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  #1  
Old 07-21-2013, 11:58 AM
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Default Saiga 12 FTE

Anyone have excessive FTE on their Saiga 12? Not broken in yet and probably have less than 100 rds through it. Cycles fine on the first 15 rds using military grade 00 buck then FTE's. Using factory 5 rd mags but I do have Promag 10rds and a 10rd drum as well. I dont believe its the mags since I used more of the factory 5rd mag to test. Selector set at 1. FTE's everytime on deer slugs. Extractor works fine. Cleaned every time I shoot. Well lubricated. Dont think the Kvar handguard I installed is blocking the ports. Also put the original guard but still had cycling issues. How many rounds before I break this in and have it stop doing FTE's or does buying the after market auto plug work like this one http://www.mississippiautoarms.com/s...ck-p-1531.html . Getting frustrated on this and I want it to work since Saiga 12's are bad*****! I appreciate any experience and solutions you may have.

Last edited by carval23; 07-21-2013 at 12:06 PM..
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  #2  
Old 07-21-2013, 12:06 PM
Sam .223 Sam .223 is offline
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fte's are usually an under gassed problem, you'll need to see how many ports are in the gas block/barrel and what size they are. an auto plug will not do anything for this problem, usually people have issues with the lower end target stuff not the high brass slugs and buck.
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  #3  
Old 07-21-2013, 1:23 PM
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Are you not cycling with the 00 buck or are you not cycling with birdshot?

If its birdshot, have you tried setting the gas plug on 2?

Also, take out your plug and make sure the puck is moving freely and not gummed up inside.

A lot of people talk about the port problem or "vodka specials" but that is an old problem that went away years ago with a bad production run of Saiga 12s that was mis-drilled as Saiga 20s.

I myself have thought of the autoplug but its just another complicated device that can go sour on you. Try the MDArms plug or the Gunfixxers plug. Its a simple replacement of the stock plug and has 4 settings that routes the gas better towards the puck than the stock plug.
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  #4  
Old 07-21-2013, 1:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam .223 View Post
fte's are usually an under gassed problem, you'll need to see how many ports are in the gas block/barrel and what size they are. an auto plug will not do anything for this problem, usually people have issues with the lower end target stuff not the high brass slugs and buck.
I believe so too but the ports already have the three holes in it that many say to drill. Piston is not gumming up and moving freely. The shell swells in the chamber and gets stuck.
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Old 07-21-2013, 1:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagedude88 View Post
Are you not cycling with the 00 buck or are you not cycling with birdshot?

If its birdshot, have you tried setting the gas plug on 2?

Also, take out your plug and make sure the puck is moving freely and not gummed up inside.

A lot of people talk about the port problem or "vodka specials" but that is an old problem that went away years ago with a bad production run of Saiga 12s that was mis-drilled as Saiga 20s.

