Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > FIREARMS DISCUSSIONS > Curio & Relic/Black Powder
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Curio & Relic/Black Powder Curio & Relics and Black Powder Firearms, Old School shooting fun!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-26-2013, 1:10 PM
Zedrek's Avatar
Zedrek Zedrek is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Bakersfield, CA
Posts: 1,804
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default Classic has Chinese SKS'

Classic Arms has Chinese SKS' for $320 pr $340 for hand select.
http://www.classicfirearms.com/c-r-eligible/chicomsks
__________________
My Zombie Apocalypse Collection
Bersa Thunder, Browning Buckmark Camper, Charles Daly 1911, Charter Arms Buldog Pug, Chinese SKS, Colt Double Eagle MK II Series 90 10mm, Egyptian Hakim 8mm, Heckler & Koch P2000SK, Kimber Eclipse Ultra II, Mossberg 500A Cruiser, Mossberg New Haven 600AT, Romanian M69 Trainer, Rossi Ranch Hand .44 Mag, Savage Arms Model 73, Smith & Wesson 1006 10mm, Smith & Wesson Sigma .40, Springfield Armory XD-40, Walther P1, Wyoming Arms Parker 10mm, Yugoslavian K98
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-26-2013, 1:14 PM
Bobby Ricigliano's Avatar
Bobby Ricigliano Bobby Ricigliano is online now
Mit Gott und Mauser
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: The People's Glorious Republik of Southern Kalifornistan
Posts: 13,169
iTrader: 293 / 100%
Default

I was just about to post that! Get em while they're hot!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-26-2013, 1:35 PM
spb_la's Avatar
spb_la spb_la is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,207
iTrader: 41 / 100%
Default

Thanks, OP! Got me yet another SKS
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-26-2013, 1:38 PM
gotshotgun?'s Avatar
gotshotgun? gotshotgun? is online now
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Alameda County
Posts: 3,662
iTrader: 119 / 100%
Default

What say the collective? Should SKS newbs jump on this deal?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-26-2013, 1:45 PM
Armistice's Avatar
Armistice Armistice is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Corona
Posts: 2,388
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Default

Damn. I'd much rather have a Russian SKS
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-26-2013, 1:58 PM
SVT-40's Avatar
SVT-40 SVT-40 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Az
Posts: 7,432
iTrader: 18 / 100%
Default

These particular "Chinese" C&R guns have an interesting history. Very early production. Many of the parts have Soviet proofs.....

They were stored in a so called "neutral" country for 20 years and thus were allowed as C&R's...They were however imported many years ago by Century.

Guess where they were before they arrived in said "neutral" country???
__________________
Poke'm with a stick!


Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddletown View Post
What you believe and what is true in real life in the real world aren't necessarily the same thing. And what you believe doesn't change what is true in real life in the real world.


Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-26-2013, 2:04 PM
SKSer45's Avatar
SKSer45 SKSer45 is offline
Veteran Member
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Mauser Reich
Posts: 4,370
iTrader: 19 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SVT-40 View Post
These particular "Chinese" C&R guns have an interesting history. Very early production. Many of the parts have Soviet proofs.....

They were stored in a so called "neutral" country for 20 years and thus were allowed as C&R's...They were however imported many years ago by Century.

Guess where they were before they arrived in said "neutral" country???
What is Albania?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-26-2013, 2:10 PM
Bobby Ricigliano's Avatar
Bobby Ricigliano Bobby Ricigliano is online now
Mit Gott und Mauser
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: The People's Glorious Republik of Southern Kalifornistan
Posts: 13,169
iTrader: 293 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gotshotgun? View Post
What say the collective? Should SKS newbs jump on this deal?
If you have a FFL03, then definitely. I ordered several of them. Some were beat to hell, others were just dirty. Some had minor pitting or extremely light surface rust. However, all of them cleaned up well and all of them were great shooters and 100% reliable.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-26-2013, 2:18 PM
Timm24 Timm24 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 47
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Wish I had my ffl03
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-26-2013, 2:22 PM
SVT-40's Avatar
SVT-40 SVT-40 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Az
Posts: 7,432
iTrader: 18 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SKSer45 View Post
What is Albania?
Nope!!!!

Albania was the "neutral" country
__________________
Poke'm with a stick!


Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddletown View Post
What you believe and what is true in real life in the real world aren't necessarily the same thing. And what you believe doesn't change what is true in real life in the real world.


Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-26-2013, 2:24 PM
Bobby Ricigliano's Avatar
Bobby Ricigliano Bobby Ricigliano is online now
Mit Gott und Mauser
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: The People's Glorious Republik of Southern Kalifornistan
Posts: 13,169
iTrader: 293 / 100%
Default

It is very hard not to buy a few more of these. I love SKS rifles more than any other firearm. If I was not tapped out from buying a Romy (finally) and a few Mausers I'd be in for two.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-26-2013, 2:25 PM
nubrun's Avatar
nubrun nubrun is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Riverside, CA
Posts: 497
iTrader: 19 / 100%
Default

I just bought one... I have decided that Calguns is bad for my bank account...
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-26-2013, 2:27 PM
North86 North86 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,108
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Is there a discount for C&R FFL holders? Just curious.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 06-26-2013, 2:32 PM
Bobby Ricigliano's Avatar
Bobby Ricigliano Bobby Ricigliano is online now
Mit Gott und Mauser
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: The People's Glorious Republik of Southern Kalifornistan
Posts: 13,169
iTrader: 293 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by North86 View Post
Is there a discount for C&R FFL holders? Just curious.
The discount is that they let you buy one directly. Without the C&R You can't get one without middlemen and extra fees, etc.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 06-26-2013, 2:35 PM
omnitravis's Avatar
omnitravis omnitravis is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: S.L.O.
Posts: 1,240
iTrader: 44 / 100%
Default

Awww yea!
Got my first SKS.
__________________
Don't forget to shop at Amazon through Shop42a.com. Up to 25% of every purchase you make through Shop42a.com goes back to help fight for your gun rights.

"Friends don't let friends play bubba gunsmith."
SlickmisterN

Last edited by omnitravis; 06-26-2013 at 7:10 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 06-26-2013, 2:38 PM
eagle eye's Avatar
eagle eye eagle eye is offline
CGSSA Associate
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 905
iTrader: 37 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by omnitravis View Post
Man, I am trying to get my buddy with a C&R to order a couple, I really want one.
That will be illegal.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 06-26-2013, 2:51 PM
Bobby Ricigliano's Avatar
Bobby Ricigliano Bobby Ricigliano is online now
Mit Gott und Mauser
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: The People's Glorious Republik of Southern Kalifornistan
Posts: 13,169
iTrader: 293 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle eye View Post
That will be illegal.
Yup... I never understand all the shucking and jiving people go to to try to get these C&R guns. If you are eligible to buy a gun you are eligible to get a FFL03.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 06-26-2013, 3:11 PM
Armistice's Avatar
Armistice Armistice is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Corona
Posts: 2,388
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nubrun View Post
I have decided that Calguns is bad for my bank account...
Agreed

This site is the reason I'm looking into an SKS, M39, and possibly an M44, lol

Who needs to pay rent?
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 06-26-2013, 5:09 PM
microwaveguy's Avatar
microwaveguy microwaveguy is offline
klaatu barada nikto!
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: South SF Bay Area
Posts: 1,313
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Blog Entries: 4
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nubrun View Post
I just bought one... I have decided that Calguns is bad for my bank account...
Well as I reached for my wallet it collapsed on the floor and I had to give it CPR.

I just had a $600+ car bill yesterday so I'll have to think about these ........ and the century T53's
__________________
Limit politicians to two terms. One in office and one in jail.

Beware of people who are certain they are right. That certainty allows them to justify almost any act in pursuit of their goals. ( Jack campbell , Guardian)
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 06-26-2013, 5:19 PM
bohoki's Avatar
bohoki bohoki is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: 95492
Posts: 17,943
iTrader: 20 / 100%
Default

if you don't have one get one they are very durable
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 06-26-2013, 5:28 PM
omnitravis's Avatar
omnitravis omnitravis is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: S.L.O.
Posts: 1,240
iTrader: 44 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle eye View Post
That will be illegal.
How is him selling me a rifle illegal?
I don't have one because I haven't gotten one yet. I plan on it.
__________________
Don't forget to shop at Amazon through Shop42a.com. Up to 25% of every purchase you make through Shop42a.com goes back to help fight for your gun rights.

"Friends don't let friends play bubba gunsmith."
SlickmisterN
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 06-26-2013, 5:55 PM
NOTABIKER NOTABIKER is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 6,646
iTrader: 16 / 100%
Default

i bought one from the turners batch about 4 months ago, i was disappointed in it. it was a 1958 with machined parts and no rust. but that was about it. the stock looked like DO DO.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 06-26-2013, 6:06 PM
ogarcia_02 ogarcia_02 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,335
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle eye View Post
That will be illegal.
Why would it be illegal? Unless he is a prohibited person what is the difference between his buddy selling him one and the people that buy a crate of mosins and had pick the best ones and sell the rest?
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 06-26-2013, 6:13 PM
Zedrek's Avatar
Zedrek Zedrek is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Bakersfield, CA
Posts: 1,804
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

