Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > GENERAL DISCUSSION > General gun discussions
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

General gun discussions This is a place to lounge and discuss firearm related topics with other forum members.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-20-2013, 10:05 AM
DuneShoot's Avatar
DuneShoot DuneShoot is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Free@Last!
Posts: 1,054
iTrader: 49 / 100%
Default Bad Experience-Poway Weapons & Gear

In a nut shell:
Bought a used pistol (2nd firearm I have purchased here). I'm not a gun smith with a trained eye nor was I able to test fire.
Gun won't feed and has been bubbed.
Owner claims he test fires all used firearms before selling. No way in hell he got this to run.

Talked to PW&G yesterday and they said it's now my problem.

See link in signature if you care for details. Will be sending it to a qualified smith for repairs.

On a side note I bought a well used 1911 from So Cal Gun a few years ago. Front sites came loose after shooting it for the 1st time. They paid to have it fixed!

Buyer beware at Poway Weapons & Gear.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-20-2013, 10:12 AM
rman's Avatar
rman rman is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: San Diego County
Posts: 2,549
iTrader: 22 / 100%
Default

bought a gun there in January. without going into detail, i was very displeased. the fat guy that works there was a jerk and ripped me off. i should have complained but i was all giddy over buying a gun


-Armand
Sent from my NSA tracking device
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-20-2013, 12:43 PM
desertjosh's Avatar
desertjosh desertjosh is online now
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: San Diego
Posts: 5,554
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

That sucks, didnt they just open up not too long ago? I was looking forward to checking them out.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-20-2013, 12:46 PM
DuneShoot's Avatar
DuneShoot DuneShoot is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Free@Last!
Posts: 1,054
iTrader: 49 / 100%
Default

They've been open for quite some time. They are opening an indoor range at some point.

Oh, and no need for gun locks when purchasing a hand gun
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-21-2013, 10:57 AM
weaponsandgear's Avatar
weaponsandgear weaponsandgear is offline
Vendor/Retailer
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Poway CA
Posts: 29
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default Let's make sure the whole story is told

Quote:
Originally Posted by DuneShoot View Post
In a nut shell:
Bought a used pistol (2nd firearm I have purchased here). I'm not a gun smith with a trained eye nor was I able to test fire.
Gun won't feed and has been bubbed.
Owner claims he test fires all used firearms before selling. No way in hell he got this to run.

Talked to PW&G yesterday and they said it's now my problem.

See link in signature if you care for details. Will be sending it to a qualified smith for repairs.

On a side note I bought a well used 1911 from So Cal Gun a few years ago. Front sites came loose after shooting it for the 1st time. They paid to have it fixed!

Buyer beware at Poway Weapons & Gear.
Dear sir,

While I hate to try and clear the air in the public forum I find myself compelled to answer your public claims in the public forum you chose. I am the owner of Poway Weapons & Gear and take extreme care to ensure the good name of this company as well as protect my employee’s good names as long as they follow my policies.

I have spoken to the two different employees who have firsthand knowledge of the firearm as well as your transaction. There seems to be some confusion on your part at to the accurate facts so I will take my turn at making sure your audience has the full story.

All used guns we sell are “As-Is” and it clearly marked and explained when the transaction is handled. Your transaction was no different. More importantly I am aware of your return trip where you pointed out your jamming issue. I even have the event on video and have reviewed to ensure the statements my employees told me are accurate.

As you disclosed to my staff (yet forgot to disclose on this public forum) you are running reloads through the gun. My staff pulled out factory (hollow point) ammunition to test the chambering by hand and the result was flawless. (Again, video is hard to argue with) Then, they tried your reloads. That exercise failed. They noted that your reloads are bulged and the length of the casing is long. You did not agree. You even went on to say to my staff “…the reloads work just fine in my XD.” That sir, is a very different gun and with very different temperament on chambering ammunition.

As for the dremeling, I have two staff members who inspected the gun when we bought it. One is my retail manager and the other is my armor who is responsible for the entire inspection, cleaning and visual inspection of each used gun. Both staff members very much disagree with there being any grinding or polishing marks on the gun. Our policy is not to buy such guns.
In the end, you were instructed the gun was “As-Is”. I have no control as to what you have done yourself, or had done to the gun by others since taking possession.

I try to work with any customer who has a problem with a gun or part they buy from my shop. You would be treated no differently. However, there are a number of issues you simply would no entertain as probably causes and thus, nothing can or will be done from our end. It sounds like there are many willing people who will take the gun off your hands. I will even pay for the PPT fee if done in my shop.

Good day.

John Phillips
President - Poway Weapons & Gear Inc.
__________________
San Diego's Largest Indoor Range and Firearms Retailer

Poway Weapons & Gear Range
13550 Danielson St
Poway CA 92064
Tel (858) 206 5057
Fax (866) 768-9011
www.weaponsandgearrange.com
Shop Hours : 7 days a week, 10-10

"No free man shall ever be debarred of the use of arms."
- Thomas Jefferson
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-21-2013, 11:10 AM
sd_shooter's Avatar
sd_shooter sd_shooter is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: San Diego
Posts: 7,814
iTrader: 78 / 100%
Default

Well played.

