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  #1  
Old 08-20-2013, 9:15 PM
stilly stilly is offline
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Default My trip down the NAS4FREE rabbit hole (Possibly solved)

I had Nas4free installed to a usb stick. I went through a couple of tutorials and the thing just REFUSED to be seen or accessed in the network from any of the three Win XP machines and even my Android Tablet.

I am doing the typical NAS routine where install to usb stick and allow the full HD (Constellation ES SATA) to have whatever it is for storage.

This is going to be used in an office settign with three other computers. There is going to be three shared folders, two for two different peope and one as a public share.

Clearly I need to read more about Linux beause I am sure that FOR WAHTEVER reason, just a flip of a single switch prolly, the box could be seen on the network.

Don't matter, I am now installing FreeNAS. I have to get this out tomorrow. I wasted two days messing with this system so now time for a change. Maybe the 64 bit is better but I had CFS/SMB and SSH services running. I could ping it and I could ssh into it through WinSCP, but when it come to adding it or trying to find it that was a NOGO.

Anyone have any opinions on what is better on the other three? OpenFiler seemed neat, but there was no 32 bit version available for d/l. OpenMedia Vault is next if this FreeNAS fails.

Last edited by stilly; 08-22-2013 at 9:02 PM..
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  #2  
Old 08-20-2013, 9:24 PM
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Why don't you just use SAMBA which is probably already installed, and just map a network drive to the user and shared folders?
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Old 08-20-2013, 9:39 PM
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If you are using Windows XP in an office environment you've got bigger problems than your "free" NAS not working. It's so full of security holes now, AND as soon as MS drops patch support it will look worse than swiss cheese.

Upgrade to Windows 7. 64-bit. If you are using 32-bit in a non-Lab setting or in a situation that demands you have to have a 32-bit OS then that's another fail.

And get an off the shelf NAS from Seagate or Western Digital or something.
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Old 08-20-2013, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by POLICESTATE View Post
If you are using Windows XP in an office environment you've got bigger problems than your "free" NAS not working. It's so full of security holes now, AND as soon as MS drops patch support it will look worse than swiss cheese.

Upgrade to Windows 7. 64-bit. If you are using 32-bit in a non-Lab setting or in a situation that demands you have to have a 32-bit OS then that's another fail.

And get an off the shelf NAS from Seagate or Western Digital or something.
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Why don't you just use SAMBA which is probably already installed, and just map a network drive to the user and shared folders?
Yes you are preaching to the choir about security and all that. The network topology is that there is 1 XP pro computer, 1 laptop, and now a HP Procurve 24 port switch and there WAS going to be a server, but I was still deciding to choose a server OS. Maybe Untangled or something else. Right now it is going to be a NAS. The next step is to upgrade that XP machine to a windows 7 or linux box. BUT for RIGHT NOW I have to deliver a NAS because Untangled was not behaving and wanted more network cards installed.

Sorry, WISH I could afford to get better hardware and perfect computers, but this job deals what people want and since they just started their business they have little to spend. I am confident that I will have this thing finished by tomorrow since I am giving it my full attention now, but I was looking for a few pointers on what might be better to give a shot first. I am going for whatever works. Worst case I will go back to untangled since it seems that now the network cards are in.

WOW.

FreeNAS did it. Slow, clunky and has errors in the page, but it seems to be working and EVERYTHING is now visible on the network.
I just have to reboot it and edit the users it looks like.

Last edited by stilly; 08-20-2013 at 10:44 PM..
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  #5  
Old 08-21-2013, 2:44 AM
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Originally Posted by stilly View Post
...
FreeNAS did it. Slow, clunky and has errors in the page, but it seems to be working and EVERYTHING is now visible on the network.
I just have to reboot it and edit the users it looks like.
I explored this option, but knowing Slackware pretty well, I just stuck to that for SaMBa use... since you have to do the same thing, and why not have the whole enchilada.

I am exploring Pear Linux OS for consolidating my Slackware and Windows Server 2008 boxes, which seems to install on a bunch of stuff that *buntu wont.

