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  #81  
Old 12-20-2007, 7:16 PM
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Those letters are beautiful (Alison's excepted )
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  #82  
Old 12-20-2007, 7:19 PM
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And after a quick note from Ben, here is the letter where Alison Merrilees gave up.

A couple of notes on this. First, her pet theory to cover her behind was that Ben was an FFL without a license. That's a laughable position since there was always an FFL involved and her logic would make every credit card issuer and processor and FFL too... The ATF letter she refers to was TMLLP calling ATF, explaining the situation, and after getting a long line of laughter from ATF, getting a promise from the ATF guy that he'd document that the ATF didn't consider Ben to be doing anything wrong but would ask him not to do it again.

So, here is Alison not quite wanting to give up, but folding nonetheless:
http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/mil...-to-Cannon.pdf

And that is the story.

-Gene
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Last edited by hoffmang; 12-20-2007 at 8:36 PM.. Reason: Misspelled AM's name in the link...
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  #83  
Old 12-20-2007, 7:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
And after a quick note from Ben, here is the letter where Alison Merrilees gave up.

A couple of notes on this. First, her pet theory to cover her behind was that Ben was an FFL without a license. That's a laughable position since there was always an FFL involved and her logic would make every credit card issuer and processor and FFL too... The ATF letter she refers to was TMLLP calling ATF, explaining the situation, and after getting a long line of laughter from ATF, getting a promise from the ATF guy that he'd document that the ATF didn't consider Ben to be doing anything wrong but would ask him not to do it again.

So, here is Alison not quite wanting to give up, but folding nonetheless:
http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/mil...-to-Cannon.pdf

And that is the story.

-Gene
Typical commy response by a person who whos job it is to keep its subject in line.

She is a looser and she lost big. People like her are always looking for .gov jobs and thats why I didnt go there when I left the Marine Corps. I like to spend my days with type "A" folks not blue falcons.
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  #84  
Old 12-20-2007, 7:39 PM
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Thanks Gene. I was going to ask about the story but figured it'd come out in time.
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  #85  
Old 12-20-2007, 7:43 PM
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So what is the Iggister going to do with all that space in his trophy cabinet how he had to give them back?

Does Alison still have a job at the BoF? Wow.
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  #86  
Old 12-20-2007, 8:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artherd View Post
19-DECEMBER, 2007. MILPITIAS, CA.
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE.

Nearly 2 years after they were siezed, amidst much controversy, 219 hotly contested firearm components have been returned to their rightful owners.

Thanks to the combined efforts of members of calguns.net, a web forum promoting individual rights, unlawfully taken personal property has been returned to it's rightful and legal owners.

Participants must undergo yet another 10-day waiting period, as these harmless looking chunks of aluminum are still technically 'firearms'.

This is yet another example of what good people can do when we come together openly and honestly. I thank you all for your continued support, and look forward to what 2008 will bring.

All Milpitas Group Buyers are cordially invited to a release party early Jan 2008, date and venue info will be distributed.

Thank you to the following, without your help:
Scatch Maroo
Rob Blank, RMB
Gene Hoffman
Jason Davis, TMLLP
Chuck Michel, TMLLP
NRA
Calguns.net
Paul Kestryll
Ramon
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Bill Wiese
Matt Corwin
All the rest who must remain nameless.
Congrats Ben!

What a dream team (you and all the people listed above)!
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  #87  
Old 12-20-2007, 8:34 PM
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Congrats...long awaited and I thank you all

Last edited by tmuller; 12-20-2007 at 8:34 PM.. Reason: forgot an a
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  #88  
Old 12-20-2007, 8:34 PM
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sweet ,much thanks to all involved. long wait but worth it. calling ffl in the morning.
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  #89  
Old 12-20-2007, 8:36 PM
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I am glad you guys got them back. They were takenn a few months before I moved out of state.

If any of you want to sell one let me know, I believe atleast one NEEDS to be made into a real AR. I could always take pic's after its done and mail them to Allison.

Congrats again guys
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  #90  
Old 12-20-2007, 9:09 PM
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Nice work, Gene. Nothing makes me happier than to see these BOF folks out-worked on their home turf by much more meticulous (pro-gun) minds. As you say, freedom is "free as in free speech" not "free as in free beer". It takes work, money, and persistence.

Congratulations - and I'm looking forward to what you guys have in store for 2008!

--Neill
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  #91  
Old 12-20-2007, 9:19 PM
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Congrats Guys!

