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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 05-20-2013, 10:30 PM
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Default Troy Alpha rail off center

Finished installing a new Troy Alpha Rail VTAC tonight. Went to mount my optic and saw the top rail misaligned by at least 1/16th of an inch. Super irritated right now. Anyone else run into this when they mounted their Troy free float rails?

IMG_0219.jpg

IMG_0223.jpg

Last edited by Wombats Are Dangerous; 05-20-2013 at 10:33 PM..
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  #2  
Old 05-20-2013, 10:34 PM
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Wow. I don't have any experience with Troy product, but that would bother me too.
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Old 05-20-2013, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Donk310 View Post
Wow. I don't have any experience with Troy product, but that would bother me too.
I'm going to sleep on it and retorque the screws tomorrow to see if it helps. For $210, I expected better fit than this.
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  #4  
Old 05-20-2013, 10:55 PM
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Looks like one (or two) of the left side brackets are not properly indexing around the barrel nut. Try loosening all the screws, re-index all the inside brackets, then tighten each a screw a couple turns at a time little by little
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Old 05-20-2013, 11:01 PM
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I'd check two things.
1. Make sure you torqued your barrel nut correctly. Probably not the issue since there's some play there anyway.
2. When you re-tighten the hand guard hold it in place with one hand and start tightening the bottom center screw and stop when it's a bit more than snug. Then apply similar force to the two other screws. Do it all over again starting at the bottom until they are all tight. You should see when and if the alignment starts to shift and can correct for it as you tighten the screws. If that doesn't fix it compare your handguard with someone else to see if there's a problem and then take it from there.

The other way you can get a good fit is if you have something like a magpul RSA. Attach it to the upper receiver and handguard where they meet. It should hold the alignment in place while you tighten the screws.

Good luck.
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Old 05-20-2013, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan-0- View Post
I'd check two things.
1. Make sure you torqued your barrel nut correctly. Probably not the issue since there's some play there anyway.
2. When you re-tighten the hand guard hold it in place with one hand and start tightening the bottom center screw and stop when it's a bit more than snug. Then apply similar force to the two other screws. Do it all over again starting at the bottom until they are all tight. You should see when and if the alignment starts to shift and can correct for it as you tighten the screws. If that doesn't fix it compare your handguard with someone else to see if there's a problem and then take it from there.

The other way you can get a good fit is if you have something like a magpul RSA. Attach it to the upper receiver and handguard where they meet. It should hold the alignment in place while you tighten the screws.

Good luck.

Son of a gun! So the alignment tab on the left side of the Alpha rail isn't always flush with the receiver???

No wonder...
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  #7  
Old 05-21-2013, 7:50 AM
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Loosen the screws a little on the Alpha rail. Place a scope ring on top of the receiver so it goes over both the upper and the rail, snug it down. This should keep things aligned while you tighten down the three screws on the rail. I also recommend blue loc tite, or if your planning on running the gun hard in a class or such red loc tite.
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Old 05-21-2013, 8:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan-0- View Post
The other way you can get a good fit is if you have something like a magpul RSA. Attach it to the upper receiver and handguard where they meet. It should hold the alignment in place while you tighten the screws.
Quote:
Originally Posted by G21Shooter View Post
Loosen the screws a little on the Alpha rail. Place a scope ring on top of the receiver so it goes over both the upper and the rail, snug it down. This should keep things aligned while you tighten down the three screws on the rail. I also recommend blue loc tite, or if your planning on running the gun hard in a class or such red loc tite.

Thanks, guys! Great advice! I'm going to mount a VTAC flashlight holder to keep the rails and then retorque each screw equally. I guess it's a lot like tuning a drum head where you tune one lug a half turn at a time so one side doesn't pull too hard.
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Old 05-21-2013, 8:51 AM
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This is really odd. I bought my brother a Vtac for his birthday. I watched him initially have trouble getting it on cause he thought he'd save himself money by milling down his FSP instead of just buying a low pro gas block. Anyways, once he got it situated the rail literally indexed itself. Torqued the screws down and off he went
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  #10  
Old 05-21-2013, 9:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wombats Are Dangerous View Post
I'm going to sleep on it and retorque the screws tomorrow to see if it helps.
Last I checked, the rails do not install themselves.
You have to align the rails and hold them aligned while tightening the clamp screws.
If you over-rotate the rail while tightening the clamp screws, then the rail will STILL be over rotated after you are done tightening the clamp screws...

If you align the rail while tightening the screws, guess what...








































The rail will STILL be aligned when you are done tightening the screws!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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  #11  
Old 05-21-2013, 9:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3thodBombZ View Post
This is really odd. I bought my brother a Vtac for his birthday. I watched him initially have trouble getting it on cause he thought he'd save himself money by milling down his FSP instead of just buying a low pro gas block. Anyways, once he got it situated the rail literally indexed itself. Torqued the screws down and off he went
Now I'm wondering if I just received a defect???

I'll try remounting tonight and see if I can live with it. The alignment tab is going to sit off the receiver for sure. I currently have the tab mounted flush with the upper receiver, but if I have to rotate the rail 1/16th" counterclockwise to get the top rails to line up, that tab is definitely going to be sitting 1/16th" away from the upper.

I'll see if I can live with that. It's just aesthetic really.
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  #12  
Old 05-21-2013, 9:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wombats Are Dangerous View Post
Now I'm wondering if I just received a defect???