Windows is only getting more buggy, and less efficient for my tastes.
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Last edited by the86d; 08-21-2013 at 2:47 AM..
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Old 08-21-2013, 6:28 AM
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Originally Posted by POLICESTATE View Post
If you are using Windows XP in an office environment you've got bigger problems than your "free" NAS not working.
XP workstations on a work network isn't terribly bad for security where you can't mitigate vulnerabilities. Ensure host based firewalls and stick those workstations in a separate VLAN on RFC 1918 space.
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  #7  
Old 08-21-2013, 2:15 PM
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Yeah.

I am not out of the fire yet.
This is just something to give them a foot in the door. I really want a real server here later on, but I will explore that option later.

NOW I have permission issues.

Depending on how I set the USER when I enter them, it seems that they do NOT have access to the share on the network unless I give the user permissions in OTHER read.

But seriously, Am I missing something here? I gave the MOUNT a permission to allow all (I think) then I made the shares and assigned home directories, then I gave the USER permissions, and then the FILE folders through SCB I gave 700 permissions to. I have a group called public which EVERYONE is a member of (2 users) and they are only members of PUBLIC through secondary or auxillary. Primary is NOGROUP. Then I have their own folders where I gave 700 permission to each USER for their own FOLDER through winSCB via ssh.

Then when that did not work, well, maybe I need to learn a little more about these permissions.

What is the difference between permissions in making the user account vs the files?

Last night I got ONE user to work GREAT. Windows XP had to reboot to remove the pw from its cache, and then it would ask me for user AND pw again, and I would type it in and I would get access to the user share, but then I tried to make another user and do the exact same thing and it was a NOGO. So I wiped ALL users/SHARES/DIR/GROUPS out and redid them from scratch this morning and I am back to a nogo unless I give OTHERS R access, I am not getting into that directory. I need something to point out what that permission set is when I make a user and how it relates to the network.

I am almost there. It is certainly an eye opener. Lots of fun but I am banging my head against the wall.
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Old 08-21-2013, 2:16 PM
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Yeah.

I am not out of the fire yet.
This is just something to give them a foot in the door. I really want a real server here later on, but I will explore that option later.

NOW I have permission issues.

Depending on how I set the USER when I enter them, it seems that they do NOT have access to the share on the network unless I give the user permissions in OTHER read.

But seriously, Am I missing something here? I gave the MOUNT a permission to allow all (I think) then I made the shares and assigned home directories, then I gave the USER permissions, and then the FILE folders through SCB I gave 700 permissions to. I have a group called public which EVERYONE is a member of (2 users) and they are only members of PUBLIC through secondary or auxillary. Primary is NOGROUP. Then I have their own folders where I gave 700 permission to each USER for their own FOLDER through winSCB via ssh.

Then when that did not work, well, maybe I need to learn a little more about these permissions.

What is the difference between permissions in making the user account vs the files?

Last night I got ONE user to work GREAT. Windows XP had to reboot to remove the pw from its cache, and then it would ask me for user AND pw again, and I would type it in and I would get access to the user share, but then I tried to make another user and do the exact same thing and it was a NOGO. So I wiped ALL users/SHARES/DIR/GROUPS out and redid them from scratch this morning and I am back to a nogo unless I give OTHERS R access, I am not getting into that directory. I need something to point out what that permission set is when I make a user and how it relates to the network.

I am almost there. It is certainly an eye opener. Lots of fun but I am banging my head against the wall.
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  #9  
Old 08-21-2013, 2:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stilly View Post
Yeah.

I am not out of the fire yet.
This is just something to give them a foot in the door. I really want a real server here later on, but I will explore that option later.

NOW I have permission issues.
....
When you have a fileserver where users mount a network volume, there are typically two levels of ACLs:

1. The network share
2. The filesystem

Even if you give access to a user for one level, and they don't have the necessary access on the other level, they won't have access to said files.
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  #10  
Old 08-21-2013, 3:05 PM
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If you have a Windows environment, why mess with all of this and not just use Windows for a NAS? By now you've probably spent more time (at how much per hour?) than Windows Storage Server costs even at retail prices.
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Old 08-21-2013, 5:54 PM
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How can I determine what end the share level is on?

From what I see here there are FOUR possible sets of permissions.

One on the SYSTEM where I select the volume to be mounted.
One when I create a user account.
One on the FILE system via SSH/WinSCP
One when I make the SHARES themselves.

I will read up on it all a bit more and see what I can find out.

