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  #1  
Old 06-11-2013, 11:45 PM
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Default What are your thoughts on this homemade shotgun cal gunners

I came across this on a social website and the man who made this gave me permission to post it here for discussion as he too is a gun owner and a California resident. He feels this weapon violates no state or federal laws.

Photos of the weapon:

http://imgur.com/a/2PHdj

The original discussion:

http://www.reddit.com/r/guns/comment...emade_shotgun/
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  #2  
Old 06-12-2013, 3:03 AM
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I not sure about the legality of it but it looks quite dangerous as in if he pulls the trigger he might lose his hand.
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  #3  
Old 06-12-2013, 4:08 AM
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Looks safe.
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  #4  
Old 06-12-2013, 4:14 AM
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Shotguns are cheap ... buy one
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  #5  
Old 06-12-2013, 6:48 AM
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Shotguns must have a barrel length of 18" Its a single shot smooth bore pistol which is an AOW. Thats my opinion on it.

Its not a zip gun as defined by CA law. Its legal to make your own firearms, you just can't be an (the) Importer of the parts, a licensed manufacture and pay no tax and you must make it for personal use to be exempt from taxes.

I think its illegal because I believe its an unregistered AOW. If he added a stock and made sure the barrel was 18", its a legal Shotgun. IMHO
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  #6  
Old 06-12-2013, 6:49 AM
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I know a pawn shop that has a barrel full of various single shot shotguns for $79 each. That would be my choice.
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  #7  
Old 06-12-2013, 6:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stewdabaker23 View Post
I not sure about the legality of it but it looks quite dangerous as in if he pulls the trigger he might lose his hand.
My dad lost the tip of his left index finger when he was a kid doing something similar. Not good.
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  #8  
Old 06-12-2013, 8:00 AM
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From the thread...

blah, blah

"2.It needs serial number. I suggest you use your health insurance group ID number."
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  #9  
Old 06-12-2013, 8:10 AM
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I'm going to make one with a broom handle stock and 18" barrel, and turn it into the next buyback for a gift card.
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  #10  
Old 06-12-2013, 9:02 AM
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I think it's a zip gun becouse of this taken from a subsection of PC 12020 defining a "zip gun" (B)It was not originally designed to be a firearm by a manufacturer licensed pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.
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  #11  
Old 06-12-2013, 9:17 AM
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The fact that he hasn't fired it shows that he has no interest in building a working shotgun to so that he can have a shotgun. Instead the rest of his post goes on to make it sound as though he is building a working shotgun because he can, it's easy, and it's legal to do so (provided he follows barrel length and minimum length laws).
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  #12  
Old 06-12-2013, 9:19 AM
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Individual ingenuity wins out
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  #13  
Old 06-12-2013, 10:03 AM
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It will go bang and not in a good way
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  #14  
Old 06-12-2013, 10:07 AM
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looks janky and dangerous as hell..
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  #15  
Old 06-12-2013, 10:16 AM
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  #16  
Old 06-12-2013, 10:21 AM
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Crazy tweeker. A monkey can make this.
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  #17  
Old 06-12-2013, 10:26 AM
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If protectionists have their way, maybe this becomes the way people defend their homes?
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  #18  
Old 06-12-2013, 10:30 AM
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"BAN THE CAULK!"
Feminist would sign that petition...

It does indeed have a Fire Control Group, so if it has a 18" barrel, and an OAL of like 26" then it might be legal, and not classified as a ZIP-gun...
Quote:
Originally Posted by surplus-addict View Post
...As long as the OAL is 26"+, the barrel 18"+, and it has a simple FCG you SHOULD be out of all troubles...
With the weight of it, it might kick like a mule.

I personally would rather pay $23x.yz out the door for a Pardner pump with a steel barrel, but serial-free is serial-free.
In California, this may be our only option... soon.
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Last edited by the86d; 06-12-2013 at 10:43 AM..
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  #19  
Old 06-12-2013, 10:36 AM
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It will probably work just fine, but to use such crappy material as a chalking gun is laughable.

