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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 06-22-2013, 1:37 AM
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Default AR10 in CA

I moved to CA a couple of years ago, but did quite a bit of shooting where I grew up in the Midwest. One of my favorite rifles is the AR10 because I like the ballistics of the .308 for shooting a longer distances and enjoy the AR frame. The California guns laws seem so complex, I'm hoping someone can help me understand if there are AR10 models that are CA legal, and if so recommend an affordable entry level brand/make.

Thanks!
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  #2  
Old 06-22-2013, 1:38 AM
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Yes- all you need is a bullet button, minimum 16" barrel and 26" overall length. And 10 round mags.
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Old 06-22-2013, 2:57 AM
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What's affordable to you? I mean its relative. Someone that makes (def not me!) 1000 a week can afford a REPR or SCAR... I make way... Way way less and I could barely afford any rifle.
To answer your question about a 308 rifle. I like Sig 716, got everything I need on a 308
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Old 06-22-2013, 6:10 AM
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Smith and Wesson m&p10. Can be had for around $1500 if you look. Plus they make a ca compliant model from the factory
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Old 06-22-2013, 6:27 AM
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If you're anything like me, you'll end up buying aftermarket parts after you get the gun. Meaning extra spent money and having take-off parts you dont need anymore and probably won't be able to sell. You might as well build one. Just go buy a matching stripped upper and lower receivers, then slowly buy the parts you want on your rifle...nicer buttstock, handguard, trigger, sights, etc etc. Gonna cost you a little bit more but less than buying a complete rifle then replacing parts with the ones you want.

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Old 06-22-2013, 6:27 AM
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I thought overall length had to be 30"?
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  #7  
Old 06-22-2013, 8:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fiferronald View Post
Yes- all you need is a bullet button, minimum 16" barrel and 26" overall length. And 10 round mags.
Not quite. You also need a lower receiver that isn't in the ban list.

Op, run the the calguns glow chart at the top of the home page to see what receiver you have and if its on the list. Since you said AR-10 I'm assuming you have an older Armalite, which has a receiver banned by name. If so, there are a few manufacturers who have lowers in the armalite pattern that are not banned. Noveske, and aero precision are a few.
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  #8  
Old 06-22-2013, 8:16 AM
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Are you wanting an AR-10 or DPMS pattern? That's the first choice.

Then get the lower that is not on the ban list and build away with a bullet button or go featureless.
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  #9  
Old 06-22-2013, 8:56 AM
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yes for California laws. Fed is 26- http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...22&postcount=2

Quote:
Originally Posted by SIKwitIT View Post
I thought overall length had to be 30"?

skkeeter covered the most important question first - has to be off-list. noveske and aero preceision are popular. ther's another one for the armalite pattern which is iron ridge. OP has to figure out if he wants an armalite pattern vs. dpms pattern. ar10 true to its name is the armalite pattern.

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Originally Posted by skkeeter View Post
Not quite. You also need a lower receiver that isn't in the ban list.

Op, run the the calguns glow chart at the top of the home page to see what receiver you have and if its on the list. Since you said AR-10 I'm assuming you have an older Armalite, which has a receiver banned by name. If so, there are a few manufacturers who have lowers in the armalite pattern that are not banned. Noveske, and aero precision are a few.
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  #10  
Old 06-22-2013, 9:02 AM
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Basically the same laws apply for the AR10/LR308 as for an AR15. Just check out the flow chart and read here till you understand your options. In short sure you can build/buy one. But you really should understand the flow chart to make sure you stay on the right side of the law.
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  #11  
Old 06-22-2013, 8:11 PM
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Thanks for all the feedback. I think I would like to stay with the Armalite pattern vs the DPMS. So it sounds like my options are to pick up something like the S&W m&p10 that can be purchased with in a CA compliant configuration or part one together. At an initial glance, the CA compliant m&p10 looks like it would cost me $1600-$1700. How much would it cost to part one together starting with an Armalite upper and then finding an off-list lower? Also, how hard would it be to build one and how reliable would it be? I not a gun smith by any means, but do have a reasonable working knowledge of AR's.