I myself have thought of the autoplug but its just another complicated device that can go sour on you. Try the MDArms plug or the Gunfixxers plug. Its a simple replacement of the stock plug and has 4 settings that routes the gas better towards the puck than the stock plug.
No birdshots, its deer slugs. 00 buck cycles fine but then FTE's after 10-15 rds. Seems like it does it once barrel heats up. Not sure. Actually a lot of people mention about the plugs with 7 settings on it. That resolved one of the issues one guy was experiencing with different rounds. I'll give that a try and report back. If it doesnt work, I'll have to see if they will do warrany work on a converted saiga. Thanks.
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  #6  
Old 07-21-2013, 1:38 PM
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Then you should try a new plug like this one.
http://www.carolinashooterssupply.co...h-gas-plug.htm
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  #7  
Old 07-21-2013, 1:44 PM
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Originally Posted by vintagedude88 View Post
Then you should try a new plug like this one.
http://www.carolinashooterssupply.co...h-gas-plug.htm
Awesome! They're inexpensive too. I'll try that. Did yours come with the three holes in the port? Like this: I just cleaned the shotgun and only shot 15 of those deer slugs and when I opened the port, it was gummied up but not bad.
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Last edited by carval23; 07-21-2013 at 1:48 PM..
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  #8  
Old 07-21-2013, 1:50 PM
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Also, since I'm new to this kind of shotgun, is this the right spacing when you set it to selector 1? This part confuses me.
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  #9  
Old 07-21-2013, 4:52 PM
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just because the gun has 3 ports dpesn't mean they are the correct size, my old 3 port needed to be drilled up a bit to operate correctly. the correct port size for a 3 port gun is between .008 and .009 if memory serves.
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  #10  
Old 07-21-2013, 5:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Sam .223 View Post
just because the gun has 3 ports dpesn't mean they are the correct size, my old 3 port needed to be drilled up a bit to operate correctly. the correct port size for a 3 port gun is between .008 and .009 if memory serves.
Yup, thats the plan. I plan to drill the ports using the video I saw here on calguns. He actually just used a 3/32 drill bit I believe. I also purchased the dph arms plug. Hoping to do this project before the weekend so I can test it.
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  #11  
Old 07-21-2013, 9:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carval23 View Post
Also, since I'm new to this kind of shotgun, is this the right spacing when you set it to selector 1? This part confuses me.
The selector should tighten all the way closed and then backed out to where the detent would lock in at the slot marked 1.
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  #12  
Old 07-21-2013, 9:11 PM
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Originally Posted by carval23 View Post
Yup, thats the plan. I plan to drill the ports using the video I saw here on calguns. He actually just used a 3/32 drill bit I believe. I also purchased the dph arms plug. Hoping to do this project before the weekend so I can test it.
Try the plug first before drilling.
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  #13  
Old 07-21-2013, 9:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carval23 View Post
Awesome! They're inexpensive too. I'll try that. Did yours come with the three holes in the port? Like this: I just cleaned the shotgun and only shot 15 of those deer slugs and when I opened the port, it was gummied up but not bad.
It looks like your ports is covered with that grey gunk. Get some solvent and clean that grey gunk out. After shooting mine all these years, mine had so much build up of that stuff that it caked up around the puck. I think it has something to do with lead fouling.
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  #14  
Old 07-22-2013, 7:16 AM
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Originally Posted by vintagedude88 View Post
It looks like your ports is covered with that grey gunk. Get some solvent and clean that grey gunk out. After shooting mine all these years, mine had so much build up of that stuff that it caked up around the puck. I think it has something to do with lead fouling.
I actually just cleaned it before I shot it. No gunk whatsoever. That pic was after shooting 15 slugs only. It does build up a lot of gunk quick. I do have the metal dental pick I got from my cleaning kit so I used that to poke through the hole to get the gunk out some more since I didn't do it when I cleaned it the first time. Put a flashlight through it and looked in the barrel and it is beaming the light through the ports so I know it's not obstructed. I was thinking about waiting till' I get the aftermarket plugs first to see how it goes before drilling the ports. I do believe it is undergassed that's why it's not cycling correctly. At least I'm starting to get ideas on how to fix this issue. Looks like I did get a Vodka Special!
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Old 07-22-2013, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by vintagedude88 View Post
The selector should tighten all the way closed and then backed out to where the detent would lock in at the slot marked 1.
Got it. I am doing it right then but still didn't cycle through fine. Hopefully the dph plug will resolve this. If not, I'm drilling those ports. I am also racking the handle 500 times or until my arms fall off to save me from having to waste ammo just to break it in. This is one of the suggestions in the Saiga 12 forums.
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  #16  
Old 07-22-2013, 2:08 PM
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I believe my S12 has 4 ports. You may have one more that's plugged up with gunk. It may be at the other end of the opening opposite the one up top near the muzzle end. I clean the ports with a right angle pick and brass 12 g bore brush in the gas tube after every range trip. I just checked and that's exactly where the 4th port is on mine, you just cant see it since it's against that lip but I can insert the tip of a right angle pick in that port.


