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  #1  
Old 07-17-2013, 6:43 PM
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Cool Remember the Magpul FMG9? You want one?

Yeah, so do I!

So that's why I went and found this, the KWA FPG (the Magpul licensed airsoft copy of the FMG9)



Yes, it's airsoft, but hear me out!


After seeing all the airsoft-to-real-Glock conversions, I've come to respect the airsoft guns of today: there can be some real high quality stuff in there!

And this gun is no exception: it's a durable polymer of some sort, and it's made of what a Glock is made of basically (it's made of the same material as the KWA Glock 17, which people have used as bases for real Glock conversions).

It's just BEGGING to have a real Glock slide, barrel, and frame rails installed and be turned into an SBR! (Or a carbine if you get one of the 16"+ Glock barrel shrouds)

And for the internals, you could consider using (or something based off of it) the Marigold-1 Glock frame kit. Install those internals, and then you'd have THIS:



Does anybody think this would be possible? The polymer looks to be of good quality, and KWA is known to make their Glock series of firearms pretty well close to the originals, especially for magazine/slide size.
All this would really be is a chassis for Glock internals and rails, etc. think of it as a stock set.

Please convince me to drop the $300 on it

P.S. here are the entire schematics and detailed photos of each piece: http://www.kwahk.com/parts/lookinfo.php?id=36
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  #2  
Old 07-17-2013, 7:22 PM
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A FMG9 would be pretty cool to own.

lol I don't think it ever takes much convincing to buy a firearm
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  #3  
Old 07-17-2013, 7:59 PM
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I just noticed that I put this in the gunsmithing forum

Could a mod move this to general gun discussion? That's where I originally intended it to go, but I dun goofed
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  #4  
Old 07-17-2013, 8:02 PM
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I just noticed that I put this in the gunsmithing forum

Could a mod move this to general gun discussion? That's where I originally intended it to go, but I dun goofed
Fail lol

Sent from my LG-P925 using Tapatalk 2
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  #5  
Old 07-17-2013, 8:04 PM
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Wouldn't it be a SBR if created?
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  #6  
Old 07-17-2013, 8:11 PM
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Wouldn't it be a SBR if created?
If you didn't add a 16"+ barrel shroud/barrel, then yes, and you would have to have it located in another state, and in a trust in said other state. Then you could own if, but you couldn't own it while it is located in this state.

Fricking California...
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Last edited by surplus-addict; 07-17-2013 at 8:35 PM.. Reason: Grammatical error
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Old 07-17-2013, 9:28 PM
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I'd love to see one, I want one in a 16" cali compliant version but I have a hard time trusting the durability of a firearm designed around a toy. I feel the same way about the airsoft glock and even the steel glock, I'm impressed at the skill and engineering it just seems like your starting with the wrong place. If the airsoft/steel glock lasts 5K rounds I'll change my tune but something like that would never be enjoyable to shoot because I personally would be waiting for the slide to jump rail and knock out my teeth and not worthy for SD for the same reasons.
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  #8  
Old 07-17-2013, 9:42 PM
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I'd love to see one, I want one in a 16" cali compliant version but I have a hard time trusting the durability of a firearm designed around a toy. I feel the same way about the airsoft glock and even the steel glock, I'm impressed at the skill and engineering it just seems like your starting with the wrong place. If the airsoft/steel glock lasts 5K rounds I'll change my tune but something like that would never be enjoyable to shoot because I personally would be waiting for the slide to jump rail and knock out my teeth and not worthy for SD for the same reasons.
And this is why you install a Marigold-1 subframe: those are the parts that actually get wear, and those are nice steel pieces that will last for probably hundreds of thousands of rounds.
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Old 07-17-2013, 9:50 PM
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I'd love to see one too. Would be a very cool project.
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Old 07-17-2013, 11:17 PM
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not really sure I trust that kit, one I welded/inspected personally I'd make a judgement call. I don't see any reference of heat treating or alloy specs two things I'd want to know.
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  #11  
Old 07-17-2013, 11:35 PM
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not really sure I trust that kit, one I welded/inspected personally I'd make a judgement call. I don't see any reference of heat treating or alloy specs two things I'd want to know.
You don't NEED heat treating on rails for a Glock.

