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  #1  
Old 12-31-2007, 5:52 PM
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Default Highway patrol vs O.L.L.

Well it finally happened,to me anyways. Going from my old fab 10 i was very excited to finish my first OLL build. Me and my cousin decided to go out and sight our rifles at a nearby river bottom where it's legal to shoot. We decided to sight my cousins .17 hmr first and all went well. Then it came time for mine. I have a 16" bushmaster upper with a freefloated handguard built on a doublestar lower with the bullet button. On top was a new millett tactical 4.5x16x50. After making sure it was on paper at 100yds i moved back to 200yds. A few shots later i was within an inch if the bullseye. As my cousin was down the river changing the target i caught movement to the left of me in the bushes. 3 CHP officers with their ar-15s drawn on me. I could see one of them saying something but since i had hearing protection on i could'nt hear a word he was saying. When i finally got them off he was yelling " i said put your hands up, move away from the rifle and get on the ground". The one officer yelling was ticked while the other two were pretty calm. I mentioned that my cousin was down the river so there would'nt be any suprises. One officer went to get him while the ticked one dealt with me. After getting my I.D. and checking me for weapons he went for my rifle. Now is when i start hoping everything iv'e read on these lowers is valid. i watch this officer push the magzine release button with all his might to release the mag and nothing happens i feel a sense of relief until he starts cussing and getting even more ticked. Then i realise he has never dealt with an OLL. and i may be in for a bad day. As he chambered and extracted every round I explained to him what i had. He then wanted to know how i loaded it if the magazine dont come out and i explained that i crack it open. or use a tool to take the magazine out . The other officer finaly shows up with my cousin and both had a smile on their face. As they waited for dispatch to radio back with our info he started on my magazine. You know he has a 20 round magazine in here? I start to tell him it's a 10 round, but he interupts me and says i know the difference between a 10 round and a 20 round magazine. Look i have a thirty round in mine. I finish telling him that it was a 10 round max in a 20 round case. Finally our info came back clear and he asked his partners what they should do. The other officers said it was legal to shoot there but it would be best to pack it up for the day. WE reply with a yes sir and start gathering our stuff. The one officer then tells me "leave your rifle where it is until you get your stuff loaded then come back and pick it up. All in all we got out of there o.k. At first i thought that might be the end of the black rifle for me. I feel as long as you stay within the law and just explain what you have without dictating the laws to an officer you will be fine. I dont blame him for being on edge. Heck i would hate to be up against one of these rifles, but i think he could have assessed the situation a little better like the other officers did. So guys dont be affraid to build your rifle just do it within the laws guidline. If you do get approached by an officer. Look at it from his point of view first before you start demanding your rights.
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  #2  
Old 12-31-2007, 5:56 PM
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Only we can have those! No fair!
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  #3  
Old 12-31-2007, 6:01 PM
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If its legal to shoot there, then you shouldn't have to leave.

Them telling you that you were done for the day is a prime example of SPS (small penis syndrome)
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  #4  
Old 12-31-2007, 6:09 PM
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I think that their department rifles are off limits to modifications and he was jealous... Anyway, good job handling it calmly and assertivvely, that was close! I think that if I was in that situation, I would have wound up with some 5.56 M855 in my upper torso. I'm notoriously deaf in earmuffs.
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  #5  
Old 12-31-2007, 6:09 PM
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Good that everything turned out OK. Too bad that some officers leave a bad impression when you meet them. I said some officers, not all....
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  #6  
Old 12-31-2007, 6:23 PM
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I had a friend that I use to shoot with when I lived in the LA area and he had this saying with regard to the LEO's and Government types that didn't like Law Abiding citizens to own Firearms in general.

His saying was Justice = Just Us. as in Firearms ownership is only for the LEO's and those that supposedly enforce the "LAW".

With regard to the "LAW" I have pretty much always been of the opinion that if there is no victim IE no injured party there is no crime.

And with that the premise that a majority of the so called LAW'S are merely to line the coffers of Government and to control the population not to protect the population.

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  #7  
Old 12-31-2007, 6:26 PM
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where did this happen at? just curious.
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  #8  
Old 12-31-2007, 6:37 PM
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Well handled by you.

The next OLL owners will have a much easier time with all three of those officers because of what you did.