Nick: Thanks for that input but this is a specific project that I have undertaken because I wanted to learn more about Linux and setting things up. This is supposed to be a headless system because we can not fit a monitor and all inside the closet. There is not enough room at this point. Right now it is entry level. I am unemployed so my real pay here is learning this stuff and being a better Linux user. After this I will be starting a self teach course for Linux. Hopefully it will help with my learning curve.

Last edited by stilly; 08-21-2013 at 7:56 PM..
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Old 08-21-2013, 6:35 PM
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i got tired of all the free ones and finaly broke down and got a synology 4 bay. i L O V E their interface.
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Old 08-21-2013, 9:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stilly View Post
How can I determine what end the share level is on?

From what I see here there are FOUR possible sets of permissions.

One on the SYSTEM where I select the volume to be mounted.
One when I create a user account.
One on the FILE system via SSH/WinSCP
One when I make the SHARES themselves.

I will read up on it all a bit more and see what I can find out.

Nick: Thanks for that input but this is a specific project that I have undertaken because I wanted to learn more about Linux and setting things up. This is supposed to be a headless system because we can not fit a monitor and all inside the closet. There is not enough room at this point. Right now it is entry level. I am unemployed so my real pay here is learning this stuff and being a better Linux user. After this I will be starting a self teach course for Linux. Hopefully it will help with my learning curve.
Well, if it's a learning opportunity, then enjoy the learning curve. FreeNAS and Openfiler sure do provide those...

Been messing with Openfiler for a while, then I just got tired of it and bought Nexenta. It's still buggy, but much less so than Openfiler. The performance still sucks, compared to a decent SAN.

By "headless system" you mean a system without a monitor, right? Just making sure, since to me that's a SAN/NAS where the head unit and storage are on the same box. If so, many BIOSes allow you to redirect the console output to the serial port. You can then work at the console, if you have to (and until everything works, you often have to), but without a monitor. Of course, you can always use a KVM switch to do the same, but it'll cost you more.

Good luck!
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Old 08-22-2013, 9:01 PM
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Interesting. I got mad that I was going BACK and forth with FreeNAS and EVEN though it showed up on my NETWORK neighborhood It would FAIL to connect to certain shares or give me issues. I think the problem lies within Windows XP.

Today I reinstalled Nas4Free and I thought, well, there MUST be more than one way to access these shares. AND THERE IS!

BUT, windows revealed something in this process.

I set up the NAS4FREE server and it is holding a 500GB disk.
I made a MOUNT point.
I made a group named Public
I made three users now (because after talking with the client she wants three users now on the network.
I made four directories on the NAS via SSH in WinSCP
I made the three USER directories have a 700 permission level with the Owners being the three different users.
The FOURTH folder was a public share so I made that with a 775 and the OWNER was the group named PUBLIC. So anyone from PUBLIC should be able to access that.

Then I started having the SAME issues of not seeing in on my windows XP network here at the house.
I went to network neighborhood and right clicked and decided to give it a try- Map network drive so I did (OMFG. I just realized how I failed to do this in my interview test at MVUSD...) I clicked it, and then typed in the server \\10.0.0.250\user1 BUT, I was given the option to log in under different user and password, so I clicked that link adn a little box popped up and I typed in the user and their password. Then like magic the new DRIVE letter appeared on my Windows Explorer screen! I was like, COOL! I clicked it and I saw an empty folder with 400+GB of free space. I was like, COOL! So then I made a second share and called it public and pointed to the public folder and then it made a network drive letter so then I clicked it too and I got a folder also!
So I was like, COOL! So THEN I made ANOTHER map of user 2 and THIS is the problem that I think I was having the other night... (Pay attention any legacy XP users.) I tried to finish with LOG in under DIFFERENT name and I got an error. Apparently Windows told me that I could NOT have multiple connections to shares on a server with different login credentials. THEN I got an access denied.

THIS explains WHY FREENAS finally allowed me to log in to one user's folder, but not the other. But one thing that sucks is that freenas was easier to use and albeit, a bit laggy, but NOW I know about this. I do not know if this is only a winblows thing or not but that SUCKS.
But now that I know this, this is really all that I need to do. These users only need to see these shares pop up in their explorer tabs, they should not REALLY be able to browse to them. This will keep people honest I guess. (It IS a lawyer's office). So then now all I need to do is make a few NETUSE scripts and give one to each of them to use and this should take care of all of the issues I think.

