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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 12-14-2007, 11:08 AM
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Default Can a registered sex offender own a gun?

A friend of mine made some poor decisions years ago. His mug is now on Megan's Law and he has a felony on his record. He was on parole until last year. I was talking with him about hunting, and he showed enthusiastic interest. I'm pretty sure there's nothing preventing him from going to the Hunter Safety course or getting a hunting license...but if he decides that he likes hunting, would he be able to purchase a rifle or shotgun? If not, would it be illegal for me to lend one of mine to him? If not, what's the time limit on lending a gun?

If this has been discussed already, please forgive me and point me in the right direction. I've searched the forum, but couldn't find anything relevant.
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  #2  
Old 12-14-2007, 11:12 AM
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felony = never able to legally own a firearm
to my knowledge
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  #3  
Old 12-14-2007, 11:14 AM
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Magic 8 ball says: Outlook not so good

Also, do not lend a gun to a felon.. wtf man.. lol
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Old 12-14-2007, 11:19 AM
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Felony RSOs are some of the last folks, in theory, that should be allowed to hav guns.

There is some small fraction that were probably 'overcharged' - i.e, 17yo guy with 15yo girlfriend.

If the latter is the case, perhaps there are ways of 'redisposing' of the case, but only lawyers can tell. Likely would involve a substitute misdemanor charge, etc. - not sure of all the details. And a lotta money.

And he sounds like a bright guy, getting his name on the books for a hunting license even though he's a felon. I'd bet those lists are scanned, and it'd a good way to get his door kicked down by teams looking for felons-in-possession.
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  #5  
Old 12-14-2007, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazed_SS View Post
Magic 8 ball says: Outlook not so good

Also, do not lend a gun to a felon.. wtf man.. lol
He's a close friend of mine. He made a poor decision. He's a completely changed person. And honestly, I would completely trust my life in his hands. I can't say that about a whole lot of people.

I'm not looking for opinions. I'm looking for straight answers - illegal to own? Illegal to lend?
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  #6  
Old 12-14-2007, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris M View Post
He's a close friend of mine. He made a poor decision. He's a completely changed person. And honestly, I would completely trust my life in his hands. I can't say that about a whole lot of people.

I'm not looking for opinions. I'm looking for straight answers - illegal to own? Illegal to lend?

I know it's illegal for a felon to be in possession of a firearm.

It's illegal for someone to buy a gun for a felon or prohibited person (straw purchase)

I'm almost positive it's illegal for a person to knowingly lend/give a gun to a felon. Sorry.. I dont know the penal code.. maybe someone can chime in.
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Old 12-14-2007, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwiese View Post
Felony RSOs are some of the last folks, in theory, that should be allowed to hav guns.

There is some small fraction that were probably 'overcharged' - i.e, 17yo guy with 15yo girlfriend.

If the latter is the case, perhaps there are ways of 'redisposing' of the case, but only lawyers can tell. Likely would involve a substitute misdemanor charge, etc. - not sure of all the details. And a lotta money.
OK, so, short answer is "No, he can't own a gun".


Quote:
Originally Posted by bwiese View Post
And he sounds like a bright guy, getting his name on the books for a hunting license even though he's a felon. I'd bet those lists are scanned, and it'd a good way to get his door kicked down by teams looking for felons-in-possession.
He doesn't have a hunting license. He's never been hunting. He hasn't taken or signed up for, or even researched information on, the hunter education course. I simply invited him on a duck hunt as an observer.
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  #8  
Old 12-14-2007, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris M View Post
He doesn't have a hunting license. He's never been hunting. He hasn't taken or signed up for, or even researched information on, the hunter education course. I simply invited him on a duck hunt as an observer.
'Observing' - OK.

He can't touch guns or ammo. If you let him, you're in trouble too.

Likely will never have the chance either - no matter what state he moves to.