And you build the kit I hope you notice, it's like an 80% for a Glock...

The only thing really getting an serious wear on a Glock's frame are the rails, and those don't need to be net treated, so why NOT trust it?

*and if you WANT to heat treat pin holes etc, just do the AK technique*
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  #12  
Old 07-18-2013, 12:06 AM
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whoa slow down a minute, who says they don't need to be heat treated? I'd be very surprised to hear a factory glock has untreated 1018 (common low carbon steel)

Yes I get, it I'm a fan of 80% heck, I've built entire receivers from scratch out of 1018 but not high friction parts like rails

The Ak technique works because the metal is a specific alloy that does great with very simple heat treating methods. Using that method on 1018 wont do much at all unless your case hardening them with a case hardening compound. In addition to the rails the slide stop is being hammered every round just for the record. I dont believe my concerns are unfounded here.

Any expert care to chime in on the glock rails?
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  #13  
Old 07-18-2013, 12:16 AM
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whoa slow down a minute, who says they don't need to be heat treated? I'd be very surprised to hear a factory glock has untreated 1018 (common low carbon steel)

Yes I get, it I'm a fan of 80% heck, I've built entire receivers from scratch out of 1018 but not high friction parts like rails

The Ak technique works because the metal is a specific alloy that does great with very simple heat treating methods. Using that method on 1018 wont do much at all unless your case hardening them with a case hardening compound. In addition to the rails the slide stop is being hammered every round just for the record. I dont believe my concerns are unfounded here.

Any expert care to chime in on the glock rails?
Yes, the slide stop is being hit each time; but I do believe that's a part that is 1. Replaceable, and 2. Made by Glock themselves, and not prt of the kit.
Of the parts on the Marigold-1 kit that get constant wear, it's only the slide rails.

I have never, EVER seen a slide rail heat treated, except if the entire frame was metal , they were integral, and then the entire frame gets sent through the furnace. I could be uninformed on this subject though...

And even if they don't heat treat them and you still want to (which would not be a bad idea at all), it wouldn't be hard to get it heat treated after you've finished making it, and then finish installing it into the "kit" of the FMG9.
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  #14  
Old 07-18-2013, 12:33 AM
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Yes, the slide stop is being hit each time; but I do believe that's a part that is 1. Replaceable, and 2. Made by Glock themselves, and not prt of the kit.
Of the parts on the Marigold-1 kit that get constant wear, it's only the slide rails.

I have never, EVER seen a slide rail heat treated, except if the entire frame was metal , they were integral, and then the entire frame gets sent through the furnace. I could be uninformed on this subject though...

And even if they don't heat treat them and you still want to (which would not be a bad idea at all), it wouldn't be hard to get it heat treated after you've finished making it, and then finish installing it into the "kit" of the FMG9.
I'm sure but I'll take your word on that, the problem is that piece rests against two guide cuts. Its the same theory of rivet/pin holes being "egged" after repeated battering. I would personally "weld" in a new load bearing surface.

I'm pretty sure its standard practice to treat all AK rails prior to welding factory/homebuilt.

Yes and no, if its 1018 it needs to be case hardened, if its case hardened its gotta get "dunked" in cold/room temp water, if its going to get dunked its gonna wanna warp, if it warps bad enough its a jam-o-matic. This is also true if its a water/oil hardened alloy.

I was a machinist for a few years, learned a lot of metal fab/machining
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Old 07-19-2013, 10:02 AM
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I'm sure but I'll take your word on that, the problem is that piece rests against two guide cuts. Its the same theory of rivet/pin holes being "egged" after repeated battering. I would personally "weld" in a new load bearing surface.

I'm pretty sure its standard practice to treat all AK rails prior to welding factory/homebuilt.

Yes and no, if its 1018 it needs to be case hardened, if its case hardened its gotta get "dunked" in cold/room temp water, if its going to get dunked its gonna wanna warp, if it warps bad enough its a jam-o-matic. This is also true if its a water/oil hardened alloy.

