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  #41  
Old 05-22-2013, 4:51 PM
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Whoever these people are, you need to tell them you expect a full refund asap or you will call DOJ, the police, and a lawyer, do not let them get away with this, I hate people that play this game, name the store, so everyone can send them a letter and phone calls, I will.



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  #42  
Old 05-22-2013, 5:24 PM
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I just counted 46 new SR22's listed on gunbroker. They're obviously not hard to find. What's the LGS's excuse? They need to produce your gun, or your money.

Out the store.

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  #43  
Old 05-22-2013, 7:43 PM
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Thanks again everyone I am going there tomorrow to talk in person and see what they do. Again I understand some stuff is hard to get but I have seen this gun at other places and as mentioned gun broker. I know they need to make a buck. Buy it from gun broker and mark it up 50 bucks or so. I have waited 5 months!
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  #44  
Old 05-23-2013, 4:03 PM
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Well went to "Now I will say the name" Guns of distinction about getting my money back. Let me make a correction it has only been 4 months not 5 that I have been waiting for this gun. I went and asked them to please call their supplier and give me a date on when it would be in. After the kid Ross made a few calls and got through to somebody he stated it was on back orderer and there is no date. I tryed to remind Ross that when I first came in I noticed a P22 in the case for sale and asked him if he thought the ruger was a better gun. He stated yes! I then asked him how long to get and he stated a couple weeks to a month. He stated this right in front of a friend that was with me. Now he claims he never said that. The only reason I paid in full is because he said this. I talked to a so called owner that liked to say NON REFUNDABLE alot and said I would just have to wait or get something else. I told him of my 2 other buddies that have changed their orders now three times and I didn't want to go through this and wanted to get my money back. He even asked why did you pay in full? I told him because your employee stated a couple weeks to a month. He ten said call him next week because he only works Thursdays and Fridays.

I will say I have learnd the hard way!
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  #45  
Old 05-23-2013, 4:20 PM
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Go to small claims court and file a case against them. They might change their tune. Bring in the witness to what they said. You should also have a witness to them saying that they don't know how long it will be. Nonrefundable is in regards to your changing your mind, not their not being able to deliver. Ask them to see proof that the ordered the firearms (which most likely they don't have). Get a witness to your asking and their response. If you win in court, you get your fees back.
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  #46  
Old 05-23-2013, 4:26 PM
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No, if he wins in court he then gets to start the PROCESS of ATTEMPTING to get his money back.
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  #47  
Old 05-23-2013, 4:32 PM
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I've seen a few court cases where "non refundable" meant nothing to the judge and awarded accordingly to the plaintiff

You might want to remind the owner of the LGS that "non refundable" only applies if YOU back out of the deal or cannot complete the purchase...it's null and void if HE cannot satisfy his end of the "contract" in a reasonable amount of time...4 to 5 months without expressing that type of time frame seems unreasonable to me for this type of purchase

One possible problem he may be encountering is finding one in which he can still make a profit on, based on the amount you paid, but, that is not your problem...if his sources are overcharging him to the point he can't make a profit on the sale, it's of no consequence to you

You can file a small claims action against him, including your out of pocket expenses, that may get him to reconsider his position...If not, let him explain to a judge why he has not honored his end of the contract and won't refund your money
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  #48  
Old 05-23-2013, 5:06 PM
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Wow after that long they still aren't even willing to do the refund? I mean at this point it has nothing to do with selling a $400 gun and everything to do with hoping you don't tell your friends. This is the kinda crap that makes the little stores lose business on the quick.

Now, what I'd probably do is find the next best thing that you know you can sell easily and at least get most of your money back. I mean, if you pick a popular gun you probably won't even lose much at all, maybe the sales tax you paid or better yet, you might even be able to find a trade for the SR22 you wanted.

