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  #1  
Old 05-22-2013, 9:18 PM
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Default Competition shooting in CA - Magazine capacity??

Just trying to figure out what people use in competition shooting with regards to the CA high capacity magazine regulations.. I want to get into 3 gun competitions, but how does it work in CA with the 10rd restrictions? Do people use standard capacity magazines or are competitions in CA restricted to 10 round limits?
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  #2  
Old 05-23-2013, 4:35 AM
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3 gun matches are not restricted to magazine capacities. For AR-15's, it depends on when you got your AR. Some clubs do have a bullet button division. Check with the match director. I shoot Open, so for the AR it's usually a double 30 and for the Glock a + 170mm extension (27 rounds)

Last edited by HighLander51; 05-23-2013 at 4:45 AM..
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  #3  
Old 05-23-2013, 4:50 AM
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Thanks!
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  #4  
Old 05-23-2013, 6:59 AM
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Do you see XD(m) 9mm very often, for folks that somehow have them, with their standard 19 round mags, or 140/170 extensions? Or all 'older' Glock?
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Old 05-23-2013, 7:46 AM
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How can you possess an XDm hi cap mag legally in California? LE? The XDm was not available until after the high cap mag ban in Ca, in 2000.
All the competition shooter I know and see, all run legal guns and magazines.
Shooters that can not own high cap mags for one reason or another, just shoot, Limited 10, Production, or Single Stack, or shoot IDPA.
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Old 05-23-2013, 8:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3GunFunShooter View Post
How can you possess an XDm hi cap mag legally in California? LE? The XDm was not available until after the high cap mag ban in Ca, in 2000.
Currently, the possession of a magazine over 10 rounds is not illegal - regardless of the gun.

That could change soon in CA. Senate bill 396 makes even possession illegal.
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Old 05-23-2013, 8:48 AM
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Possession of a hi cap mag is illegal in california if it is assembled, especially one as new as an xdm
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Old 05-23-2013, 8:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3GunFunShooter View Post
How can you possess an XDm hi cap mag legally in California? LE? The XDm was not available until after the high cap mag ban in Ca, in 2000.
All the competition shooter I know and see, all run legal guns and magazines.
Shooters that can not own high cap mags for one reason or another, just shoot, Limited 10, Production, or Single Stack, or shoot IDPA.
Doesn't matter if the magazine existed before the law. Technically if you had large capacity before the law you could rebuild them into any type of magazine. This also goes for changing the capacity, once it's a large capacity you can add extensions and make it higher under the law legally.
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Old 05-23-2013, 8:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmw777 View Post
Possession of a hi cap mag is illegal in california if it is assembled, especially one as new as an xdm
Possession of one is NOT illegal. You cannot sell, import, or manufacture them, but possessing them is legal.
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Old 05-23-2013, 9:01 AM
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And using them is legal too?
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Old 05-23-2013, 9:04 AM
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I was always given hi caps disassembled by my FFLs and told I had to block them before assembling basically
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Old 05-23-2013, 9:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmw777 View Post
And using them is legal too?
Yes they are legal to use.
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Old 05-23-2013, 9:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vtabiker View Post
Possession of one is NOT illegal. You cannot sell, import, or manufacture them, but possessing them is legal.
This^

Of you assembled one then that is the crime, not the possession. Finding and buying is legal, the person committing the crime is the one who sold it to you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmw777 View Post
And using them is legal too?

As long as you do not use them with a current legally defined fix magazine, yes, use of 11+ round magazines is legal.

Last edited by Dantedamean; 05-23-2013 at 9:14 AM..
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  #14  
Old 05-23-2013, 9:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmw777 View Post
Possession of a hi cap mag is illegal in california if it is assembled, especially one as new as an xdm

No.
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Old 05-23-2013, 9:13 AM
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My opinion is, why take a chance and have attention brought upon you?
Sorry, but to me it is just not worth the hassle.
I would rather spend my time, energy, money on staying out of trouble, and on shooting with legal gear, no questions asked.
There are plenty of guns to shoot in competition that hi cap mags were available before 2000.
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Old 05-23-2013, 9:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vtabiker View Post
Yes they are legal to use.
Note that we are talking about pistols here.

Rifles with 'evil features' are different. No magazines over 10 rounds.
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Old 05-23-2013, 9:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantedamean View Post
This^

Of you assembled one then that is the crime, not the possession. Finding and buying is legal, the person committing the crime is the one who sold it to you.


As long as you do not use them with a current legally defined fix magazine, yes, use of 11+ round magazines is legal.