What's with people not getting their own FFL 03? It's real easy and cheap. $30 for three years.
__________________
My Zombie Apocalypse Collection
Bersa Thunder, Browning Buckmark Camper, Charles Daly 1911, Charter Arms Buldog Pug, Chinese SKS, Colt Double Eagle MK II Series 90 10mm, Egyptian Hakim 8mm, Heckler & Koch P2000SK, Kimber Eclipse Ultra II, Mossberg 500A Cruiser, Mossberg New Haven 600AT, Romanian M69 Trainer, Rossi Ranch Hand .44 Mag, Savage Arms Model 73, Smith & Wesson 1006 10mm, Smith & Wesson Sigma .40, Springfield Armory XD-40, Walther P1, Wyoming Arms Parker 10mm, Yugoslavian K98
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 06-26-2013, 6:14 PM
gotshotgun?'s Avatar
gotshotgun? gotshotgun? is online now
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Alameda County
Posts: 3,662
iTrader: 119 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ogarcia_02 View Post
Why would it be illegal? Unless he is a prohibited person what is the difference between his buddy selling him one and the people that buy a crate of mosins and had pick the best ones and sell the rest?
Regarding the law, I can sum it up in one word... Intent.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 06-26-2013, 6:17 PM
0321jarhead's Avatar
0321jarhead 0321jarhead is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Antioch CA.
Posts: 2,054
iTrader: 12 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SVT-40 View Post
Nope!!!!

Albania was the "neutral" country
Canada
__________________

"TRUST BUT, VERIFY"
Ronald Reagan
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 06-26-2013, 6:18 PM
BruinGuy's Avatar
BruinGuy BruinGuy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: San Fernando Valley
Posts: 1,394
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by omnitravis View Post
How is him selling me a rifle illegal?
I don't have one because I haven't gotten one yet. I plan on it.
Well you had better get that application sent in ASAP because come January 1 it will be a lot less useful.

As far as these Chinese SKS rifles go I think they're great...even at $350 they're a good deal. I got two back in November...one handpick that is very nice overall, and one that had great metal but only about 60% bluing left and a beat up stock. I refinished the stock (it had to be done) and now that is my shooter. And boy is it fun to shoot! It's no bench rifle but will rattle steel plates at 100 yards all day long. All milled steel and a chrome lined barrel...it is a solid piece. Not the prettiest but exactly what I wanted.

You really can't miss with these...get one now and if you don't like it sell it in a year for an easy $100 profit.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 06-26-2013, 6:24 PM
SVT-40's Avatar
SVT-40 SVT-40 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Az
Posts: 7,432
iTrader: 18 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 0321jarhead View Post
Canada
Nope...
__________________
Poke'm with a stick!


Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddletown View Post
What you believe and what is true in real life in the real world aren't necessarily the same thing. And what you believe doesn't change what is true in real life in the real world.


Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 06-26-2013, 6:28 PM
omnitravis's Avatar
omnitravis omnitravis is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: S.L.O.
Posts: 1,240
iTrader: 44 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gotshotgun? View Post
Regarding the law, I can sum it up in one word... Intent.
Can you please explain? Intent to what? Shoot my rifles?
I have no idea what you guys are talking about, people sell C&R guns all the time I thought?
I have bought three before from him, I saw people buying them at the last C&R shoot.
__________________
Don't forget to shop at Amazon through Shop42a.com. Up to 25% of every purchase you make through Shop42a.com goes back to help fight for your gun rights.

"Friends don't let friends play bubba gunsmith."
SlickmisterN
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 06-26-2013, 6:28 PM
BruinGuy's Avatar
BruinGuy BruinGuy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: San Fernando Valley
Posts: 1,394
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

I'll bite... Iraq?
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 06-26-2013, 6:37 PM
BruinGuy's Avatar
BruinGuy BruinGuy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: San Fernando Valley
Posts: 1,394
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by omnitravis View Post
Can you please explain? Intent to what? Shoot my rifles?
I have no idea what you guys are talking about, people sell C&R guns all the time I thought?
I have bought three before from him, I saw people buying them at the last C&R shoot.
You have to separate the two things. It is perfectly legit for an 03 Ffl, or for that matter anyone, to sell a 50 year old C&R rifle face to face, cash and carry.

It is not legal for an 03 Ffl to purchase a rifle with the intention of selling it to someone. If this is done for someone in particular it is a straw purchase, and if it is done to resell for a profit such as via the marketplace, it is dealing without a license.

It seems fuzzy to some, because some collectors will purchase multiples of a rifle to choose the best one and then sell off the others. This is okay so long as it is done for purposes of "improving the collection" and isn't done too often. The law is vague about how often is permissible and has some apparent grey areas, but what you're talking about isn't grey area...it's against the law. To be honest your friend is taking most of the risk in these transactions, and if he's a real friend you should let him know this.

