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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 08-27-2013, 1:01 PM
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Default POF P308 vs. M1A M21 tactical

So what do all you fine people think. P308 with a 16" barrel or the M1A M21 tactical? The primary purpose will be for hunting, mostly pig and deer, and also for plinking. I'm in Texas so I don't have to worry about the bullet button issue Naturally, I'm looking for lightweight, accuracy, reliability. But I also want it to be good looking.

I would also like to know how POF is as far as being able to change out different parts on the upper as far as the barrel or the forearm. I know they use some proprietary parts on their upper, and I don't know how well their parts interface with aftermarket parts.

Thanks for all your help, it is much appreciated.
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Old 08-27-2013, 1:05 PM
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I don't think either of those classify as light weight. If you want light weight get a bolt gun hunting rifle in 308.
Now if you must have a semi maybe a pof with an 18" barrel
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Old 08-27-2013, 1:07 PM
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Sorry, I also want semi- auto... Im going to start working on a lightweight bolt gun when I get some more funds together.
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Old 08-27-2013, 1:09 PM
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You can't change out anything on the pof , it's already the best you can buy !
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Old 08-27-2013, 1:13 PM
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Why a semi for hunting? Bolt would be lighter, allow you load quietly, less things to hang up on brush. And probably cost way less than a semi.
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Old 08-27-2013, 1:29 PM
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I want a semi for hog hunting and plinking. Theres a huge pig problem and it doesn't hurt to have a quick follow up shot.
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Old 08-27-2013, 2:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcastaneda View Post
So what do all you fine people think. P308 with a 16" barrel or the M1A M21 tactical?
Why the M21 tactical, why not the 16.25" Crazy Horse M14 type SEI?
You may not want the exact set-up pictured, but it is more comparable to the 16" POF.






My 16.25" Crazy Horse M14 type SEI set-up.


Last edited by H2O MAN; 08-27-2013 at 2:25 PM..
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Old 08-27-2013, 3:20 PM
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I really like that top one... Aaaarrrggghhh... So many choices!!!!!!
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Old 08-27-2013, 4:06 PM
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The Smith and Wesson 308 ARs are much lighter and cheaper and will kill pigs and deer just as well.
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Old 08-27-2013, 4:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cypriss32 View Post
I don't think either of those classify as light weight. If you want light weight get a bolt gun hunting rifle in 308.
Now if you must have a semi maybe a pof with an 18" barrel
My POF308 (14.5 barrel) comes in at 8lbs 4 oz.. without sights.

But with the fluted barrel it's not front heavy and has a nice balance. Also, the components are really nicely made.. the BCG is like an art piece and the roller cam is nice.

The carrier is proprietary, but he bolt is standard. The piston system is easy to take apart and clean. Also, the trigger is comes with is very nice.

Overall it's a very nice system.. I've only shot it to break it in, but I've heard they run cool and are pretty accurate.

Some people *****ed about the raised rail, I come some Troy micros and I don't even notice the higher rail. Still considering an optic.. Votex Viper
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Old 08-27-2013, 4:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Chewbaca View Post
You can't change out anything on the pof , it's already the best you can buy !
Well, it's not that you can't change anything, but it would be silly to change some things like the trigger since it's already awsome.

I'm changing out the ambi safety to a BAD one so it's thinner on the right side.
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Old 08-28-2013, 7:11 AM
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If I were to change anything on the POF, it would be either the barrel, to get a lighter one, or it would be the forearm, again to get a lighter one.

From what I've heard, pof's are tack drivers, even with shorter barrels, so I don't think I need a longer barrel. But if I do, it's nice to know that I can change to whatever barrel/ length I want or need.
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Old 08-28-2013, 7:12 AM
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Also, does anyone have any info on how accurate out of the box m1a's are. I've always wondered that, and its particularly important now ahaha
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Old 08-28-2013, 8:09 AM
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Your two choices can be characterized as accuracy vs. dependability. Both will do the job your want. The POF will be more accurate but will need more cleaning and will suffer from the occasional ftf. The M1A will go bang every time you pull the trigger, but be much less accurate than the POF. Expect 2-5 moa out of an M1A depending on model, and .75-2 Moa out of a POF. Match ammo can and will make a difference with accuracy. Another thing to consider is if you are looking for magnified optics. If so, get the POF. M1A's and optics have major issues. Google it and see what I'm talking about.
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Old 08-28-2013, 9:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcastaneda View Post
Also, does anyone have any info on how accurate out of the box m1a's are. I've always wondered that, and its particularly important now ahaha
Accurate enough for deer or pig but not typically accurate enough to where you'll be proud of your group size. Something like the Scout M1A with a Basset Low Picatinny scope mount would be a good setup for a hunting rig.