I have never had trouble there, good store and good folks.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-21-2013, 12:01 PM
762ch's Avatar
762ch 762ch is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 1,147
iTrader: 47 / 100%
Default

Both sides of the story are very important! That was a very professional way to handle that, I would feel comfortable shopping there.

OP should prob remove that signature line...
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-21-2013, 12:18 PM
RandyD's Avatar
RandyD RandyD is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: La Jolla, California
Posts: 5,369
iTrader: 40 / 100%
Default

And as Paul Harvey used to famously say, ...and now for the rest of the story.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-21-2013, 12:33 PM
Kimber Kimber is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 213
iTrader: 16 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DuneShoot View Post
Ammo is ammo. If the slide won' shut...
Clearly...

In any case, I have been in John's store several times and never had a problem. I will continue to go there, and I will continue to recommend it to others.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-21-2013, 3:56 PM
DuneShoot's Avatar
DuneShoot DuneShoot is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Free@Last!
Posts: 1,054
iTrader: 49 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by weaponsandgear View Post
Dear sir,

While I hate to try and clear the air in the public forum I find myself compelled to answer your public claims in the public forum you chose. I am the owner of Poway Weapons & Gear and take extreme care to ensure the good name of this company as well as protect my employee’s good names as long as they follow my policies.

I have spoken to the two different employees who have firsthand knowledge of the firearm as well as your transaction. There seems to be some confusion on your part at to the accurate facts so I will take my turn at making sure your audience has the full story.

All used guns we sell are “As-Is” and it clearly marked and explained when the transaction is handled. Your transaction was no different. More importantly I am aware of your return trip where you pointed out your jamming issue. I even have the event on video and have reviewed to ensure the statements my employees told me are accurate.

As you disclosed to my staff (yet forgot to disclose on this public forum) you are running reloads through the gun. My staff pulled out factory (hollow point) ammunition to test the chambering by hand and the result was flawless. (Again, video is hard to argue with) Then, they tried your reloads. That exercise failed. They noted that your reloads are bulged and the length of the casing is long. You did not agree. You even went on to say to my staff “…the reloads work just fine in my XD.” That sir, is a very different gun and with very different temperament on chambering ammunition.

As for the dremeling, I have two staff members who inspected the gun when we bought it. One is my retail manager and the other is my armor who is responsible for the entire inspection, cleaning and visual inspection of each used gun. Both staff members very much disagree with there being any grinding or polishing marks on the gun. Our policy is not to buy such guns.
In the end, you were instructed the gun was “As-Is”. I have no control as to what you have done yourself, or had done to the gun by others since taking possession.

I try to work with any customer who has a problem with a gun or part they buy from my shop. You would be treated no differently. However, there are a number of issues you simply would no entertain as probably causes and thus, nothing can or will be done from our end. It sounds like there are many willing people who will take the gun off your hands. I will even pay for the PPT fee if done in my shop.

Good day.

John Phillips
President - Poway Weapons & Gear Inc.
John,
Thanks for the reply.
"As-Is" was not clearly marked nor was it mentioned. I should have asked about a warranty as I have in the past at other stores.
Yes it did cycle 1 or 2 times by hand with your hollow points, I appoligize for not mentioning it. Cycling by hand and firing it are 2 different things.

The only "issue I would not entertain" was my ammo which was 124gr and your HP's, I'm guessing, were 115gr. As soon as you heard reloads that was automatically the issue. But I decided to take your advice of trying factory ammo about an hour after I left your store on Monday. I used American Eagle 115gr and had the same issues. I went to discount gun mart in Santee I don't expect you to believe that statement because you implied that I or someone else dremeled this firearm since TWO of your staff members "very much disagree with there being any grinding or polishing marks on the gun." I can assure you the only thing I did to this gun was add ammo. Maybe you could check DGM's video? the fact is the frame and barrel have been modified.

Another issue: You said "Our policy is not to buy such guns." I specifically asked if this was a consignment gun or store owned and was told store owned. If this is the case how can you sell an off-roster pistol? It wasn't a private party sale as I paid sales tax. For the record it says consignment on the receipt.

I took this gun to Alan Tanaka. I know you've never heard of him but he is highly recommended here. He inspected it closely and came to the conclusion that the frame is for a .45 while the upper half, slide stop, and ejector are for a 9mm. He measured the distance from the slide stop to the frame feed ramp.
Spec for a .45 is .780-.790
Spec for a 9mm is .820- .830
Mine measured at .782
The only way I can be sure is to pay Colt for a formal letter to see if it was shipped as a .45 or 9.

Bottom line is I paid a premium and then some for a non functioning firearm. I won't have it back for 3-6 months from Alan.

Thanks for the offer to pay the PPT for the 'generous' offers I have been given on this no functioning firearm.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08-21-2013, 11:01 PM
toddh toddh is offline
Banned
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Vista, Ca.
Posts: 1,919
iTrader: 22 / 100%
Default




I'm curious as to what make and model this gun was ??
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-22-2013, 4:20 AM
DuneShoot's Avatar
DuneShoot DuneShoot is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Free@Last!
Posts: 1,054
iTrader: 49 / 100%
Default

Colt Commander 9mm. Link in Sig shows pic's and details.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-22-2013, 6:24 AM
sl0re10 sl0re10 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,733
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

I've sold "working but as is" stuff and if it was doa from the get go for a customer; that warrants a refund (esp with something like a firearm with a serial number trail). After some use; not so much. But out of the box? Naaa.

