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View Poll Results: What is the best day for the Prec/Tact Rifle Match at APS?
Saturday 7 58.33%
Sunday 3 25.00%
Doesn't matter 2 16.67%
Voters: 12. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 12-22-2007, 9:09 PM
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Default APS Matches Sat or Sunday?

We are going over the match schedule for the coming year and are thinking of changing the match from Sat to Sunday. WHat do y'all think?
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  #2  
Old 12-22-2007, 9:11 PM
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I'm good for either but I believe a couple of the guys have church on sundays.
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  #3  
Old 12-22-2007, 9:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Timberwolf View Post
We are going over the match schedule for the coming year and are thinking of changing the match from Sat to Sunday. WHat do y'all think?
I say night matches on Saturday and morning matches on Sunday. It would suck to shoot on Sunday evening and have to work the following morning.
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  #4  
Old 12-22-2007, 9:50 PM
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i say saturday is better. leaves the weekend more open to do other things like church, etc.

sunday is okay too, but like in the afternoon would be great.

Last edited by PistolPete75; 12-22-2007 at 9:58 PM..
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Old 12-23-2007, 6:11 AM
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As clarification - night matches would be on Sat night - the day match would be a morning match - remember I have to close the entire range for portions of the match, hence I can't do it in the afternoon.
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Old 12-23-2007, 6:49 AM
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I'm always booked Sundays with church and all. I like the Saturday matches the best. Sunday mornings I think would be harder for people to get away.
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  #7  
Old 12-23-2007, 4:39 PM
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Saturday nights and sunday mornings so I can go.
If it has to be saturday, make it the 1st saturday of the month.
That's my only free saturday.
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  #8  
Old 12-23-2007, 5:51 PM
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Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
Saturday nights and sunday mornings so I can go.
If it has to be saturday, make it the 1st saturday of the month.
That's my only free saturday.
First saturady of the month are the vegas PR matches. What Sunday's are the WEGC PR matches?
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  #9  
Old 12-23-2007, 6:42 PM
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First saturady of the month are the vegas PR matches.
What Sunday's are the WEGC PR matches?
2nd sunday of the month at WEGC.
Vegas is far enough away that we don't have to worry about confilicting with them.
If you look hard enough, I'm sure you will find other matches on any given weekend day in phoenix, bakersfield, san diego etc...
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Old 12-23-2007, 7:25 PM
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Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
2nd sunday of the month at WEGC.
Vegas is far enough away that we don't have to worry about confilicting with them.
If you look hard enough, I'm sure you will find other matches on any given weekend day in phoenix, bakersfield, san diego etc...
Well since I'm 45 minutes from Bakersfield and 3.5 hours from Las Vegas, those conflict. APS and the Vegas matches are the only ones held on Saturdays and I hit them both every month. Heck, its probably 2.5hrs for me to get to WEGC. I've become accustomed to spending a little time on the road to get to these matches.
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  #11  
Old 12-23-2007, 7:28 PM
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let's have people vote that are actually going to attend the matches. i think this is a fair statement to say.
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  #12  
Old 12-23-2007, 7:31 PM
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Well since I'm 45 minutes from Bakersfield
I was going to make some smart *** comment about being only 45 minutes from Bakersfield no longer qualifying you from living in SOUTHERN california, but I could not come up with a witty enough reply so this is all you get.
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Old 12-23-2007, 7:32 PM
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Originally Posted by PistolPete75 View Post
let's have people vote that are actually going to attend the matches. i think this is a fair statement to say.
I plan on it every month. Its a great match with a great group of guys. If its on Sundays, I'll have to bow out of the day matches. Just too many other commitments on Sundays. Saturday nights are still a go, however.
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  #14  
Old 12-23-2007, 7:35 PM
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I was going to make some smart *** comment about being only 45 minutes from Bakersfield no longer qualifying you from living in SOUTHERN california, but I could not come up with a witty enough reply so this is all you get.
Truth be told, the farther away I am from the big cities of socal, the better. I like being able to go 10 minutes from my house and shoot without anyone around me. Or getting off of work during deer season and hunting every evening. Or waking up in the morning and seeing this out of my front window:



I grew up in Westchester, and after moving here, I'd never go back.

Last edited by rksimple; 12-23-2007 at 7:42 PM..
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  #15  
Old 12-23-2007, 7:43 PM
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Originally Posted by PistolPete75 View Post
let's have people vote that are actually going to attend the matches. i think this is a fair statement to say.
I vote for sundays SO THAT I can attend them.
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  #16  
Old 12-23-2007, 7:46 PM
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Originally Posted by rksimple View Post
Truth be told, the farther away I am from the big cities of socal, the better.
I like being able to go 10 minutes from my house and shoot without anyone around me.
Or getting off of work during deer season and hunting every evening.
I did not say it was bad thing to not live in southern ca.
I wish I could get out of here too.
Phoenix/Mesa is calling me.
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  #17  
Old 12-23-2007, 8:13 PM
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I plan on it every month. Its a great match with a great group of guys. If its on Sundays, I'll have to bow out of the day matches. Just too many other commitments on Sundays. Saturday nights are still a go, however.
The APS matches will be best for me on saturdays also. Sundays will be very iffy for me.

