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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 05-20-2013, 7:13 PM
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Default AR Pistol

Guys I'm about to finish up my 80 lower. I wasn't sure what I was going to put on it. So after thinking about it all day at work I said why not a pistol. Granted for me I don't really see a purpose on it other than just fun. Luckily fun is enough of a reason for me. Also it's as close to an SBR than we'll ever get. well some of us.

I referenced this link. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=115364

This is the route I'm going. Not sure of the barrel size. I know I want under 14.5 including the flash suppressor. Anyone know what size these barrels might be. This is exactly what I'm after.


I know the BB is a must. Stock is a no go. 10 round mags only. How about magpul vert grips? Anything else I might be missing on the legal side? Some posted on the forums you could even put it on your CCW if you register it. Is this true.

I'm also going the pistol route since it's hard to get the lowers, plus in case anyone in Sac ever changes their mind. Thanks for the advice.

Last edited by fonzy; 05-20-2013 at 7:17 PM..
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Old 05-20-2013, 7:22 PM
Sam .223 Sam .223 is offline
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i have a 10.5 on the build i just finished, i'm still waiting on the PWS CQB compensator

Last edited by Sam .223; 10-05-2014 at 11:28 AM..
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  #3  
Old 05-20-2013, 7:34 PM
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There is this stupid law about building a 80% lower into a pistol. You first have to assemble it as a single shot and you have to use a bob sled wile you're building the lower. Then once the lower is complete you must attach the upper receiver to the lower with the stupid bob sled still in it. After that you may remove the bob sled and use a regular 10rd mag or 10/20 or 10/30 whatever tickles your pickle.

A lot of folks recommended taking a picture of your AR pistol with the bob sled in it and carrying it with you to the range along with the bob sled. I personally think all this is complete nonsense and I think its a waste of money but thats the stupid rule.
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Old 05-20-2013, 7:36 PM
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Vertical grips or secondary pistol grips are a no go.
That would constitute an illegal AW. And that's not just CA, that's fed.
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Old 05-20-2013, 7:37 PM
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Oh and by the way those buffer tube covers have to be "Permanently attached to the buffer tube" I recommend just getting a pistol buffer tube like Phase 5.
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  #6  
Old 05-20-2013, 7:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba951 View Post
Vertical grips or secondary pistol grips are a no go.
That would constitute an illegal AW. And that's not just CA, that's fed.
You can use MagPul AFG 1 or 2 on any pistol build.
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  #7  
Old 05-20-2013, 7:39 PM
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Looks like 10.5 or 11.5 barrel length. AFG's are supposedly ok but some are uncomfortable with using those on a pistol.

BTW, who makes the AFG on the first pistol?
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Old 05-20-2013, 7:45 PM
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If your OAL is greater than 26" you can have a vert fore grip (if that's what you were asking). However I might be incorrect but I believe if you do that you may not be able to register your now "other weapon" on you're ccw.
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Old 05-20-2013, 7:48 PM
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Most likely 11.5" barrels with Rainier Arms Evolution 11" Rail (9 holes down the side). I have an 11.5" BCM barrel with the regular Samson 11" Evolution rail and it looks about the same. Rail ends right past where the threads begin on the barrel. I love the look of it, plus being able to extend my grip as far out or as close to the mag well as I want.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bravodigger View Post
if you do that you may not be able to register your now "other weapon" on you're ccw.
Is anyone really trying to carry a 26" AR pistol concealed? lol