It strongly implies it never fully tested good as claimed.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-22-2013, 8:05 AM
toddh toddh is offline
Banned
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Vista, Ca.
Posts: 1,919
iTrader: 22 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by weaponsandgear View Post
Dear sir,

While I hate to try and clear the air in the public forum I find myself compelled to answer your public claims in the public forum you chose. I am the owner of Poway Weapons & Gear and take extreme care to ensure the good name of this company as well as protect my employee’s good names as long as they follow my policies.

I have spoken to the two different employees who have firsthand knowledge of the firearm as well as your transaction. There seems to be some confusion on your part at to the accurate facts so I will take my turn at making sure your audience has the full story.

All used guns we sell are “As-Is” and it clearly marked and explained when the transaction is handled. Your transaction was no different. More importantly I am aware of your return trip where you pointed out your jamming issue. I even have the event on video and have reviewed to ensure the statements my employees told me are accurate.

As you disclosed to my staff (yet forgot to disclose on this public forum) you are running reloads through the gun. My staff pulled out factory (hollow point) ammunition to test the chambering by hand and the result was flawless. (Again, video is hard to argue with) Then, they tried your reloads. That exercise failed. They noted that your reloads are bulged and the length of the casing is long. You did not agree. You even went on to say to my staff “…the reloads work just fine in my XD.” That sir, is a very different gun and with very different temperament on chambering ammunition.

As for the dremeling, I have two staff members who inspected the gun when we bought it. One is my retail manager and the other is my armor who is responsible for the entire inspection, cleaning and visual inspection of each used gun. Both staff members very much disagree with there being any grinding or polishing marks on the gun. Our policy is not to buy such guns.
In the end, you were instructed the gun was “As-Is”. I have no control as to what you have done yourself, or had done to the gun by others since taking possession.

I try to work with any customer who has a problem with a gun or part they buy from my shop. You would be treated no differently. However, there are a number of issues you simply would no entertain as probably causes and thus, nothing can or will be done from our end. It sounds like there are many willing people who will take the gun off your hands. I will even pay for the PPT fee if done in my shop.

Good day.

John Phillips
President - Poway Weapons & Gear Inc.
Well....after reading the other thread, hearing the victims story and hearing your side, I would that you didn't do much if anything to help the customer.
You should have at least taken the gun into the back and done a more thorough inspection, but you essentially told him to kick rocks.
And in the story, the victim claims your people couldn't get the hollow points to load, you said they did load. Somebody is mistaken on that account.

Fact is, you are responsible as a business owner to stand behind ANY product you sell....new/used/whatever. That is just good business, and you did CHOOSE to sell the gun, and there seems to still be some question as to whether this gun was a store gun, or a consignment.

So until you do something....anything to help make this gun safe and reliable, I will side with the customer on this one.

I do not know the victim, nor do I have a dog in the fight. But the guy is having issues with a product you sold, and PWG haven't done much if anything to make it right.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-22-2013, 8:17 AM
DuneShoot's Avatar
DuneShoot DuneShoot is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Free@Last!
Posts: 1,054
iTrader: 49 / 100%
Default

He was able to get HP's to feed manually.

I can't get factory or reloaded 115 or 124gr to run.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 08-22-2013, 8:23 AM
Untamed1972 Untamed1972 is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 17,582
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DuneShoot View Post
John,
Thanks for the reply.
"As-Is" was not clearly marked nor was it mentioned. I should have asked about a warranty as I have in the past at other stores.
Yes it did cycle 1 or 2 times by hand with your hollow points, I appoligize for not mentioning it. Cycling by hand and firing it are 2 different things.
That is a true statement. If the store never actually fired the gun, then I dont think they can really came it's been thoroughly inspected.

I dont know what the store's policy is on test firing used guns prior to sale, or allowing a customer to test fire it before purchase. But if neither of these things are done or allowed then if you're selling it as a fully functioning firearm, but also stating the sale is "as-is" you're kind of putting your customer in a tough spot. And as a business owner it would prolly be a good thing to make sure you do EVERYTHING you can with to work with a customer who is having an issue because he bought something from you and took you at your word that it was fully fuctional, but given no other option to verify that prior to purchase.
__________________
"Freedom begins with an act of defiance"

Quote for the day:
Quote:
"..the mind is the weapon and the hand only its extention. Discipline your mind!" Master Hao, Chenrezi monastery, Valley of the Sun

Last edited by Untamed1972; 08-22-2013 at 8:31 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 08-22-2013, 8:41 AM
ucsdryder ucsdryder is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 347
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

It always amazes me when these gun shops will get in a public argument over a couple bucks worth of profit. Take the gun back, refund him and move on!!!! A couple bucks profit sure arent worth having your name dragged through the mud for 1000s to see.

He might be right.
You might be right.

WHO CARES!!!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by weaponsandgear View Post
Dear sir,

While I hate to try and clear the air in the public forum I find myself compelled to answer your public claims in the public forum you chose. I am the owner of Poway Weapons & Gear and take extreme care to ensure the good name of this company as well as protect my employee’s good names as long as they follow my policies.