Then, I'd write a nice letter directly to the owner, not some punk kid that just works there, informing him of the following:

You will never again step foot in his store, nor will any friends/family/etc
You have outed the store on Calguns.net (and provide him a link) informing the shooting sports community that his store cannot fulfill orders placed even MONTHS after taking your money, yet won't issue a refund.
You have filed a complaint against his store with the BBB (And Yelp etc. too if you so please)

Also, don't forget to make a proper outing thread.. one that will get a lot of hits
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  #49  
Old 05-24-2013, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboChrisB View Post
No, if he wins in court he then gets to start the PROCESS of ATTEMPTING to get his money back.
In the case of a business, it is not attempting, it is just deciding how to do it. Inventory is fair game and can be sold at a Sheriff's auction. There are many fun things to do if they don't pay, like get someone to pay with a check to get their account information and then go after the money in the account.
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  #50  
Old 05-24-2013, 11:47 AM
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All I want is my money or my gun. If they didn't have a problem giving me my money back I would wait longer. It's just the fact they have this over my head and I have no choice. I have already filed with the BBB and e-mailed the local news, wrote a review on yelp and other social media sites. I just wonder if they are on credit hold with their suppliers or are having money problems and are getting ready to close
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  #51  
Old 05-24-2013, 11:58 AM
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If you want your money, as you can not force them to produce a firearm, go to small claims court and do something to get your money back. Complaining will not get your money and could cause you more problems.

Firearms can be hard to come by right now.
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  #52  
Old 05-24-2013, 12:13 PM
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Guns of Distinction, Palm Desert? I have seen them list a M&P sport for $1200. I have gone in there to look at guns but I cant afford to pay their prices.
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Last edited by MigNoche; 05-24-2013 at 12:17 PM..
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  #53  
Old 05-24-2013, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MigNoche View Post
Since he refuses to name the shop I call BS on his story. Why in the world would you NOT want to name this shop? If your not worried about this happening to others....why should we care that it happened to you???
yeah, just name the shop!!
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  #54  
Old 05-24-2013, 12:23 PM
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I did name the shop a couple posts ago. "GUNS of DISTINCTION"
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  #55  
Old 05-24-2013, 12:27 PM
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Owner probably doesn't have the cash for a refund.
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  #56  
Old 05-24-2013, 12:28 PM
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Your obviously not much of a threat to them if they just brush off your requests.....its time to turn it up a few notches & let them know you are not playing around & want your $$ ASAP. I would be calling them at least once a day & nagging them.
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  #57  
Old 05-24-2013, 12:29 PM
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Guns of Distinction

(760) 340-4866
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  #58  
Old 06-11-2013, 8:05 AM
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Update,
Got another text of my gun at another gun shop about 3 miles from guns of distinction. This is the 3rd one that I know of that they have in since I ordered my gun back in January. I bought it! When it is out of jail I am going to Guns of Distinction and ask about my gun. When they give me their BS I will show them what I bought 3 miles away from them. I have already contacted the BBB, posted on yelp reviews, facebook, here, and also have the local news looking into it. I guess I will be going to small claims. Don't trust these guys!

Last edited by p1m; 06-11-2013 at 8:12 AM.. Reason: repeated some stuff
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  #59  
Old 06-11-2013, 10:42 AM
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Good luck p1m!
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  #60  
Old 06-11-2013, 12:47 PM
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Don't bother going back. Do not bring that pistol to the shop with you.

First, send a registered letter demanding your money back. If you know the owner, send it to them. Make sure it's registered at the post office with return receipt, so you know that they got it.

In the letter, you will need to demand your money back by a specific date. Make it reasonable, like 30-days. Tell them that if you do not return the money, you will use all remedies. They may "miraculously" find your pistol. If so buy it, and sell it here on CGF. That's the easiest way out.

If not, you will need to open a case in small claims, and serve them. Local sheriff can handle that for you. It has to be an uninterested third party. You may need to find the agent of service. That may be a little trickier to find out, but that's the person designated by the corporation (assuming that there is one) that is responsible for receiving all legal communications.

Go to small claims, bring witnesses, and get your judgement. Keep track of all yours costs and interest, as you will be able to claim that too.

Hopefully, they'll comply and pay up.

I am not a lawyer, don't play one on TV, and you should seek counsel if you need real help. But small claims isn't that hard to handle. Good luck.
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  #61  
Old 06-11-2013, 1:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by North86 View Post
Don't bother going back. Do not bring that pistol to the shop with you.

First, send a registered letter demanding your money back. If you know the owner, send it to them. Make sure it's registered at the post office with return receipt, so you know that they got it.

In the letter, you will need to demand your money back by a specific date. Make it reasonable, like 30-days. Tell them that if you do not return the money, you will use all remedies. They may "miraculously" find your pistol. If so buy it, and sell it here on CGF. That's the easiest way out.

If not, you will need to open a case in small claims, and serve them. Local sheriff can handle that for you. It has to be an uninterested third party. You may need to find the agent of service. That may be a little trickier to find out, but that's the person designated by the corporation (assuming that there is one) that is responsible for receiving all legal communications.