If it goes to Sundays, I might have to start shooting at ShootingByYourSelf matches, or go drive my butt to Techachapi.
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  #18  
Old 12-23-2007, 8:15 PM
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If not the 1st saturday, how about 3rd saturdays?
Does that conflict with any other matches?
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  #19  
Old 12-23-2007, 8:29 PM
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If not the 1st saturday, how about 3rd saturdays?
Does that conflict with any other matches?
Not that I know of or shoot in. Bill puts on a good match and its always a good time.

Pete-I want to work on a match, or at least a yearly shoot, out on my father in laws mine claim. It would be a hoot to have 1000 acres or so to work with!
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Old 12-23-2007, 8:54 PM
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Not that I know of or shoot in. Bill puts on a good match and its always a good time.

Pete-I want to work on a match, or at least a yearly shoot, out on my father in laws mine claim. It would be a hoot to have 1000 acres or so to work with!
shoot, i can help. i'll be some type of an assistant. i can also help promote it. mayby we can get some vendors to sponser. hmmm....might work well. there is a possibility to make a couple of g's.

we can make it a real tactical match which ukds, cbs, stress factors, multiple hold under shots, etc. that'll be fun!

Last edited by PistolPete75; 12-23-2007 at 8:57 PM..
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  #21  
Old 12-23-2007, 9:01 PM
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there is a possibility to make a couple of g's.
That should not even be a factor that's considered when starting a new match.
It's already hard enough to get sponsors for matches with no previous attendence history to show off.
It's even harder if you are not a "known entity" that has done matches before.
Running big matches is thankless work.
Just ask anyone that has done it.
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Old 12-23-2007, 9:06 PM
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That should not even be a factor that's considered when starting a new match.
It's already hard enough to get sponsors for matches with no previous attendence history to show off.
It's even harder if you are not a "known entity" that has done matches before.
Running big matches is thankless work.
Just ask anyone that has done it.
My only concern are the possible legal issues if someone were to fall and get hurt, or fall victim to any other accident, and want to sue. I have to get that squared away first.
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Old 12-23-2007, 9:11 PM
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My only concern are the possible legal issues if someone were to fall and get hurt, or fall victim to any other accident, and want to sue. I have to get that squared away first.
Waivers.
Insurance. (where all the money goes)
This is why you coordinate matches through an already-setup club that has the legalities all worked out.
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Old 12-23-2007, 9:18 PM
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Waivers.
Insurance. (where all the money goes)
This is why you coordinate matches through an already-setup club that has the legalities all worked out.
The problems with the already setup clubs is that they don't have 1000 acres to make 10-15 different stages all involving 500+ yard shots. That would be nice. I wonder how they do it at ASC as thats the type of match I had in mind. I'll have to send those guys an email. Or maybe it'll be an Area 51 type match...that never happened...really...
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Old 12-23-2007, 9:29 PM
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500yard+ stages would be awesome! plus a stage shooting downhill in a steep decline would be great, like a rooftop shot.

i also would like to try team matches too. might be interesting to shoot in one of those also.
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Old 12-23-2007, 9:33 PM
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The problems with the already setup clubs is that they don't have 1000 acres to make 10-15 different stages all involving 500+ yard shots.
How many shooters do you expect to attract?
How many days will the match be?

10-15 stages is a HUGE undertaking if there are multiple targets on each stage.
You are going to need a lot of steel and LaRue targets or flashers are the way to go at these ranges because you (the RO) often can't reliably call hits on static steel.
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Old 12-23-2007, 9:36 PM
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Randall, it's all just for fun talking at this point. ya know, like brainstroming. don't take it too seriously. have fun man, that's why we all shoot right?
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Old 12-23-2007, 9:44 PM
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Randall, it's all just for fun talking at this point. ya know, like brainstroming. don't take it too seriously. have fun man, that's why we all shoot right?
Sorry, my past experience is speaking.

Shooting IS the fun part.
Running matches is just work.
At BIG matches, the organizers don't even get to shoot.
They send the day driving around and putting out fires.
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Old 12-23-2007, 9:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
How many shooters do you expect to attract?
How many days will the match be?

10-15 stages is a HUGE undertaking if there are multiple targets on each stage.
You are going to need a lot of steel and LaRue targets or flashers are the way to go at these ranges because you (the RO) often can't reliably call hits on static steel.
The ASC is/was done on the honor system. Every shooter kept his/her own score and it seemed to work well for them. Other shooters would be spotters as well. Theres no way around lots of steel, although some stages would have paper too.

Heres a pic of some of the claim:



Heres one of blasting going on, but it gives you an idea of the angles that could be involved:

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Old 12-23-2007, 10:07 PM
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If you want help putting on a match let me know and I'll help set it up with you. There's a lot involved behind the scenes before you even get to the 1st stage, believe me when I tell you there's alot involved in working out COFs to make them not only stressfully realistic but doable as well. Also you'll put very little in your pocket once you cover targets, frames, steel, timers, copying, and the personal time you spend promoting, setting up, running, tearing down etc. Start small and then once you're known and get your baptism then try a big one if you want. Mark ran his matches for 2.5 years before he did SCPRC, VU did the same before NorCal and Area 51 came together with the help of Mark and Kurt, both experienced match directors.

