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Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California

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  #1  
Old 06-06-2013, 11:47 AM
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Default For those who are reducing the size of your permit to fit in your wallet.....

This came up in another thread, so figured I'd post the info that Sac County Sheriffs Dept gave me. The permit issued even when folded in half is larger than a standard credit card or drivers license. The State sets the form and size, not the Sheriffs Dept. Some people are posting that they're reducing the permit 25-30% in Photoshop or similar and then re-laminating it so it fits behind your drivers license or in a credit card slot of your wallet. I emailed the Sac County contact at the sheriffs office, and she said the state sets the size, and any modifications to it would deem it non-valid.

You may not have any issue with reducing it, just wanted to pass on the info. I keep mine in the paper money part of the wallet, fits fine there. This info should be good for all counties, since the state form is the same I believe.
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Old 06-06-2013, 11:58 AM
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The State does not set the size, the issuing agency does. San Bernardino's is the same size and material as a credit card. However I do keep a photo of both sides in my cell phone.



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Old 06-06-2013, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighLander51 View Post
The State does not set the size, the issuing agency does. San Bernardino's is the same size and material as a credit card. However I do keep a photo of both sides in my cell phone.
Local Sheriffs Dept rep said the state sets it. I'm confused.....

Quote:
Unfortunately there is nothing we can do regarding the size of the permit.. It’s done on a form that’s issued by the state of CA for use.. If it’s modified in any way it’s deemed non-valid.



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Last edited by camcojb; 06-06-2013 at 12:29 PM..
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Old 06-06-2013, 12:42 PM
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I specifically asked because of many posts from individuals and was told my issuing agency (Ventura County Sheriff - VCSO) that I could fold it in half and laminate, but must carry the original copy. They said if stopped, especially in VC, it better be the original - copy is not valid.

I know that there has been many posts stating that your could carry copy and reduce, and you can do what you want but I would suggest that you contact your issuing agency and verify.
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Old 06-06-2013, 12:45 PM
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Yours has a picture? Way more information on yours than mine. No wonder it's so big.
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Old 06-06-2013, 12:46 PM
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I haven't searched the question but I was wondering,
If you change career/jobs, does the SO have to be notified? I noticed on your ccw is states occupation..
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Old 06-06-2013, 4:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapperP2005 View Post
I haven't searched the question but I was wondering,
If you change career/jobs, does the SO have to be notified? I noticed on your ccw is states occupation..
I almost tempted to not respond because things become exaggerated and quoted with extra words around here. I actually have a two jobs I was told it does not matter, that my old job is on there. I am sure someone will email their local sheriff office and clarify with the receptionist.
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Old 06-06-2013, 4:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighLander51 View Post
"Miss-use?"
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Old 06-06-2013, 4:27 PM
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^^^^I bet people impersonating a police officer...I would put money some ccw'er on here have a ccw badge..lol
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Old 06-06-2013, 4:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b_madeiros View Post
I almost tempted to not respond because things become exaggerated and quoted with extra words around here. I actually have a two jobs I was told it does not matter, that my old job is on there. I am sure someone will email their local sheriff office and clarify with the receptionist.
Thanks for the input! Seems like it would be too much of a hassle on your part as well as the SO having to always clarify when switching jobs..
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Old 06-06-2013, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighLander51 View Post
The State does not set the size, the issuing agency does. San Bernardino's is the same size and material as a credit card. However I do keep a photo of both sides in my cell phone.




Wrong. While that's a neat LTC card, it's not a legal LTC unless the AG has authorized its use (which I very doubt she has). ALL LTC's must be on the state LTC/CCW form (aka: The Rice-Paper).