Go to small claims, bring witnesses, and get your judgement. Keep track of all yours costs and interest, as you will be able to claim that too.

Hopefully, they'll comply and pay up.

I am not a lawyer, don't play one on TV, and you should seek counsel if you need real help. But small claims isn't that hard to handle. Good luck.
Not trickier at all, here is a link http://kepler.sos.ca.gov/
If they are Corp, LLC or llp their service person is listed.
If they are none of these just serving the owner is sufficient.
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  #62  
Old 06-11-2013, 1:36 PM
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You can serve any adult at their "usual place of business"

I know this from personal experience.

Last edited by tonyxcom; 06-11-2013 at 1:40 PM..
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  #63  
Old 06-11-2013, 2:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyxcom View Post
You can serve any adult at their "usual place of business"

I know this from personal experience.
If the defendant is a Corp, then serving any adult even at their usual place of business will not be considered good service.
One must serve the designated agent for service of process.

416.10. A summons may be served on a corporation by delivering a
copy of the summons and the complaint by any of the following
methods:
(a) To the person designated as agent for service of process as
provided by any provision in Section 202, 1502, 2105, or 2107 of the
Corporations Code (or Sections 3301 to 3303, inclusive, or Sections
6500 to 6504, inclusive, of the Corporations Code, as in effect on
December 31, 1976, with respect to corporations to which they remain
applicable).
(b) To the president, chief executive officer, or other head of
the corporation, a vice president, a secretary or assistant
secretary, a treasurer or assistant treasurer, a controller or chief
financial officer, a general manager, or a person authorized by the
corporation to receive service of process.
(c) If the corporation is a bank, to a cashier or assistant
cashier or to a person specified in subdivision (a) or (b).
(d) If authorized by any provision in Section 1701, 1702, 2110, or
2111 of the Corporations Code (or Sections 3301 to 3303, inclusive,
or Sections 6500 to 6504, inclusive, of the Corporations Code, as in
effect on December 31, 1976, with respect to corporations to which
they remain applicable), as provided by that provision.






OP,
The named LGS is a Corp, the Agent for process of service is Mark Wasserkrug at 72839 Pitahaya Street, palm desert, ca

Last edited by KIMBER8400; 06-11-2013 at 2:36 PM.. Reason: ca ccp
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  #64  
Old 06-11-2013, 2:42 PM
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http://www.sos.ca.gov/business/be/se...of-process.htm

Quote:
Corporations, limited liability companies and limited partnerships are required by statute to designate an agent for service of process.

The California Business Search contains abstracts of certain information relating to corporations, limited liability companies and limited partnerships based on the most current filings that are of record in this office, including the name and address of the agent for service of process, if any.

However, serving the designated agent is not the only method of serving a particular business entity with process. The Code of Civil Procedure and Corporations Code provide multiple methods for direct service and for substituted service of process. Please refer to the following code sections for further information:
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/di...=415.10-415.95

Quote:
415.10. A summons may be served by personal delivery of a copy of
the summons and of the complaint to the person to be served. Service
of a summons in this manner is deemed complete at the time of such
delivery.
The date upon which personal delivery is made shall be entered on
or affixed to the face of the copy of the summons at the time of its
delivery. However, service of a summons without such date shall be
valid and effective.



415.20. (a) In lieu of personal delivery of a copy of the summons
and complaint to the person to be served as specified in Section
416.10, 416.20, 416.30, 416.40, or 416.50, a summons may be served by
leaving a copy of the summons and complaint during usual office
hours in his or her office
or, if no physical address is known, at
his or her usual mailing address, other than a United States Postal
Service post office box, with the person who is apparently in charge
thereof, and by thereafter mailing a copy of the summons and
complaint by first-class mail, postage prepaid to the person to be
served at the place where a copy of the summons and complaint were
left. When service is effected by leaving a copy of the summons and
complaint at a mailing address, it shall be left with a person at
least 18 years of age, who shall be informed of the contents thereof.
Service of a summons in this manner is deemed complete on the 10th
day after the mailing.
(b) If a copy of the summons and complaint cannot with reasonable
diligence be personally delivered to the person to be served, as
specified in Section 416.60, 416.70, 416.80, or 416.90, a summons may
be served by leaving a copy of the summons and complaint at the
person's dwelling house, usual place of abode, usual place of
business
, or usual mailing address other than a United States Postal
Service post office box, in the presence of a competent member of the
household or a person apparently in charge of his or her office,
place of business, or usual mailing address other than a United
States Postal Service post office box, at least 18 years of age, who
shall be informed of the contents thereof, and by thereafter mailing
a copy of the summons and of the complaint by first-class mail,
postage prepaid to the person to be served at the place where a copy
of the summons and complaint were left. Service of a summons in this
manner is deemed complete on the 10th day after the mailing.
So if you are unable to serve Mark Wasserkrug then serving someone at the business will suffice. Again, I speak from personal experience.