I'll try remounting tonight and see if I can live with it. The alignment tab is going to sit off the receiver for sure. I currently have the tab mounted flush with the upper receiver, but if I have to rotate the rail 1/16th" counterclockwise to get the top rails to line up, that tab is definitely going to be sitting 1/16th" away from the upper.
Reciever outside dimensions vary.
There is no way for the tab to touch on every receiver AND the rails to be in alignment.
This is why the Giessele rails have setscrews for their anti-rotation feature.
You align the rail, then snug down the set screws.
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  #13  
Old 05-21-2013, 7:28 PM
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Success! Thanks for all the tips, guys! This was more of a misunderstanding of how the product should fit than anything else.
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Old 05-21-2013, 7:39 PM
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these could help

http://www.spikestactical.com/new/z/...kit-p-605.html
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Old 05-21-2013, 8:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wombats Are Dangerous View Post
Success! Thanks for all the tips, guys! This was more of a misunderstanding of how the product should fit than anything else.
Yes, that.

I (along with the AR15barrels guy that kept trying to help you) was wondering why you were all pissed at Troy.

At any rate, I am glad you got it figured out. It really is pretty standard for handguard installs to have to hold them where they belong - no matter the manufacturer.
The tip about clamping the mount on the rail is a good one, and I have done it before with good results.
That said, it is a blind install, and I would rather just hold it with a good grip so I can see the alignment instead of hope it is aligned with the mount clamped down.

Shoot'em straight!
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Old 05-21-2013, 8:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SloChicken View Post
Yes, that.

I (along with the AR15barrels guy that kept trying to help you) was wondering why you were all pissed at Troy.

At any rate, I am glad you got it figured out. It really is pretty standard for handguard installs to have to hold them where they belong - no matter the manufacturer.
The tip about clamping the mount on the rail is a good one, and I have done it before with good results.
That said, it is a blind install, and I would rather just hold it with a good grip so I can see the alignment instead of hope it is aligned with the mount clamped down.

Shoot'em straight!

I really do appreciate all of the advice. I wasn't necessarily pissed at Troy. It's my first free float install. Have always used standard handguards that fit in between the A2 sight and the delta ring.

After two hours of work to carefully dremel off the delta ring, slam out the front sight taper pins and all kinds of swearing, I just wanted the damn thing to work like I expected.

For $215, I guess I just expected a perfect fit. Buuuut as most of you guys have pointed out, there are tolerances built into certain AR parts to allow them a wider range of fittings.

The reality didn't fit what I was expecting, thus frustration. It's all good now! Not my first Troy product and definitely won't be my last. Love their stuff!
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Old 05-21-2013, 10:49 PM
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keep trying...I have the same rail...you MUST tighten the screws down in small increments little by little...if you tighten on screw more then the other it will shift to on side like that...take your time on it....

edit...just read its fixed/resolved....
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Old 05-21-2013, 11:02 PM
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Did you actually see if it would line up before you tighten it down? I have had issues with delta rings being out of spec so it prevented the rail from aligning correctly or created a gap between the rail and the upper receiver. If it aligns correctly without tightening it down then its probably just your method of installation. keep trying and tighten screws in sequence. they dont always line up perfect.
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Old 05-22-2013, 7:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wombats Are Dangerous View Post
Thanks, guys! Great advice! I'm going to mount a VTAC cheap led flashlights holder to keep the rails and then retorque each screw equally. I guess it's a lot like tuning a drum head where you tune one lug a half turn at a time so one side doesn't pull too hard.
It was very nice advice indeed. I never thought like this so would mount a VTAC flashlight holder and try to solve it out. Thanks again

Last edited by FrankStanley; 05-23-2013 at 1:35 AM..
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Old 05-22-2013, 7:49 AM
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A great way to get good handguard alignment is to tighten the handguard up until it has just a little play. Then turn the upper upside down and clamp it onto a flat glass surface (I use a glass table top) with the clamp only on the upper receiver. The flat glass surface will match the rail orientation of the handguard to that of the upper and ensure that the rail is also perfectly aligned from the front of the rail to the back of the receiver. Clamp down the rail to make sure it doesn't move when you tighten it up and your good to go.

I've used this method several times with much better results than the eyeball method.

If you don't have a glass surface you can use, you might also consider investing in a Wheeler Reticle Leveling System as the small levels can also be used to square up a rail on an upper that's clamped in a vice.
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Old 05-22-2013, 8:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildhawk66 View Post
A great way to get good handguard alignment is to tighten the handguard up until it has just a little play. Then turn the upper upside down and clamp it onto a flat glass surface (I use a glass table top) with the clamp only on the upper receiver. The flat glass surface will match the rail orientation of the handguard to that of the upper and ensure that the rail is also perfectly aligned from the front of the rail to the back of the receiver. Clamp down the rail to make sure it doesn't move when you tighten it up and your good to go.

I've used this method several times with much better results than the eyeball method.

If you don't have a glass surface you can use, you might also consider investing in a Wheeler Reticle Leveling System as the small levels can also be used to square up a rail on an upper that's clamped in a vice.

Another great tip! I used the rail device method that Dan-O recommended and it worked great. You really can use any rail attachment that takes up at least four rail slots. He recommended the Magpul RSA, but I ended up using a VTAC flashlight mount. Any mountable foregrip will work too.

I just mounted the VTAC flashlight mount straddling the upper receiver rail and the Alpha rail and it held it in place in perfect alignment. Then I went around and gave each screw a half turn at a time until everything was tight.

Removed the flashlight mount and it was perfect!

One of those "OH DUH!" moments when you try something for the first time.
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Old 05-22-2013, 9:39 AM
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You should change the name of the thread , since there were no issues with Troy's product.
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