I have spoken to the two different employees who have firsthand knowledge of the firearm as well as your transaction. There seems to be some confusion on your part at to the accurate facts so I will take my turn at making sure your audience has the full story.

All used guns we sell are “As-Is” and it clearly marked and explained when the transaction is handled. Your transaction was no different. More importantly I am aware of your return trip where you pointed out your jamming issue. I even have the event on video and have reviewed to ensure the statements my employees told me are accurate.

As you disclosed to my staff (yet forgot to disclose on this public forum) you are running reloads through the gun. My staff pulled out factory (hollow point) ammunition to test the chambering by hand and the result was flawless. (Again, video is hard to argue with) Then, they tried your reloads. That exercise failed. They noted that your reloads are bulged and the length of the casing is long. You did not agree. You even went on to say to my staff “…the reloads work just fine in my XD.” That sir, is a very different gun and with very different temperament on chambering ammunition.

As for the dremeling, I have two staff members who inspected the gun when we bought it. One is my retail manager and the other is my armor who is responsible for the entire inspection, cleaning and visual inspection of each used gun. Both staff members very much disagree with there being any grinding or polishing marks on the gun. Our policy is not to buy such guns.
In the end, you were instructed the gun was “As-Is”. I have no control as to what you have done yourself, or had done to the gun by others since taking possession.

I try to work with any customer who has a problem with a gun or part they buy from my shop. You would be treated no differently. However, there are a number of issues you simply would no entertain as probably causes and thus, nothing can or will be done from our end. It sounds like there are many willing people who will take the gun off your hands. I will even pay for the PPT fee if done in my shop.

Good day.

John Phillips
President - Poway Weapons & Gear Inc.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 08-22-2013, 8:58 AM
Untamed1972 Untamed1972 is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 17,582
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ucsdryder View Post
It always amazes me when these gun shops will get in a public argument over a couple bucks worth of profit. Take the gun back, refund him and move on!!!! A couple bucks profit sure arent worth having your name dragged through the mud for 1000s to see.

He might be right.
You might be right.

WHO CARES!!!!
Especially now that the OP has provided supposed testimony from another gunsmith that there may in fact be a legit issue with the gun.

But I agree, it doesn't do much for reputation of the business to basically make a post saying "tough sh*t". The loss of rep. cant be worth the few dollars of profit made on the gun. And if the store did not ever actually test fire the gun, I think their position that there is nothing wrong with the gun except ammo choice is on pretty shakey ground.
__________________
"Freedom begins with an act of defiance"

Quote for the day:
Quote:
"..the mind is the weapon and the hand only its extention. Discipline your mind!" Master Hao, Chenrezi monastery, Valley of the Sun
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 08-22-2013, 9:41 AM
jeffafa's Avatar
jeffafa jeffafa is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,085
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Default

Well I guess this is a good enough time to submit my reviews of the place.
I've been in there quite a bit as I live close by and for the "most part" have been treated very well. I know the 2 main guys that work there are named Mike and Steve but I can't remember which is which. I believe Mike is the armorer (carries a Glock, does the duracoating?) and Steve carries a XD. If I have these 2 mixed up I apologize but it is relevant to my experiences there.

First off, I have purchased ammo there and have had 2 guns duracoated there.
Their ammo prices are a little high but they do post availability on their FB page when they get new stock in and don't limit quantities. Overall their prices are slightly higher than most other shops on just about everything, including guns.
The duracoating work was exceptional quality, reasonably priced and excellent turnaround with both being less than 2 days. I would highly recommend anyone interested in getting duracoating done to have these guys do it.

They are opening a new range early next year. It's supposed to be the 3rd largest indoor range in the country and I'm sure it will be nice with modern amenities. They are advertising a 25, 50, and 100 yard range totaling 42 lanes I believe. With that said, their membership prices are extremely high. For 1 year, for access JUST to the 25 yd range they are asking $500 per person/yr. and basically only includes reservations.
Here is a link to their membership prices, which are the highest I've ever seen:
http://weaponsandgearrange.com/membership-annual.php

Compared to other ranges, for someone who only shoots pistols at 25 yds or less this is way too high of a price. I currently have both my wife and myself as members at another range for $400 total, which includes free rentals. Granted it's not as "nice" as I'm sure the new range will be but to put holes in paper it suffices just fine.
I attended a hearing at City Hall to support them as a Poway resident as did a few of my friends. I also happen to know one of the newly elected Poway council members and he and I had a discussion about supporting the range before the council's final vote. I'm not claiming it made a difference but it shows that local residents showed support for getting the range open. It would be nice if they offered a resident discount and/or included more in their basic membership costs.

The only thing that really rubbed me wrong was when I mentioned something to Steve(?) about SSE going away was that he replied with, "Good, I'll be glad when that's gone!" I know it's probably just personal opinion, but then he proceeded to tell me that he owns at least 1 off-roster pistol through the intrafamilial transfer through his dad. I guess the fact that as a vendor in an already excluded community that you feel it's ok to own an off roster gun through an exemption but not support others from owning them through a different exemption just doesn't sit right with me. I haven't been back to that shop since as I would rather spend my money with a more supportive business.


