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  #1  
Old 06-16-2017, 7:59 PM
Cody805 Cody805 is offline
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Cool Ring of fire pistols!!!!! Post some pics!

Im bored tonight! Let's see your ring of fire collections!
Can't find a good thread on these little guys so lets make one!
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  #2  
Old 06-16-2017, 11:05 PM
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not sure if the original accu-tek .380 is a "ring of fire", they are still being made... IMO,any gun that can spontaneously disassemble itself should qualify.
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  #3  
Old 06-17-2017, 2:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mossy View Post
not sure if the original accu-tek .380 is a "ring of fire", they are still being made...
During the 1980s-1990s, the "Ring of Fire" manufacturers were Sundance Industries (Valencia, CA), Arcadia Machine & Tool (Irwindale, CA), Phoenix Arms (Ontario, CA), Davis Industries (Mira Loma, CA), Lorcin Engineering (Mira Loma, CA), Bryco Arms (Costa Mesa, CA), and Raven Arms (City of Industry, CA).
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  #4  
Old 06-17-2017, 4:14 AM
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I've owned a Jennings and a Raven 25. The Raven was actually my wife's. She sent me a text message one day "I bought a gun at an estate auction" then sent a photo. I started worrying that she paid $200 or something for it.
"How much was it?"
$50.
Okay, not too bad.
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  #5  
Old 06-17-2017, 5:07 AM
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I dont own any throw away guns any more. After the Jenmings stopped feeding after two mags and the raven never worked right I looked at the Davis's and cant remember what the other two were. They all went away.

Last edited by Jimmy's; 06-17-2017 at 2:53 PM..
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  #6  
Old 06-17-2017, 7:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
During the 1980s-1990s, the "Ring of Fire" manufacturers were Sundance Industries (Valencia, CA), Arcadia Machine & Tool (Irwindale, CA), Phoenix Arms (Ontario, CA), Davis Industries (Mira Loma, CA), Lorcin Engineering (Mira Loma, CA), Bryco Arms (Costa Mesa, CA), and Raven Arms (City of Industry, CA).
And Jennings.

Not sure AMT should be on the list, they are built like a brick ****house, mine has never let me down.

As I recall, the "ring of fire" manufacturers were all related.
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  #7  
Old 06-17-2017, 8:23 AM
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I have a Jennings somewhere around here that I paid 20.00 for, I still got the short end.
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  #8  
Old 06-17-2017, 8:29 AM
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I have an amt 380, great gun to carry in a pocket
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  #9  
Old 06-17-2017, 8:35 AM
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My AMT .22 has never failed me.
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  #10  
Old 06-17-2017, 8:39 AM
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AMT is not ring of fire. If it is people have paid me $1000+ fot ring of fire guns. Accu-tek is close but not quite. Yes the familes are related and a lot of drama behind the scenes.
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  #11  
Old 06-17-2017, 9:31 AM
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One of them needs to make a " Johnny Cash Special "
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  #12  
Old 06-17-2017, 9:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuolumnejim View Post
I have a Jennings somewhere around here that I paid 20.00 for, I still got the short end.
I traded a brick of Golden Bullets for my Jennings 25 about 5 years ago.
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  #13  
Old 06-17-2017, 9:59 AM
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Raven .25
This was actually a reliable gun until the cast firing pin broke after many rounds fired.
The firing pin was replaced with a stainless steel version and the gun just chugged along after that.
I made a hidey-case from a VCR box (remember VCRs?)



I sold this one to a CalGunner, who sold it to another CalGunner.
Who has it now?
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  #14  
Old 06-17-2017, 10:01 AM
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Most ring of fire guns end up at a buy back since you get more then you paid.
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  #15  
Old 06-17-2017, 2:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rromeo View Post
I've owned a Jennings and a Raven 25. The Raven was actually my wife's. She sent me a text message one day "I bought a gun at an estate auction" then sent a photo. I started worrying that she paid $200 or something for it.
"How much was it?"
$50.
Okay, not too bad.
OTOH it must be nice to have a wife that even thinks to buy a gun at an estate sale.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ojisan View Post
Raven .25
This was actually a reliable gun until the cast firing pin broke after many rounds fired.
The firing pin was replaced with a stainless steel version and the gun just chugged along after that.
I made a hidey-case from a VCR box (remember VCRs?)