Last edited by tonyxcom; 06-11-2013 at 2:48 PM..
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  #65  
Old 06-11-2013, 3:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyxcom View Post
http://www.sos.ca.gov/business/be/se...of-process.htm



http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/di...=415.10-415.95



So if you are unable to serve Mark Wasserkrug then serving someone at the business will suffice. Again, I speak from personal experience.
This refers to personal or substitute service. So if the designated agent for process of service is not available at the provided address, then the person answering for the agent can be sub-served.

So since the place of business and the address of the agent are not the same OP should serve at the patahaya address and not the store address.

Last edited by KIMBER8400; 06-11-2013 at 3:18 PM.. Reason: Service
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  #66  
Old 06-11-2013, 7:16 PM
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Awesome community here! Well done Kimber and Tony.

OP - draft your letter. Be specific with dates, times and your demand. Send it. Don't bother negotiating anymore. If the guy was a stand-up guy, he would have made you whole by now.
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  #67  
Old 06-12-2013, 8:16 AM
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Great info!

Thanks everyone!
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  #68  
Old 06-12-2013, 6:09 PM
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I have more extraneous BS sitting around here....Now you can tell Rick he's famous.

Attached Images
File Type: jpg guns of distinction.jpg (24.3 KB, 375 views)

Last edited by Dvrjon; 06-12-2013 at 6:37 PM..
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  #69  
Old 06-12-2013, 6:53 PM
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Leave a Yelp review...

http://www.yelp.com/biz/guns-of-dist...nc-palm-desert
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  #70  
Old 06-12-2013, 7:57 PM
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Attorney here. You have a breach of contract cause of action. My suggestion is to write a detailed letter to the owner. In the letter, reflect all discussions from the time you began the transaction to current. Describe each discussion in detail, providing the date, time and who the conversation was with, and if the conversation was in person or over the phone. You will present this letter to the small claims judge, as evidence that you made a demand for the return of your funds. It will also serve to fully lay out your case in a persuasive and organized manner to the judge. Many people when they appear in court, forget to mention very important facts and details regarding their case which causes an unfavorable result. This letter will prevent that from happening.

Make allegations in the letter by stating that the owner had a reasonable time to perform and he has failed to perform. State that you have been patient and your patience is exhausted. Allege that he is attempting to extort from you, the deposit you gave him, limiting you to only one option, which is to select other items in the store that you do not desire to purchase, and that this is an unacceptable business practice. State that you were successful in purchasing the same item at another business near his place of business. Allege that his wrongful keeping of your funds constitutes an intentional tort, Conversion, and if he continues to withhold your funds he is opening himself to punitive damages if he continues in the action of keeping your funds. Demand a full refund within 10 days or you will file a lawsuit.
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  #71  
Old 06-12-2013, 8:03 PM
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People's Court!
Judge Milian wouldn't go for that crap.
You paid for "A" you should not have to settle for "B"
If YOU backed out of the deal, then I would say you don't get your money back
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  #72  
Old 06-13-2013, 6:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyNorCal View Post
Already did!
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Old 06-13-2013, 6:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyD View Post
Attorney here. You have a breach of contract cause of action. My suggestion is to write a detailed letter to the owner. In the letter, reflect all discussions from the time you began the transaction to current. Describe each discussion in detail, providing the date, time and who the conversation was with, and if the conversation was in person or over the phone. You will present this letter to the small claims judge, as evidence that you made a demand for the return of your funds. It will also serve to fully lay out your case in a persuasive and organized manner to the judge. Many people when they appear in court, forget to mention very important facts and details regarding their case which causes an unfavorable result. This letter will prevent that from happening.