Bravo-Zulu!

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  #9  
Old 12-31-2007, 6:58 PM
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If I were LE and I see a guy who is obviously plinking I think I will have sense enough to conclude that no crime is being committed and I should not waste public funds going after some hick shooting a rifle for pleasure when there are far more criminals deserving to be brought to justice.
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  #10  
Old 12-31-2007, 7:03 PM
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Did they ask or tell you to leave?
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  #11  
Old 12-31-2007, 7:06 PM
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Yeah they told em to pack it up for the day according to the OP.

After the LE verified that it was legal to shoot there

This is where our taxes go.
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  #12  
Old 12-31-2007, 7:07 PM
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I'd rather see them assaulting a crackhouse or meth lab than harassing an innocent sport shooter with those TAXPAYER-FUNDED AR15s. I want to see my sales tax help society, not annoy CalGuns members.
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  #13  
Old 12-31-2007, 7:14 PM
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Quote:
3 CHP officers with their ar-15s drawn on me
Quote:
When i finally got them off he was yelling " i said put your hands up, move away from the rifle and get on the ground".
Get on the ground? exactly how? That CHP officer was definetly sufffering from a dose of SPS (small penis syndrome).
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  #14  
Old 12-31-2007, 7:16 PM
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Too much Rainbow 6.
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  #15  
Old 12-31-2007, 7:20 PM
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Wannabe SWAT? Maybe played a liittle too much Cowboys and Indians as a kid?
SPS? Authority issues?
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  #16  
Old 12-31-2007, 7:24 PM
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Funny how "the law" doesnt know the law. Shouldnt AAA/CHP be out harrassing people about tinted windows and important stuff like that? WTF are they doing in a river bed?
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  #17  
Old 12-31-2007, 7:30 PM
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Originally Posted by FEDUPWBS View Post
Funny how "the law" doesnt know the law. Shouldnt AAA/CHP be out harrassing people about tinted windows and important stuff like that? WTF are they doing in a river bed?
Depending on where the OP is located, CHP does help, assist and take the place of patrol men in some cities / counties. Such as Oakland.
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  #18  
Old 12-31-2007, 7:33 PM
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Tag for more info.. location, etc.
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  #19  
Old 12-31-2007, 7:42 PM
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This is my best guess.
911: 911 Emergency
Scared Hippie: THERE'S 2 MEN WITH A FULL-AUTO MILITARY SNIPER RIFLE IN THE RIVERBED!
911: I'm sending some units your way.
Scared Hippie: THEY'RE SHOOTING SOMEONE!
911: Who?
Scared Hippie: I'm not sure, but they're shooting at something.
911: Attention all units, we have a 12031 possible 187 in progress.

Last edited by Ech0Sierra; 12-31-2007 at 7:47 PM..
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  #20  
Old 12-31-2007, 7:49 PM
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your lucky one of them didnt tackle you through some furniture and break your hip. I do believe there is a video of CHP doing that to someone who had a firearm in a non threatening manner
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  #21  
Old 12-31-2007, 7:51 PM
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I think I just might do a "Hello Kitty" themed AR just to avoid situations like this.
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  #22  
Old 12-31-2007, 7:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FEDUPWBS View Post
Shouldnt AAA/CHP be out harrassing people about tinted windows and important stuff like that? WTF are they doing in a river bed?

Funny s**T..

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Old 12-31-2007, 7:54 PM
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Funny how "the law" doesnt know the law. Shouldnt AAA/CHP be out harrassing people about tinted windows and important stuff like that? WTF are they doing in a river bed?
BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN part 2
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  #24  
Old 12-31-2007, 7:57 PM
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Originally Posted by fast318 View Post
I think I just might do a "Hello Kitty" themed AR just to avoid situations like this.
I bet that pink rifle would have saved me a lot of trouble. I was LOL imagining them showing THAT on the news and saying I was a terrorist.
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Old 12-31-2007, 8:13 PM
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I bet that pink rifle would have saved me a lot of trouble. I was LOL imagining them showing THAT on the news and saying I was a terrorist.
Have you thought about asking those reporters who called you that out for a casual non sexual lunch?
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  #26  
Old 12-31-2007, 8:16 PM
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....