EDIT:
I just noticed something else on their membership pricing - their "Casual Shooter" membership actually costs MORE than their "Silver" membership by about $55/yr. and doesn't include the family 1/2 price!
Weird marketing approach there:

SILVER Annual Fee $499
Unlimited Access to 25 Yard Range
Front of Line for 25 Yard Range
Free Reservations -25 Yard Range
Family 1/2 Price Lane Rentals with Member

Casual Shooter Membership (Total $555/yr.)
Access to the 25 yard range, front of the line privileges and reservations!
Initiation Fee - One time $75
Monthly Fee $39.95
* Must set up on auto debt or credit card for monthly billing

Last edited by jeffafa; 08-22-2013 at 12:17 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 08-22-2013, 9:50 AM
L4D's Avatar
L4D L4D is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,577
iTrader: 76 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by weaponsandgear View Post
Dear sir,

While I hate to try and clear the air in the public forum I find myself compelled to answer your public claims in the public forum you chose. I am the owner of Poway Weapons & Gear and take extreme care to ensure the good name of this company as well as protect my employee’s good names as long as they follow my policies.

I have spoken to the two different employees who have firsthand knowledge of the firearm as well as your transaction. There seems to be some confusion on your part at to the accurate facts so I will take my turn at making sure your audience has the full story.

All used guns we sell are “As-Is” and it clearly marked and explained when the transaction is handled. Your transaction was no different. More importantly I am aware of your return trip where you pointed out your jamming issue. I even have the event on video and have reviewed to ensure the statements my employees told me are accurate.

As you disclosed to my staff (yet forgot to disclose on this public forum) you are running reloads through the gun. My staff pulled out factory (hollow point) ammunition to test the chambering by hand and the result was flawless. (Again, video is hard to argue with) Then, they tried your reloads. That exercise failed. They noted that your reloads are bulged and the length of the casing is long. You did not agree. You even went on to say to my staff “…the reloads work just fine in my XD.” That sir, is a very different gun and with very different temperament on chambering ammunition.

As for the dremeling, I have two staff members who inspected the gun when we bought it. One is my retail manager and the other is my armor who is responsible for the entire inspection, cleaning and visual inspection of each used gun. Both staff members very much disagree with there being any grinding or polishing marks on the gun. Our policy is not to buy such guns.
In the end, you were instructed the gun was “As-Is”. I have no control as to what you have done yourself, or had done to the gun by others since taking possession.

I try to work with any customer who has a problem with a gun or part they buy from my shop. You would be treated no differently. However, there are a number of issues you simply would no entertain as probably causes and thus, nothing can or will be done from our end. It sounds like there are many willing people who will take the gun off your hands. I will even pay for the PPT fee if done in my shop.

Good day.

John Phillips
President - Poway Weapons & Gear Inc.

Here you should just copy and paste this, then edit your post.

Quote:
Hi DuneShoot,

Sorry you're having issues with the handgun you purchased from us. Bring it back and we will take a closer look and test fire to make sure you have a properly functioning weapon as we stand behind what we sell 100%.

Hope to hear from you soon,
PWG

Last edited by L4D; 08-22-2013 at 10:20 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 08-22-2013, 10:31 AM
FeuerFrei's Avatar
FeuerFrei FeuerFrei is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: sign said "Abandon all hope, ye who enter here"
Posts: 4,081
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Customer buys a "used' gun from a gunshop and it turns out that it doesn't work.
Caveat emptor.
The responsibility of the purchase lies with the buyer. Research the weapon and it's notable failings and value before hand. This is common sense.
"AS IS" is a standard for selling most things that are indeed used.
Asking questions before the purchase is on the buyer. Know what you're buying and how to check it before you throw down the $. Boogered up feed ramps and barrel throughts should send red flags on any semi-auto especially 1911 types.
Most gunshops do not warranty used guns except on a case by case basis and chalk it up to consumerism.
Sounds like the damage is done and you cannot un-ring the bell after this kind of post.
I am sorry for your troubles OP and I hope everything gets working for you.
__________________
"Find out just what the people will submit to and you have found out the exact amount of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them and these will continue until they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress."
-- Frederick Douglass --

“I didn’t know I was a slave until I found out I couldn’t do the things I wanted.”
– Frederick Douglass --
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 08-22-2013, 11:26 AM
davegar1's Avatar
davegar1 davegar1 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: San Diego
Posts: 454
iTrader: 82 / 98%
Default

Any reputable gun shop would give the customer the benefit of the doubt and at very least take the weapon back for store credit if the malfunction was legit.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 08-22-2013, 1:23 PM
modls7's Avatar
modls7 modls7 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 381
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FeuerFrei View Post
Customer buys a "used' gun from a gunshop and it turns out that it doesn't work.
Caveat emptor.
The responsibility of the purchase lies with the buyer. Research the weapon and it's notable failings and value before hand. This is common sense.
"AS IS" is a standard for selling most things that are indeed used.
Asking questions before the purchase is on the buyer. Know what you're buying and how to check it before you throw down the $. Boogered up feed ramps and barrel throughts should send red flags on any semi-auto especially 1911 types.
Most gunshops do not warranty used guns except on a case by case basis and chalk it up to consumerism.
Sounds like the damage is done and you cannot un-ring the bell after this kind of post.
I am sorry for your troubles OP and I hope everything gets working for you.
QFT. You take a risk anytime you buy something used. Sometimes you win, sometimes you don't. Understand the terms to which you buy things, and get it in writing. If you fail to do this then you've failed yourself. Ideally things should not be this way, but they are.