Build a slam fire 12 ga with a grip. Easier time removing the spent hulls too.
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  #20  
Old 06-12-2013, 10:45 AM
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Good thing he is covered under Obama Care.
That , a good lawyer and the number to urgent care should cover the situation.
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  #21  
Old 06-12-2013, 11:27 AM
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Default really!

I really don't know what to say but make sure your health insurance is up to date,,,,
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  #22  
Old 06-12-2013, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheUgliestDuck View Post
I think it's a zip gun becouse of this taken from a subsection of PC 12020 defining a "zip gun" (B)It was not originally designed to be a firearm by a manufacturer licensed pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.
+1000000000

I just looked up the definition of zip gun from the 2005 AG pdf on firearms. I believe that THIS is a zip gun.

Do I need to keep looking? No. I DOUBT that it has gotten LESS restrictive.

This gun DOES NOT FOLLOW ANY COMMERCIAL FIREARM. It is NOT the same as an 80% AR or a home made AK type. THOSE follow plans and general rules. This is just put together and I would not touch it. Keep it hidden if need be but I am going to guess that only a felon would make such a device and then try to feel good about it. Delete the pics, delete the webpage, delete it all and bury this project. If you continue to work on it then do so in secret. Do not go putting it on the web since it is exposure here and now any tech savy LEO can get come after this guy if they want to and follow the proper procedure (which I will not post so piss off and do your own homework).

Am I wrong? Over a SHOTGUN? Jeeze, just go and buy one, they are cheap enough. Oh wait, you can't? I wonder why...
Guess what folks, I made silencers for my .22 bolt action Remington 581S, AR-7, and Ruger MK-II. I made them out of PVC (just to show that I could do it) and enjoyed playing with them and it was all fun and games until that one day in 2001 when I got popped for a FAKE webpage and it BSed and blossomed into a multi-agency party at my place. As soon as I got out on bail (yeah I got 5 days of street cred, *****ez...) I did an inventory check and found my Daewoo DR-200, Mossberg 590, Cobray CM-11 (with 8" upper receiver and carbine upper that came with it) and Norinco Model B Uzi in 9mm that I had the metal folding stock on and an 11" barrel that I got from Tapco. I took all of them minus the Mossberg to Vegas the following week and sold them all off at the gun show to various dealers. I REALLY wish that I did not sell the metal 120rnd drum for the daewoo since it was an AR type of platform with AR mags, but damn anyways. I think like a LEO all the time when it comes to my future and others and they ask for opinions. I feel solid that my home made AK pistol is NOT a zip gun, but this post is about a zip gun at least by CA standards and can get someone into a lot of trouble.


Sorry if the words "ZIP GUN" offend anyone...

Last edited by stilly; 06-12-2013 at 12:51 PM..
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  #23  
Old 06-12-2013, 1:05 PM
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that is stupid. it would maby be cool if it didnt look like a blind retard made it
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  #24  
Old 06-12-2013, 1:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ddevore83 View Post
Looks safe.
I'm sure that caulk gun frame is fine....
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  #25  
Old 06-12-2013, 1:53 PM
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is that an IED?
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  #26  
Old 06-12-2013, 7:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheUgliestDuck View Post
I think it's a zip gun becouse of this taken from a subsection of PC 12020 defining a "zip gun" (B)It was not originally designed to be a firearm by a manufacturer licensed pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stilly View Post
+1000000000

I just looked up the definition of zip gun from the 2005 AG pdf on firearms. I believe that THIS is a zip gun.

Do I need to keep looking? No. I DOUBT that it has gotten LESS restrictive.

This gun DOES NOT FOLLOW ANY COMMERCIAL FIREARM. It is NOT the same as an 80% AR or a home made AK type. THOSE follow plans and general rules. This is just put together and I would not touch it. Keep it hidden if need be but I am going to guess that only a felon would make such a device and then try to feel good about it. Delete the pics, delete the webpage, delete it all and bury this project. If you continue to work on it then do so in secret. Do not go putting it on the web since it is exposure here and now any tech savy LEO can get come after this guy if they want to and follow the proper procedure (which I will not post so piss off and do your own homework).

