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Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California

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  #1  
Old 06-15-2013, 3:42 PM
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Default Sacramento CCW Denied for 6 Yr Old Possesion of Mari Charge

I am an upstanding member of society. No aggravated arrests, DUI's, etc. I have one arrest on my record, possession of less than one ounce of marijuana in June 2007. The sheriff sent my denial letter last week. It states, "Due to your 2007 arrest/conviction for possession of marijuana, the sheriff does not find you to be a good candidate to be the recipient of a concealed weapons permit. You may have a weapon at home and in your business. If your circumstances change and you wish to re-apply, you may do so after one year from the date of denial."

Anyone have any good ideas or know what to say in my appeal? Should I hire a lawyer? I am a college grad, since the arrest I have started and run a multimillion dollar construction company that works with state and federal governments...we've even bid jobs for the sheriff's. There is no reason that an arrest from over 6 years ago should inhibit me from a right that I shouldn't need a permit for anyways...it was less than one ounce over 6 years ago. Help please!

Last edited by Phatpat; 06-15-2013 at 5:10 PM..
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  #2  
Old 06-15-2013, 3:57 PM
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No real arrests? Was it only a fake one?? Did you happen to not disclose it on your ccw app?

They don't give out CCW's easy in CA so any black mark on your past can disqualify you.

We all have to live with the decisions we have made in the past and how they effect us now. Not sure you have much legal course of action here.
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  #3  
Old 06-15-2013, 4:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DFence View Post
Did you happen to not disclose it on your ccw app?
I am curious as well.

If you did disclose it, did you elaborate about the arrest any how that impacted your life - changes in your life or anything?

If you did not disclose this you lied on your application and that alone reflects very poorly on your character and is grounds for denial.
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Old 06-15-2013, 4:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatpat View Post
I have one and only one . . . arrest on my record, possession of less than one ounce of marijuana in June 2007.

That's one arrest too many. You possessed illegal narcotics.

I don't like the attitude of "I only have one arrest."
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Old 06-15-2013, 4:21 PM
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Sorry OP, life is full of decisions and you have to live with that one IN Cali.

But heck, go out of state and CCW.
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Old 06-15-2013, 5:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cali-Glock View Post
I am curious as well.

If you did disclose it, did you elaborate about the arrest any how that impacted your life - changes in your life or anything?

If you did not disclose this you lied on your application and that alone reflects very poorly on your character and is grounds for denial.
I definitely did disclose it and spoke about my life since then and starting my company and not using marijuana anymore.
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Old 06-15-2013, 5:31 PM
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You can always appeal.... I hear the appeal approval is pretty high in Sacramento Co.
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Old 06-15-2013, 6:11 PM
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Some interesting responses...to the OP...interesting indeed...
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Old 06-15-2013, 6:36 PM
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There is no way they are going to be sure you will ever use marijuana again and they are sure not going to be testing people. It shows bad judgement on your part and they are not going to take any chances. You have a better chance of becoming a cop than getting a CCW.
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Old 06-15-2013, 7:14 PM
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I don't see how one mistake made by the OP should bar him from exercising his Constitutional rights.....
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Old 06-15-2013, 7:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Infidel_343 View Post
I don't see how one mistake made by the OP should bar him from exercising his Constitutional rights.....
You may not, but the person reviewing his ccw app did.
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Old 06-15-2013, 7:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Infidel_343 View Post
I don't see how one mistake made by the OP should bar him from exercising his Constitutional rights.....
He did not lose his rights to own a gun he just did not get a CCW.
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Old 06-15-2013, 7:58 PM
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Agreed, u still think he should appeal
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Old 06-15-2013, 8:02 PM
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I think he needs to give it some time like a few years more and then try again but to appeal now would of a waste of time.
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Old 06-15-2013, 11:13 PM
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As an outsider looking in, six years is not a lot of time between being arrested for possession of marijuana and starting/running a multi-million dollar company. Not saying that the latter isn't true or that it was done unlawfully, but I'm sure the OP can admit that something might raise a possible, red flag to persons that are versed in detective work and background investigations.

I don't believe one can be arrested for possession of marijuana under an ounce. I believe the only way they can arrest someone is if they charge that person with more than just possession of less than an ounce (i.e. intent to sell or what not). So, something is amiss and missing from OP's story.