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  #27  
Old 12-31-2007, 8:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SemiAutoSam View Post
With regard to the "LAW" I have pretty much always been of the opinion that if there is no victim IE no injured party there is no crime.
Aye, there's the rub. How do you define "injury"? A simple definition is easily extended. Start with threatening to hit somebody -- no injury? Well, how about taking a swing at somebody and intentionally missing by a inch. No injury. How about threatening to shoot somebody? How about taking a gun out and aiming it but not actually shooting? How about shooting but intentionally missing? Does that last crime involve only possible hearing damage?

See, no injury, no crime. And if there is no crime, are you entitled to swing back or shoot back (or first)?

This gets extended into an injury because the threat gave you good cause to think you might be injured.

Then the nanny staters extend this into mere possession of a gun. Loading up your car for a trip to the range? Oooh, that's scary! I was worried for my kids' sake! It could have gone off by accident!

There is no clear difference between harmless threat and actual damage. When you move the most obvious non-injury threats, like shooting to miss, into the category of injury and crime, then the next most obvious non-injury threats come to the fore, like brandishing a loadedgun, then just carrying, then mere possession.

I have no idea what the solution is. It's not as easy as telling the nanny staters to get a grip. It's just human nature. Deal with the big problems and the smaller problems suddenly look bigger. The better something is, the more the small imperfections stand out. There simply is not clear cut difference between actual injury and threat of injury. I'd hate to think that aiming a loaded gun would not be considered a crime, but where is the injury?
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  #28  
Old 12-31-2007, 8:22 PM
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Wow. Interesting 1st post ever..Welcome to the forum..Is that you Iggy?

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Old 12-31-2007, 8:22 PM
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He did define it. There has to be a victim. If I "almost" hit someone, there is still a victim (that someone). I'm not sure that should be much more than an infraction unless there is an underlying crime like extortion, but still there is a victim. If I just own something, who is the victim?
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Old 12-31-2007, 8:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ech0Sierra View Post
This is my best guess.
911: 911 Emergency
Scared Hippie: THERE'S 2 MEN WITH A FULL-AUTO MILITARY SNIPER RIFLE IN THE RIVERBED!
911: I'm sending some units your way.
Scared Hippie: THEY'RE SHOOTING SOMEONE!
911: Who?
Scared Hippie: I'm not sure, but they're shooting at something.
911: Attention all units, we have a 12031 possible 187 in progress.
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  #31  
Old 12-31-2007, 8:57 PM
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Calif. Highway Patrol = "AAA with a gun"

Sad, but true. Ever since the State Police & CHP were "joined". The professionalism & quality has gone downhill.
Remember the "Chiefs Syndrome"?
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  #32  
Old 12-31-2007, 9:04 PM
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You've been around since the Fab 10 days and this is your first post?
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Old 12-31-2007, 10:22 PM
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Only in California will you hear some B.S. like this.
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Old 12-31-2007, 10:33 PM
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Shizzle!

I wonder what they would have done if they saw me shooting one of my (California legal) AKs?

They were probably just jealous because your rifle was nicer than theirs!!!

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Old 12-31-2007, 10:33 PM
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Old 12-31-2007, 10:48 PM
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i thought that chp was limited to using mini 14s due to the ar being considered to 'militaristic in the publics eye'.
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Old 12-31-2007, 11:16 PM
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CHP currently is issued National Guard surplus M-16 as I recall from news clips. This happened after the shootout with the bank robbers that were wearing body armor
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Old 01-01-2008, 12:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FEDUPWBS View Post
Shouldnt AAA/CHP be out harrassing people about tinted windows and important stuff like that?
WTF are they doing in a river bed?
That's what I was wondering...
Perhaps the OP was too close to the road if the CHP could actually hear them shooting.
What's the state law say on distance you have to be from a public highway?
Seems that the CHP (what's the middle letter stand for?) ought to be working the "H"...
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Old 01-01-2008, 1:16 AM
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Quote:
What's the state law say on distance you have to be from a public highway?
Seems that the CHP (what's the middle letter stand for?) ought to be working the "H"...
Calif. Vehicle Section 360:

Quote:
"Highway" is a way or place of whatever nature, publicly maintained and open to the use of the public for purposes of vehicular travel. Highway includes street.
Without another post by the OP, there is no way of knowing how close to the road they were, but the CHP could have jurisdiction whether it be the Highway that many may think is referring to a fwy. or just a street.

