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  #1  
Old 08-28-2016, 12:06 PM
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Default Trouble with shotshells- help please

During a trap shoot today I had a lot of trouble with my loads, one squibbed a wad, one was just a "poof" with smoke coming out and that hull got stuck in the chamber and the case head was pushed in (pic) And looked like the primer blew out The other one, the case head completely came off when it ejected but part of the primer remained in the hull.

The one that the case head (or brass part, not sure correct term) had part of the primer still in it (pic), and I tore it down and it had powder in it, but non of it burned. This one also had the wad still in the case but the shot rolled out.

Could these have just been bad primers in the lot that I have or contaminated some how? I find it weird that NON of the powder burned

I'm seriously at a loss, please help!!

Pics below

--> note part of primer
--> powder and bottom of wad from the case above


--> Note Wad is still in the hull
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Old 08-28-2016, 12:49 PM
acoop101 acoop101 is offline
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What is the load you are using? It looks like red dot powder? I would check you are loading what you think you are loading as well as that you have good lod data.

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Old 08-28-2016, 1:20 PM
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18 grains of red dot, win 209 primer remington STS hull windjammer wad 1-1/8 oz #7-1/2 is the load.

I check throughout the load session, the ones I checked were all right on the dot, or a few grains light (such as 17.6 or so). I measured the powder that was in the other hull that didn't ignite and it was about 17.6 grains.



Here is the primer from one of them, not sure what the thing on the left is, found it next to the primer when i found it
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Old 08-28-2016, 1:58 PM
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Your pictures are terrible and almost impossible to see. Try resizing them before posting. Or change settings on camers.


The piece on the left mentioned is the "anvil". Check this link and scroll down a bit. It shows the components of a shotshell primer.

http://claybuster100.tripod.com/clay...page/id13.html

As a WAG, with what little is known. I would suspect bad primers first. Funky powder second choice.

Try seating primers from same lot in empty hulls and shoot them in your gun.

Funky powder that is burning too slowly can cause problems such as you are experiencing. Rather than a quick "BANG", if the powder burn rate is to slow, coupled with poor ignition. It will 'BURN" not BANG" in the case, this creates a lot of heat in the shell casing. That it is not designed to contain for an extended period. The "dark" appearance of the case head. Did they look like that before you fired them? Or is that the resulting condition "after" firing?

Anything made by man or machine can be made wrong. Crap happens, and that Murphy clown loves reloaders.

If you are experiencing "case head seperation". That is most likely funky overworked hulls. That should have been discarded. Or result from "burn through" due to heat build up from funky slow contaminated powder.

JM2c

Last edited by pacrat; 08-28-2016 at 2:09 PM..
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Old 08-28-2016, 2:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pacrat View Post
Your pictures are terrible and almost impossible to see. Try resizing them before posting. Or change settings on camers.


The piece on the left mentioned is the "anvil". Check this link and scroll down a bit. It shows the components of a shotshell primer.

http://claybuster100.tripod.com/clay...page/id13.html

As a WAG, with what little is known. I would suspect bad primers first. Funky powder second choice.

Try seating primers from same lot in empty hulls and shoot them in your gun.

Funky powder that is burning too slowly can cause problems such as you are experiencing. Rather than a quick "BANG", if the powder burn rate is to slow, coupled with poor ignition. It will 'BURN" not BANG" in the case, this creates a lot of heat in the shell casing. That it is not designed to contain for an extended period. The "dark" appearance of the case head. Did they look like that before you fired them? Or is that the resulting condition "after" firing?

Anything made by man or machine can be made wrong. Crap happens, and that Murphy clown loves reloaders.

If you are experiencing "case head seperation". That is most likely funky overworked hulls. That should have been discarded. Or result from "burn through" due to heat build up from funky slow contaminated powder.

JM2c
First, sorry about the pictures, let me know if those are better

I guessed bad primers as well, as the other 100+ shot perfectly fine before these.

The dark case head is after firing

I inspected the hulls before loading, and didn't see any signs of case head separation, and I'm hoping one didn't "slip by"
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Old 08-28-2016, 2:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 09cs View Post
First, sorry about the pictures, let me know if those are better

I guessed bad primers as well, as the other 100+ shot perfectly fine before these.

The dark case head is after firing

I inspected the hulls before loading, and didn't see any signs of case head separation, and I'm hoping one didn't "slip by"
Pictures now too small, I'm old with bad eyes. OK, J/K, old codger joke out of the way.

Still best guess is primers that "fizzled" instead of "popping". Poor ignition, resulting in slow funky powder burn, heat build up, discolored case heads from heat, squibs, cussing, frustration. All seems to fit.

Bad powder, would be bad for all loads done. Or at least a majority of them.

Get some fresh primers and give it a go.
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Old 08-28-2016, 3:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pacrat View Post
Pictures now too small, I'm old with bad eyes. OK, J/K, old codger joke out of the way.

Still best guess is primers that "fizzled" instead of "popping". Poor ignition, resulting in slow funky powder burn, heat build up, discolored case heads from heat, squibs, cussing, frustration. All seems to fit.

Bad powder, would be bad for all loads done. Or at least a majority of them.

Get some fresh primers and give it a go.
Gah can't win with pictures today!!

And you were right, discolored case head, squib, A LOT of cussing and frustration
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Old 08-28-2016, 5:57 PM
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Default Trouble with shotshells- help please

I would take some of that unburned powder from one of this hulls and see if it invites with a BBQ style lighter outside. If it ignites fast, then maybe you had bad primers. If it sputters and fizzles, contaminated powder...red dot should ignite easily.


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Old 08-29-2016, 6:50 AM
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Plan on emailing Alliant to see if there is any recall on lots of powder
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Old 08-30-2016, 10:57 AM
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I'm guessing contaminated powder. What little of the pic I can see (?) the powder looks kinda clumpy (is that a word? ). Since it didn't happen to all your loads, I'd say something was inside of your shotshell contaminating the powder (oil, water, etc). Shotgun/pistol powder is fairly fast burning powder so something is slowing the burn.

Just my $0.02
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Old 08-30-2016, 3:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky_DiveR View Post
I'm guessing contaminated powder. What little of the pic I can see (?) the powder looks kinda clumpy (is that a word? ). Since it didn't happen to all your loads, I'd say something was inside of your shotshell contaminating the powder (oil, water, etc). Shotgun/pistol powder is fairly fast burning powder so something is slowing the burn.

Just my $0.02
Wet hull was my suspicion. Paper base wad hulls are more known for similar issues. Wet STS hulls shouldn't be an issue this time of year, but who knows about storage/environment. Or perhaps the primer had no access to the powder (no hole, obstruction in shell, etc.). That could explain the badly "pierced" primer with no powder burn.

Only hull I've had somewhat similar was fired without being contained in a chamber (BB gun to primer). Even the very few which skipped the powder charge (assumed) open the crimp more.
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Old 08-30-2016, 6:03 PM
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Regarding the pierced primer, should I replace my firing pin(s)?
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Old 08-30-2016, 10:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 09cs View Post
Regarding the pierced primer, should I replace my firing pin(s)?
If it has significant erosion or no longer functions. But a couple piercings isn't nomally a big concern.
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I won't.
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Old 08-31-2016, 5:28 AM
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Old 08-31-2016, 6:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JagerDog View Post
If it has significant erosion or no longer functions. But a couple piercings isn't nomally a big concern.
Thanks Jager!
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