ARs with their free floated barrels are always better out of the box shooters on average. Just read up on range reports even the cheap DPMS and S&W carbines shoot near MOA with match ammo or handloads.

PS - I like the POF and HOGAN 308 rifles a lot. I watched a HOGAN 18" 308 go for 1900bucks no sniper's hide awhile back and it killed me not having the dough for it.
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Old 08-28-2013, 9:09 AM
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Default I just can't see...

...lugging either weapon around on a long day hunting. Especially in the Texas sun and humidity.

For light weight hunting, have you thought about a lever gun?

-hanko
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Old 08-28-2013, 9:22 AM
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Lugging around an M1A isn't fun...I just tried this earlier this year since my M1A was the only thing in my safe that I could use in a pig hunt. My setup is a standard model with an Ultimak rail and Leupold variable scout scope. The Ultimak makes for low profile rail (no cheek weld was needed for me) and the setup I had was okay for quick target acquisition but the rifle was pretty heavy so being "quick" to aim was sort of a joke and I ended up mostly posting up instead of walking around flushing out the pigs.

Accuracy with the newer M1As tends to vary, some guys say theirs is accurate and others haven't gotten very good accuracy...sounds like a QA issue imho. (This is from my own search results on the M14Forum).
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Old 08-28-2013, 10:23 AM
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pof 308. love mine

great gun straight out of the box. just add sights and your g2g
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Old 08-28-2013, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcastaneda View Post
If I were to change anything on the POF, it would be either the barrel, to get a lighter one, or it would be the forearm, again to get a lighter one.

From what I've heard, pof's are tack drivers, even with shorter barrels, so I don't think I need a longer barrel. But if I do, it's nice to know that I can change to whatever barrel/ length I want or need.
Change the barrel from the beautiful flutted one that's on there? And I'm not seeing the weight on the forearm either.. except the heat sink, which is heavy but serves a good purpose.
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Old 08-28-2013, 11:22 AM
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I was also looking at the POF a few weeks ago. For a few hundred more, I got the LMT MWS. You can change barrels and calibers in less than three minutes. The rifle has a great rep.
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Old 08-28-2013, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by rcastaneda View Post

Also, does anyone have any info on how accurate out of the box m1a's are.
1.25-2.0 MOA with decent ammo and a standard stock.
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Old 08-28-2013, 11:47 AM
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A long, but informative video review.

"Fear Not You Have An M1A"
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Old 08-28-2013, 11:49 AM
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Old 08-28-2013, 12:35 PM
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For hog hunting, a cheap AK would work great. Cheap ammo, cheap red dot and a 100rd drum and you can get a whole gang of piggys. The $2,000 you save can go towards a 308 AR type rifle.
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Old 08-28-2013, 12:57 PM
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Lol +1 to JamesY.

However if you go with either the M1A or the POF just be sure to add an X-Products 50 round drum. 50 rounds of 308 should do the trick.
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Old 08-28-2013, 1:00 PM
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... be sure to add an X-Products 50 round drum.
+1

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Old 08-28-2013, 2:34 PM
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I was also looking at the POF a few weeks ago. For a few hundred more, I got the LMT MWS. You can change barrels and calibers in less than three minutes. The rifle has a great rep.
LMT MWS was 2300 when it first came out so technically cheaper than the POF rifles.

Not sure why the OP wants to spend 3000 on a rifle to hunt hogs though, nevermind why he's picked out the springfield M21 which is boat-anchor heavy for a hunting rifle.
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Old 08-28-2013, 2:36 PM
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So it looks like everyone is leaning towards the POF?

While I said that I was looking at the m21 tactical, I more or less meant that I wanted an m1a that was configured like that rifle. It could be the NM m1a or the super match, but the goal would just be to have either rifle with a longer range scope, and a bipod. Basically, if any of the other m1a's are nearly as accurate as the pof, that would still be in the running.

Not sure if that changes anything, but I thought it would be good to add.
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Old 08-28-2013, 2:36 PM
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So it looks like everyone is leaning towards the POF?

