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  #1  
Old 06-12-2013, 11:13 PM
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Default Did I screw up? How would you handle?

This afternoon I was on my way to the range. As I turned left at the bottom of my street an older car was in the process of making a U-turn. As it swung around I could see a shotgun barrel pointing out the partially rolled down rear window. As I passed it I saw it had an orange tip on the barrel, but I could also see the front passenger was carrying a pump at the ready and I could not tell if it was a toy or not. The occupants were 3 teenaged boys. I pulled around a curve and pulled over, expecting them to pass me. They must have realized I saw them because they never came around the corner. We were only a half mile from a major police station. If I had called 911 a dozen cars would have been there in less than two minutes. Chances are the car was full of air-soft idiots involved in a stupidly dangerous fantasy game. If I called in a weapon displayed call the cops would hit it full bore with guns out even if I did mention the orange ring and there is a high likelyhood that someone would get shot.
I chose to not make a call.
Did I do the right thing, or did I make a major mistake. It's hours later and I still can't decide. I see arguements both ways. What does the forum think?
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Old 06-12-2013, 11:23 PM
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I'm kinda torn between the two. Part of me says it's some kids with toys acting stupid and part of me says that they are up to no good and the cops should handle it. If you did call the cops you could've said that you saw an orange tip and let them handle it as they see fit.
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  #3  
Old 06-12-2013, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Zedrek View Post
I'm kinda torn between the two. Part of me says it's some kids with toys acting stupid and part of me says that they are up to no good and the cops should handle it. If you did call the cops you could've said that you saw an orange tip and let them handle it as they see fit.
That's what I thought too. But around here, if you report 'man with a gun' (in this case 2 men with shotguns) the cops aren't going to care if they have orange tips or not. They react just like it's the real thing, and I don't blame them. It's just that 10 or 12 cops with guns out and adrenaline flowing and teenagers is a dangerous recipe. If the kids had some beer or pot with them, who knows what stupid thing they do might set off a stray shot. Then everyone empties their weapons. It looks like a bad choice however you decide.
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Old 06-13-2013, 12:12 AM
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I don't envy your position. Tough call. However, who is to say that the other gun was not air soft. Either way, it seems like the kids were up to no good.
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  #5  
Old 06-13-2013, 12:16 AM
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i would have called
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Old 06-13-2013, 12:20 AM
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i would have called
This, some lessons are best learned the hard way.
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Old 06-13-2013, 12:22 AM
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Meh. Kids will be stupid! I think we all have done something in the name of fun at least once in our lives that put us at risk of severe injury or death. Some of us more than once! Most of us made it thru that and some can look back and say, "wow, that was a stupid thing to do!"

If you think they were aware enough to know that you spotted them, they knew they shouldn't be doing whatever they were doing, and probably avoided any interaction with the PD.

Yes, they were stupid, but kids will be kids, and as long as you saw the guns weren't real, let it go. That said, waiting for them to tell them what they were doing was stupid and dangerous probably would have gotten you a face full of air soft!

I'm sure there are some here who will disagree with me, and end up flaming me for saying to let it go, before they do, I ask them to read the first part of my post and think about some of the stupid sh*t they did when they were younger (or have done recently).
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Old 06-13-2013, 12:26 AM
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years ago, cops would have made contact, told the kids to quit being stupid, and driven them back home to be disciplined by dad.

these days, cops will show up weapons drawn (can't blame them with the loons these days), someone may get shot, someone may not. either way the kids will end up with a criminal record, and perpetuate the cycle of criminal behavior.

i'm not sure which decision is worse...
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Old 06-13-2013, 2:00 AM
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Originally Posted by nothinghere2c View Post
years ago, cops would have made contact, told the kids to quit being stupid, and driven them back home to be disciplined by dad.

these days, cops will show up weapons drawn (can't blame them with the loons these days), someone may get shot, someone may not. either way the kids will end up with a criminal record, and perpetuate the cycle of criminal behavior.

i'm not sure which decision is worse...
I'm thinking along these same lines too...a few years back I get a call at around 2:00 am from the Sheriffs Department...my son and some of his friends are being detained near Malibu Lagoon...when I get there, the officer informs me that my son and his buddies were shooting paint ball guns and someone called in a "persons with guns" call...knowing the stupid things kids do nowadays, that in itself could've went bad really easy

I hate thinking the call I could have gotten was to inform me that my son had been shot dead, due to circumstances that were misinterpreted...doing stuff like that back in my day was normal, shooting BB guns, Daisy air rifles, there seemed to be an acknowledgment that kids would be in possession of these types of "toys", sometimes crossing the line

Now, with everything restricted, everyone uptight over the smallest thing, everything is a dangerous WEAPON now, and, it seems like no officer is going to risk his life to get it right...I'm all for officer safety, even BB guns and sling shots are a legitimate threat...it just seems like the force used to "control" a situation has changed over the years...and, its scary what the end result could end up being in a split second