Another question- I have friends in the midwest that regularly go to gun shows and auctions. Could I have them purchase the upper and ship it to me, and then purchase the CA complaint lower myself? It seems like everything in CA is more expensive, and I'm always looking for opportunities to save $$ for ammo :-)

Last edited by cpmiller22; 06-22-2013 at 8:13 PM..
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  #12  
Old 06-22-2013, 9:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpmiller22 View Post
Thanks for all the feedback. I think I would like to stay with the Armalite pattern vs the DPMS. So it sounds like my options are to pick up something like the S&W m&p10 that can be purchased with in a CA compliant configuration or part one together.
FYI.
The S&W M&P-10 is not an ArmaLite pattern, it is a KAC pattern (which is used by DPMS, LaRue, LMT, Magpul, Remington, Bushmaster)
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Last edited by Quiet; 06-23-2013 at 11:35 AM..
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  #13  
Old 06-22-2013, 9:33 PM
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For an Armalite AR-10 pattern you need to get Aero Precision or Noveske lower to stay legal, those are not listed by name.
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  #14  
Old 06-23-2013, 7:11 AM
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7.62 sass has Aero lowers in stock right now. They are the Armalite pattern you are looking for. Armalite factory .308 uppers are around and can be had for right around 1K.You could be into your rifle for under 2 grand if you piece it together yourself. There are tons of assembly videos floating around the web to assist you in putting it together.
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  #15  
Old 06-23-2013, 10:33 AM
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You can have any AR-10 style gun as long as it doesn't say AR-10 on the receiver. If you want a complete, Armalite, Fulton, JP , SI, LMT, Laure, JD , MEga , DPMS and lots of others are legal with a BB and 10 round mags.

These guns fall in to three receiver types in terms of mating

KAC - , LMT , Larue , Mega* - (Hardest to get parts and only sold complete) aside from the MEga

*Mega receivers are a hybrid and accept any parts from any style but take DPMS barrel nuts , High style rails and pmags

DPMS - JD, JT , SI and 5-10 others that don't come to mind (Most common)

Armalite - Eagle Arms , Noveske , Aero (Don't use pmags)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cpmiller22 View Post
I moved to CA a couple of years ago, but did quite a bit of shooting where I grew up in the Midwest. One of my favorite rifles is the AR10 because I like the ballistics of the .308 for shooting a longer distances and enjoy the AR frame. The California guns laws seem so complex, I'm hoping someone can help me understand if there are AR10 models that are CA legal, and if so recommend an affordable entry level brand/make.

Thanks!
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Old 06-24-2013, 6:42 PM
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Thanks kalieracer. Would their be any issues shipping in an Armalite upper in the Midwest if I can find one for a good price? If not I might go that route and then pickup a CA compliant lower. If there are legal issues with that plan that I guess I'll just save up a bit more and buy a fully built CA compliant ar10 (perhaps the s&w dp10) out here in CA.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kalieracer View Post
You can have any AR-10 style gun as long as it doesn't say AR-10 on the receiver. If you want a complete, Armalite, Fulton, JP , SI, LMT, Laure, JD , MEga , DPMS and lots of others are legal with a BB and 10 round mags.

These guns fall in to three receiver types in terms of mating

KAC - , LMT , Larue , Mega* - (Hardest to get parts and only sold complete) aside from the MEga

*Mega receivers are a hybrid and accept any parts from any style but take DPMS barrel nuts , High style rails and pmags

DPMS - JD, JT , SI and 5-10 others that don't come to mind (Most common)

Armalite - Eagle Arms , Noveske , Aero (Don't use pmags)
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  #17  
Old 06-24-2013, 8:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpmiller22 View Post
Thanks kalieracer. Would their be any issues shipping in an Armalite upper in the Midwest if I can find one for a good price? If not I might go that route and then pickup a CA compliant lower. If there are legal issues with that plan that I guess I'll just save up a bit more and buy a fully built CA compliant ar10 (perhaps the s&w dp10) out here in CA.
There are absolutely no laws against uppers. Order anything you want minus a sbr upper. And if you happen to have an AR308 pistol lower.... Well then you could order any upper made and you would be within the law. Just don't ever stick the sbr upper on your rifle lower.
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  #18  
Old 06-24-2013, 9:55 PM
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No issues at all with uppers if they are over 16 inch OAL for the barrel . As for saving up, if you are buying a complete gun. I would go with a upper and lower set and build it. If you are going for a factory gun, LMT , LaRue, HK are the way to go and will really hold their value if not increase.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cpmiller22 View Post
Thanks kalieracer. Would their be any issues shipping in an Armalite upper in the Midwest if I can find one for a good price? If not I might go that route and then pickup a CA compliant lower. If there are legal issues with that plan that I guess I'll just save up a bit more and buy a fully built CA compliant ar10 (perhaps the s&w dp10) out here in CA.
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Old 06-24-2013, 10:27 PM
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It seems to me like the DPMS pattern would be the way to go if you're building it because it has the most available parts and seems to be well on the way to being the industry standard. You'll be able to build uppers for it in 243, 260, 338, ect. later when you you're barred from buying new lowers so you can still get that 'new gun feel'.
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Old 06-24-2013, 11:00 PM
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DPMS is the commercial standard not the Mil Spec. I would go with the Mega, it allows you to use any internal part and is still compatible with the milspec 308 lowers.