If he does handle or possess guns/ammo, he could be reamed on both a Federal and state basis. DAs would love his "sex offender has guns" status for a poster-child prosecution.
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  #9  
Old 12-14-2007, 11:31 AM
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damn i wouldn't even keep in touch with a sex offender even if he was a friend from before.
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  #10  
Old 12-14-2007, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwiese View Post
'Observing' - OK.

He can't touch guns or ammo. If you let him, you're in trouble too.

Likely will never have the chance either - no matter what state he moves to.

If he does handle or possess guns/ammo, he could be reamed on both a Federal and state basis. DAs would love his "sex offender has guns" status for a poster-child prosecution.
Thanks for the clarification. That's exactly what I was looking for. I'll let him know that it would be best for us both if he didn't come hunting with me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 5150-417 View Post
damn i wouldn't even keep in touch with a sex offender even if he was a friend from before.
I became friends with him after the fact. If you knew all the circumstances, and knew him as well as I do, you'd think differently.
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  #11  
Old 12-14-2007, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris M View Post
I became friends with him after the fact. If you knew all the circumstances, and knew him as well as I do, you'd think differently.

No need to justify your friendships to people on here. Crap happens, it is what it is. Like you said, people dont know the circumstances ... let them blab
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  #12  
Old 12-14-2007, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5150-417 View Post
damn i wouldn't even keep in touch with a sex offender even if he was a friend from before.
Sex offender can mean many things, while many of them are vile predators, mainly the repeat ones, there are cases where it is as simple as high school kids fooling around and getting caught or other extenuating circumstance.

I did read of one case where a 20 year old got popped for dating and having sex with a 16 year old. The problem was she told him she was 18, admitted that she lied to him including showing fake IDs. His friends and family all thought she was an 18 year old high school grad and she looked it 100%.
He is now a RSO, should his friends and family abandon him?

Granted it is a rare scenario in it's extremity but if you fooled around with your girlfriend in high school you could easily be an RSO who just didn't get caught.

Another point would be do you consider that no one is ever redeemable?

Without knowing his friends situation it's next to impossible to condemn him for remaining friends with him.
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  #13  
Old 12-14-2007, 12:43 PM
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It doesnt matter how close of a friend he is. The law is the law. Dont get yourself in the situation where you lend him a firearm knowing he is a convicted felon. Your right we all have choices to make in life. He made some bad choices. He can not vote and he can not own a firearm. Those laws were out there before he chose what he did. So NOPE can own one.
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Old 12-14-2007, 12:45 PM
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Can always hunt with a bow.
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  #15  
Old 12-14-2007, 1:09 PM
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Quote:
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Can always hunt with a bow.
Duck hunting with a bow is quite the challenge.
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  #16  
Old 12-14-2007, 1:11 PM
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Quote:
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Duck hunting with a bow is quite the challenge.
lol
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  #17  
Old 12-14-2007, 1:47 PM
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Kes is right on point.

People can change, and it's not good to judge another person based solely on what they have done in their past.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post
Another point would be do you consider that no one is ever redeemable?

Without knowing his friends situation it's next to impossible to condemn him for remaining friends with him.
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  #18  
Old 12-14-2007, 1:51 PM
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Kes is right on point.

People can change, and it's not good to judge another person based solely on what they have done in their past.
People can change. Although. . .recidivism among sex offenders is higher than regular criminals.
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Old 12-14-2007, 4:15 PM
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No he cannot buy, own, or possess firearms.

Sex with somebody under 18 is a misdemenor if you are 3 years or less older. If you are older it is a wobbler for unlawful sex with a minor.
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  #20  
Old 12-14-2007, 4:19 PM
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Quote:
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Kes is right on point.

People can change, and it's not good to judge another person based solely on what they have done in their past.
SO..I guess a resume is out.
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  #21  
Old 12-14-2007, 4:20 PM
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Originally Posted by SNEAKS View Post
Can always hunt with a bow.
Or black powder, Pilgrim style.
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  #22  
Old 12-14-2007, 5:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post
Sex offender can mean many things, while many of them are vile predators, mainly the repeat ones, there are cases where it is as simple as high school kids fooling around and getting caught or other extenuating circumstance.