Am I wrong? Over a SHOTGUN? Jeeze, just go and buy one, they are cheap enough. Oh wait, you can't? I wonder why...
Guess what folks, I made silencers for my .22 bolt action Remington 581S, AR-7, and Ruger MK-II. I made them out of PVC (just to show that I could do it) and enjoyed playing with them and it was all fun and games until that one day in 2001 when I got popped for a FAKE webpage and it BSed and blossomed into a multi-agency party at my place. As soon as I got out on bail (yeah I got 5 days of street cred, *****ez...) I did an inventory check and found my Daewoo DR-200, Mossberg 590, Cobray CM-11 (with 8" upper receiver and carbine upper that came with it) and Norinco Model B Uzi in 9mm that I had the metal folding stock on and an 11" barrel that I got from Tapco. I took all of them minus the Mossberg to Vegas the following week and sold them all off at the gun show to various dealers. I REALLY wish that I did not sell the metal 120rnd drum for the daewoo since it was an AR type of platform with AR mags, but damn anyways. I think like a LEO all the time when it comes to my future and others and they ask for opinions. I feel solid that my home made AK pistol is NOT a zip gun, but this post is about a zip gun at least by CA standards and can get someone into a lot of trouble.


Sorry if the words "ZIP GUN" offend anyone...

Its not a Zip gun. You need to read the law and apply what it says. Verbatim. You can't add in your own words. You can't subtract any words.

Quote:
(10)

As used in this section, a “zip gun” means any weapon or device which meets all of the following criteria:

(A)It was not imported as a firearm by an importer licensed pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto. This doesn't apply, so this doesn't work against you. If a Licensed Importer imports a device, then converts said device to a firearm, they have fulfilled this criteria.


(B)It was not originally designed to be a firearm by a manufacturer licensed pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto. The device was designed and built by a private person to be a firearm. This is its original design. To satisfy this criteria, you would need to take a replica firearm and convert it back to a firearm.


(C)No tax was paid on the weapon or device nor was an exemption from paying tax on that weapon or device granted under Section 4181 and Subchapters F (commencing with Section 4216) and G (commencing with Section 4221) of Chapter 32 of Title 26 of the United States Code, as amended, and the regulations issued pursuant thereto. A private person is exempt from paying tax on a Non-GCA, non-NFA firearm. As long as you don't make a habit of making and selling that is.


(D)It is made or altered to expel a projectile by the force of an explosion or other form of combustion. Yup, it does that.
So a recap;
a Zip guns needs to be
A-a device not legally imported as a firearm. Nope that doesnt apply all the items were bought locally.
B- Not designed to be a firearm, Nope that doesnt apply, it was designed to be a firearm from the start.
C- No taxes paid by a Licensed Manufacture or no exemption given, that doesnt apply. The manufacturer is a private person who is given an exemption from paying taxes as long as they do not make a business of manufacturing firearms.
D- Fires a projectile by force of explsion, Yes it does that.

1 out of 4 doesn't equal ... all of the following criteria;" as the law states.
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  #27  
Old 06-12-2013, 7:15 PM
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Add- You can actually make a stronger case for a zip gun being an airsoft frame with a 10/22 stuck inside it. That could meet all four criteria.

and this is done all the time.
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  #28  
Old 06-12-2013, 7:40 PM
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im not betting my fingers for that chaulk/shotgun
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  #29  
Old 06-12-2013, 7:45 PM
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I still want to see the video where he fires it.
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  #30  
Old 06-12-2013, 7:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CWDraco View Post
Its not a Zip gun. You need to read the law and apply what it says. Verbatim. You can't add in your own words. You can't subtract any words.



