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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 08-03-2013, 10:17 AM
c good c good is offline
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Default DPMS "Low Profile" .308 upper. Why?

What is the advantage of this? What are the disadvantages? Confused...c good
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  #2  
Old 08-03-2013, 10:31 AM
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The low profile sits flush with the majority of the 308 handguards on the market, the older higher dpms receiver sat higher and looks terrible...see below.








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  #3  
Old 08-03-2013, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowofnight View Post
The low profile sits flush with the majority of the 308 handguards on the market, the older higher dpms receiver sat higher and looks terrible...see below.
Actually, the majority of the handguards are/were the high profile. Only in the last year or two have companies started to make rails to match the low profile.

The only advantages I've found for the lower profile are:
1. When using a gas block mounted front sight. You don't have to buy a taller sight post for an AR15 sight or buy the special, taller AR10 sight.
2. They are a little lighter than the taller version.

Disadvantages:
1. Not as many rail options for the lower profile.

Last edited by lwbyo1; 08-03-2013 at 11:09 AM..
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Old 08-03-2013, 2:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lwbyo1 View Post
Actually, the majority of the handguards are/were the high profile. Only in the last year or two have companies started to make rails to match the low profile.

The only advantages I've found for the lower profile are:
1. When using a gas block mounted front sight. You don't have to buy a taller sight post for an AR15 sight or buy the special, taller AR10 sight.
2. They are a little lighter than the taller version.

Disadvantages:
1. Not as many rail options for the lower profile.

Last year building my LR-308 based 260 Remington, it was about 50/50 what I saw out on the market....last month building my 308 upper there were more low profile handguards available .

Nobody is going to be tooling up new designs to the old standard , the new LR-308 standard is the lower height receiver.
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Old 08-04-2013, 1:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowofnight View Post
Last year building my LR-308 based 260 Remington, it was about 50/50 what I saw out on the market....last month building my 308 upper there were more low profile handguards available .

Nobody is going to be tooling up new designs to the old standard , the new LR-308 standard is the lower height receiver.
Up until mid 2009, everyone used the higher height upper. That's when DPMS decided to change the height of their uppers. Everyone else kept the higher height. So you trying to say that DPMS is the standard is amusing. Seriously, LMAO!

There are only a few other companies that use the lower height upper, everyone else uses the higher height upper. Knights Armament, Armalite, Fulton Armory, Mega MATEN, CMMG, JD Machine and quite a few others I'm too tired to think of right now.

Rail Manufacturers:

High Only:
Knight's
Fulton
Daniel Defense
SWS
Centurion

Low Only:
DPMS
GRG

Both High and Low:
Apex
Samson
Troy

I know there are some I'm missing from each list. Everyone feel free to add to it.

shadowofnight, please enlighten us all to the rest of these smart companies that only make handguards for the lower height uppers.

Last edited by lwbyo1; 08-04-2013 at 1:14 PM.. Reason: Added more upper manufacturers
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  #6  
Old 08-04-2013, 2:38 PM
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Advantages. DPMS had the first rails that fit and made money on the change. Disadvantage, it was annoying and now companies have to make both heights for customers.
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  #7  
Old 08-05-2013, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lwbyo1 View Post
Up until mid 2009, everyone used the higher height upper. That's when DPMS decided to change the height of their uppers. Everyone else kept the higher height. So you trying to say that DPMS is the standard is amusing. Seriously, LMAO!

There are only a few other companies that use the lower height upper, everyone else uses the higher height upper. Knights Armament, Armalite, Fulton Armory, Mega MATEN, CMMG, JD Machine and quite a few others I'm too tired to think of right now.

Rail Manufacturers:

High Only:
Knight's
Fulton
Daniel Defense
SWS
Centurion

Low Only:
DPMS
GRG

Both High and Low:
Apex
Samson
Troy

I know there are some I'm missing from each list. Everyone feel free to add to it.

shadowofnight, please enlighten us all to the rest of these smart companies that only make handguards for the lower height uppers.

Take a look at the new S&W M&P10 308 , when they chose their upper receiver rail height...guess which one they chose.

Straight from S&W support...

" The barrel does have a durable corrosion resistant coating inside and out. (Nitride/Melonite type coating.) We have found in our testing the this process is better than chrome lining, and offer protection internally and externally, and has better barrel life. The Barrel also features 5R rifling for decreased fouling and better accuracy. The M&P10 is compatible with the DPMS Lo-profile compatible rails. (Please be aware there are several types of so called "standards" for .308 AR rails. (Armalite, DPMS hi-profile, DPMS lo-profile ) "

Do you think S&W is going to be a nice sized chunk of the 308 AR market ?

And when those hoards of people want to replace their plastic handguards, whose standard will they be looking for....yes...the DPMS Low profile height.

That takes care of the largest factory needs for 308 AR handguards.




Now for home built

Right now, lets go to one of the largest most popular firearms sites there is...MidwayUSA.


They only sell the new A3 ( Low Profile rail ) upper receiver by itself....they dont even offer the older high profile. And they are selling a LOT of the A3 upper receivers, numerous friends of mine bought at least 1...I bought 3 of them.


As for complete uppers, they sell 10 of them...

7 of them use the A3 Low profile rail

3 of them use the high rail




Lets look at the handguards by themselves ( Only counting the railed handguards that the rail extends back to the upper receiver )

They sell 9 of them for LR-308 ( Not counting the railed one in AR-10 )

5 are low profile

5 are high profile ( But the really funny part is some of the dummies that bought the high handguards, actually had LOW receivers...example...

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/657...aluminum-black

" The only issue is that the top rail is slightly higher than the rail on the upper receiver. Not by much, but it is not level. "

His problem was he should have bought a low handguard.