Second piece of good news this week.

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  #92  
Old 12-20-2007, 9:33 PM
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I'll be damned.......you guys pulled it off. My compliments!
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  #93  
Old 12-20-2007, 9:40 PM
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I say we do another "Evil But Legal" T-shirt of some sort to commemorate. Mine is stained and getting worn through. It's been my favorite shirt for 2 yrs now!
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  #94  
Old 12-20-2007, 10:39 PM
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That cave in letter from Alison reads just like my letter. Lots of what could happen and nothing solid. These guys live off of fear. How sad.

I would respect the BoF so much more if they would just relax and treat people with respect. You don't have to screw with people, just say what you are going to do and do it. If you are not going to do anything, don't say anything.

Speak softly and carry a big stick.
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  #95  
Old 12-20-2007, 10:42 PM
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But her letter is priceless.

Quote:
Bluster, bluster, bluster, could have beaten you if it wasn't for you kids, bluster and...

Oh yeah. Pick up your stuff before I get sued...
Yep Allison. CYA all the way back to a cushy job at LCAV after the fund-raising dries up..

-Gene
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  #96  
Old 12-20-2007, 10:47 PM
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Ben, Gene
Thanks
George
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  #97  
Old 12-20-2007, 11:09 PM
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This has been a good month indeed, looks like there really is a Santa. I would like to personally thank all of you who have fought for all California gun owner's rights.
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  #98  
Old 12-20-2007, 11:17 PM
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Wait a second...this makes no sense....

Everyone knows CA gun owners just bend over and take it...

Jokes aside, great work! Amazing things can happen when you have the law on your side.
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  #99  
Old 12-21-2007, 12:18 AM
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For some reason, I keep expecting Alison to chime in on this thread.

Two victories in December.

It's beginning to feel alot like some non-denominational winter solstice holiday!

And as mentioned before, things happen in Threes.....

Is it possible that we have another victory in the wings?

Are certain Deputies at the AG starting to wonder if Law School was a waste of money?
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  #100  
Old 12-21-2007, 1:13 AM
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Amazing... wasn't expecting to see this today! Awesome job guys fighting the good fight to get these back!

Hey Ben, it might be a good idea that if you still have the e-mail addresses of all of those who bought these, to send a mass message to them in case they don't frequent this site anymore. Just a thought. Thanks again for all your hard work you guys!!!
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  #101  
Old 12-21-2007, 6:47 AM
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Great job guys, these lowers really have some history to go with them!
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  #102  
Old 12-21-2007, 8:22 AM
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  #103  
Old 12-21-2007, 8:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdberger View Post

Are certain Deputies at the AG starting to wonder if Law School was a waste of money?
I think they're going to always be in a state of denial even as losses against us 'common folk' continue to rack up.
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  #104  
Old 12-21-2007, 8:53 AM
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Ben, Gene, y'all make me proud to be a member of Cal Guns.
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  #105  
Old 12-21-2007, 9:31 AM
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Gene you did a nice job of making the law work for all of us. THANK YOU Gene and Ben.

Looking forward to picking up my $300 (+2 years) DoubleStar!
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  #106  
Old 12-21-2007, 9:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenpercentfirearms View Post
I would respect the BoF so much more if they would just relax and treat people with respect. You don't have to screw with people, just say what you are going to do and do it. If you are not going to do anything, don't say anything.
Agreed, this does not have to be complicated. Apply and enforce existing law. It's not that hard.

Quote:
Speak softly and carry a big stick.
My signature for a while was "Speak softly and carry a self-loading .50BMG"
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  #107  
Old 12-21-2007, 9:45 AM
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I've got several Evil But Legal shirts still kicking around in my garage.

How about a new shirt, with Alison's offer of non-prosecution in exchange for destruction of all 219 lowers?

I wish I had a written response, but I simply told Chuck: "You can tell her to shove that offer directly up her ***."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super_tactical View Post
I say we do another "Evil But Legal" T-shirt of some sort to commemorate. Mine is stained and getting worn through. It's been my favorite shirt for 2 yrs now!
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  #108  
Old 12-21-2007, 10:07 AM
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Congrats to all who made this happen; you guys are doing a fantastic job - showing the rest of us; that all is not lost!