Also, generally speaking, within the state of Ca., the CHP handle all traffic/traffic accidents in unincorporated county areas. They can also handle crime. So, contrary to what some of the public believe (I'm not saying anyone here does), the CHP can become involved in traffic/crime situations on incidents in areas described in 360vc.

Also, police officers and deputies can cite on the fwys., even tho I sometimes had people tell me I couldn't. I didn't go looking for it, but there were fwys. in my area that we had to drive on to get from one area to another. If I saw a flagrant violation, I'd cite.

As far as the officer's confronting the OP with their rifles, what would you have them do; leave their rifles in their cars, walk down thier with a cup of coffee in one hand and a donut in another and just begin chit chatting with the OP who has an unknown type weapon with him.

Whether or not they received a call about someone shooting, with what may have appeared to be to the caller, an assault weapon or they regularly check that area out because there may have been problems in the past with some shooters (which of course we don't know, so this is conjecture); does nothing to negate the fact they need to practice officer safety methods to ensure they go home at the end of their shift (sorry for the long sentence). I don't know that I would have put him on the ground since there were three of us, but I definitely would have had him put his weapon on the ground and had him back up to check the weapon out. Once it was determined legal, I would have told them to have a nice day shooting and left.

Just because it is a legal shooting range, doesn't mean the shooters are legal. Lytle Creek in the old days and Pigeon Pass off of Hwy 39 in the Azusa mtns. are just two areas that come to mind where gangbangers used to go to shoot their full autos AKs/ARs. I was working the latter when it was closed overnight whe a public works guy got shot after he had driven by about a 1/4 mile.

I'm not addressing the one officer who, per the OP, was yelling and appeared angry with him, I'm merely addressing those who thought the officers shouldn't have approached him similarly armed.

For a moment, put yourself in their shoes, their mindset and what limited info they had and think how you would have approached the OP.

The OP is to be commended for his demeanor and overall handling of the situation, including advising them there was another downrange.

Last edited by retired; 01-01-2008 at 1:28 AM..
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Old 01-01-2008, 6:29 AM
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Sorry for not checking in guys, new years plans. There is a river bed off of HWY 152 between red top and Dos palos (cenral cali) that is a popular shooting area. There is brass all over the place from .17 to 30.06. We also ride quads in the area so we set up in a position where we had a sand hill backdrop to ensure our bullets would bury, and good visibility in all directions. We also got there at the crack of dawn before most people are out. It's hard to say why CHP showed up. If nearby ranchers heard the shots, or if we were spotted from the highway by someone who didnt know the area. Yeah i've been around since the fab 10. In fact it's still sitting in my safe. I never really liked it so i didnt shoot it much. It was'nt til rescently that i got wind of O.L.L.s and started researching them. All seemed like it was on the up and up so i built one. My first time out with it to sight it in and this happens. I'll tell you when i was sitting there i did'nt want anything to do with this gun anymore. It took a while for me to re-focus and realize that i had nothing to worry about...gun wise. I looked at my gun in pieces. Scope (legal), upper- no bayonete lug no flash hider (target crown) no tactical rails (free-floated) no problem, butt-stock -ace skeleton (i'm good), total length 34" (sweet), Lower- bullet button installed and officer could not release it (oh yeah). My only concern was the empty mag i had and the full one in my pocket (10 rounders of course). I really was trying to avoid the reload issue. Even though my rifle did'nt have some of the features listed above i shouldnt have worried if it did. As long as it was'nt shorter than 30" and my mags were only ten rounds, and i had a mag lock device, i was good. I'm just glad they did'nt come up when i was reloading and my mag well was empty. I may have froze and not got the magazine in. Now i know to be aware when loading a mag. Have your fresh one ready and do it quickly. It would also be good practice to look around first. I think the one officer that was cool headed asked us to pack it up for the day in order to just get us out of there. The ticked officer was looking for something to get us on.
I know this was my first post, but i have been around here often picking you brains. I do think this encounter would encourage others that might be a little leary on building this type of rifle to go ahead and do it. Just learn what you can from this site. It has all the answers. Lastly i would like to thank all the members of this site for all your information. It's been a great guide on my build and has kept it legal.
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