Last edited by CAGLS; 07-22-2013 at 2:35 PM..
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  #17  
Old 07-22-2013, 2:58 PM
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some S 12s have 3 some have 4, the holes are different sizes depending on the number you have, most the guns i've seen are 3 port and usually with under sized holes. Carval a 3/32 bit will do the trick. you'll probably have to open up the gas block a little also, theres a ton of info on how to do this.
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  #18  
Old 07-22-2013, 3:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam .223 View Post
some S 12s have 3 some have 4, the holes are different sizes depending on the number you have, most the guns i've seen are 3 port and usually with under sized holes. Carval a 3/32 bit will do the trick. you'll probably have to open up the gas block a little also, theres a ton of info on how to do this.
I have three. I got the video on how to do it here. I'll wait till I get the plug and hopefully fixes it without having to drill. I actualy would feel better if I drill it to open up the port and help cycle low brass.
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  #19  
Old 07-22-2013, 6:58 PM
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my S12 had only one port half blocked - "Vodka Special" opened up all 4 ports changed puck and gas block -> runs so smooth shoots all low brass with out any failures
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  #20  
Old 07-22-2013, 10:21 PM
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Do you have a recoil buffer on it? The only time I had issues with mine was when I installed one of those. After I took it off no more problems.
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  #21  
Old 07-23-2013, 11:37 AM
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Do you have a recoil buffer on it? The only time I had issues with mine was when I installed one of those. After I took it off no more problems.
Nope. Nothing. Never believed in recoil buffers. The only thing I installed in it since I got it was the tromix oversized handle and the Kvar handguard. I also took out the handguard and put the stock one in just in case and still didn't cycle through. I am definitely sure it's those ports.
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Old 07-23-2013, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by santamonica9 View Post
my S12 had only one port half blocked - "Vodka Special" opened up all 4 ports changed puck and gas block -> runs so smooth shoots all low brass with out any failures
Which puck did you use? Also, how big should the ports be if it is 4 ports? I know on the 3 ports it should be .007 or .008.
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  #23  
Old 07-23-2013, 12:07 PM
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I would remove the Tromix handle for now until you get things sorted out. You're able to get 15 shots off then you encounter FTE's? You don't have lube on the puck or tube it fits in do you (it should be dry)? Lube up all friction points for the bolt, rails and hammer and then hand cycle it while you watch TV or break it in with more buck & slugs. If the shells swell up in the chamber and get stuck, try different ammo.
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Old 07-23-2013, 2:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Glockrocks View Post
I would remove the Tromix handle for now until you get things sorted out. You're able to get 15 shots off then you encounter FTE's? You don't have lube on the puck or tube it fits in do you (it should be dry)? Lube up all friction points for the bolt, rails and hammer and then hand cycle it while you watch TV or break it in with more buck & slugs. If the shells swell up in the chamber and get stuck, try different ammo.
I lubed the puck. I also lubed all the friction points and racked the hell out of it until each of my arms fell off. Taking out the tromix charging handle add on and just waiting on the dph arms plug to arrive and I'll test it out again.
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Old 07-23-2013, 5:55 PM
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Send you fcg and bolt to Pauly for his glass bolt job.
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Old 07-23-2013, 6:06 PM
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the puck shouldn't be lubed. it'll cause it to get gummed up and stick. i had Pauly do a glass bolt when he first started doing that and it was top notch work, i've talked to him for a few hours about the S12 and its short comings and its strong points, he knows what he's doing with these guns, he also provided me with some port guages to measure the port sizes.