I did read of one case where a 20 year old got popped for dating and having sex with a 16 year old. The problem was she told him she was 18, admitted that she lied to him including showing fake IDs. His friends and family all thought she was an 18 year old high school grad and she looked it 100%.
He is now a RSO, should his friends and family abandon him?

Granted it is a rare scenario in it's extremity but if you fooled around with your girlfriend in high school you could easily be an RSO who just didn't get caught.

Another point would be do you consider that no one is ever redeemable?

Without knowing his friends situation it's next to impossible to condemn him for remaining friends with him.
It's not as rare as you would think. Happens all the time.

I know someone very well that had sex with a girl he met at a party. They were both drinking. She later claimed she was too drunk and it was date rape.

He is now a registered sex offender.
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  #23  
Old 12-14-2007, 6:04 PM
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Originally Posted by joe_sun View Post
It's not as rare as you would think. Happens all the time.

I know someone very well that had sex with a girl he met at a party. They were both drinking. She later claimed she was too drunk and it was date rape.

He is now a registered sex offender.
That's why young boys of legal f'king age should go after cougars. They will be grateful as hell & won't tell a soul.
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  #24  
Old 12-14-2007, 9:18 PM
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He could end up going back in if he has access to a gun. So, if you are hunting with him and you have a rifle and he a bow, it would be very easy to argue that he has access to your firearm at some point during the hunt. This alone could send him back. Also, be aware that loaded muzzleloaders in the hands of a felon are consider firearms and a big no no.
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  #25  
Old 12-14-2007, 9:26 PM
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Met a guy once, turns out he liked (really) little girls.
Offed himself when he got caught.
Best decision he ever made.
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  #26  
Old 12-14-2007, 9:49 PM
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Haven't had a chance to use this in a while...

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is somebody huffing poop
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  #27  
Old 12-14-2007, 11:36 PM
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The applicable charge is "felon in possession of a firearm"

If you lend him a gun then he's a felon in possession of a firearm and it's a felony.

If he purchases an air rifle or pistol he's a felon in possession of a firearm and it's a felony.

If he buys a black powder kit not only does he get nailed for being a felon in possession but he also gets nailed for being a felon manufacturing a firearm.

It is possible for him to obtain a hunting license and hunt with a bow or other non-gun... although certainly not advisable because due to the hysterical paranoid nature of the California population even a bow in the hands of a registered sex offender doesn't look good.

I understand and respect that this is a complicated world and I can fully appreciate the fact that people can and often do change. Unfortunately, the state of California and federal government do not share this philosophy and if your friend values his freedom he will have to find hobbies and interests that do not place him at risk of being committed to a correctional facility.

Don't get me wrong, I'm an avid sportsman... but if I had to choose between hunting and lockdown I'm going to find a new hobby!
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  #28  
Old 12-15-2007, 12:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scrat View Post
It doesnt matter how close of a friend he is. The law is the law. Dont get yourself in the situation where you lend him a firearm knowing he is a convicted felon. Your right we all have choices to make in life. He made some bad choices. He can not vote and he can not own a firearm. Those laws were out there before he chose what he did. So NOPE can own one.
Who's "Nope?" And why can HE own one?
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Old 12-15-2007, 6:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER View Post
Also, be aware that loaded muzzleloaders in the hands of a felon are consider firearms and a big no no.
Cite code, cause I can't find it.
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Old 12-15-2007, 6:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paradox View Post
Cite code, cause I can't find it.
black powder guns aren't considered firearms till they are loaded (not sure of the exact penal code). There was a case where someone bought one and brought it to school (it was a really old musket or something) in NY and there was a big fuss over it because he was so easily able to buy a "black rifle" without a waiting period or background check or something, and then the politicians flapped about how this "loop hole" had to be closed. The funny thing is I can't even imagine someone trying to use a musket in a school shooting, you'd be better off w/ a sword or something, they're horribly inaccurate since they're not rifled, hold a single shot, and are a pain to reload (which is why when they were used in combat they had rows and rows of guys with them... kinda simulated automatic fire in a sense hehe, 1 musket ball coming at you - no big deal, hundreds of them and you're pretty f'ed)
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Old 12-15-2007, 7:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fireblast713 View Post
black powder guns aren't considered firearms till they are loaded (not sure of the exact penal code).
that is only in reference to schools and traveling roads during hunting. Nothing in those sections relate to felons.