I sold this one to a CalGunner, who sold it to another CalGunner.
Who has it now?
Nicely done!

Remember VCRs? Both my VCRs finally went to the TV repair shop in the sky recently. By "both" I mean my VHS and my Betamax. Yeah, try to find a new one of those at Fry's.
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  #16  
Old 06-17-2017, 4:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
During the 1980s-1990s, the "Ring of Fire" manufacturers were Sundance Industries (Valencia, CA), Arcadia Machine & Tool (Irwindale, CA), Phoenix Arms (Ontario, CA), Davis Industries (Mira Loma, CA), Lorcin Engineering (Mira Loma, CA), Bryco Arms (Costa Mesa, CA), and Raven Arms (City of Industry, CA).
Proud owner of examples of all those above, and a few Jennings as well.
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  #17  
Old 06-17-2017, 6:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by splithoof View Post
Proud owner of examples of all those above, and a few Jennings as well.
Mrs. Jennings was a a neighbor of ours in Texas in the early 1990's. Called us one morning to report her emus (the Amway of livestock) had broken out of their fenced enclosure. Wife and I came over with our heeler and got the stupid birds back in about 5 minutes. She showed up the next night with strawberry shortcake as a thank-you. A classy lady imo.

OT, AMT is definitely not part of the "ring-of-fire".
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  #18  
Old 06-17-2017, 10:34 PM
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The "Ring of Fire" manufacturers I listed was from the lawsuits filed against them during the mid/late-1990s.

By that time, Jennings Firearms had already folded and was reformed as Bryco Arms. After Bryco Arms was sued into bankrupcy, they reformed as Jimenez Arms.

AMT was included in those 90s era "Ring of Fire" lawsuits.
Fighting those lawsuits, was one of the reasons why AMT went out of business in the late-1990s.
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  #19  
Old 06-18-2017, 2:36 AM
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  #20  
Old 06-18-2017, 3:19 AM
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Quote:
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love the chromed out Raven.
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Not at all. Trump is a loser and will lose amazingly on Tuesday. It's going to be so big, we are all going to be sick and tired of how much he loses on Tuesday.
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  #21  
Old 06-18-2017, 3:37 AM
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I've grabbed a few over the years. As far as the ones left; Raven in .25, Lorcin L22, Davis Derringer in. 32 and if we're counting them, an AMT Backup DAO in .380. Had a Davis Derringer in. 22lr, Davis .380, and a Lorcin L9 (full size 9mm with standard capacity mags). If this thread is still going in a cope days, I'll take some pics.

BTW, I'll have no problem buying more Ravens, they're actually pretty decent quality for the price.
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  #22  
Old 06-18-2017, 4:37 AM
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love the chromed out Raven.
I call it my classy hooker gun.
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  #23  
Old 06-18-2017, 10:07 AM
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I remember the powers to be wanted to put them out of business because they considered them "saturday night specials"..... meaning too easy to acquire because they were dirt cheap...
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  #24  
Old 06-18-2017, 10:40 AM
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The Roster drop safety testing was originally planned to get rid of these guns.
But hahaha, they passed the safety tests so more features were then required, which brought us the LCI and MDS requirements.
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  #25  
Old 06-18-2017, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan_Eastvale View Post
I remember the powers to be wanted to put them out of business because they considered them "saturday night specials"..... meaning too easy to acquire because they were dirt cheap...
For the antis, that was part of it. The situation was much more complex. Recently I did an afternoon of Google-fu in response to a question in another thread and came up with some background information. It is a highly polarized issue so both sides tend to omit facts that do not support their narrative.