Quote:
26175. (a) (1) Applications for licenses, applications for
amendments to licenses, amendments to licenses, and licenses under
this article shall be uniform throughout the state, upon forms to be
prescribed by the Attorney General.
I wish the State would allow sheriffs to use a credit card type LTC (Like Nevada does), but that probably won't happen ANY TIME SOON.
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Old 06-06-2013, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebronze View Post
Wrong. While that's a neat LTC card, it's not a legal LTC unless the AG has authorized its use (which I very doubt she has). ALL LTC's must be on the state LTC/CCW form (aka: The Rice-Paper).



I wish the State would allow sheriffs to use a credit card type LTC (Like Nevada does), but that probably won't happen ANY TIME SOON.
What?
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Old 06-07-2013, 4:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebronze View Post
Wrong. While that's a neat LTC card, it's not a legal LTC unless the AG has authorized its use (which I very doubt she has). ALL LTC's must be on the state LTC/CCW form (aka: The Rice-Paper).



I wish the State would allow sheriffs to use a credit card type LTC (Like Nevada does), but that probably won't happen ANY TIME SOON.
It is the size of a credit card, just like AZ. First photo is cropped.



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Old 06-07-2013, 8:23 AM
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I just think it's funny that San Bernardino County types "miss-use" instead of the •actual• word, misuse.
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Old 06-07-2013, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old_Bald_Guy View Post
I just think it's funny that San Bernardino County types "miss-use" instead of the •actual• word, misuse.
That's because it's 2 separate sentences. It's read as "To report miss" - "Use of Permit"

So if you shoot and miss you have to report it to the business office.

If you shoot and hit, the police will take care of it.
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Old 06-07-2013, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camcojb View Post
This came up in another thread, so figured I'd post the info that Sac County Sheriffs Dept gave me. The permit issued even when folded in half is larger than a standard credit card or drivers license. The State sets the form and size, not the Sheriffs Dept. Some people are posting that they're reducing the permit 25-30% in Photoshop or similar and then re-laminating it so it fits behind your drivers license or in a credit card slot of your wallet. I emailed the Sac County contact at the sheriffs office, and she said the state sets the size, and any modifications to it would deem it non-valid.
In the words of Sherman T. Potter "Horse hockey!"

PC 26175 (i) states:

Quote:
(i) Any license issued upon the application shall set forth the
licensee's name, occupation, residence and business address, the
licensee's age, height, weight, color of eyes and hair, and the
reason for desiring a license to carry the weapon, and shall, in
addition, contain a description of the weapon or weapons authorized
to be carried, giving the name of the manufacturer, the serial
number, and the caliber. The license issued to the licensee may be
laminated.
I have yet to find in the PC or other government code anywhere that lays out any required from, dimension or other attributes other than what is stated above. The state does provide a standard form. The SO is not, from my research, required to use it. (At least one So Cal SO issues plastic credit card sized licenses.) If anyone can find code or reg to the contrary please post.

There are many people here who carry only a copy of their license and leave the original home. Some of those carry a reduced size as well.
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Old 06-07-2013, 12:49 PM
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San Benito County SO issues a credit card size permit that has your picture on it as well as the other essential information.


[QUOTE=camcojb;11522716]This came up in another thread, so figured I'd post the info that Sac County Sheriffs Dept gave me. The permit issued even when folded in half is larger than a standard credit card or drivers license. The State sets the form and size, not the Sheriffs Dept. Some people are posting that they're reducing the permit 25-30% in Photoshop or similar and then re-laminating it so it fits behind your drivers license or in a credit card slot of your wallet. I emailed the Sac County contact at the sheriffs office, and she said the state sets the size, and any modifications to it would deem it non-valid.
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Old 06-07-2013, 12:52 PM
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if I only could get a CCW, I'd think about this
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Old 06-07-2013, 2:24 PM
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Mine is NOT the size of a credit card. It's BIG and doesn't have a picture. It's just a laminated piece of paper (San Mateo).