So a recap;
a Zip guns needs to be
A-a device not legally imported as a firearm. Nope that doesnt apply all the items were bought locally.
B- Not designed to be a firearm, Nope that doesnt apply, it was designed to be a firearm from the start.
C- No taxes paid by a Licensed Manufacture or no exemption given, that doesnt apply. The manufacturer is a private person who is given an exemption from paying taxes as long as they do not make a business of manufacturing firearms.
D- Fires a projectile by force of explsion, Yes it does that.

1 out of 4 doesn't equal ... all of the following criteria;" as the law states.
You are completel misinterpreting this section.
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Old 06-12-2013, 9:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheUgliestDuck View Post
You are completel misinterpreting this section.
Homemade firearms are 100% legal. You must violate tax laws, licensing laws and BATFE manufacturing laws to create a "zip gun".

There is no law against making a firearm for your own use.

There are other laws which punish idiots who hurt themselves doing it, but that not what I was commenting on.

You can manufacture a firearm which violate other firearm laws if you are not careful.

As long as your homemade firearm doesn't violate BATFE or State laws, its neither a zip gun or an illegal unregistered (non-taxed) firearm.

Its no different then when people say its illegal to own "switch blades". Why do they say this? Because they were told this by someone and they never really looked it up. They don't realize there is a legal avenue to get them. I own dozens of them. I have no permit, no license, I am just a regular guy. They are all legally owned.
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Old 06-12-2013, 9:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheUgliestDuck View Post
I came across this on a social website and the man who made this gave me permission to post it here for discussion as he too is a gun owner and a California resident. He feels this weapon violates no state or federal laws.

Photos of the weapon:

http://imgur.com/a/2PHdj

The original discussion:

http://www.reddit.com/r/guns/comment...emade_shotgun/
Zip gun.
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Old 06-12-2013, 9:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheUgliestDuck View Post
You are completel misinterpreting this section.
X1000
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Old 06-12-2013, 9:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheUgliestDuck View Post
You are completel misinterpreting this section.
You are 100% guilty of that. You said it was a zip gun because of only (B) in that section of the PC when it clearly states that all of the criteria must be met. Meaning A, B, C, and D.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheUgliestDuck View Post
I think it's a zip gun becouse of this taken from a subsection of PC 12020 defining a "zip gun" (B)It was not originally designed to be a firearm by a manufacturer licensed pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.
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Old 06-12-2013, 9:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XDshooter View Post
You are 100% guilty of that. You said it was a zip gun because of only (B) in that section of the PC when it clearly states that all of the criteria must be met. Meaning A, B, C, and D.
It meets all of the criteria...

Start with D...
It fires a projectile. That makes it a gun as far as California is concerned.

Said existing gun a) was not imported by a Type 8 FFL licensed importer as a gun.

Said gun is not based on a pre-existing design by a Type 7 FFL licensed manufacturer. (Sorry, but this is how b. is interpreted. If you can find me the POS Caulk gun shotgun by a licensed 07 FFL that he based his design on, then maybe you have an argument... But I would bet money no such gun exists. )

C. No tax was paid.

Answer= ITS A ZIP GUN in California. Other states, that might be legal, but not CA.


You can manufacture your own firearm for personal use under ATF Rules... BUT... IN CALIFORNIA, it has to be based on a PREEXISTING DESIGN from a licensed manufacturer .... Or, its a zip gun.
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Last edited by RomanDad; 06-12-2013 at 9:32 PM..
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  #36  
Old 06-12-2013, 9:35 PM
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Old 06-12-2013, 9:54 PM
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Looks about as safe as my trusty 887

sent from a galaxy near you
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  #38  
Old 06-12-2013, 10:19 PM
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I wouldn't try it lol
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  #39  
Old 06-12-2013, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ImpaktechUSA View Post
Shotguns are cheap ... buy one
^^^^^
This.
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  #40  
Old 06-12-2013, 10:22 PM
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Raider888 Raider888 is offline
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I'll keep using my Benelli.
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