While I said that I was looking at the m21 tactical, I more or less meant that I wanted an m1a that was configured like that rifle. It could be the NM m1a or the super match, but the goal would just be to have either rifle with a longer range scope, and a bipod. Basically, if any of the other m1a's are nearly as accurate as the pof, that would still be in the running.

Not sure if that changes anything, but I thought it would be good to add.
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Old 08-28-2013, 2:47 PM
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So it looks like everyone is leaning towards the POF?
No, not everyone.
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Old 08-28-2013, 3:05 PM
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Pretty much everyone*
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Old 08-28-2013, 3:28 PM
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My POF308 (14.5 barrel) comes in at 8lbs 4 oz.. without sights.
Wow yours is ALOT lighter then I remember my 18" being..........
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Old 08-28-2013, 6:14 PM
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Wow yours is ALOT lighter then I remember my 18" being..........
You can see the weight here.. 8.5 empty..

And I got mine for $2500.. So far I really like it

Specs on thier site:
http://www.pof-usa.com/14.5-p308-black.html
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Old 08-28-2013, 6:26 PM
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I have a POF with a 16" barrel and it is far more accurate than I am. Easily accurate enough to something the size of a pig except at extreme ranges. But ... it's heavy at around 9+lb loaded without any optics.

I have an M1A Loaded with a 22" barrel. Again more accurate than I am but probably not as accurate as the POF. I think it's about the same weight (not sure) but much nicer looking - to me anyway.

Both of these guns are HEAVY especially in the heat.

I know you want a semi-auto but you really should consider a bolt gun. A little practice and you you'll be very good with follow up shots. The bolt action is very pleasurable as well.
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Old 08-28-2013, 6:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NHP1127 View Post
I was also looking at the POF a few weeks ago. For a few hundred more, I got the LMT MWS. You can change barrels and calibers in less than three minutes. The rifle has a great rep.
I bought an HK when I was looking for a 308 AR, but the LMT was next on the list. Great rifle.
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Old 08-29-2013, 9:29 AM
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The AR platform is going to be more accurate. It will also lend itself naturally to optics which the M1a is an afterthought. There are a lot of workarounds but still not as optimal as the AR. The ar should be sub-moa out of the box. M1a is 1.5-2.5 depending on model. Granted there are some exceptions with both.
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Old 08-29-2013, 5:44 PM
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Texas hogs aren't particularly large if it's just pest control and you want a lightweight semi-auto a 223 AR should do fine. Several bullet companies are making really potent bullets in that caliber specifically for hogs. I think barnes makes one called the "HOG X" or somethingrather that has good reviews.

example: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/167...free-box-of-20

High dollar rifles only perform their best with good ammunition, optics and a good shooter so don't think that spending 3000+ will get you something that is more reliable than anything else on the market either.

Last edited by Hoop; 08-29-2013 at 5:53 PM..
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Old 08-29-2013, 10:06 PM
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As stupid as the Red Jacket tv show is, an AR-15 in .458 SOCOM or like that should more than do the trick.
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Old 09-03-2013, 9:16 AM
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Reading thru the thread I don't remember seeing if the OP was going to use an optic or not.

I have had both rifles. I ended up selling my M1A Scout because after 4 shoulder reconstructions and 16 screws in there my shoulder couldnt handle the recoil impulse. That is the only reason I sold it. I had several mods on it that improved the out of the box accuracy, but they don't come cheap (NM trigger job is a must). If you are concerned about weight don't even look at the fiberglass stock, they suck and don't help for accuracy. Stick with walnut. I had a Vortex PST 4-16 on it in a Bassett mount. The Scout was 1.5MOA and possibly better with top shelf match grade ammo. Fun, sexy, classic and hard hitting. I miss the rifle.

I currently own the POF 20" P308 and love it. I get sub MOA accuracy out of it even with mil surplus ammo. The rifle will out shoot me all day everyday. Easy ergonomics, easy optic mounts, and lots of inexpensive upgrades if you want.

I have 3 POF rifles, P308 20", 6.8II 16" and P415 5.56 16". VERY happy with all 3.

Both rifles are heavy compared to a bolt or lever gun. Both are expensive to shoot compared to other calibers. both are capable of sub MOA and can reach out over 800yds easily.

Ask yourself, do you want classic or more modern. Then get one used to save yourself $$ then use that cash to buy lots of ammo and shoot the hell out of it.

Either way you will be happy.
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