take away is the mag disconect, but only if you can eject the mag intime.
~If a noise is bad enough to make you wake up, chances are youll wake "up quick" its a survival instinct inherited from our tribal ancestors.
I said XD due to your idea of pocket carry, I wont judge which pocket, whear, or when, but lacking the spring out saftey gizmo, the XD is better suited with the grip saftey for that type of carry.
As for the hard trigger pull, I have reacuring nightmares about not having the hand stregnth to pull a bad trigger in that kind of senario(maby sub-conchious preformance anxeity), its sily but Iv had the same bad dream more than once, and I relive it when I feel a bad trigger(I partly solved it by buying a PA-63 with a smooth but verry heavy pull, consider it therapy,).
And since im talking of things that freak me out, Im not fully comfortable with loaded chambers, besides unless you always check somone may have cleared the chamber, so you may as well rack the slide. Ok later lets discuss my fear of seals.
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Old 01-11-2008, 1:34 AM
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Due to the fact that the pps is not available in CA yet, it seems like the discussion is revolving around the Glock vs Kahr.

I am surprised (and a little ashamed at not offering it earlier myself) that no one has given the most obvious and correct answer. Get both!

That way, you can shoot the heck out of the Glock, carry it when you can in cooler weather or when investigating "bumps in the night" etc, and carry the Kahr when needing more concealablility.
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Old 01-11-2008, 11:54 PM
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G26 is best pocket gun ever made


ROTFLMAO!!!!!!
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Old 01-12-2008, 7:09 AM
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Another vote for the G26, great little gun.
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Old 01-12-2008, 8:08 AM
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Not wanting to hijack or anything, but my local gunshop said that all the Kahr's have a life expectancy of less than 10K rounds.
I think he's confusing kahrs and keltec's. Keltec's are made cheep like that. Kahr's are as stoutly constructed as any production pistol on the shelf.
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Old 01-12-2008, 8:27 AM
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It helps to analyze these pros and cons and then look at the guns again in person.

Last night my friend, his wife, and I visited City Arms and checked out the Smith & Wesson M&P compact 9; the Glock 26, and the XD9 SC (subcompact). All were thick and clunky. The M&P felt the best in my hand, just a perfect length of grip; the XD felt good, but I didn't like the extended magazine; and the Glock had an incredibly short grip, a true "2 finger" grip.

If the M&P had been invented first, it's the one I would take. It definitely feels better in hand than the other two, and it shows thoughtful design, as evidenced by the magazine design - the last two rounds are in single stack mode, so the round isn't coming up to the mag lips at an angle as in older designs.

But Glock has been around a long time and is just too well proven not to give the nod to as top choice. It's the law of large numbers - with a gun, it's better to buy once they have made a LOT of them and a LOT of reports are back in. Plus, what's not to like about the Glock? It works...it works...you get used to the trigger quickly, and the single dot front, white bracket rear sight set up is great, much better than other makers' 3 dot systems.

The XD does improve on the Glock in several areas, as many writers have noted, but it doesn't have a 30 year history with millions and millions made, and in the hands of active, abusive shooters (i.e., LEO's).

None of these pistols is as slim as I would like. But the Glock 36 may satisfy that concern, when mine comes in.
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Old 01-12-2008, 8:35 AM
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If you're looking for a bedside gun. I'd suggest a full size or compact model, not a sub-compact. I own and shoot mostly pinky dangler pistols, and I dont care who you are, you'll always shoot better with a full sized grip. The ergonomic advantages are simply unavoidable regardless of your level of training and familiarity.

Aside from "just because", the only reason to have a PM9, or MK9 or a 26/27, is for a deep concealment carry gun (I'm talking about pocket carry, thunderwear, ankle carry, etc. Even as a ccw gun for carry on the belt these subs are smaller than they need to be and suffer performance wise because of it). The full and compact sized counterparts to those guns will always be more reliable, have higher capacity, and shoot better with less practice.

If you like glock, a G19 or 17 in a fanny pack holster, stocked with a couple extra mags, a surefire, pepper spray, and your old cellphone kept on a charger is a great bedside kit. You can don all that gear in seconds no matter what you're wearing or not wearing to answer a call. If you have security issues you can stuff the whole enchilada in a quick access lock box.

Also, FWIW, the only real safety is training. Whether its gun that comes with a safety or some sort of after market device, it doesnt make a spits worth of difference if you dont know where not to point it and when not to have your finger on the trigger. Without basic safety skills, a manual safety nothing more than an EXTREMELY dangerous and false sense of security.