Could have been kids just being dumba** kids, could have been a legit threat...unless I was absolutely positive of what was going on, I would most likely NOT call anyone about it...maybe someone with better info, someone who could be a better witness could get it right, versus my 'assumption'

Lots of scared people on the streets today, some of them wear badges, and, I think they have every right to feel that way...look at what our society has become...all you can hope for is that more good decisions are made than bad decisions
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Old 06-13-2013, 6:12 AM
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  #11  
Old 06-13-2013, 11:19 AM
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Shodda busted a cap in their A****
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Old 06-13-2013, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Whonu View Post
This afternoon I was on my way to the range. As I turned left at the bottom of my street an older car was in the process of making a U-turn. As it swung around I could see a shotgun barrel pointing out the partially rolled down rear window. As I passed it I saw it had an orange tip on the barrel, but I could also see the front passenger was carrying a pump at the ready and I could not tell if it was a toy or not. The occupants were 3 teenaged boys.
Clearly that was Obama, Biden, and Bloomberg - checking up on you.
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Old 06-13-2013, 12:53 PM
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A few years ago, it was common for some gangs to paint their guns blue or red or the tips orange so that police would think they are toys. I personally would not take a chance.
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  #14  
Old 06-13-2013, 12:56 PM
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You should have called.
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Old 06-13-2013, 12:58 PM
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If you didn't actually see them doing anything bad other than seeing a possible firearm on your way to the range, I would MYOB.
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  #16  
Old 06-13-2013, 1:01 PM
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  #17  
Old 06-13-2013, 2:01 PM
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Those airsoft "toys" can get kids killed if pointed at the wrong people.

LE, CCW holder, criminal, etc.

Dead is dead regardless of who did it or what the consequences or repercussion of the fallout are.
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Old 06-13-2013, 2:07 PM
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I would have called... I recall reading about kids driving around shooting out car windows with air rifles... Could have taught them a lesson and prevented some possible property damage...
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Old 06-13-2013, 2:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SonofWWIIDI View Post
Meh. Kids will be stupid! I think we all have done something in the name of fun at least once in our lives that put us at risk of severe injury or death. Some of us more than once! Most of us made it thru that and some can look back and say, "wow, that was a stupid thing to do!"

If you think they were aware enough to know that you spotted them, they knew they shouldn't be doing whatever they were doing, and probably avoided any interaction with the PD.

Yes, they were stupid, but kids will be kids, and as long as you saw the guns weren't real, let it go. That said, waiting for them to tell them what they were doing was stupid and dangerous probably would have gotten you a face full of air soft!

I'm sure there are some here who will disagree with me, and end up flaming me for saying to let it go, before they do, I ask them to read the first part of my post and think about some of the stupid sh*t they did when they were younger (or have done recently).
Thank you, let boys be boys. we all did crazy stupid crap when we were younger and if you didn't, don't worry i did enough for three or four people. all they had were airsoft guns, calling the cops could have lead to charges and ruined lives over some nanny worked up over a little airsoft gun.
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Old 06-13-2013, 3:12 PM
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My brother when he was in his teens got wrapeed up with some of the wrong cround. One day he was in a vehicle with someone shooting an airsoft gun at pedestrians. He knew it was wrong and didnt partake but didnt curb the behavior. Long story short STAR (like swat) pulled him out of the back seat with guns drawn. They knew he didnt partake and was simply wrong place at wrong time. The PO scared the **** out of him to the oint of straightening up.

Shoulda called
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Old 06-13-2013, 3:43 PM
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OP you, nor anyone else in this thread, have do not have ANY idea if they truly were airsoft guns or not. Airsoft gun are designed to "look real", and criminaly have caught on to the point where they commonly do paint their guns / tips orange to "get the drop" on cops.

The REAL question is: You saw people on the way to the range with what could be guns stored / brandished improperly. Should you call, yes or no?

MY answer is YES. Doesn't matter if they are airsoft or real, they are BREAKING THE LAW.
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Old 06-13-2013, 3:44 PM
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I would of called
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Old 06-13-2013, 3:47 PM
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Old 06-13-2013, 3:50 PM
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Call it in with a location and description. If they pointed the gun at you, shoot them.
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Old 06-13-2013, 4:07 PM
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Ok, you guys claiming criminals and gang members EVER painted their guns or painted the tips orange to "fool" the cops.....

Back it up with a link or I call BULL.

I don't believe it for a second.
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Old 06-13-2013, 4:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stix213 View Post
If you didn't actually see them doing anything bad other than seeing a possible firearm on your way to the range, I would MYOB.