Now as an example of what I'm talking about one of the reasons that we're looking at Sunday matches is because with Sat morning matches I have to take a vacation day from work on Fridays to do all the prep work involved before the match at APS. I don't mind doing it and have the vacation time if that's what it takes . . . but I thought I'd see what the concensus was.
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Old 12-23-2007, 10:11 PM
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If you want help putting on a match let me know and I'll help set it up with you. There's a lot involved behind the scenes before you even get to the 1st stage, believe me when I tell you there's alot involved in working out COFs to make them not only stressfully realistic but doable as well. Also you'll put very little in your pocket once you cover targets, frames, steel, timers, copying, and the personal time you spend promoting, setting up, running, tearing down etc. Start small and then once you're known and get your baptism then try a big one if you want. Mark ran his matches for 2.5 years before he did SCPRC, VU did the same before NorCal and Area 51 came together with the help of Mark and Kurt, both experienced match directors.

Now as an example of what I'm talking about one of the reasons that we're looking at Sunday matches is because with Sat morning matches I have to take a vacation day from work on Fridays to do all the prep work involved before the match at APS. I don't mind doing it and have the vacation time if that's what it takes . . . but I thought I'd see what the concensus was.
I think the best thing to do first would be to have an area 51 type thing out there. Kurt shoots for free if he brings some steel! That would give some of the shooters that have been to a quite a few local matches to give some input on the location. From there, who knows.
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Old 12-23-2007, 10:14 PM
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That sounds good - I've got some steel, poppers, bases and frames. Talk Kurt into his mover set up.
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Old 12-23-2007, 10:35 PM
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Now as an example of what I'm talking about one of the reasons that we're looking at Sunday matches is because with Sat morning matches I have to take a vacation day from work on Fridays to do all the prep work involved before the match at APS. I don't mind doing it and have the vacation time if that's what it takes . . . but I thought I'd see what the concensus was.
That's kinda what I would have guessed too.
To hold a GOOD morning match, you almost always set it up the day before.
We do that for our WEGC Action Pistol and 3Gun matches as well.
Putting matches on sundays gives you those few hours of setup on saturday evening instead of on friday.
Nobody wants to show up at 4am and setup in the dark for an 8:00am match.
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Old 12-24-2007, 6:21 AM
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That's kinda what I would have guessed too.
To hold a GOOD morning match, you almost always set it up the day before.
We do that for our WEGC Action Pistol and 3Gun matches as well.
Putting matches on sundays gives you those few hours of setup on saturday evening instead of on friday.
Nobody wants to show up at 4am and setup in the dark for an 8:00am match.
At Kurts matches in Vegas, everyone gets to the range at about 730-800. Everyone helps setting the targets and its done in about 1/2 an hour. The setup at APS isn't quite as conducive to that, due to the topography, but we're willing to help if we can, Bill.
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Old 12-24-2007, 6:34 AM
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The biggest problem is time . . . since we can only shoot the low stages (by the office) when the range is closed, which means for a morning match before 0800. Prep work generally takes 2 - 4 hours depending on what props have to be done, etc etc.
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Old 12-24-2007, 7:32 AM
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I hear ya'. We could always just shoot the buff because its already setup. Then have another paper stage closer. Maybe setup a couple of smaller steels up on the hill that can remain there. I hear you guys have some great stuff in store for this year. I look forward to it!
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Old 12-24-2007, 7:46 AM
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Originally Posted by rksimple View Post
I hear ya'. We could always just shoot the buff because its already setup. Then have another paper stage closer. Maybe setup a couple of smaller steels up on the hill that can remain there. I hear you guys have some great stuff in store for this year. I look forward to it!
The buff? Being able to spot your shots against the hillside would be much too easy compared to the current 1/30 hit probability
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Old 12-24-2007, 8:32 AM
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i could help out too. i don't mind.

i think we have to work on our cbs, more than anything else.

i noticed by first shots of the day are the worst, and then it starts tightning up. i might buy a .22 bolt action too, and start practicing with it. anyone know of a .22 bolt action to buy that will hold 1moa or less? i might end up yanking my brother's ruger. hehee
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Old 12-24-2007, 8:49 AM
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i could help out too. i don't mind.

i think we have to work on our cbs, more than anything else.

i noticed by first shots of the day are the worst, and then it starts tightning up. i might buy a .22 bolt action too, and start practicing with it. anyone know of a .22 bolt action to buy that will hold 1moa or less? i might end up yanking my brother's ruger. hehee
Al's Ruger should hold 1MOA easily. If I recall correctly, all you need to buy is a new scope base and you're ready to go. Look into picking up some Wolf Match .22 as it is known to be the most affordable yet accurate ammo. I've confirmed it myself and it holds true for my rifle. If you're unhappy with its current performance, $100 for a new Green Mountain barrel and/or a bedding job should take car of everything.
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Old 12-24-2007, 1:16 PM
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My Savage MkII will hold under 1 MOA
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