-M3
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  #109  
Old 12-21-2007, 10:07 AM
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"FREE AT LAST! FREE at last! Thank (Put in your Deity) Almighty, they are free at last!"
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  #110  
Old 12-21-2007, 10:09 AM
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Does anyone have an extra one they would like to sell.
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  #111  
Old 12-21-2007, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omega13device View Post
Gene you did a nice job of making the law work for all of us. THANK YOU Gene and Ben.

Looking forward to picking up my $300 (+2 years) DoubleStar!
I thought they were Laurers (sp)
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  #112  
Old 12-21-2007, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cisco View Post
I thought they were Laurers (sp)
There is actually a mix of brands in the pile.

-Gene
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  #113  
Old 12-21-2007, 11:20 AM
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FEB-2007:
- DOJ claimed Ben Cannon was in the business of selling firearms (false!)
http://cdglobal.net/gun/NRA%20SLC_C_...achment)-1.pdf

MARCH-2007:
- DOJ drafts a non-prosecute and destroy "civil settlement." (AFTER trying and failing to prosecute me in 3 jurisdictions.)
http://cdglobal.net/gun/Cannon%20Dra...greement-1.pdf (I told them to shove it where the sun does not shine.)

SEP-2007:
- DOJ Folds.
http://cdglobal.net/gun/DOJ-siezed-lowers-return.pdf

DEC-2007:
- Details on pickup and exactly who has possession settled, lowers picked up, angels sing!
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Last edited by artherd; 12-21-2007 at 11:23 AM..
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  #114  
Old 12-21-2007, 11:41 AM
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Alison is such a doofus. She coined the new term "straw dealer!" The only problem is that the dealer is in fact an actual dealer...

Who needs to be constrained by the law when you have Deputy AG in your title. Kinda funny how we have our guns back and she is worried about covering her behind.

-Gene
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  #115  
Old 12-21-2007, 11:48 AM
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Great job. Nice to know that people are getting there property back.
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  #116  
Old 12-21-2007, 12:18 PM
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Straw dealer.. what a load of crap. I wonder if she consulted the LCAV to generate that nonsense phrase for her.

These letters make me angry. Those four receivers are my property, they were seized from my FFL while I was in the 10 day waiting period, and I wrote letters to the DOJ demanding my property back. Then she offers Ben the opportunity to destroy my property. I'm glad he didn't take the chance.

What a crock. There is a certain DDA that doesn't understand federal and state firearms laws and should be fired. The whole claim is ridiculous on the face of it, if you just read the law excerpts she puts on the first page of the letter. They clearly do not apply to the facts of this case. DUH.
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  #117  
Old 12-21-2007, 12:23 PM
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1911,

You'll note that Don and I explained that to her pretty forcefully. She knew that when I sued her I would be deemed to have title to the firearms. It actually points out an interesting loophole. On the face of California law, a court or LEA could be forced to turn a gun seized from an FFL before a 4473 directly to an actual owner without creating a 4473.

-Gene
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  #118  
Old 12-21-2007, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
1911,

You'll note that Don and I explained that to her pretty forcefully. She knew that when I sued her I would be deemed to have title to the firearms. It actually points out an interesting loophole. On the face of California law, a court or LEA could be forced to turn a gun seized from an FFL before a 4473 directly to an actual owner without creating a 4473.

-Gene
Sorry, I haven't had a chance to read your documents yet; I just read the ones that Ben posted.

Yes that is an interesting "loophole" (or I would call it, a "legislative deficiency". Our firearms laws are so complex and poorly architected that there are numerous deficiencies that show up all the time. The whole "DROS" system really runs counter to common law and property rights, so when you have a corner case such as this, it stresses the written conditions a bit, and we rely on common sense to get us through.

The trust that we put in our government, and specifically the executive branch is that they will fairly enforce laws and give citizens the benefit of the doubt and treat us fairly. Clearly there is something wrong here.

I'm going to read your documents next.. I'm sure it will be good entertainment.
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  #119  
Old 12-21-2007, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1911_sfca View Post
These letters make me angry. Those four receivers are my property, they were seized from my FFL while I was in the 10 day waiting period, and I wrote letters to the DOJ demanding my property back. Then she offers Ben the opportunity to destroy my property. I'm glad he didn't take the chance.
That was the crux of my response, I cannot speak for 217 of the guns, as they are not my property. 2 of them are, and THOSE two, YOU MAY NOT HAVE!
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  #120  
Old 12-21-2007, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
Our final reply - August 20 - Where Don and I teach her how to read the law and Don asks if she is up to nefarious firearm registration...
I really like that letter. "As a friendly reminder, . . ."
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