Code cut-n-paste


U.S. Code as of: 01/19/04
Section 921. Definitions
(3) The term "firearm" means (A) any weapon (including a starter
gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to
expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; (B) the frame or
receiver of any such weapon; (C) any firearm muffler or firearm
silencer; or (D) any destructive device. Such term does not include
an antique firearm.
...
(16) The term "antique firearm" means -
(A) any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock,
flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system)
manufactured in or before 1898; or
(B) any replica of any firearm described in subparagraph (A) if
such replica -
(i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or
conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or
(ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition
which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which
is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial
trade; or

(C) any muzzle loading rifle, muzzle loading shotgun, or muzzle
loading pistol, which is designed to use black powder, or a black
powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition. For
purposes of this subparagraph, the term "antique firearm" shall
not include any weapon which incorporates a firearm frame or
receiver, any firearm which is converted into a muzzle loading
weapon, or any muzzle loading weapon which can be readily
converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt,
breechblock, or any combination thereof.
...
(20) The term "crime punishable by imprisonment for a term
exceeding one year" does not include -
(A) any Federal or State offenses pertaining to antitrust
violations, unfair trade practices, restraints of trade, or other
similar offenses relating to the regulation of business
practices, or
(B) any State offense classified by the laws of the State as a
misdemeanor and punishable by a term of imprisonment of two years
or less.

What constitutes a conviction of such a crime shall be determined
in accordance with the law of the jurisdiction in which the
proceedings were held. Any conviction which has been expunged, or
set aside or for which a person has been pardoned or has had civil
rights restored shall not be considered a conviction for purposes
of this chapter, unless such pardon, expungement, or restoration of
civil rights expressly provides that the person may not ship,
transport, possess, or receive firearms.

U.S. Code as of: 01/19/04
Section 922. Unlawful acts
(d) It shall be unlawful for any person to sell or otherwise
dispose of any firearm or ammunition to any person knowing or
having reasonable cause to believe that such person -
(1) is under indictment for, or has been convicted in any court
of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one
year;