EDIT: Actually, looking at the pics again, probably 10.5" barrels with 11" rails.
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Last edited by edrex; 05-20-2013 at 7:51 PM..
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  #10  
Old 05-20-2013, 7:59 PM
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Wasn't there a big ballistics performance increase going with a 11.5" barrel than a 10.5". OP, do a search for "10.5 vs 11.5 barrel" to help you decide.
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  #11  
Old 05-20-2013, 8:13 PM
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Thanks Sam for the pic. Looks like I'll be going for 10.5. Thanks for the advice to keep me out of pris.
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  #12  
Old 05-20-2013, 8:21 PM
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DigitalPicaso, care to explain why it is buffer tube covers have to be permanently attached?
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  #13  
Old 05-20-2013, 8:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrPlink View Post
DigitalPicaso, care to explain why it is buffer tube covers have to be permanently attached?
In the OPs picture, the tubes are standard carbine tubes
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Old 05-20-2013, 8:38 PM
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Not really using it as a ccw. But in a way it would be like being able to carry a rifle in the car sort of.
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Old 05-20-2013, 8:40 PM
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Wait...CAN ar pistols be added to a LTC? Not that I would try to actually carry it concealed but it would be nice to be able to toss it in a bag then in my car or truck without having to worry about locked containers and what not on the way to the range
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  #16  
Old 05-20-2013, 8:44 PM
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Munkeeboi, didnt catch that I'm on my phone so the pix are small.
Using a standard carbine tube is fine, just modify the tube itself so it can't take a stock. Or as mentioned, get a ready made pistol tube.
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  #17  
Old 05-20-2013, 8:48 PM
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Here is mine with a 7" barrel and a 7" spikes bar rail with a pig sticking out at the end. I have since removed the AFG, I really didn't like the feel with it on. I really like the 7" barrel. When I added the pig that brings it to 8 1/2" long which for a "fun gun" is plenty long

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  #18  
Old 05-20-2013, 9:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrPlink View Post
DigitalPicaso, care to explain why it is buffer tube covers have to be permanently attached?
From what I was told by an FFL that if its not pinned its considered an SBR because you can easly remove that cap by hand and place a stock on it. I personally would not build an AR pistol with a regular AR buffer tube, you're asking for trouble. I mean why even take that risk?

Last edited by TheDigitalPicasso; 05-20-2013 at 9:13 PM..
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  #19  
Old 05-20-2013, 9:29 PM
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What risk? If the tube is modified so it can't accept a stock there is no issue. No more legal or illegal than a dedicated pistol tube. If drawing unwanted attention is a concern then I'm not sure I would go with an AR pistol, ESP in this state.

But..
It's not hard to modify nor is this a new idea.
I do something kinda related, I use A1 buffer tubes.
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  #20  
Old 05-20-2013, 9:37 PM
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I liked the ol' cane tip on a pistol tube myself.

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  #21  
Old 05-21-2013, 6:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam .223 View Post
i have a 10.5 on the build i just finished, i'm still waiting on the PWS CQB compensator
Sam, nice pistol! What rail are you running here?
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  #22  
Old 05-21-2013, 6:36 AM
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  #23  
Old 05-21-2013, 7:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigb0886 View Post
Wait...CAN ar pistols be added to a LTC? Not that I would try to actually carry it concealed but it would be nice to be able to toss it in a bag then in my car or truck without having to worry about locked containers and what not on the way to the range
Yes, an AR type pistol can be on a CA LTC permit.

The CA LTC permit is for a "handgun".
CA laws define a "handgun" as a "pistol, revolver, or firearm capable of being concealed upon the person". [PC 16640(a)]
CA laws further defines a "pistol, revolver, or firearm capable of being concealed upon the person" as a firearm with a less than 16" barrel. [PC 16530(a)]

That said...
Due to the "may issue" issuance system, it is up to the discreation of your issuing agency on if they will approve or deny an AR pistol being listed on your CA LTC permit.

Wes currently has an AR pistol on his CA LTC permit. Send him a PM to find out more about it.

Wes' AR Pistol that is listed on his CA LTC permit



Penal Code 16640
(a) As used in this part, "handgun" means any pistol, revolver, or firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.

Penal Code 16530
(a) As used in this part, the terms "firearm capable of being concealed upon the person," "pistol," and "revolver" apply to and include any device designed to be used as a weapon, from which is expelled a projectile by the force of any explosion, or other form of combustion, and that has a barrel less than 16 inches in length. These terms also include any device that has a barrel 16 inches or more in length which is designed to be interchanged with a barrel
less than 16 inches in length.
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Last edited by Quiet; 05-21-2013 at 7:10 AM..
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  #24  
Old 05-21-2013, 7:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
Wes currently has an AR pistol on his CA LTC permit. Send him a PM to find out more about it.
I guess my question is "would that be allowed if he built the pistol out of an 80% lower?"

Being able to carry an off duty weapon would be kinda of fun to go qualify with it "just cause I could."