I was a machinist for a few years, learned a lot of metal fab/machining
AK rails aren't heat treated.
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Old 07-19-2013, 10:08 AM
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Do it then send it to me for the tax stamp
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Old 07-19-2013, 3:30 PM
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AK rails aren't heat treated.
They can be though. Never a bad idea, but it's not necessary.
Same thing with the Glock rails.
And come on: it would NOT be that hard to take the Glock frame to a person with the proper tools and then have it heat treated.
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Old 07-19-2013, 3:47 PM
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AK rails aren't heat treated.
There's a debate on that I would say 80% are in favor, both mine were, and once again: pretty dang sure they leave the factory heat treated.
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Old 07-19-2013, 3:53 PM
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They can be though. Never a bad idea, but it's not necessary.
Same thing with the Glock rails.
And come on: it would NOT be that hard to take the Glock frame to a person with the proper tools and then have it heat treated.
Once again the heat treating is no big deal, even if its just plain steel HOWEVER, metal warps as it gets heated and especially when it cools.

don't believe me?
some light googling later... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CL2XxWyVfGM
That knife is a heck of lot beefier than one of the rails
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Old 07-19-2013, 4:05 PM
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Once again the heat treating is no big deal, even if its just plain steel HOWEVER, metal warps as it gets heated and especially when it cools.

don't believe me?
some light googling later... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CL2XxWyVfGM
That knife is a heck of lot beefier than one of the rails
I KNOW things warp, I've heat treated steel before. but you can heat treat sheet steel properly, but you have to do it right.

And again: the rails don't even HAVE to be heat treated for it to work!
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Old 07-19-2013, 5:06 PM
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If you move to a free state, why not just buy a real FMG?

The Boatman UC-M21 (2nd gen FMG) pop up for sale every now and then.
It's a fully transferable (pre-'86) MG that uses Uzi magazines.

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Old 07-19-2013, 8:50 PM
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I have an FPG TOY I play with.

I begged the guys at Magpul to make one with a 16" barrel when I saw it at the SHOT show. It would sell like hotcakes.. but they told me there are no plans to put it in production.

I looked over the toy. Sure, it's possible to convert... At a minimum, you'd have to fabricate some sort of metal frame or chassis for the lower unit, then you'd have to see if a magazine fits properly in the mag well, THEN you have to hope the plastic doesn't disintegrate when you fire it.

WAY too much work IMO. Enjoy it for what it is, a cool toy. The clandestine factor is gone anyways- EVERYONE knows what the thing is now

-Dave
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Old 07-19-2013, 9:21 PM
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SIG Sauer showed something similar at the most recent SHOT. It's called the Adaptive Carbine Platform, and the ones they had there were configured to turn any pistol into an SBR.

http://www.gunsandammo.com/reviews/g...atform-review/

Unfortunately, there are no photos of those configurations in the article above, and I don't see any on the web. But it was pretty much the same idea as the Magpul FMG9, just with more upgrades.
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Old 07-19-2013, 9:38 PM
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I have an FPG TOY I play with.

I begged the guys at Magpul to make one with a 16" barrel when I saw it at the SHOT show. It would sell like hotcakes.. but they told me there are no plans to put it in production.

I looked over the toy. Sure, it's possible to convert... At a minimum, you'd have to fabricate some sort of metal frame or chassis for the lower unit, then you'd have to see if a magazine fits properly in the mag well, THEN you have to hope the plastic doesn't disintegrate when you fire it.

WAY too much work IMO. Enjoy it for what it is, a cool toy. The clandestine factor is gone anyways- EVERYONE knows what the thing is now

-Dave
Remember, we now have the Marigold-1 kit available, and the magazines ARE interchangeable if they actually take KWA magazines.
Also, the plastic is the same high impact polymer used by Magpul

This thing would last a long time
And remember; the only parts that actually take impact are the frame rails and the locking block, which are part of the subframe.

