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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 12-20-2007, 4:56 PM
Smithers Smithers is offline
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Default Best 50 DTC rifle?

I've been looking into buying a 50 DTC rifle, and I'd like to know how the Bluegrass Armory Viper stacks up to its competitors. Specifically, how accurate is it?

Alternatively, what else is available besides the viper? I want to keep the price below 3k, so the Windrunner is out of the question. I'm leery about dropping 7 grand on a gun when I can use it on a down payment for a car.

Thanks in advance.
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  #2  
Old 12-20-2007, 5:28 PM
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I assume you are talking about 510DTC?

Try Dave @ Spider Firearm, the home of Ferret 50. Their upper halves are very accurate.

Of course you may use your existing AR-15 style lower half. However the hammer and spring are suggested to be replaced for maximum performance.

Good luck for surveying.
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  #3  
Old 12-20-2007, 5:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smithers View Post
.....
Alternatively, what else is available besides the viper? I want to keep the price below 3k, ......
Thanks in advance.
If you want a reasonable bench gun, then the AR-50 would be a good choice as well. Heavy, with a very effective muzzle brake, it recoils the least of most everything out there. www.armalite.com
Here's one that just came up for sale too! http://www.biggerhammer.net/barrett/...gi?read=201822

Too, the ALS 50 (an ar-15 upper conversion) is also a very nice bench gun.
It has placed in many of the FCSA 1000yd competitions. www.50bmg.net

For a light tactical gun you can still hike around with, the Serbu BFG-50 w/29" or Carbine 22" rifles are very nice. www.serbu.com

The ultimate 'carry' 50s are the UltraLight50, UltraMag50 and FAR50.
www.ultralight50.com, www.safetyharborfirearms.com, www.bohicaarms.com

If you have a CA registered lower receiver, you can still buy a .50BMG chambered upper for it. Otherwise, any Off List Lower, or single-shot AR15 type lower and a .50DTC (aka .50DTC-EDM or .510DTC-Europ) will do.

For a reasonable shell holder type action.. the State Arms rifles are worth a look: www.statearms.com


Last edited by mrkubota; 12-20-2007 at 6:09 PM.. Reason: info update
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  #4  
Old 12-20-2007, 6:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrkubota View Post
Otherwise, any Off List Lower, or single-shot AR15 type lower and a .50DTC (aka .50DTC-EDM or .510DTC-Europ) will do.

Are the 50DTC-EDM and 510DTC-Europ interchangable? Anyone have a breakdown of who makes which version of DTC? Which one is more desirable in terms of available reloading dies, ammo, etc...
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  #5  
Old 12-20-2007, 7:43 PM
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The ferret and the state arms rifles get a lot of praise for the price. Some people have concerns about the takedown pins being hard on an AR lower. Don't know if there's any substance to that though...
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  #6  
Old 12-20-2007, 8:02 PM
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I shot an 11.5", 1000 yard, 6 target, 5 shot group agg with my ALS this August. If you don't want to wait a year, Ferret or State Arms would also be good choices.
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  #7  
Old 12-20-2007, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by draconianruler View Post
Are the 50DTC-EDM and 510DTC-Europ interchangable? Anyone have a breakdown of who makes which version of DTC? Which one is more desirable in terms of available reloading dies, ammo, etc...
I'd forgotton about the Ferret50!

The two 'specs' are virtually identical. The .50DTC-EDM is the most prevelant and has very sharp radius' at the neck/shoulder and shoulder/body.
The .510DTC-Europ is more rounded.

Currently, Jerry Hazlett of AmerICan Ent in Oklahoma manufactures the ammo for EDM Arms in Redlands, CA.
I too manufacture .50DTC 'forming' ammo mostly for Serbu and Bohica shooters to date. I can also reload the fire-formed cases to either spec.

CH4D.com offers the dies for either spec.

Here's a pic of some 'forming' ammo next to a reloaded fire-formed case from/for an EDM Windrunner M96 in .50DTC-EDM.



The previous picture features a fire-formed case from an early Serbu chambered for the .510DTC-Europ spec. You can see theres no sharp radius at the neck/shoulder and the shoulder itself is a little more rounded.

'Forming' ammo will work in either chamber. Once fire-formed, then you must use the proper die set to reload them.

From what I've gathered. Spider Firearms (ferret50.com) Bluegrass Armory (viper) and State Arms, use the .510DTC-Europ spec (JGS Reamers)

EDM Arms, Serbu Firearms, LigaMec (ultralight50), SafetyHarborFirearms, and Bohica Arms, all use the .50DTC-EDM spec (manson reamers)
(the first dozen Serbus also used the JGS reamer before switching to Manson)