MssrElegante has a useful post in this thread about C&R rifle transactions: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=782635

Last edited by BruinGuy; 06-26-2013 at 6:45 PM.. Reason: More info
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 06-26-2013, 6:41 PM
omnitravis's Avatar
omnitravis omnitravis is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: S.L.O.
Posts: 1,240
iTrader: 44 / 100%
Default

Thank you for actually explaining, I will talk to him. I assume he knows because he went through the process of getting the license, he seems pretty knowledgeable, but, that means nothing I guess. Better to be safe than sorry.
__________________
Don't forget to shop at Amazon through Shop42a.com. Up to 25% of every purchase you make through Shop42a.com goes back to help fight for your gun rights.

"Friends don't let friends play bubba gunsmith."
SlickmisterN
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 06-26-2013, 6:54 PM
barbasol's Avatar
barbasol barbasol is offline
Senior Mumbler
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Long Beach
Posts: 954
iTrader: 37 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by omnitravis View Post
Can you please explain? Intent to what? Shoot my rifles?
I have no idea what you guys are talking about, people sell C&R guns all the time I thought?
I have bought three before from him, I saw people buying them at the last C&R shoot.
It's called a straw purchase. Your friend buying solely to sell to you. I he buys one for himself and decides he doesn't want it anymore and you decide to buy it, we'll then, happy day. Either way I wouldn't be posting about it on the interweb
__________________
Free Loan Modification Review and Short Sale Info for any Calgunners in Socal. PM me for details
15% commission rebate and 5% donation to Calguns Foundation for any closed home sale by a Calgunner or referral. PM for details*subject to lender approval
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 06-26-2013, 6:59 PM
gotshotgun?'s Avatar
gotshotgun? gotshotgun? is online now
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Alameda County
Posts: 3,662
iTrader: 119 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BruinGuy View Post
You have to separate the two things. It is perfectly legit for an 03 Ffl, or for that matter anyone, to sell a 50 year old C&R rifle face to face, cash and carry.

It is not legal for an 03 Ffl to purchase a rifle with the intention of selling it to someone. If this is done for someone in particular it is a straw purchase, and if it is done to resell for a profit such as via the marketplace, it is dealing without a license.

It seems fuzzy to some, because some collectors will purchase multiples of a rifle to choose the best one and then sell off the others. This is okay so long as it is done for purposes of "improving the collection" and isn't done too often. The law is vague about how often is permissible and has some apparent grey areas, but what you're talking about isn't grey area...it's against the law. To be honest your friend is taking most of the risk in these transactions, and if he's a real friend you should let him know this.

MssrElegante has a useful post in this thread about C&R rifle transactions: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=782635
Thanks for the excellent explanation. I didn't have the time earlier to explain.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 06-26-2013, 7:30 PM
Lurch762 Lurch762 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Southwest corner of PRK
Posts: 808
iTrader: 39 / 100%
Default

Get them while you can, last I checked, they had 304 left.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 06-26-2013, 7:38 PM
WASR10's Avatar
WASR10 WASR10 is offline
membrum ex machina
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Inland Empire
Posts: 2,302
iTrader: 26 / 100%
Default

Well damn. I guess my G21 will have to wait a couple months... can't pass this up.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by pemdas View Post
I have never posted anything sig worthy.
Mark 16:16
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 06-26-2013, 7:48 PM
mievil mievil is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1,652
iTrader: 62 / 100%
Default

304 left? Holy cow they got a lot in. I didn't realize there were that many being shipped in to a single company. I wonder what their cost was? Always makes me wonder what sort of money these companies are throwing around, and how much their shipping container full of rifles cost to deliver.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 06-26-2013, 7:52 PM
BrokerB's Avatar
BrokerB BrokerB is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Folsom , outside the walls
Posts: 2,263
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Default

3 more shipped. Funny when I pull up my zip code for license I see another guys. Zach.. are you here? I see both our home addresses.. kind of funny
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 06-26-2013, 7:55 PM
BruinGuy's Avatar
BruinGuy BruinGuy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: San Fernando Valley
Posts: 1,394
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mievil View Post
304 left? Holy cow they got a lot in. I didn't realize there were that many being shipped in to a single company. I wonder what their cost was? Always makes me wonder what sort of money these companies are throwing around, and how much their shipping container full of rifles cost to deliver.
Century is one of the big importers of surplus arms and ammo; they sell to a lot of retailers. I'm sure they're making a tidy profit on these even at whatever their wholesale price is.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 06-26-2013, 7:59 PM
SVT-40's Avatar
SVT-40 SVT-40 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Az
Posts: 7,432
iTrader: 18 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BruinGuy View Post
I'll bite... Iraq?
Nope....
__________________
Poke'm with a stick!


Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddletown View Post
What you believe and what is true in real life in the real world aren't necessarily the same thing. And what you believe doesn't change what is true in real life in the real world.


Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 3:40 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2016, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.