+1

With such a BS nanny state mentality flying around I think you made the right decision. We need to take back the streets and start MYOB. Only call the cops WHEN the cops need to be called. I remember being very mischievious (sp) growing up. Glad the cops were not called out and if they were we had the brains to book it before they showed up. We were even chased and outran them once. good times...

Stupid kids playing stupid games. Let them have some fun until someone gets hurt, then deal with that when that happens.

I think it was a good call to MYOB and not call. The most you should have done was get the license plate number IN CASE something comes of it. Then you should have followed them and then jumped out at a red light and ran up and told them to hide their **** better or they could be busted for reals.

Seriously? Nanny state starts with nannies running around. **** these BS laws they are passing and cramming down our throats. They can **** off and not count on me to offer any assistance to some of this stupid **** they want to enforce.
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Old 06-13-2013, 4:20 PM
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Originally Posted by TeddyBallgame View Post
I'm thinking along these same lines too...a few years back I get a call at around 2:00 am from the Sheriffs Department...my son and some of his friends are being detained near Malibu Lagoon...when I get there, the officer informs me that my son and his buddies were shooting paint ball guns and someone called in a "persons with guns" call...knowing the stupid things kids do nowadays, that in itself could've went bad really easy
When kids have good parents that put the fear of God in them mixed with love and respect, they won't do stupid ***** like that.

For the OP, I would have called. Sometimes stupid actions need a reaction to set them straight.
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Old 06-13-2013, 4:26 PM
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I personally would have called. I'd be kicking myself if a crime had occurred and I missed my opportunity to prevent it. This kind of situation is an example of what law enforcement is for, they're supposed to investigate and be nosey.
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Old 06-13-2013, 4:30 PM
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Well, sounds like there wasn't a drive-by later and your stink eye might make them think a bit on displaying whatever it was they might or might not have had.
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Old 06-13-2013, 4:34 PM
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If you called the cops and they showed up and a boy was killed because of a trigger happy cop could you live with yourself?

This is your neighborhood, do you know the kids? Could you profile them? Kids driving in a Lexus SUV with polo shirts are not exactly the same as kids driving around in a Monte Carlo with tinted windows and bandanas on their head.

Any boys the same age live around you?

It's a tough call but IMO I wouldn't have called. I would have stuck around or maybe followed them to see if they just parked at a house on another street. Then you could have decided to talk to the parents or not.

Last edited by Baboosh; 06-13-2013 at 4:37 PM..
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Old 06-13-2013, 4:35 PM
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I personally would have called. I'd be kicking myself if a crime had occurred and I missed my opportunity to prevent it. This kind of situation is an example of what law enforcement is for, they're supposed to investigate and be nosey.
Only reason I disagree with this is because it could affect the kids for the rest of their lifes.
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Old 06-13-2013, 7:12 PM
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Originally Posted by TurboChrisB View Post
Ok, you guys claiming criminals and gang members EVER painted their guns or painted the tips orange to "fool" the cops.....

Back it up with a link or I call BULL.

I don't believe it for a second.
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Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
What compelling interest has any level of government in knowing what guns are owned by civilians? (Those owned by government should be inventoried and tracked, for exactly the same reasons computers and desks and chairs are tracked: responsible care of public property.)

If some level of government had that information, what would they do with it? How would having that info benefit public safety? How would it benefit law enforcement?
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Old 06-13-2013, 7:22 PM
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Did you feel they were kids being kids or hoodlums about to commit a crime. Based on your description I would not have called. When I was a kid we didn't have orange painted tips and we ran around and rode our bikes all over neighborhood shooting each other with real looking toy guns. Our kids should be able to do the same and we should revert to those times rather than stray further.
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Old 06-13-2013, 9:47 PM
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I was at a friends house once standing in front while he smoked and saw two kids (twenty year olds) run out of their house and turn around and fire an Airsoft gun towards the house before jumping in their car and speeding off. I had the same dilemma about calling the cops. It was enough to startle me and I know about firearms so I can imagine what some little old lady would think. I never called but think I should have looking back on it.
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Old 06-13-2013, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by geedavell View Post
i would have called
I would have called as well. Teach the kids that guns, even toys, are something that is not a joke, not to be pointed out a car window.

The kids in my neigborhood play with airsoft but they shoot cans and targets that I gave them. If they ever shot my dogs or pointed it at me, hell would brought down on them.
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Old 06-13-2013, 11:02 PM
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As you stated, you only saw an orange tipped shotgun barrel and a pump. You could not identify that they were firearms, or if they were illegal firearms, or if they were being illegally possessed. It is lawful for a shotgun to be in the passenger compartment of a vehicle (this is not the best judgment, but it is not illegal). You did not see a crime. This circumstance does not require police attention.

It seems like everyone in California is hyper-sensitive to seeing a firearm, and immediately infer that the person must be intent upon going on a killing spree.