Exactly

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3GunFunShooter View Post
My opinion is, why take a chance and have attention brought upon you?
Sorry, but to me it is just not worth the hassle.
I would rather spend my time, energy, money on staying out of trouble, and on shooting with legal gear, no questions asked.
There are plenty of guns to shoot in competition that hi cap mags were available before 2000.

There is no chance, it's perfectly and completely legal no gray area at all.
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Old 05-23-2013, 9:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huck View Post
Note that we are talking about pistols here.

Rifles with 'evil features' are different. No magazines over 10 rounds.


Yeah, that is the exception
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  #19  
Old 05-23-2013, 9:28 AM
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So your saying I can use 17 round glock mags?
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  #20  
Old 05-23-2013, 10:32 AM
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All you could ever want to know:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=387409
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  #21  
Old 05-23-2013, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d0wnShifT View Post
Just trying to figure out what people use in competition shooting with regards to the CA high capacity magazine regulations.. I want to get into 3 gun competitions, but how does it work in CA with the 10rd restrictions? Do people use standard capacity magazines or are competitions in CA restricted to 10 round limits?
I donít know about 3 gun specifically, but the pistol events I shoot have a L-10 division which is for people using 10 round or less magazines. Of the 50 or so people who show up, there are usually only five or six of us in the L-10 division. Most people use higher capacity magazines.
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  #22  
Old 05-23-2013, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brian5271 View Post
I donít know about 3 gun specifically, but the pistol events I shoot have a L-10 division which is for people using 10 round or less magazines. Of the 50 or so people who show up, there are usually only five or six of us in the L-10 division. Most people use higher capacity magazines.
In USPSA, the Production division is limited to 10 rounds too.

Only the Heavy Metal category has a magazine capacity restriction in 3-gun (10 rounds). All the divisions restrict the length of the magazines, though.
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Old 05-23-2013, 11:37 AM
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If you cannot buy them, assemble them, or import them, how can you legally have them if you aren't Leo?
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Old 05-23-2013, 11:40 AM
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Good to know about the 3 gun magazine limits for competition. I've always wondered
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Old 05-23-2013, 11:52 AM
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Some clubs also have a CA Legal class (I.e. 10 round mag capacity). Piru, Pala and West End Gun Club all have it now. That being said, running a featureless AR with hicaps is the recommended legal configuration.
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Old 05-23-2013, 12:27 PM
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has any one who uses these hi cap mags ever been confronted about it real world by law enforcement? or is this all just assumptions?
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  #27  
Old 05-23-2013, 1:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmw777 View Post
has any one who uses these hi cap normal capacity mags ever been confronted about it real world by law enforcement? or is this all just assumptions?
They are legal, so no.
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  #28  
Old 05-23-2013, 1:43 PM
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How are they legal if you cannot buy them, transfer them, or assemble them?
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Old 05-23-2013, 1:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmw777 View Post
If you cannot buy them, assemble them, or import them, how can you legally have them if you aren't Leo?
Because many of us have been shooting since before December 31, 1999. I and many of my friends maxed out our credit cards in 1993 (federal ban) and again in 1999 (CA ban). Lots of people own mags for guns they don't have (on the off chance they might buy one in the future).

Many of us also get to shoot fully featured ARs with 30 round mags and no bullet buttons, again because be bought them prior to 12/31/99.
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Old 05-23-2013, 1:48 PM
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These guys are talking about brand new guns though
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Old 05-23-2013, 1:51 PM
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My pre-ban Glock mags work in any 9mm Glock (even a Gen-4) and my AR mags work in any AR chambered in 223/5.56.
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Old 05-23-2013, 1:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmw777 View Post
If you cannot buy them, assemble them, or import them, how can you legally have them if you aren't Leo?
That is the catch. But if you exercise your right to remain silent and don't talk yourself into a felony then the burden is on the DA to show how you acquired them.

For example: if you bought a rebuild kit with your credit card and had it shipped to your house and then assembled them, I'm pretty sure that the DA can make a pretty good case for you manufacturing. This is one of those situations where you need to determine how comfortable you are with the level of risk you're willing to accept.

I think a lot of people here just read that "possession isnt illegal" and just figure they can get away with it. But weigh the value of that extra few rounds per mag with a lifetime ban on firearms from a felony charge. Is it worth it to you.
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Old 05-23-2013, 1:55 PM
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I agree
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Old 05-23-2013, 2:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmw777 View Post
These guys are talking about brand new guns though
Exactly.