In either situation, it is what it is. You can appeal it all you like, however there really isn't much anyone on the forum can do for you, to be honest. You can get a lawyer if you'd like, but I'm sure the lawyer would tell you to suck it up for a while longer and try again as a LTC permit is issued at the SSD's discretion and there isn't anything unconstitutional about it at all.
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Old 06-16-2013, 6:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Infidel_343 View Post
I don't see how one mistake made by the OP should bar him from exercising his Constitutional rights.....
It's not a right, it's a privilege. The issuing agency determines who gets one, and who doesn’t. Past criminal activity has consequences and in this case, denial.
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  #17  
Old 06-16-2013, 7:00 AM
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Way to bash on people getting a dui you little pot head/dealer
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Old 06-16-2013, 7:06 AM
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The the issuing agency does a pretty detailed background on the individual and it is obvious that something came up that determined that they would not issue a CCW. It can be spinned any which way: not fair, unconstitutional, persons right ...... but in the end, there are requirements and one of them is passing a criminal investigation.
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Old 06-16-2013, 9:38 AM
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OP was caught with enough weed for distribution. The issuance of CCW's are at the issuing agency's discretion. I went through Sac County's appeal process over a decade ago and they ended up issuing after my interview. However, I had a squeaky clean background, along with letters of recommendation from my employer and character references at the DOJ and Marshals.

You have to keep in mind tbat
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Old 06-16-2013, 9:47 AM
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Damn phone. .

OP could appeal and go through the interview with the LT. However, I'd be prepared to be asked about the charge in great detail and provide proof of why you need a CCW. Could also ask how long it may take for them look past the marijuana charge, if they ever will. Keep in mind that if they issue to a drug dealer, past or present. It could cause political and liability issues in the event a self defense shooting occurs.
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Old 06-16-2013, 10:23 AM
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I would argue that the "Right to Keep and Bear arms" is a right

Arrest for possession is a bit unusual ... but I don't know if it is impossible ..

Some interesting responses indeed... being that most people commit arrestable offenses daily. How many felonies will you commit today?
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Old 06-16-2013, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninety View Post
I would argue that the "Right to Keep and Bear arms" is a right

Arrest for possession is a bit unusual ... but I don't know if it is impossible ..

Some interesting responses indeed... being that most people commit arrestable offenses daily. How many felonies will you commit today?
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...ef=nosim/0sil8
Don't think they told him he couldn't keep and bear them. Just can't carry them concealed.

If one feels that strongly what the 2nd amendment says and feels that CA is violating that right, it's his or hers choice to do as they please. Just be prepared for the consequences if/when you get caught. Stating "it's my 2nd amendment right probably won't help you much in court.

Regardless of what offenses people commit each day, the ccw board is definitely looking at what you were charged and convicted for.
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Old 06-16-2013, 11:32 AM
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I agree with the SO.
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Old 06-16-2013, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esy View Post
As an outsider looking in, six years is not a lot of time between being arrested for possession of marijuana and starting/running a multi-million dollar company. Not saying that the latter isn't true or that it was done unlawfully, but I'm sure the OP can admit that something might raise a possible, red flag to persons that are versed in detective work and background investigations.

I don't believe one can be arrested for possession of marijuana under an ounce. I believe the only way they can arrest someone is if they charge that person with more than just possession of less than an ounce (i.e. intent to sell or what not). So, something is amiss and missing from OP's story.

In either situation, it is what it is. You can appeal it all you like, however there really isn't much anyone on the forum can do for you, to be honest. You can get a lawyer if you'd like, but I'm sure the lawyer would tell you to suck it up for a while longer and try again as a LTC permit is issued at the SSD's discretion and there isn't anything unconstitutional about it at all.
I know they changed the laws about amounts for arrest a few years ago, not sure when exactly, but I was given a ticket and plead guilty to have less than one ounce of marijuana in Lake county leaving the casino. I literally had a tiny little bit, prob about a gram to be honest. I am not nor have I ever been a drug dealer. My company was started with nothing but a few tools. Started it with my brother-in-law doing small repairs around houses like fences, etc. As our name got out and we started advertising we moved into remodels, then whole house remodels and additions. A few years ago when the remodel market went down hill we started bidding public works and federal jobs and brought on a third partner to run a full concrete crew and now all we do is general engineering. This company was not started with drug money nor has any ever come through it.
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Old 06-16-2013, 11:43 AM
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Default Sacramento CCW Denied for 6 Yr Old Possesion of Mari Charge

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninety View Post
I would argue that the "Right to Keep and Bear arms" is a right

Arrest for possession is a bit unusual ... but I don't know if it is impossible ..
1. We can all opine about what is and isn't constitutional, but the ultimate arbiter of that is SCOTUS. "May issue" has not been ruled unconstitutional.