Here is the post:https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/...8&postcount=43

Basically, Jennings set up most of the ring of fire companies with himself, family members, or very close friends as owners. They all produced firearms based on the same design. He also set up a couple of distribution companies and other companies to hide his true involvement in some of the firearm manufacturing companies. His distribution companies would be the sole buyer of some of the firearm manufacturing companies.

Most of the companies carried no liability insurance. His business plan was to wait for the lawsuits to stack up, and after a loss or two, declare bankruptcy, liquidate and sell to a good friend who restarts under the same name or different name, and a few years later buy back the company. His distribution company would also be the sole buyer of the guns and he would be hired as a consultant.

The famous lawsuit he lost was when a babysitter was unloading a Bryco .38 and had an AD paralyzing a 6 yo boy. The earlier version of the gun had a major issue of ammo jamming while feeding. Rather than fix that problem Jennings had the instructions changed to take the safety off, lock the slide back, then remove the misfed cartridge. Well, if the slide got loose, it could slam forward hard enough to fire off the round in the chamber. Had the safety been on, it would have avoided that but made it more difficult to remove the chambered round.

The trial attorneys purchased several Bryco .38s and had an gunsmith fix the problem with a 41 cent part that prevented that. They also had internal company data showing that Jennings new this would be a problem if the safety was off and there was a simple fix and he did not want to do it because it would demonstrate that there was an issue and could lead to lawsuits.

The day after the jury awarded damages, Jennings filed for bankruptcy and avoided paying most of the damages.

This time he lost out because an anti-gun activist did some background checking and discovered that Jennings admitted to DV in his divorce proceedings from his 2nd wife so the ATF took away his various FFL licenses.

During the ring of fire days, he came to the notice of the ATF because his good friend running the Lorcin Factory was letting guns walk out the back door of the factory by the trailer load. Multiple ATF under cover teams not working together discovered they were competing to buy Lorcin guns from each other. They were eventually showing up to the Lorcin Factory and driving off with tractor-trailer loads of them after they were loaded out the back door. They contained serial numbers that the Lorcin factory said were never assigned to any guns they had manufactured.

These guns were marketed by a person inside the factory to the under cover people as untraceable. They were selling on the street for $15 and the ATF estimate more were sold on the streets than through legal venues.

The above lawsuit took Jennings out of the picture before the ATF could get enough evidence to connect him to the gun walking. The guns were leaving in the trucks owned by his holding company.

Bryco Arms have had other lawsuits. Here is an example: http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-8th-circuit/1096698.html

On the Bryco 59, the firing pin also serves as the ejector. This gun is also notorious for jamming. In this instance, a round had jammed and the firing pin/ejector slammed into the primer as the slide moved forward and detonated the round even though the round had not chambered causing an out of battery firing. This was a known defect of the design and yet the gun was still market and sold without a fix. The design flaw was ignored.

I am all for inexpensive guns because poor people also have the right to self-defense. There are many options that are much better than these ring of fire guns that will actually go bang each and every time. Lets not forget the still low cost and readily available C&R guns.
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  #26  
Old 06-18-2017, 12:06 PM
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Our own Jason Davis was part of one of the families


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Old 06-18-2017, 10:07 PM
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I had recently became aware of the ring of fire guns doing research on another question. It fascinated me because I remember those days of the Saturday night specials being in the news and my dad being up in arms about the whole thing.

My dad does not deserve that title. To say he has an anger issue is putting it mildly. He was a home based FFL01 until he lost it because he let his fists do his talking with his girlfriend with a cop watching so got convicted for DV. He has very extremist views so if he was for something I was against it just to make him angry.

I bought the story that Saturday night specials were bad. They were cheap guns to flood the street and supply criminals. Real gun people had bolt action or lever action guns unless it was a semi-auto .22 for plinking. For HD, a .357 revolver was all that was needed. Like many at that time, no civilized person would carry in public.