So the question becomes, how did they legally acquire the high cap mags? Their posession isnt illegal, but if the shooter is a 22yr old (couldnt acquire the gun before 2000)with a gun designed and first sold 3 years ago(no pre 2000 compatible mags), it makes you wonder what odd series of events ended with them having the mags. The easiest conclusion is that they are guilty of a felony and all the police have to prove is how they did it.

Also, your best fighting chance is also to keep quiet and not offer any ideas about how you got them. If you mess up and implicate yourself then the police don't have to do any of the work to prove how you did it.
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Old 05-23-2013, 2:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vtabiker View Post
Doesn't matter if the magazine existed before the law. Technically if you had large capacity before the law you could rebuild them into any type of magazine. This also goes for changing the capacity, once it's a large capacity you can add extensions and make it higher under the law legally.
This answer is too vague to be true. You cannot rebuild a large capacity "into ANY TYPE of magazine", only the same magazine for the same gun. For example, if you had a large cap beretta 92 mag, you cant "rebuild" it into a xdm large cap and then get rid of the beretta mag. It must be same for same.

I think changing the capacity of the mag is a grey area if some of the parts are interchangeable (follower and baseplate) but I have no idea and would leave that up to a legal beagle.

So if you legally have a large cap you aren't magically entitled to have large caps for all your guns. The idea is that you always have the same number of hig caps as you did on Jan 1, 2000.
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  #36  
Old 05-23-2013, 2:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmw777 View Post
These guys are talking about brand new guns though
The magazines are separate from a gun, you are allowed to "rebuild" magazines, nothing in the law says the magazines have to be rebuild for the same make and model as the original. That's how people legally "building" magazines that didn't exist before the manufacturing/sales ban in 99. Also, once it's over 10 rounds its a large capacity mag, nothing says you can't change the capacity.

There are multiple legal ways to posses a large capacity magazine, although most of them involve someone else breaking the law on selling, importing, and manufacturing. There is nothing illegal about you taking possession of it is someone else does one of those, and if you do it then you're breaking the law for one of those items not possessing it, although there is a SOL of 3 years....

It's kinda legal semantics, but it is the letter of the law.

Last edited by vtabiker; 05-23-2013 at 2:41 PM..
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Old 05-23-2013, 2:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleighter View Post
This answer is too vague to be true. You cannot rebuild a large capacity "into ANY TYPE of magazine", only the same magazine for the same gun. For example, if you had a large cap beretta 92 mag, you cant "rebuild" it into a xdm large cap and then get rid of the beretta mag. It must be same for same.

I think changing the capacity of the mag is a grey area if some of the parts are interchangeable (follower and baseplate) but I have no idea and would leave that up to a legal beagle.

So if you legally have a large cap you aren't magically entitled to have large caps for all your guns. The idea is that you always have the same number of hig caps as you did on Jan 1, 2000.

Yes, if you had 5 large cap mags pre-ban then you can have 5 large caps mags, you can rebuild them into other types of mags legally.

There is nothing in the law that says it has to be rebuilt into same for same, it's just not there.

Also, anything over 10 is a large cap mag, there is no language in the law that says it must be rebuilt into the exact same capacity, it's a large capacity mag period.

Honestly the law is very poorly written and they could have included language that prevented that, but they didn't. I'm surprised they they didn't add taking possession of one after the 1999 to the list.

Anyway, this all could be a moot point in the not to distant future.

Last edited by vtabiker; 05-23-2013 at 2:44 PM..
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  #38  
Old 05-23-2013, 3:03 PM
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So with the laws as they are standing today.

I'm in the process of buying an XDM 5.25 9mm SSE

It comes with 3 magazines which hold 19rds each.

Before I leave the LGS with this beauty the magazines will be blocked to only allow 10rds in each one. 10/19 magazines now.

Because this was an SSE purchase would I be breaking the law because I purchased these magazines?
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Old 05-23-2013, 3:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdawg View Post
So with the laws as they are standing today.

I'm in the process of buying an XDM 5.25 9mm SSE

It comes with 3 magazines which hold 19rds each.

Before I leave the LGS with this beauty the magazines will be blocked to only allow 10rds in each one. 10/19 magazines now.

Because this was an SSE purchase would I be breaking the law because I purchased these magazines?
Penal Code 16740 states:

As used in this section, "large-capacity magazine"
means any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept
more than 10 rounds, but shall not be construed to include any of
the following:
(A) A feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it
cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.
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Old 05-24-2013, 2:52 PM
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The problem I have with pinned mags in a competition gun for IDPA or USPSA is cleaning them at a match after dropping them on the ground. Seems like it would be hard to get a brush all the way in the mag tube.
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