Best of luck w/ Tanaka.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 08-22-2013, 1:34 PM
RandyD's Avatar
RandyD RandyD is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: La Jolla, California
Posts: 5,369
iTrader: 40 / 100%
Default

Buying a firearm is not much different than buying a car. If you want a product that has never been used, and has the backing of the manufacturer, then you buy a new car or firearm. When you buy a used firearm or car, then you are taking a chance that the product may have been abused by the previous owner(s). It is unrealistic to purchase a car or firearm, from a dealer that is selling it, especially if it was sold "as is", then expect the dealer to repair and remedy every defect that you subsequently discover.

In summary, the OP had the opportunity to inspect the firearm prior to purchase. He elected to purchase the gun in "as is" condition. Now, he wants the dealer to incur the cost, time and effort to make his firearm in new condition. This is unreasonable.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 08-22-2013, 1:41 PM
Untamed1972 Untamed1972 is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 17,582
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyD View Post
Buying a firearm is not much different than buying a car. If you want a product that has never been used, and has the backing of the manufacturer, then you buy a new car or firearm. When you buy a used firearm or car, then you are taking a chance that the product may have been abused by the previous owner(s). It is unrealistic to purchase a car or firearm, from a dealer that is selling it, especially if it was sold "as is", then expect the dealer to repair and remedy every defect that you subsequently discover.

In summary, the OP had the opportunity to inspect the firearm prior to purchase. He elected to purchase the gun in "as is" condition. Now, he wants the dealer to incur the cost, time and effort to make his firearm in new condition. This is unreasonable.
I didn't see the OP asking for it be put into "new condition". I saw him asking for it to be made to function...which right now it does not. Saying that you can cycle ammo in manually is like saying "well the car we sold you doesn't actually run, but you can push it down the street and it will roll."

If the store is represting the gun as "in fully fuctioning condition" states that it's been inspected and checked over by the armor etc, then "AS-IS" means you're accepting a functioning firearm with whatever cosmetic blemishes and wear it may have etc. It doesn't mean "well we said it's funtioning and have inspected it, but it may not actually work at all."

Legally speaking the shop may be covered......but from a business perspective it seems like a pretty bad business plan to leave a customer holding the bag like that and then post a response here that basically boils down to "tough sh*t, sucks to be you."

If the gun is in fact a cobbled together piece as the OP is suspecting it might be, something that nearly anyone here likely would not be able to spot via a visual inspection, and perhaps even escaped the notice of the pro's at the shop, then the shop misrepresented what it was they selling and should make it right.

At a minimum out of good customer service they should at least test fire to verify what the OP is saying and see if they thing actually does fuction or if it is malfunctioning as the buyer is claiming.
__________________
"Freedom begins with an act of defiance"

Quote for the day:
Quote:
"..the mind is the weapon and the hand only its extention. Discipline your mind!" Master Hao, Chenrezi monastery, Valley of the Sun

Last edited by Untamed1972; 08-22-2013 at 1:53 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 08-22-2013, 1:55 PM
jeffafa's Avatar
jeffafa jeffafa is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,085
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Untamed1972 View Post
At a minimum out of good customer service they should at least test fire to verify what the OP is saying and see if they thing actually does fuction or if it is malfunctioning as the buyer is claiming.
This!

I understand that buying used comes with risk. I also understand that good customer service will usually result in return business. It's a trade-off for the vendor. How much negative publicity has this shop now received from potential customers who may not shop there in the future as a result of reading this? Rhetorical question obviously but if you're a small business owner in a niche market with higher prices than your competition you can't really afford to not take care of your customers.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 08-22-2013, 2:03 PM
Untamed1972 Untamed1972 is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 17,582
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 34Gee View Post
This!

I understand that buying used comes with risk. I also understand that good customer service will usually result in return business. It's a trade-off for the vendor. How much negative publicity has this shop now received from potential customers who may not shop there in the future as a result of reading this? Rhetorical question obviously but if you're a small business owner in a niche market with higher prices than your competition you can't really afford to not take care of your customers.
Yep.....exactly.

Imagine if the OP had posted how he'd bought this gun it was having issues and he took it back to the shop and they fell all themselves to look into it and check it out and make it right and how great his experience was with them because of how they took care of this issue and made sure he was a satisfied customer.
__________________
"Freedom begins with an act of defiance"

Quote for the day:
Quote:
"..the mind is the weapon and the hand only its extention. Discipline your mind!" Master Hao, Chenrezi monastery, Valley of the Sun
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 08-22-2013, 2:10 PM
pc_load_letter's Avatar
pc_load_letter pc_load_letter is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,471
iTrader: 49 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ucsdryder View Post
It always amazes me when these gun shops will get in a public argument over a couple bucks worth of profit. Take the gun back, refund him and move on!!!! A couple bucks profit sure arent worth having your name dragged through the mud for 1000s to see.

He might be right.
You might be right.