This will work. Maybe not well, but it will work and it's TOTALLY worth it.
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Old 07-20-2013, 12:58 AM
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You should make one that looks like a IPAD that has a 16" barrel of course.
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Old 07-20-2013, 6:34 AM
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AK rails aren't heat treated.
I beg to differ. Aside from many reasons to build from a flat many builders prefer using Nodak receivers. The entire receiver is heat treated.
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Old 07-20-2013, 10:02 AM
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I beg to differ. Aside from many reasons to build from a flat many builders prefer using Nodak receivers. The entire receiver is heat treated.
But it does not have to be, that is what is important.

It will last longer if you do, but it is not necessary.
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  #28  
Old 07-20-2013, 10:33 AM
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I seem to remember reading a book about Glocks way back when and IIRC the rails are heat treated.
They don't have to be in the frame when heat treated, they can be installed into the mold before the plastic is injected. Steel isn't starting to be affected by heat until 5-600F, that plastic gets soft at 300F and is melting at not much higher then that.
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Old 05-24-2015, 12:02 AM
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You know, I normally don't like bumping old threads, but in this case, I feel justified: somebody ACTUALLY MADE IT.

Proof of concept achieved!

Although, this guy is sparse on the details and quite camera shy, so it makes me wonder if it's a little less than legal....





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Last edited by surplus-addict; 05-24-2015 at 12:06 AM..
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Old 05-24-2015, 12:31 AM
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Holy necropost!

I saw those videos, looked like they were having issues with it.

I'd bet a donut that's in the Philippines, where Glock auto selectors and crazy crap are commonplace and legal.

-Dave
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Old 05-24-2015, 11:45 AM
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Holy necropost!

I saw those videos, looked like they were having issues with it.

I'd bet a donut that's in the Philippines, where Glock auto selectors and crazy crap are commonplace and legal.

-Dave
Yeah, I'll admit that it's a bit of a necro post

The issues look like they were feed related, which makes me think that the magazine release needs some adjusting to get that mag in the right position.

And good call on the Philippines! I didn't think of that but it makes sense.
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Old 05-24-2015, 8:44 PM
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Shame you can't get the 80% Glock frame kits any longer. Boris has given up on them.
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Old 05-25-2015, 12:58 AM
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Shame you can't get the 80% Glock frame kits any longer. Boris has given up on them.
Actually, not so. He's on WeaponsGuild, and they're hashing out a group buy as we speak.

He was losing money on them, bad. But if he can sell enough to turn a profit, he's game to making a batch of them.
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Old 05-25-2015, 3:50 AM
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Oh man the toy would be fun to play 007 in the living room with! When I was out of the Marines I got in trouble I got my first 1911 I dove over the couch did a roll and popped up pointing it at the tv. So a vase didn't make it so the wife was not happy. She said "wtf put some paints on . Clean that up now". I'm having flash backs now. FYI I was playing comando but had tighty whities on .
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Old 05-25-2015, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by surplus-addict View Post
Actually, not so. He's on WeaponsGuild, and they're hashing out a group buy as we speak.

He was losing money on them, bad. But if he can sell enough to turn a profit, he's game to making a batch of them.
Thanks for the heads up. I'm a member there as well. I'll head over and put in my order.
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Old 05-26-2015, 8:14 PM
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Originally Posted by surplus-addict View Post
Actually, not so. He's on WeaponsGuild, and they're hashing out a group buy as we speak.

He was losing money on them, bad. But if he can sell enough to turn a profit, he's game to making a batch of them.
Any chance for a direct link to the thread? Either I'm dense or, well, I just cannot find it.

I may be slow on the uptake, given enough time, I figure things out.

Found it and posted.

Thanks.
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Last edited by Cannon-Arms; 05-26-2015 at 9:55 PM..
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Old 05-29-2015, 12:12 AM
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For any Y'all interested in the Iron Glock, and possibly getting a Boris approved group buy, head on over to Weaponsguild.

Here's a link, straight to the first post from Boris(Borland) in the group buy discussion thread.


http://www.weaponsguild.com/forum/in...topic=48730.75
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