BTW, I disconnected my first two shares and then remade another network map to user2 and had NO issues, but then when I tried to redo my share to user1 I got the error again. But I have ONLY seen these errors pop up when trying to map a drive. Winblows never told me WHY before, just that I had no access.

Is this for reals though? I mean, if I wanted to access different shares on a drive on the same server then I would have to use the same credentials for ALL of them on EVERY OS? This is a BSD thing or Winblows thing or just a common security practice in general? I guess it would keep someone from logging into across the board to multiple accounts and really jacking things up with user and group access...

BTW, I got mad and tried to install OMV and I could not believe that it STOPPED mid install to tell me that I had a drive with content on it (usb stick drive) and that I needed to clean it before I continued installing anything. It really pissed me off that it did this after it told me that it would wipe out and format all things on that usb stick drive. Then after trying to install things, I had to manually try to install different stages, but I never made it to the end, I got down to almost the bottom and then ran out of options and it still was not installed. So I said **** IT. Then I tried to write a FREENAS image to the USB stick but the program was in german and I think it did not like the .img file after I removed the .xz from it... So that failed, so I thought, well, I like Nas4Free so let's reinstall that.

I saw my log was filled with errors of having NO network interface found (but yet I was networking it) and after I fixed that and even put in a vlan, that error has left my log, but still no visibility on the network. That is what I would like just to make my life easier... Oh well. More reading on the FAQs of Nas4Free 9.1.x

It looks like the ONLY problem I have now is: Why can't I see my CFS/SMB Shares on the NAS through windows XP on one to three computers and possibly the android, but I can connect and map a network drive to them?

Once I get that answered I will be happy, but right now everything else works.

**edit
Well, batch scripts are set to cut and paste and they give me shares and what not when I run it so I think they work. This thing seems to ONLY not show itself in my network neighborhood, but If I go to RUN and type in the ip address it pops up the share and it allows me to browse and see the other three shares. I guess that is a bug in either my system or this version of Nas4Free but I am gonna keep it. I backed up the config file for it and put it on the shared drive along with the script for logging in with net use...

Next up is my Linux 5.0 box I have to install and learn on and then I am off to Untangle or Zentyal...

Last edited by stilly; 08-23-2013 at 2:51 AM..
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Old 08-23-2013, 7:41 PM
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Synology has the best NAS going right now for cheap. Its 200 for the box and 75 for an HD. It will do most anything including back itself up to a cloud or another NAS through a VPN.

Good chit!
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Old 08-24-2013, 8:20 AM
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I will keep that in mind. I have seen a few good boxes out there. I thought the drobo was good but whatever one will allow me to put in the most drives and support ZFS pooling I will be happy with I think. I think that synology costs closer to about $1k when I get done with all of the HDs. I want to max them all out like, 3-4TB each and just RUN with it. I will even consider WD RED drives...

I DId see the synology NAS in the ADMIN magazine but they said that the price was around $1700 with no disks. (but it allowed you to use 12 disks for 48TB and had an additional module that enabled you to double that!)

Maybe after I get employed I will pick one up for myself. The only sad thing was that it did not support ZFS which is what I want. (so then maybe I will just build one instead.)

:|
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Old 08-24-2013, 9:01 PM
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yea, synology is not cheap in any way shape or form, but like i said i finally broke down and got the ds413. its crazy loaded with features.

biggest reason i got it, i can now feel safe that the 20+ gigs of pics of my kids for the last 5 years is backed up, i lost 2 gigs of baby pics when picasa took a dump a while back. it also had rave reviews for the built in security cam software, i was a little cheesed off that it only came with one camera license, and each additional license was 50.00.

the ONLY flaw ive found is pretty well documented online about the media indexer taking months to create thumbnails, ive had it for 5 months and its only 90% completed, i was already a few weeks into it when i read i should have uploaded from my computer and had the computer create the thumbnails.


if you run your own company or website, this does it all, packages for shopping carts, help desk ticketing, asset management and tons of other stuff.

through amazon, it was 928.55 shipped with 3 WD RED 2 TB drives. I signed up for Amazons credit card, got a bonus, zero % interest for 12 months and between selling stuff on gunbroker and here, it will be paid off next month.
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