WHO CARES!!!!

This ^^^

I've only purchased parts there, not to mention a horrible duracoat job, but I can surely say I will absolutely NOT purchase a gun from there.

Plenty of other good shops in SD.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 08-22-2013, 2:16 PM
pc_load_letter's Avatar
pc_load_letter pc_load_letter is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,471
iTrader: 49 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FeuerFrei View Post
Customer buys a "used' gun from a gunshop and it turns out that it doesn't work.
Caveat emptor.
The responsibility of the purchase lies with the buyer. Research the weapon and it's notable failings and value before hand. This is common sense.
"AS IS" is a standard for selling most things that are indeed used.
Asking questions before the purchase is on the buyer. Know what you're buying and how to check it before you throw down the $. Boogered up feed ramps and barrel throughts should send red flags on any semi-auto especially 1911 types.
Most gunshops do not warranty used guns except on a case by case basis and chalk it up to consumerism.
Sounds like the damage is done and you cannot un-ring the bell after this kind of post.
I am sorry for your troubles OP and I hope everything gets working for you.
I would tend to disagree. I gun is meant to shoot bullets. There are TONS of moving parts involved. If a shop does not allow a detailed inspection (such as a field strip, as some shops DO NOT allow), then there has (should) be some protections for the buyer.

It's perhaps very difficult to see the inner workings of a firearm or how ammo feeds if not allowed to test fire or field strip. If I had a shop, I would allow a 10 day return policy after pickup to return a used firearm.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 08-22-2013, 2:17 PM
SloChicken's Avatar
SloChicken SloChicken is online now
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Newport, OR - Lewiston, ID
Posts: 3,621
iTrader: 46 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Untamed1972 View Post
Yep.....exactly.

Imagine if the OP had posted how he'd bought this gun it was having issues and he took it back to the shop and they fell all themselves to look into it and check it out and make it right and how great his experience was with them because of how they took care of this issue and made sure he was a satisfied customer.
I live not 20 miles from this place, have yet to have been there yet, but I do buy Firearms, Parts, and Ammo quite regularly. I like to keep my dollars local if possible.

That said,
Higher than average prices and the attitude from Poway Guns in their post has just severely decreased my odds of going there for my needs.

the issue may be with the OPs ammo, but the response from the Vendor sucks.
Cost of doing business is sometimes you have to eat a bit of profit to keep the customers happy. Part of owning a shop, or business in general, is that you purport yourself as an "expert", and by doing so, you are selling that service as someone that can be "reliably trusted" that when you sell a gun to someone and state it is functional, that it in fact is.
I seriously doubt that the customer was told the pistol had feeding issues.
When brought to your attention, in effect, you told the customer to pound sand.
If the pistol was in the same shape as it was when it left, often the store (usually) would take it back from the customer and work out a deal for a different weapon or a amenable deal of some sort.
That fact seems to be missed by Poway guns.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 08-22-2013, 2:35 PM
shooperman's Avatar
shooperman shooperman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Escondildo
Posts: 1,669
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Default

Other than the fact the shop is right down the street from my house, there's no reason why I would go there instead of driving 10+ miles to any other shops in the area. I'm sorry to hear about your experience OP, but after my first trip there, I wouldn't go back. Amazing how a couple dollars of profit are worth the slander on an open forum.
__________________
"I'd cure the whole world with one primal scream, but no one would listen" - Davey Havoc


FS: Glock 30SF & Glock 41 ***PRICE DROP***
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1441144
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 08-22-2013, 2:49 PM
Untamed1972 Untamed1972 is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 17,582
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SloChicken View Post
I live not 20 miles from this place, have yet to have been there yet, but I do buy Firearms, Parts, and Ammo quite regularly. I like to keep my dollars local if possible.

That said,
Higher than average prices and the attitude from Poway Guns in their post has just severely decreased my odds of going there for my needs.
I've stopped in a couple of times. First time just to check the place out since I'd never been there. Staff was fairly friendly.

Went in about 3 weks ago because I was contemplating a new deer rifle for the upcoming season. Shop was empty, but guy I talked to didn't seem to have much interest in helping me out.

Maybe I should let them know that they lost a $1300 sale, because I just brought home said new deer rifle a couple of days ago from another shop with service guys that actually wanted to help me out.
__________________
"Freedom begins with an act of defiance"

Quote for the day:
Quote:
"..the mind is the weapon and the hand only its extention. Discipline your mind!" Master Hao, Chenrezi monastery, Valley of the Sun
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 08-22-2013, 2:58 PM
DuneShoot's Avatar
DuneShoot DuneShoot is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Free@Last!
Posts: 1,054
iTrader: 49 / 100%
Default

Here's a crazy and probably unbelievable twist to the story.
I dropped this off with Alan Tanaka yesterday. His standard time quote is 10-12 weeks and has said he hasn't met that time frame in a while. He also said my issue was something out of the ordinary and working on it would break up his "monotonous" work on other pistols. He called today and said mine is finished, I was shocked! His 1st suggestion on a fix was to "pinch the barrel" (his words) which he explained to me was cutting a few thousandths off the bottom of the barrel under the barrel ramp if I understood him correctly.
I have not seen it yet and really hope I have time to go by his place while I am in the area, if not he will have to ship it to me.
He said he ran about 70 rounds with no issues. 50 round of my ammo, 147gr (the longest cartridge I know of) and some of his rounds (unknown gr).