I now realize this was the time the Ring of Fire guns was in the news. It was also how the biggest anti-gunner in CA got his start and fame and became the driving force behind the majority of the anti-gun laws. The first one he wrote as a proposal to hand off to a politician became the roster and developed out of his work to bring down the Ring of Fire companies.

I have been trying to find exactly what happened. It has been impossible. The antis were the ones talking to everyone. The ATF agents conducting their own investigation did not say much and I can only find a few references to some prosecuted for selling guns illegally out the back door of the Lorcin Plant.

All the companies were connected to the Jennings family either by blood relation or through marriage. One was owned by a good friend. There were two product liability cases that appeared to be well documented in court and shown the issues were known and the fix actually made the firearm more dangerous.

Everything was complicated by divorces and the lawsuits stemming from those. Then there was a lawsuit when one of the family members and an in-law left to start a new company and took plans with them.

Jennings stated publicly many times that the way to deal with lawsuits is through bankruptcy, then rebutting the company after the process was completed.

Add to the mix that S&W as well as Glock spoke out publicly against the companies and their cheaply made and poorly designed guns were defective and the public was safer buying from well known and well established gun manufacturers that stand behind their products and do not need to declare bankruptcy.

Ultimately, it was a perfect storm of screw-ups and finger pointing all around. One thing I am certain of, it helped pave the way for the federal AWB. When that came up, my friends, and most of my family members just did not care. Who needed an assault weapon. Rifles were for hunting. AK and AR rifles were just scary rifles for killing. If the rabid NRA people were right, and they were not used much in crime, the ban would expire in 10 years. Maybe, we would get 10 years of not hearing about guns.

I am glad I woke up by Dec, 2012. That is when I bought my first handgun and started learning about guns and the 2A. I am now a Life Member of the NRA.

If I could buy a ring of fire gun for not too much, I would just to have a piece of history.
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Why advocate restrictions on one right (voting) without comparable restrictions on another (self defense) (or, why not say 'Be a U.S. citizen' as the requirement for CCW)?

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  #28  
Old 06-19-2017, 9:27 PM
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Thank you Jeremiah12 for that interesting summation. Lots of stuff there.
This thread has got me to haul out the box of all the "Ring of Fire" pistols I have collected, and turns out there are a pair of Bryco's I had forgot about. One of them is even colored pink, as is one of the Ravens.
The AMT Backup .380 I have is reliable, but not much fun to shoot. Neither are any of the others.
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  #29  
Old 06-19-2017, 9:33 PM
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i love the lorcin 9mm
why??
because the pos would jam...

freaking gangbanger pulled trigger at me 2 feet away after shooting my friend in head at a party...
gun never unjammed after the head shot...
i testified and put douche away for 40yrs



love the lorcin 9mm
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  #30  
Old 06-19-2017, 9:35 PM
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Ring of fire Saturday Night Specials were defined as melting below a certain temp. Pot metal was much lower than AMTs stainless.
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Old 06-19-2017, 9:44 PM
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I became interested in those small pistols when my grandmother gave me her Colt .25 auto, which she kept in the glovebox of her 1962 Buick Skylark. When my parents got the car, the pistol came with it. She handed them the keys and owner's manual, I was awarded the diminutive little banger.
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Old 06-19-2017, 9:53 PM
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I had A Lorcin 380 which was the probably the most unreliable firearm I've ever used. I sold it in the marketplace here to another CalGunner with full transparency about what he was getting. I think he just wanted to Tinker with it
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Old 06-19-2017, 11:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremiah12 View Post

If I could buy a ring of fire gun for not too much, I would just to have a piece of history.
Same here. Interesting story man, I was the same way, didn't really care and thought AR's were just cool toys. Glad you woke up
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Old 06-20-2017, 5:43 AM
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I have a Jennings J22 with the box buried in my safe. It was a jam-o-matic when I got it. Years later after Al Gore invented the internet, I ran across a post explaining that polishing the feed ramp will fix my jams. I polished it and it works great now. I can hit a man sized target at 3 yards! No jams!
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