Also, I think the safe-t-block is the worst of the lot. I dont care who you are, the fact that you have to bend over and pick that thing out of the gravel at the range with every repetition means you're going to do less practice repetitions that if you didnt use it. Secondly, that block has to be pushed out before your support hand mates with the gun or you risk fouling the trigger with that thing floating around loose. This means that you'll be training yourself to engage your trigger finger in the vicinity of the trigger very early on in the draw stroke. Most people will be mating the week hand long before the gun is on target. So either you'll be compromising your draw by bringing in the support hand late your you'll be teaching your trigger finger a very dangerous habit, dangerously early in the draw stroke. Thirdly, the block is something that will likely become misplaced at some point in your life. If you're actually depending on it for safety, you're in trouble.....but then if you're not depending on it for safe gun handling what's the point of having it in the first place.
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Old 01-12-2008, 8:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wulf View Post
I think he's confusing kahrs and keltec's. Keltec's are made cheep like that. Kahr's are as stoutly constructed as any production pistol on the shelf.
I'm not so sure he's confused. While it's true the Kahr MK9 is "stoutly constructed", it's also possible it has a fundamental design problem (The ramped barrel feature?). As I mentioned previously on this thread, I've had 2 slides replaced by Kahr because of cracked barrel shrouds after only 800 rounds. My take on the MK9 is: break it in to make sure it's dependable, clean it and carry it or keep in your nite stand and forget about taking it to the range much. Good gun; just has limitations. I'm trading mine in for a Colt Defender ASAP.
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Old 01-12-2008, 10:06 AM
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I've got at least 2k through mine and all its needed was a recoil spring. I don't feel bashful about shooting it as often as I want.
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Old 01-12-2008, 2:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wulf View Post
If you're looking for a bedside gun. I'd suggest a full size or compact model, not a sub-compact. I own and shoot mostly pinky dangler pistols, and I dont care who you are, you'll always shoot better with a full sized grip. The ergonomic advantages are simply unavoidable regardless of your level of training and familiarity.

Aside from "just because", the only reason to have a PM9, or MK9 or a 26/27, is for a deep concealment carry gun (I'm talking about pocket carry, thunderwear, ankle carry, etc. Even as a ccw gun for carry on the belt these subs are smaller than they need to be and suffer performance wise because of it). The full and compact sized counterparts to those guns will always be more reliable, have higher capacity, and shoot better with less practice.

If you like glock, a G19 or 17 in a fanny pack holster, stocked with a couple extra mags, a surefire, pepper spray, and your old cellphone kept on a charger is a great bedside kit. You can don all that gear in seconds no matter what you're wearing or not wearing to answer a call. If you have security issues you can stuff the whole enchilada in a quick access lock box.

Also, FWIW, the only real safety is training. Whether its gun that comes with a safety or some sort of after market device, it doesnt make a spits worth of difference if you dont know where not to point it and when not to have your finger on the trigger. Without basic safety skills, a manual safety nothing more than an EXTREMELY dangerous and false sense of security.

Also, I think the safe-t-block is the worst of the lot. I dont care who you are, the fact that you have to bend over and pick that thing out of the gravel at the range with every repetition means you're going to do less practice repetitions that if you didnt use it. Secondly, that block has to be pushed out before your support hand mates with the gun or you risk fouling the trigger with that thing floating around loose. This means that you'll be training yourself to engage your trigger finger in the vicinity of the trigger very early on in the draw stroke. Most people will be mating the week hand long before the gun is on target. So either you'll be compromising your draw by bringing in the support hand late your you'll be teaching your trigger finger a very dangerous habit, dangerously early in the draw stroke. Thirdly, the block is something that will likely become misplaced at some point in your life. If you're actually depending on it for safety, you're in trouble.....but then if you're not depending on it for safe gun handling what's the point of having it in the first place.
Great post. Hadn't thought about "learning bad habits by poking into the trigger guard to dislodge the Safe-T-Blok" I'm going to have to give that one some thought.

Good idea about keep those "survival essentials" in a fanny pack on the nightstand.

What do you think about the magazine safety on the Smith & Wesson M&P? Would that enable me to keep the gun safely chambered on the nightstand, if the magazine is "out." I think it is easier (but I could be wrong) to insert a magazine than to rack the slide.

BTW, the Saf-T-Blok also has a little whole so you can use a small combination lock to take the gun out of commission altogether. Worlds smallest gun lock.
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Old 01-12-2008, 5:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1911A-1Fan View Post
What do you think about the magazine safety on the Smith & Wesson M&P? Would that enable me to keep the gun safely chambered on the nightstand, if the magazine is "out." I think it is easier (but I could be wrong) to insert a magazine than to rack the slide.
I'm not a big fan of mag safety's; perhaps on a cops gun, as a quick way to sterilize a gun during a gun grab, but for the civilian, its a feature of dubious value. I would not not buy a gun because it had one, but as a feature, its lower on my priority list than just about everything else. The gun is either loaded or its not; you're either handling a loaded gun or you're not. Trying to define some middle ground of "loaded but safe", and having some special level of handling or storage permissiveness associated with it is asking for trouble.

There's a thousand ways to game safety and security of firearms. But bottom line, its either locked up in such a fashion as you have no worries about security, or its not secured. Likewise, you either have the skill and discipline to carry a loaded gun in your hand or you do not.
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Old 01-12-2008, 5:44 PM
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I own a G26 and it is kinda thick then again I'm only 5'4 but I do like this firearm a lot it's very realiable.
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Old 01-12-2008, 5:48 PM
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IMHO, bedside guns need to be big, not small. In addition, they need to have controls that are extremely simple. When you hear breaking glass at 0400, you don't have time to mess around.

I like the alarm company commercial that's on TV now. Comrade wife and I both laugh when the yuppie tells his wife "You want me to check?" and goes empty handed. When the bad guy kicked the door in, my wife was roflhao when she saw the commercial, saying "If that was you honey, that'd be one dead mofo."

My choice for my bedside HD pistol is my HKP7. Just squeeze and shoot.
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Old 01-12-2008, 6:59 PM
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Maybe the OP should have both. I personally am also looking for the subcompacts, but I'd never have it as my bedside gun. Thats what the p226 is for, but when I'm moving about, I'd like something nice and small.
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