I fold it in half.
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Old 06-07-2013, 2:58 PM
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Sacramento county issued my friend his ccw after a modification with the issue date the same as the expiration date and amber (with sacramento sheriff) stated that this makes his permit invalid and my friend must wait until July for a modification appointment until he can fix it...despite it being their fault. It would be nice to have a definitive source instead of relying solely on the issuing agency
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Old 06-08-2013, 8:40 PM
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Solano County gives you the rice paper and it isn't laminated. They also give you a hard card they print in house with your photo on it. I was told not to laminate the rice paper so that they can make changes if needed. When I picked it up my birthdate was wrong and she used the whiteout ribbon of a typewriter to cover the mistake and then typed the correct DOB.

You are told that you must carry BOTH. I folded my original rice paper up so that its roughly the size of a credit card. I then took a baseball card sleeve and cut it down (then taped the cut end) to fit my folded rice paper.

I stuff the rice paper in an unused portion of my wallet.

I keep the hard card with my DL. I will present my DL and hard card when contacted. When/if the officer asks for the rice paper I can retrieve it under his supervision.
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Old 06-08-2013, 9:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jb7706 View Post
In the words of Sherman T. Potter "Horse hockey!"

PC 26175 (i) states:



I have yet to find in the PC or other government code anywhere that lays out any required from, dimension or other attributes other than what is stated above. The state does provide a standard form. The SO is not, from my research, required to use it. (At least one So Cal SO issues plastic credit card sized licenses.) If anyone can find code or reg to the contrary please post.

There are many people here who carry only a copy of their license and leave the original home. Some of those carry a reduced size as well.
Knock yourself out. When the Sheriffs rep that handles all the Sacto county CCW questions says it's non-valid when altered I listen. It's not worth the chance to me. I completely understand that some LEO's may not even notice or care, but I'm the guy that always seems to get caught in stupid stuff like this.
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Old 06-24-2013, 7:10 PM
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Reduced 25% folded and laminated. The SO in Yolo said "what a great idea"
I say do what ever you want, or don't carry the permit at all.
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Old 06-24-2013, 7:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wentbig View Post
Reduced 25% folded and laminated. The SO in Yolo said "what a great idea"
I say do what ever you want, or don't carry the permit at all.
I suggest that last is a pretty risky plan - until the licenses are tied to DL/ID, you really need to have that physical document on you when you carry. If you do not have it, how do LEO decide not to arrest you for illegal concealed carry?
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Old 06-24-2013, 7:33 PM
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I don't see the big deal. Mine is just folded and stuffed behind my license. No lamination, or copy, Just the original rice paper. I even went jet skiing with my wallet and it got wet but didn't hurt it at all
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Old 06-25-2013, 8:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camcojb View Post
Knock yourself out. When the Sheriffs rep that handles all the Sacto county CCW questions says it's non-valid when altered I listen. It's not worth the chance to me. I completely understand that some LEO's may not even notice or care, but I'm the guy that always seems to get caught in stupid stuff like this.
Agreed that it's safest to carry what they issue, however whatever the SO told you about alteration is just not supported by any PC or code that has been posted to date. FWIW I carry the original too, but that's just because I'm too lazy to reduce and laminate a smaller one.
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Old 06-25-2013, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael_Js View Post
if I only could get a CCW, I'd think about this

Here, let me help you out with that.


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Old 06-25-2013, 11:58 AM
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As I stated earlier, VCSO stated it must be the original and I verified with local PD - they do/will not recognize reduced copy, so better have the original in possession. I think i will listen to LE.
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Old 06-25-2013, 8:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Simi-Surfer View Post
As I stated earlier, VCSO stated it must be the original and I verified with local PD - they do/will not recognize reduced copy, so better have the original in possession. I think i will listen to LE.
Yep.
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Old 06-25-2013, 8:50 PM
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Ummm...that's exactly what RivCo issues. Same a SanBernCo. I kind of doubt that both counties are issuing cards that don't comply with some sort of State directive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thebronze View Post
Wrong. While that's a neat LTC card, it's not a legal LTC unless the AG has authorized its use (which I very doubt she has). ALL LTC's must be on the state LTC/CCW form (aka: The Rice-Paper).