Will post pic's of the fix in the gun smith thread once I have it and test it.

I'd be satisfied if PWG sent me a check for the repairs once I have a receipt. It was just over $200.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 08-22-2013, 3:01 PM
SloChicken's Avatar
SloChicken SloChicken is online now
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Newport, OR - Lewiston, ID
Posts: 3,621
iTrader: 46 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DuneShoot View Post
Here's a crazy and probably unbelievable twist to the story.
I dropped this off with Alan Tanaka yesterday. His standard time quote is 10-12 weeks and has said he hasn't met that time frame in a while. He also said my issue was something out of the ordinary and working on it would break up his "monotonous" work on other pistols. He called today and said mine is finished, I was shocked! His 1st suggestion on a fix was to "pinch the barrel" (his words) which he explained to me was cutting a few thousandths off the bottom of the barrel under the barrel ramp if I understood him correctly.
I have not seen it yet and really hope I have time to go by his place while I am in the area, if not he will have to ship it to me.
He said he ran about 70 rounds with no issues. 50 round of my ammo, 147gr (the longest cartridge I know of) and some of his rounds (unknown gr).

Will post pic's of the fix in the gun smith thread once I have it and test it.

I'd be satisfied if PWG sent me a check for the repairs once I have a receipt. It was just over $200.
I wouldn't count on that check.

I would consider it a $200 education on where not to send your dollars.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 08-22-2013, 3:42 PM
HonkingAntelope HonkingAntelope is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 515
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

If the gun works fine afterwards, consider yourself lucky that it was a pretty inexpensive fix. Still, the store should have made this one right if the problem was as easily reproduced as OP says (even if you get to pony up a few $$ for the test ammo - the store could always refund that in case the gun was still not feeding properly).
__________________
That ain't a stolen gun under my car seat - it's undocumented sports equipment!

"So do I. In fifteen goddamn towns this has happened to me. This is the last. I won't be ******* shoved anymore." -John Rambo.

"When it's used more and more, extortion can seem to a terrified and traumatized populace as a normal tax system" -cnn.com, http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/19/world/...ney/index.html
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 08-22-2013, 3:52 PM
sl0re10 sl0re10 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,733
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Good for OP... I'll pass on the shop.

There is more than one kind of as-is.
As-is for parts / non working
and as-is working but no warranty

I wouldn't buy from a place w/o the distinction.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 08-22-2013, 7:27 PM
bulletblood bulletblood is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 755
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Too bad, I like going there for ammo. They actually have ammo and are priced well compared to other gun shops in my opinion. How often can you get 45 acp for 39 cents per round these days...outside of wallmart.

I also look forward to their range and hope by then they learn from this fiasco and improve their customer service.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 08-22-2013, 8:15 PM
pc_load_letter's Avatar
pc_load_letter pc_load_letter is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,471
iTrader: 49 / 100%
Default

Good to hear that it may be fixed.

I had a bulged barrel caused by a 9mm reload from Jack Ross Ammo (not sure if they are even in business now) and had to get a whole new slide.

The owner at Jack Ross sent me a check. I was impressed.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 08-22-2013, 9:09 PM
redcliff's Avatar
redcliff redcliff is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Shasta County
Posts: 5,219
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Default

Unless the item is tagged at the store with language sufficient to meet statutory requirements for "as is" sales (and no "as is" doesn't cut it to meet that requirement) anything sold by a retailer in California is covered by an implied warranty of merchantability for 60 days. Merchantability means it is acceptable for the normal intended use of the item.

The OP should just small claims the seller if he believes that those laws weren't followed.
__________________
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."
"What we get away with isn't usually the same as what's good for us"
"An extended slide stop is the second most useless part you can put on a 1911"

"While Ruger DA revolvers may be built like a tank, they have the aesthetics of one also,
although I suppose there are a few tanks which I owe an apology to for that remark"
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 08-22-2013, 9:35 PM
rman's Avatar
rman rman is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: San Diego County
Posts: 2,549
iTrader: 22 / 100%
Default

my experience was my fault.. for letting them rip me off

i called in one night at closing for my first gun, a 15-22, they just got 2. verified they were $479.

came in as soon as they opened the next morning, the large guy said they were both sold, they weren't even in the back room, just sitting there behind the counter. turns out they weren't even checked into inventory yet.

debated for a bit and decided to order one. i was being helped by the normal looking filipino guy, who was friendly.

price came up to 529 + tax and dros, i said their website shows $479, and i called last night and verified. Large guy steps in and said he'll adjust the price back down to $479. starts pawing at the computer for a few minutes, runs my card, hands me a receipt for $600. I'm like WTF you didn't adjust the price? he says "nope"

Where i failed was to agree and sign the receipt like a newb. was too excited about my first gun. Picked up my 15-22 and never went back.

Here we are 7 months later. I pick up my 11th and 12th guns this Monday and PWG wont ever see a penny from me again.



-Armand
Sent from my NSA tracking device

Last edited by rman; 08-22-2013 at 9:37 PM..
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:01 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2018, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.