Make allegations in the letter by stating that the owner had a reasonable time to perform and he has failed to perform. State that you have been patient and your patience is exhausted. Allege that he is attempting to extort from you, the deposit you gave him, limiting you to only one option, which is to select other items in the store that you do not desire to purchase, and that this is an unacceptable business practice. State that you were successful in purchasing the same item at another business near his place of business. Allege that his wrongful keeping of your funds constitutes an intentional tort, Conversion, and if he continues to withhold your funds he is opening himself to punitive damages if he continues in the action of keeping your funds. Demand a full refund within 10 days or you will file a lawsuit.
Thanks RandyD!
I am drafting the letter and just hope this place doesn't close before I get my money or gun.
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Old 06-13-2013, 7:03 AM
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Originally Posted by RandyD View Post
Attorney here. You have a breach of contract cause of action. My suggestion is to write a detailed letter to the owner. In the letter, reflect all discussions from the time you began the transaction to current. Describe each discussion in detail, providing the date, time and who the conversation was with, and if the conversation was in person or over the phone. You will present this letter to the small claims judge, as evidence that you made a demand for the return of your funds. It will also serve to fully lay out your case in a persuasive and organized manner to the judge. Many people when they appear in court, forget to mention very important facts and details regarding their case which causes an unfavorable result. This letter will prevent that from happening.

Make allegations in the letter by stating that the owner had a reasonable time to perform and he has failed to perform. State that you have been patient and your patience is exhausted. Allege that he is attempting to extort from you, the deposit you gave him, limiting you to only one option, which is to select other items in the store that you do not desire to purchase, and that this is an unacceptable business practice. State that you were successful in purchasing the same item at another business near his place of business. Allege that his wrongful keeping of your funds constitutes an intentional tort, Conversion, and if he continues to withhold your funds he is opening himself to punitive damages if he continues in the action of keeping your funds. Demand a full refund within 10 days or you will file a lawsuit.
Free legal advice. Gotta love CalGuns!

OP, good luck! I hope you get your money back. Please continue to keep us posted on this one. Just so in case this happens to anyone else, we'll know what action to take.
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  #75  
Old 06-13-2013, 8:55 AM
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Originally Posted by trigger945 View Post
Free legal advice. Gotta love CalGuns!
I have learned a lot from the posts on Calguns, and I am grateful. I have read posts by electricians, plumbers, construction workers (and many other tradesmen), that have added to my knowledge. I am just trying to contribute. In my opinion, the advice I gave has 5% legal advice and 95% practical advice on how to handle a problem.
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  #76  
Old 06-13-2013, 10:19 AM
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MECHAGODZILLA MECHAGODZILLA is offline
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Deposit means your coming back to pay in full when the gun arrives and that you are committed

Paid in full means that they are committed to getting your gun, and that it falls under their responsibility to fullfill the order

You definitely have a case

The bad thing is why the heck did you buy another gun when your still in this predicament, I understand that there are other guns close by to you that are showing up at other stores, but does that really solve anything on your problem?
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Old 06-13-2013, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by MECHAGODZILLA View Post
Deposit means your coming back to pay in full when the gun arrives and that you are committed

Paid in full means that they are committed to getting your gun, and that it falls under their responsibility to fullfill the order

You definitely have a case

The bad thing is why the heck did you buy another gun when your still in this predicament, I understand that there are other guns close by to you that are showing up at other stores, but does that really solve anything on your problem?
I see Yes for the fact that I got the gun I have been waiting for and it gets out of jail on the same day it makes 5 months I have waited at the other store so that problem is solved. When they tell me again that I'm full of BS that other stores can get it I have something to show them.

I will either get what I ordered, my money back, or face the fact that I might have to use the money I gave them for instore credit and take whatever I can because I just have a feeling they won't be around soon now seeing that a huge new gun store/range opened in the area.
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Old 06-13-2013, 11:07 AM
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man I would sue them for your waisted time off from work,money,gas,and their kitchen sink, good luck to you
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Old 06-13-2013, 11:29 AM
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I would have demanded at lest 30 percent off on top of that store credit. Bought ammo,mags, optics,etc. Afterwards I would never come back and share my negative experience.
Glad you are not buying into whatever they are telling you and fighting for your hard earn cash.
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Old 06-13-2013, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Booboi View Post
I would have demanded at lest 30 percent off on top of that store credit. Bought ammo,mags, optics,etc. Afterwards I would never come back and share my negative experience.
Glad you are not buying into whatever they are telling you and fighting for your hard earn cash.
If they had any of the aboved mention it would be much easier. They don't have anything!
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