I wish the State would allow sheriffs to use a credit card type LTC (Like Nevada does), but that probably won't happen ANY TIME SOON.
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Old 06-26-2013, 12:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jb7706 View Post
In the words of Sherman T. Potter "Horse hockey!"

PC 26175 (i) states:



I have yet to find in the PC or other government code anywhere that lays out any required from, dimension or other attributes other than what is stated above. The state does provide a standard form. The SO is not, from my research, required to use it. (At least one So Cal SO issues plastic credit card sized licenses.) If anyone can find code or reg to the contrary please post.

There are many people here who carry only a copy of their license and leave the original home. Some of those carry a reduced size as well.
I already gave it to you, above.

Here it is again:

Quote:
26175. (a) (1) Applications for licenses, applications for
amendments to licenses, amendments to licenses, and licenses under
this article shall be uniform throughout the state, upon forms to be
prescribed by the Attorney General.
Sounds pretty straight-forward to me, but you do what you want.
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Old 06-26-2013, 4:09 AM
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Same here

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael_Js View Post
if I only could get a CCW, I'd think about this
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Old 06-26-2013, 7:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebronze View Post
Wrong. While that's a neat LTC card, it's not a legal LTC unless the AG has authorized its use (which I very doubt she has). ALL LTC's must be on the state LTC/CCW form (aka: The Rice-Paper).



I wish the State would allow sheriffs to use a credit card type LTC (Like Nevada does), but that probably won't happen ANY TIME SOON.
I just received my "neat LTC card" last week. Same card as highlander. I just assumed that since it was handed to me by someone wearing a badge it would be legal.

I just read through the PC you are quoting and I couldn't fine any mention of "rice paper". all I could find is what information was required to be on the license. what did I miss?
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Old 06-27-2013, 7:56 AM
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Riverside County issues the same credit card sized license same as San Bernardino. Also, CCW/LTC badges are prohibited.
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Old 06-27-2013, 8:26 AM
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Originally Posted by welldriller View Post
Also, CCW/LTC badges are prohibited.
They ought to make that one of the prescreening tests for approval/denial:

"Would you be interested in obtaining a CCW badge?"

All affirmative replies go in the rejection pile.
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Old 06-27-2013, 1:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mtn folk View Post
what did I miss?
thebronze already quoted PC 26175 several times in the thread -
Quote:
26175. (a) (1) Applications for licenses,
applications for amendments to licenses,
amendments to licenses,
and licenses
under this article
shall be uniform throughout the state, upon forms to be prescribed by the Attorney General.
I looked at the State Printer web site, but it's not helpful. CA Code of Regulations does not address the LTC paper, that I could find.
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Old 06-27-2013, 3:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mtn folk View Post
I just read through the PC you are quoting and I couldn't fine any mention of "rice paper". all I could find is what information was required to be on the license. what did I miss?
The most relevant portion of the statute in bold.

26175. (a) (1) Applications for licenses, applications for
amendments to licenses, amendments to licenses, and licenses under
this article shall be uniform throughout the state
, upon forms to be
prescribed by the Attorney General.

The only prescribed form that I'm aware for the actual license - is the aptly named 'rice paper'
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Old 06-27-2013, 4:44 PM
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Librarian Librarian is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mej16489 View Post

The only prescribed form that I'm aware for the actual license - is the aptly named 'rice paper'
The applications are standardized, too - this one, from Lake County Sheriff, is the 'approved' form.

Some issuing agencies, for example Contra Costa, insist that an applicant in their jurisdiction may get an app only from them.
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  #39  
Old 06-28-2013, 4:33 AM
Mtn folk Mtn folk is offline
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Maybe the rice paper LTC are the ones out of uniform.
Seems several counties issue cards.
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  #40  
Old 06-28-2013, 4:39 AM
desertexplore desertexplore is offline
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I wish Sac County would just make it a credit card with photo and be done with it.
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