California Penal Code
PENAL CODE SECTION 12000-12003
(e) For purposes of Sections 12070, 12071, and paragraph (8) of
subdivision (a), and subdivisions (b), (c), (d), and (f) of Section
12072, the term "firearm" does not include an unloaded firearm that
is defined as an "antique firearm" in Section 921(a)(16) of Title 18
of the United States Code
...
12070. (a) No person shall sell, lease, or transfer firearms unless
he or she has been issued a license pursuant to Section 12071. Any
person violating this section is guilty of a misdemeanor.
...
12071. (a) (1) As used in this chapter, the term "licensee,"
"person licensed pursuant to Section 12071," or "dealer" means a
person who has all of the following:
...
12072. (a)
(8) No person shall sell or otherwise transfer his or her
ownership in a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being
concealed upon the person unless the firearm bears either:
(A) The name of the manufacturer, the manufacturer's make or
model, and a manufacturer's serial number assigned to that firearm.
(B) The identification number or mark assigned to the firearm by
the Department of Justice pursuant to Section 12092.
...
(b) No person licensed under Section 12071 shall supply, sell,
deliver, or give possession or control of a pistol, revolver, or
firearm capable of being concealed upon the person to any person
under the age of 21 years or any other firearm to a person under the
age of 18 years.
(c) No dealer, whether or not acting pursuant to Section 12082,
shall deliver a firearm to a person, as follows:
(1) Within 10 days of the application to purchase, or, after
notice by the department pursuant to subdivision (d) of Section
12076, within 10 days of the submission to the department of any
correction to the application, or within 10 days of the submission to
the department of any fee required pursuant to subdivision (e) of
Section 12076, whichever is later.
(2) Unless unloaded and securely wrapped or unloaded and in a
locked container.
(3) Unless the purchaser, transferee, or person being loaned the
firearm presents clear evidence of his or her identity and age, as
defined in Section 12071, to the dealer.
(4) Whenever the dealer is notified by the Department of Justice
that the person is in a prohibited class described in Section 12021
or 12021.1 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and
Institutions Code.
(5) (A) Commencing April 1, 1994, and until January 1, 2003, no
pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon
the person shall be delivered unless the purchaser, transferee, or
person being loaned the firearm presents to the dealer a basic
firearms safety certificate.
(B) Commencing January 1, 2003, no handgun shall be delivered
unless the purchaser, transferee, or person being loaned the handgun
presents a handgun safety certificate to the dealer.
(6) No pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being
concealed upon the person shall be delivered whenever the dealer is
notified by the Department of Justice that within the preceding
30-day period the purchaser has made another application to purchase
a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon
the person and that the previous application to purchase involved
none of the entities specified in subparagraph (B) of paragraph (9)
of subdivision (a).
(d) Where neither party to the transaction holds a dealer's
license issued pursuant to Section 12071, the parties to the
transaction shall complete the sale, loan, or transfer of that
firearm through a licensed firearms dealer pursuant to Section 12082
...
(f) (1) (A) Commencing July 1, 2008, a person who is licensed
pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of
the United States Code may not deliver, sell, or transfer a firearm
to a person in California who is licensed pursuant to Chapter 44
(commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code
unless, prior to delivery, the person intending to deliver, sell, or
transfer the firearm obtains a verification number via the Internet
for the intended delivery, sale, or transfer, from the department.



California Penal Code Section 626.9
(a) This section shall be known, and may be cited, as the Gun-Free School Zone Act of 1995.
...
(j) For purposes of this section, a firearm shall be deemed to be loaded when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell, consisting of a case that holds a charge of powder and a bullet or shot, in, or attached in any manner to, the firearm, including, but not limited to, in the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof attached to the firearm. A muzzle-loader firearm shall be deemed to be loaded when it is capped or primed and has a powder charge and ball or shot in the barrel or cylinder.
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  #32  
Old 12-15-2007, 8:33 AM
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Just because he is a 290 reg does not mean he had felony charges. He should know if he was charged as misdemeanor or felon.
Misdemeanor=OK
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  #33  
Old 12-15-2007, 9:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paradox View Post
Cite code, cause I can't find it.
I don't have any, I'm just repeating what my PO told me. Just kidding. I am repeating information that I got when calling several different local and state agencies regaurding felons and BP. I was interested in introducing a felon to re-enacting. To make a long story short, every agency said "NO!" so, we decided that it was not worth the risk. I'd ask the guy that want to go hunting if he thinks it worth the risk. After all, he's the one that could be "rolled up".
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Old 12-15-2007, 11:15 AM
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there is one case where a felon can use a firearm. in self defense.

IIRC, from the book HOW TO STAY OUT OF JAIL WHILE OWNING A GUN A CALIF, he states a case where a felon used a handun to self defense...


man i gotta go read that book for a refresher...
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Old 12-15-2007, 11:21 AM
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He could get legal help to clean up his record, but that's expensive and takes time. I assume he could go bow hunting?
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  #36  
Old 12-15-2007, 11:55 AM
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Supreme Court Rejects Gun Rights for Felons
http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/...0/142436.shtml

Guns for Felons--How the NRA Works to Rearm Criminals
http://www.vpc.org/studies/felons.htm
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Old 12-15-2007, 8:21 PM
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Has he thought about hunting with a crossbow? This may be his only option.
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