//Ben

RSR Development, LLC
06FFL - Custom Ammunition
Yucaipa, CA 92399

Last edited by mrkubota; 12-20-2007 at 10:09 PM.. Reason: corrections
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  #8  
Old 12-21-2007, 12:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrkubota View Post
If you want a reasonable bench gun, then the AR-50 would be a good choice as well. Heavy, with a very effective muzzle brake, it recoils the least of most everything out there. www.armalite.com
Here's one that just came up for sale too! http://www.biggerhammer.net/barrett/...gi?read=201822
Eh, the ar-50 comes in 510 DTC?
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  #9  
Old 12-21-2007, 2:46 AM
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There was some discussion on a few boards about Armalite putting out feelers as to the interest in a .50DTC version of their AR50. So, yes, it's possible they're going to do it. (finally!)
Wouldn't hurt to call/email them if anybody'd like to see them made.
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  #10  
Old 12-21-2007, 6:00 AM
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If you want an AR50, you could always "buy" one from out of state. Then, have it shipped to an out of state FFL/50smith to rechamber/rebarrel it with a DTC chamber and, then have it shipped to your local FFL to DROS it to you.
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  #11  
Old 12-21-2007, 8:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER View Post
If you want an AR50, you could always "buy" one from out of state. Then, have it shipped to an out of state FFL/50smith to rechamber/rebarrel it with a DTC chamber and, then have it shipped to your local FFL to DROS it to you.
any FFL that you would recommend or suggest? I'm thinking about doing that
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  #12  
Old 12-21-2007, 8:59 AM
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Default Bohica Arms makes a 50 DTC EDM

Bohica Arms (Chris) makes an upper that is 50 DTC EDM. Fits your AR Lower. I picked one up, and very happy. I have not attempted to shoot 1000 yards yet, and so far, I am just blasting rocks and stuff around 200 - 300 yards. So, I can not attest to the accuracy, but it's hitting my targets
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  #13  
Old 12-21-2007, 9:33 AM
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thats a nice price on that far50 by bohica arms, might have to get one of those.
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  #14  
Old 12-21-2007, 1:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER View Post
If you want an AR50, you could always "buy" one from out of state. Then, have it shipped to an out of state FFL/50smith to rechamber/rebarrel it with a DTC chamber and, then have it shipped to your local FFL to DROS it to you.
Nuts, that's probably going to push the price above 3k. Does anyone know if ALS makes their uppers in 510 DTC? I have this unholy obsession with extremely accurate guns and it sounds like the ALS fits the bill.
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Old 12-21-2007, 2:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Smithers View Post
Nuts, that's probably going to push the price above 3k. Does anyone know if ALS makes their uppers in 510 DTC? I have this unholy obsession with extremely accurate guns and it sounds like the ALS fits the bill.
YES! I heard that a friend and fellow Calgunner had actually put a deposit on one so, last time I talked to Daran (owner of ALS), I asked him if it was true and he said it was! Just be warned that he has about a year backlog. Also, I recommend joining the FCSA before you buy a 50! The information available to FCSA members has saved many members lots of time and money.

Last edited by CSACANNONEER; 12-21-2007 at 3:05 PM..
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Old 12-21-2007, 4:31 PM
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Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER View Post
YES! I heard that a friend and fellow Calgunner had actually put a deposit on one so, last time I talked to Daran (owner of ALS), I asked him if it was true and he said it was! Just be warned that he has about a year backlog. Also, I recommend joining the FCSA before you buy a 50! The information available to FCSA members has saved many members lots of time and money.
Oh man, I'm already feeling the anxiety you get the day before you pick up a gun.
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  #17  
Old 12-22-2007, 12:14 AM
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Oh man, I'm already feeling the anxiety you get the day before you pick up a gun.
I didn't get mine for 2 years after putting down a deposit. But, my AR50 was there to keep me from going crazy. If your in Socal, you can see/shoot my ALS and/or AR50L before you make a decission.
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Old 12-24-2007, 1:42 PM
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Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER View Post
I didn't get mine for 2 years after putting down a deposit. But, my AR50 was there to keep me from going crazy. If your in Socal, you can see/shoot my ALS and/or AR50L before you make a decission.
I just emailed ALS and they do sell the 510 DTC conversion. But a 2 year wait is kind of...long.
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Old 12-24-2007, 1:47 PM
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Is the WindJammer still around Nice Rifle.

Serbu
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  #20  
Old 12-24-2007, 2:23 PM
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Id rather have a 416 barret....Talk about an awesome round
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Old 12-24-2007, 5:36 PM
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I'm really digging the viper . Maybe if I get a good tax return this year and the wife doesn't find out
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Old 12-24-2007, 5:50 PM
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I'm really digging the viper . Maybe if I get a good tax return this year and the wife doesn't find out
Thats just the start. Then you have to feed it. Thats hard to hide from the wife as well!
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Old 12-24-2007, 5:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smithers View Post
I just emailed ALS and they do sell the 510 DTC conversion. But a 2 year wait is kind of...long.
My wait was 2 years because, I was waiting for him to retool and do a run of LH actions and I have another 50. So, I wasn't in a hurry. I finally just got a RH one. I have to say that the best is worth the wait. In the mean time, you could pick up an ALS stock and trigger group and put a Ferret, Bohica or UltraMag on it. When your ALS is done, swap out uppers and sell the first one for at least 80-90% of what you paid for it!
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