KAC and LMT are issue guns the Army, Marines, Navy. KAC are issue guns for DMR for the Brits and Australians .

Quote:
Originally Posted by promethean_spark View Post
It seems to me like the DPMS pattern would be the way to go if you're building it because it has the most available parts and seems to be well on the way to being the industry standard. You'll be able to build uppers for it in 243, 260, 338, ect. later when you you're barred from buying new lowers so you can still get that 'new gun feel'.
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  #21  
Old 06-25-2013, 7:18 AM
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You can allways buy a 80% lower in Armalite pattern and build it from there..Check the forum in Commercial Sales section they have a few dealers making them..

Thats my next purchase couple 80% in Armolite pattern.
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Old 06-25-2013, 11:19 AM
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Parts seem harder to find for Armalite pattern, your options will be more limited if building it yourself. I think Armalite has a few designs of their own that are not consistent...I think the newest design allows PMAGS to be used, but their original design did not.
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Old 06-25-2013, 11:39 AM
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I went the way of the LR308 (DPMS TAC20 Upper) and a TM lower. Parts fit is terrific. It allows the use of DPMS or PMags for your shooting pleasure. Of course you can go Armalite, I just find more flexibility and more parts availability in the DPMS pattern.
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Old 06-25-2013, 9:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justintoxicated View Post
Parts seem harder to find for Armalite pattern, your options will be more limited if building it yourself. I think Armalite has a few designs of their own that are not consistent...I think the newest design allows PMAGS to be used, but their original design did not.
The first AR-10 used waffle mags, similar to DPMS or P-mags. It was then redesigned because of the now expired assault weapons ban as it used modified M-14 mags which could be grandfathered at the time. Armalite is now going back to the original.
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Old 07-01-2013, 11:10 AM
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I'm leaning towards trying to find a deal on an AR back in the Midwest (either Armalite or dpms whichever I can find) and then get a CA compliant lower (like an aero precision). If I find an Armalite Ar10, can I keep the original lower as long as I just store it as a part in case I decide to move or sell the gun to a non-ca resident at some point?
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Old 07-01-2013, 2:16 PM
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No. Banned lowers are not legal here in CA. The lower is the actual firearm.
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Old 07-01-2013, 4:20 PM
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Thanks for all your patience answering my questions, I think I'm almost there. I found an off-list DPMS stripped lower receiver online. Can I order it as is, and install the bullet button one it arrives at my ffl? I was thinking this would be ok, since its not a lower that is on the ban list, but I wanted to check before ordering.
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Old 07-01-2013, 4:21 PM
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cpmiller22,

We're an 07 FFL in CA and have Billet DPMS Pattern 308 lowers, uppers, rifles... available (223/5.56 and AR pistols too). Give me a call or email and I can help get you into what you want.

A note about the S&W M&P10. It is a fine rifle, but another DPMS pattern upper will not fit on their lower. We transferred some of these and checked. The lower is a little higher than a normal DPMS pattern lower so a normal DPMS pattern upper won't hinge all the way closed. Perhaps this is by design.

Here are a couple of pics from an entry level ~$1800 to high end JP Enterprises barrel, BCG, Troy HG.. that's ~$2850. These and others are available either as complete rifles, uppers only and as assembled or stripped lowers.







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  #29  
Old 09-30-2013, 5:28 PM
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Ok, necropost time. I was at my LGS this afternoon looking for a .308 AR-style rifle and was surprised to run across what purports to be California compliant AR10 rifles--from Armalite http://www.armalite.com/Categories.a...1-a1c018c33ef6. Model designation of the one I saw is AR10A4 BF-CA. Color me confused, but has anyone out there actually seen one of these rara avis? Do they have Aero Precision lowers, as I have heard Armalite has done in the past, without the Armalite stamp in order to make them OLL?
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Old 09-30-2013, 5:41 PM
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Yes there are ones that are Armalite, but they are not marked AR-10. They had a Mod1 SPR model number. Just like KAC SR=25's that have an M110 or just MK11 model number are legal.

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Ok, necropost time. I was at my LGS this afternoon looking for a .308 AR-style rifle and was surprised to run across what purports to be California compliant AR10 rifles--from Armalite http://www.armalite.com/Categories.a...1-a1c018c33ef6. Model designation of the one I saw is AR10A4 BF-CA. Color me confused, but has anyone out there actually seen one of these rara avis? Do they have Aero Precision lowers, as I have heard Armalite has done in the past, without the Armalite stamp in order to make them OLL?
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Old 09-30-2013, 5:56 PM
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Holy old thread batman !
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Old 09-30-2013, 7:18 PM
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Kewl. Which type of magazine do they use? If the CA-compliant version uses P-Mags, I think I know what my next purchase will be.
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