2. Possession of <1oz. in CA is an infraction now, but prior to 1/1/11 it was a misdemeanor. Cited for misdemeanor=arrest.
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Old 06-16-2013, 11:50 AM
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I don't think anybody is saying you should lose your guns because of a dope conviction or arrest. I don't have any harsh words I was just thinking about my family. My brothers boy just graduated and had a run in over simple posession and I can tell you I wouldn't loan him a gun nor write a letter of endorsement to get a CCW until time and maturity pass. I sure see the Sheriffs point of view. Glad to hear you turned it around and are enjoying a great deal of success.
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Old 06-16-2013, 12:16 PM
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First, congratulations on the success of your company. Nicely done.

Now, some observations.

1. If, during your interview, you tried to convince the detective that, "I literally had a tiny little bit, prob about a gram to be honest", you screwed the pooch. To try to minimize drug use to a cop is fatal. If you were even perceived as trying to minimize your act, you lost. The investigator was looking at the full record, including the initial or any reduced charges. They also know if other allegations were levied and later withdrawn.

2. Often, California rules have extended shelf lives. For example: From the DMV website: http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/dui

"Since 2007, a DUI will remain on your record for 10 years. Drivers with a DUI violation occurring within the past 10 years are not entitled to receive a good driver discount."

This was an increase from 7 years. As these restrictions gained longevity, I doubt that leniency for pot will fit the model.

3. It is your right to appeal, and you should do so. Since the basis for disapproval is the length of time since the offense, I doubt a lawyer can help. This has to be on you, and you need to demonstrate remorse, an understanding of the failure and the things you've learned. Humility and perspective are important. Arrogance, entitlement, anger and hubris are game losers.

Finally, as an individual who had two DUIs and now has a Sacramento CCW: "tough". My offenses were 35 years ago, and I've since retired from two successful careers. Actions have consequences; There are some dues to pay.

You have 30 days from the denial to submit the appeal, and you've lost a week.

Best wishes, and Good luck.

JR
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Old 06-16-2013, 12:24 PM
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I'm very sorry for your difficulty.

For the record, I don't believe there's anything wrong with occasional recreational use of mj.

Now, having said that, I've never wanted to use it. Why? For just such reasons as you cite. Often, something that seemed "ok" in the moment, come back to bite you in the *** years later when you least expect it.

I'm totally not judging you because I don't think you did anything wrong.

However, if you think you can have a pot bust on your record and it not be an issue with them doling out a license to carry a gun in public just a few years later... my friend, it sounds like you are still a little "high". Of COURSE that's going to be an issue, especially in a "may issue" state.

I hope you eventually get it cleared up and off your record. Until then, carry at home, and practice at the range, and keep your nose clean. Maybe someday. Oh, and don't forget to warn others that their seemingly innocent youthful indiscretions can come back to haunt them. It's not just "talk", it's the truth about living your life.
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Old 06-16-2013, 1:53 PM
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A drug arrest is bad news.Even in a "shall issue" state you'd probably be denied a CCW permit.

Check the California PC on the offense you were arrested for.If it has a punishment longer then 12 months,you may be Federally banned from owning guns at all to say nothing about a CCW permit.
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Old 06-16-2013, 9:58 PM
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I don't think there is or there will ever be a silver bullet to this denial...
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Old 06-17-2013, 4:18 PM
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I informed them I smoke pot about a month after exiting the Army, camping trip a couple friends are regulars I figured why not were camping! That was April 2004 nobody seemed to care, I informed them prior to serving (2000) I had a also smoked a handful of times. Again they didn't seem to care. When the interview was over they said "you shouldn't have a problem and should be approved, except for your speedng tickets"...4 in 3 months 2 years ago.

But now I wonder if that i just their poker face. Did they give you an idea when you were there that it didn't look good for you or was it a same old you should be fine kind of goodbye?
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Old 06-17-2013, 5:30 PM
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Heck you own a multi-million dollar company your much more well off than most.

Just use your money to buy the best lawyer. Should be no issue for an owner of a multi-million dollar company.
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Old 06-17-2013, 8:17 PM
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Some issuing agencies hold the viewpoint that illegal drug use/possession equates to a person of "bad moral character".
Which means they won't issue because you need to be a person of "good moral character" [PC 26150(a)(1)] in order to get a CA LTC permit.

This is one of the many pitfalls of a "may issue" CCW system.
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Old 06-17-2013, 8:27 PM
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Default Appeal.

You got convicted for minor possession, but I am kind of curious how you got arrested in the first place because that may be a factor as well.