Last edited by Sam .223; 07-23-2013 at 6:08 PM..
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Old 07-23-2013, 10:30 PM
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Send you fcg and bolt to Pauly for his glass bolt job.
Awesome.I'll do that soon as I check if the dph plugs would do the trick. Dont want to spend more than I should on this rifle.
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Old 07-23-2013, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam .223 View Post
the puck shouldn't be lubed. it'll cause it to get gummed up and stick. i had Pauly do a glass bolt when he first started doing that and it was top notch work, i've talked to him for a few hours about the S12 and its short comings and its strong points, he knows what he's doing with these guns, he also provided me with some port guages to measure the port sizes.
Sounds like saiga 12's are a real pain to maintain.
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Old 07-24-2013, 6:48 AM
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Pauly's work is the best out there, but the wait time may be very long to get your stuff back. Your Saiga shoots ok with slugs & buck shot, you just have to run the puck dry and it should not gum up after 15 rounds or so.
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Old 07-24-2013, 7:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Glockrocks View Post
Pauly's work is the best out there, but the wait time may be very long to get your stuff back. Your Saiga shoots ok with slugs & buck shot, you just have to run the puck dry and it should not gum up after 15 rounds or so.
Will do that. Thanks for the advice.
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Old 07-24-2013, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glockrocks View Post
Pauly's work is the best out there, but the wait time may be very long to get your stuff back. Your Saiga shoots ok with slugs & buck shot, you just have to run the puck dry and it should not gum up after 15 rounds or so.
He was backed up earlier this year but has hired someone to help him which has helped his turn around times. I'd call him to see what the wait times are now.
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Old 08-02-2013, 6:15 PM
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Still FTE after drilling the ports and putting the dps arms plug. Suspecting its the ejector or there too much tension on the spring. Any issues like this happening even with all these fixes? Its converted and drilled so not sure if RAA will take it for warranty repair. Any suggestions?
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Old 08-02-2013, 9:01 PM
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you can try replacing the springs for reduced power springs if the problem is only with light loads. If it happens with full power buck/slugs too, then inquire with RAA for warranty work
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Old 08-03-2013, 5:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gixer1k View Post
you can try replacing the springs for reduced power springs if the problem is only with light loads. If it happens with full power buck/slugs too, then inquire with RAA for warranty work
Shooting 00 buck. Cycled through fine before I even drilled the ports then started getting worst. Went downhill after shooting deer slugs. Empty's wont even eject at all. Bolt just racks it back in the chamber. I think its something else besides the ports. I dont think its undergassed at this point. Its more of the chamber being too tight for the shells to eject. Actually when I chamber a round, sometimes the shells gets stuck halfway in the chamber and I have to push the bolt in. It gets worst once I shot a few rounds. Rifle is cleaned during the shoot. Basically, its not smooth going in and I believe going out as well hence the fte. Id have to inquire about the warranty. What a bummer.

Last edited by carval23; 08-03-2013 at 6:00 AM..
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Old 08-05-2013, 3:24 PM
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Sent it off to Legion USA. Let's see how it goes.
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Old 08-05-2013, 7:34 PM
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send it in for warrenty, there is some sanding and polishing that can be done in there to get the shell to slide through correctly but thats best left to someone that has expierence with doing that so its not over done and then stops the gun from working all together, i did a little sanding work on the S12 i owned but iwas super conservative with it and i wouldn't recommend anyone just try it and see what happens.
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Old 08-06-2013, 8:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam .223 View Post
send it in for warrenty, there is some sanding and polishing that can be done in there to get the shell to slide through correctly but thats best left to someone that has expierence with doing that so its not over done and then stops the gun from working all together, i did a little sanding work on the S12 i owned but iwas super conservative with it and i wouldn't recommend anyone just try it and see what happens.
I believe that is the only thing needed to be done. Since Legion USA accepted the repair, I just decided to have them do it since they know more than I would. Hopefully I won't have to wait that long.
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Old 08-06-2013, 8:17 PM
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I hope they get it sorted out so you can start enjoying your S12
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Old 08-06-2013, 8:30 PM
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I hope they get it sorted out so you can start enjoying your S12
The manager for Legion USA warranty repair sounded like he's confident that its a very minor one. I cant wait to get it and shoot the crap out of it until my shoulders turn black and blue!
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