Basically, whether or not anybody likes it or not...the newer A3 low height is the new LR-308 standard. You will continue to see more and more A3's and less and less of the higher rail....so if you are buying or building NEW...why would you bother with the older standard ?


That was basically all I was saying from the beginning.


But the Key is below....

With DPMS selling the raw A3 receivers by the truckload, and Smith and Wesson picking the A3 low height for their new factory M&P10....you will see even more of the A3/low handguards soon.




How was that for enlightenment
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  #8  
Old 08-05-2013, 6:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowofnight View Post
The low profile sits flush with the majority of the 308 handguards on the market.
Incorrect! Maybe sits flush with the majority of what Midway sells, but not the majority of what's available on the market.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowofnight View Post
Last year building my LR-308 based 260 Remington, it was about 50/50 what I saw out on the market....last month building my 308 upper there were more low profile handguards available .

Nobody is going to be tooling up new designs to the old standard , the new LR-308 standard is the lower height receiver.
Incorrect! Why would you think that companies would stop making handguards for the standard, higher height uppers when the majority of manufacturers use that height? What you're going to see are more companies making lower height handguards to go along with their standard height ones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowofnight View Post
Take a look at the new S&W M&P10 308 , when they chose their upper receiver rail height...guess which one they chose.

They probably chose the lower height upper for the same reason they went with a pencil profile barrel, to keep the weight down. That's just an assumption on my part, but I believe a reasonable one.

Straight from S&W support...

" The barrel does have a durable corrosion resistant coating inside and out. (Nitride/Melonite type coating.) We have found in our testing the this process is better than chrome lining, and offer protection internally and externally, and has better barrel life. The Barrel also features 5R rifling for decreased fouling and better accuracy. The M&P10 is compatible with the DPMS Lo-profile compatible rails. (Please be aware there are several types of so called "standards" for .308 AR rails. (Armalite, DPMS hi-profile, DPMS lo-profile ) "

Do you think S&W is going to be a nice sized chunk of the 308 AR market ?

And when those hoards of people want to replace their plastic handguards, whose standard will they be looking for....yes...the DPMS Low profile height.

That takes care of the largest factory needs for 308 AR handguards.

I'm well aware that S&W went with the lower height. That was one of the companies I was referring too when I said "There are only a few other companies that use the lower height upper". There is also Remington and Bushmaster. Though it's hard to include them because Remington and Bushmaster are basically re-branded DPMS rifles (all 3 owned by the same company). But to be fair, I will.

Back to S&W. The only thing they share is the upper height and barrel nut. Other then that, everything else is proprietary. You cannot put a DPMS upper on the S&W lower, or visa-versa, they won't mate up. You can't use DPMS barrels or BCG's, the bolts and barrel extensions won't mate. You are stuck with whatever S&W has for aftermarket parts. So if just being able to put an aftermarket handguard on the S&W is enough for you, enjoy.



Now for home built

Right now, lets go to one of the largest most popular firearms sites there is...MidwayUSA.


They only sell the new A3 ( Low Profile rail ) upper receiver by itself....they dont even offer the older high profile. And they are selling a LOT of the A3 upper receivers, numerous friends of mine bought at least 1...I bought 3 of them.

That's because they ONLY sell DPMS uppers, and DPMS hasn't made a standard, higher height upper since 2009.


As for complete uppers, they sell 10 of them...

7 of them use the A3 Low profile rail

3 of them use the high rail

Again, that's because they only sell DPMS. Not because it's the standard, but because that's what is readily available for them to sell.

Not really the high profile we're talking about. Those 3 are extra high for optics. Sorry, had to throw that in there.




Lets look at the handguards by themselves ( Only counting the railed handguards that the rail extends back to the upper receiver )

They sell 9 of them for LR-308 ( Not counting the railed one in AR-10 )

5 are low profile

5 are high profile ( But the really funny part is some of the dummies that bought the high handguards, actually had LOW receivers...example...

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/657...aluminum-black

" The only issue is that the top rail is slightly higher than the rail on the upper receiver. Not by much, but it is not level. "

His problem was he should have bought a low handguard.

The problem here is that you're basing your assumptions on what one retailer is selling. They only carry the DPMS uppers, so of course they're going to sell the stuff that goes with it. Under your reasoning, if Walmart chose to only sell Tula Ammo, then they would become the standard in ammunition. It doesn't work like that.

Basically, whether or not anybody likes it or not...the newer A3 low height is the new LR-308 standard. You will continue to see more and more A3's and less and less of the higher rail....so if you are buying or building NEW...why would you bother with the older standard?

That was basically all I was saying from the beginning.

There you go assuming again. There will be a lot of builds with DPMS A3 uppers. Not because that's the standard, but because DPMS is making them semi-cheap and they're more readily available then other brands.


But the Key is below....

With DPMS selling the raw A3 receivers by the truckload, and Smith and Wesson picking the A3 low height for their new factory M&P10....you will see even more of the A3/low handguards soon.

There are going to be more lower profile handguards popping up. Companies want to make money and that's a market they can tap to do it. Still doesn't make them the standard.

I talked to one company rep and they don't want to bother making them. I was trying to see if they'd make a DPMS barrel nut to sell with their AR10 handguard for the higher height uppers. Basically he said, "A lot of the people are too stupid or lazy to figure out what height handguard they need and we don't want to have to deal with it when they want to return it, after they've installed it, because they got the wrong one." That's not exactly how he said it, but that's basically what he was saying. So who knows how many other companies feel the same way.







How was that for enlightenment

Actually, I think that's what I'm suppose to be asking you now.

Last edited by lwbyo1; 08-05-2013 at 6:46 PM..
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