Did you get pulled over and did they find your "weed" on you, did they do a "vehicle search", what were the other factors because those factors need to be addressed.

Did you forget to mention this on the application?
Lot's of ghosts we need to clear up.

Once we know what happened 6 years ago, we can then do damage control.

First, try to get an administrative appeal first. If you can deal with this administratively, you can avoid expensive legal bills.

If it was less than one ounce 6 years ago, the state laws have changed to where it is now just an "infraction" like a minor speeding ticket.

46 percent of the public voted for outright legalization in 2010 and we probably will see probably outright legalization by 2016 in this state.

My point being, while the "Marijuana issue" does exist, it is going away although unfortunately law enforcement is loaded with people who still actually believe in the drug war.

So, I don't expect Sheriff's to be sympathetic.

Now that being said, some things to consider in your appeal.

Has the sheriff's dept hired new deputies who smoked "weed" before they became deputies. You have a new sheriff right now, but he hires deputies who admit they smoked "weed", well can you see my point.

Then there is the issue of Drunk Driving. Many sheriffs won't issue a CCW permit to someone who has a DUI, but often the limit is 5 years.

How many permits were issued to people who had a history of a DUI?

Sheriffs will deny if you are a prohibited person or if you lack good moral character. I would appeal on the line that I made a mistake 6 years ago, be humble, don't make excuses because people who make excuses are people who want to avoid responsibility.

If your appeal doesn't work, then you might want to weigh court action.
If it comes to court actions, then I would suggest you wait until we have solid case law unless you can spare 100k or so.

Nicki
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Old 06-17-2013, 8:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSB View Post
I don't like the attitude of "I only have one arrest."
The All Seeing Eye turns its gaze on anyone in America - ANYONE, and it will find violations of the law. Remember, ignorance is no excuse and is there anyone in America that can honestly say they have broken no laws, including ones they know nothing about? We have all violated the law at some point, I would hazard to say many people violate the law on a daily basis without even knowing it.

And don't forget, what could be perfectly legal today, could be illegal tomorrow!

I believe that once a person has paid their debt to society then they should enjoy the full benefits of being a citizen.
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Old 06-17-2013, 8:42 PM
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It's called dope for a reason. No sympathy here.
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Old 06-17-2013, 9:59 PM
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Every time I see a post like this, I feel like it might be a troll from some anti-gunner looking for some meat on a big expose' of our hobby. Imagine if he deluged OP with advice on skirting the law and how it might play on the evening news. Sorry, as lame as the law is, we are stuck with it. Feel free to appeal, but understand that drug possession is a serious crime and be prepared to accept the consequences of your actions.
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Old 06-17-2013, 10:26 PM
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the majority of those cops interviewing you had puffed a joint and get drunk as a skunk on occasion. Dam shame... appeal it bu the dope smoking cloud have a much different story then..

I was camping in the woods an smoked a joint while fishing.

Or I was at Cesar chavez park with a pocket full of joints

I had a weed charge from 1992(posses a thumb nail of bud).. but i was issued a LTC in sac county..bit more then 6 years

appeal it and better show some dam good character improvements. Get some folks who may be known to Sac Sheirffs to write you a letter..

Hire an attorney from CalGuns : )
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  #39  
Old 06-18-2013, 8:04 PM
Phatpat Phatpat is offline
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Originally Posted by leok20 View Post
I informed them I smoke pot about a month after exiting the Army, camping trip a couple friends are regulars I figured why not were camping! That was April 2004 nobody seemed to care, I informed them prior to serving (2000) I had a also smoked a handful of times. Again they didn't seem to care. When the interview was over they said "you shouldn't have a problem and should be approved, except for your speedng tickets"...4 in 3 months 2 years ago.

But now I wonder if that i just their poker face. Did they give you an idea when you were there that it didn't look good for you or was it a same old you should be fine kind of goodbye?
They didn't make it seem like it was big deal. Went really great, or so I thought. Both the initial interviewee and the detective both were very nice and made it seem like it was no big deal.
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  #40  
Old 06-18-2013, 8:08 PM
Phatpat Phatpat is offline
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Originally Posted by rdawg View Post
Heck you own a multi-million dollar company your much more well off than most.

Just use your money to buy the best lawyer. Should be no issue for an owner of a multi-million dollar company.
Just because someone owns a multi million dollar company does not mean that they are millionaires. Our company has steadily grown and reached the $2M gross mark last year. That means that $2M went through the company. That does not mean I made $2M. Get a job...or create some and help out.
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