Unfortunately, with mindsets this, I have to take extra precautions to prevent third parties from seeing me loading a firearm into my vehicle's trunk when I want to go shooting or hunting. It is always on my mind, that someone saw me put a firearm in my car, called the police, gave them my license plate number, which could subject me to being stopped and taken down at gunpoint. All of this, because some busybody, infers the worst about me for the sole reason that I am in possession of a firearm.
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Last edited by RandyD; 06-14-2013 at 7:19 AM..
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Old 06-13-2013, 11:23 PM
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Personally I would have called. On one hand, these could have been individuals up to no good, think about how easy it is to spray paint a flash-hider bright orange and have everyone thing a rifle is an airsoft toy. On the other hand it could just be stupid kids being stupid. That said, I fully believe in "play stupid games, win stupid prizes". It would have been the responsible thing to do in reporting the situation to the police, everything beyond that is on the people being stupid and the authorities. They do something stupid like point one at a cop, they will surely win their stupid prize.

Actions have consequences. Plain and simple. I would never make the assumption that a gun was a toy just because of an orange tip.
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"Moms Demand Action" sounds less like a gun control group and more like the title of a porn flick from the mid-90s.
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  #38  
Old 06-14-2013, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by morfeeis View Post
Thank you, let boys be boys. we all did crazy stupid crap when we were younger and if you didn't, don't worry i did enough for three or four people. all they had were airsoft guns, calling the cops could have lead to charges and ruined lives over some nanny worked up over a little airsoft gun.
Driving around with weapons easily visible to any passers by is not "boys being boys". If these teenagers were off the road somewhere shooting airsoft guns at random detritus that didn't matter(and obviously not at or across the road), I wouldn't have any issue. But if I see someone rolling around in a car who is sticking what may or may not be a firearm out the window of the car, you better believe I'm calling the police.

I don't think there is anything "nanny state" about expecting people - adults or otherwise - not to brandish airsoft guns, BB guns or real firearms in a vehicle and point them out the window when on public roads. No good will ever come of that. You cannot expect a passer by to know whether or not said gun is real or not just at a quick glance, even if you and I probably would be able to tell.

I don't like it one bit that the general public is afraid of firearms in general, and I think it's a shame that we can't open or concealed carry without issue. I think this country would be a better place if we could. But carrying is not the same as pointing something out a car window. That's a line that nobody should be allowed to cross, teenager or otherwise.

As for the long term consequences of their actions potentially ****ing them for life? I doubt it. If they do exactly what they should do when they get stopped and surrounded, it's very unlikely that anyone will get hurt. As for what charges they might face, that's anyone's guess. They might get a stern lecture, they might end up locked up for a bit. Who knows? But can you imagine how ****ed they'd have been if a cop had seen that?

I'd have called. No doubt.
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  #39  
Old 06-14-2013, 11:31 AM
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Play stupid games, win stupid prizes...shoulda called!
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Old 06-14-2013, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by RandyD View Post
As you stated, you only saw an orange tipped shotgun barrel and a pump. You could not identify that they were firearms, or if they were illegal firearms, or if they were being illegally possessed. It is lawful for a shotgun to be in the passenger compartment of a vehicle (this is not the best judgment, but it is not illegal). You did not see a crime. This circumstance does not require police attention.

It seems like everyone in California is hyper-sensitive to seeing a firearm, and immediately infer that the person must be intent upon going on a killing spree.

Unfortunately, with mindsets this, I have to take extra precautions to prevent third parties from seeing me loading a firearm into my vehicle's trunk when I want to go shooting or hunting. It is always on my mind, that someone saw me put a firearm in my car, called the police, gave them my license plate number, which could subject me to being stopped and taken down at gunpoint. All of this, because some busybody, infers the worst about me for the sole reason that I am in possession of a firearm.
I'm betting you would never and have never stuck a firearm out the window of your car on a public road where someone else could see it.

Having a shotgun or other long gun is absolutely legal in the passenger compartment, you're right. Is brandishing it and pointing it out the window legal? Highly doubtful, even if it was an airsoft. Either way, there's a HUGE difference between having it sitting on the seat and pointing it out the window. I can't believe you don't see the difference. There's a very real reason to believe that a person's intentions are great cause for concern when you see them sticking a firearm out the window.

If you see somebody sticking what may be a firearm out the window of their car, are you going to think nothing of it until some 00 buck is headed your way? I'm not going to wait until it's too late to find what's going on if I have real reason to suspect something.
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Quote:
My life may not be worth the mere firearms, but should it ever really come down to it, my life is worth the freedom. The only reason you and I have the freedom we have is because someone else put their life on the line, knowing that it's not just about the guns.
Quote:
No one is free until everyone is free. If you champion your own rights, but won't stand up for the rights of others, you're no better than those who wish to take our rights away.
"No one will be spared." - Claus von Stauffenberg
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