I'm working on an 80% build right now myself that I might just build my pistol on and save myself the hassle of buying one already done. I have sent 2 emails to Phase 5 Tactical to inquire about a couple of things before I order one and have not received any replies in the week since.

C2
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  #25  
Old 05-21-2013, 7:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TStewartFan View Post
I guess my question is "would that be allowed if he built the pistol out of an 80% lower?"
Again, it depends on the issuing agency.

Some issuing agencies require the handgun listed on your CA LTC permit to be registered to you.

Currently, homebuilt firearms are not required to be registered.
But, they can be registered on a volunteer basis.

So, you would need to contact your issuing agency and inquire the following:
1. Do they allow unregistered handguns to be listed listed?
2. Can an AR pistol be listed?
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Last edited by Quiet; 05-21-2013 at 7:47 AM..
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  #26  
Old 05-21-2013, 11:40 AM
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Will SB47 or SB374 impact building AR pistols from 80% lowers?
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  #27  
Old 05-21-2013, 12:14 PM
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47 yes, unless you welded a magazine into the the receiver. 374 is for rifles.
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Old 05-21-2013, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrPlink View Post
47 yes, unless you welded a magazine into the the receiver. 374 is for rifles.
That is what I was afraid of.
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Old 05-21-2013, 1:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danomite556 View Post
Sam, nice pistol! What rail are you running here?
the rail is from MI its their ss series.
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Old 05-21-2013, 1:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triggs75 View Post
Here is mine with a 7" barrel and a 7" spikes bar rail with a pig sticking out at the end. I have since removed the AFG, I really didn't like the feel with it on. I really like the 7" barrel. When I added the pig that brings it to 8 1/2" long which for a "fun gun" is plenty long

What buffer tube is that? It could just be the pic but it looks like it has a paracord wrap job on it. Did you do that yourself or did it come that way
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Old 05-21-2013, 2:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrPlink View Post
47 yes, unless you welded a magazine into the the receiver. 374 is for rifles.
mistaPlink - could you please expand on why? thank you

i had been holding of on my 80 build, might kick it into higher gear.
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  #32  
Old 05-21-2013, 2:29 PM
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I'd really recommend you go to the 2A forum if you want the straight dope.

Super short version :
47 redefines fixed magazine as one that can not be removed period (ie maglocks and bullet buttons no longer meet the definition of fixed mags)
374 redefines assualt weapons as rifles that have magazines that can be detached through any means (by hand or tool)
either bill effectively kills about 99percent of the firearms discussed on this forum.
347 applies to semi auto rifles, rimfire included.
So even the innocent Ruger1022 would be illegal to purchase after this year.
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Old 05-21-2013, 2:30 PM
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^ PS. Last bill number should read "374" not "347"
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Old 05-21-2013, 2:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrPlink View Post
I'd really recommend you go to the 2A forum if you want the straight dope.

Super short version :
47 redefines fixed magazine as one that can not be removed period (ie maglocks and bullet buttons no longer meet the definition of fixed mags)

374 redefines assualt weapons as rifles that have magazines that can be detached through any means (by hand or tool)
either bill effectively kills about 99percent of the firearms discussed on this forum. 374 applies to semi auto rifles, rimfire included.
So even the innocent Ruger1022 would be illegal to purchase after this year.
Thank You for this info.
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Old 05-21-2013, 2:58 PM
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If you have the 10/22 before 01-01-2014, Will that be grandfather if that law pass?
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Old 05-21-2013, 3:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDigitalPicasso View Post
You can use MagPul AFG 1 or 2 on any pistol build.
I don't recall saying anything about a magpul afg.
I said "VERTICAL grip or forward PISTOL grip."
Esentially the same thing, but wanted to clarify by using two different common nomenclatures.
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Old 05-21-2013, 3:16 PM
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Is this Magpul XTM hand stop okay? Thanks.

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  #38  
Old 05-21-2013, 3:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bravodigger View Post
If your OAL is greater than 26" you can have a vert fore grip (if that's what you were asking). However I might be incorrect but I believe if you do that you may not be able to register your now "other weapon" on you're ccw.
Don't know about the CCW, but your OAL greater than 26" to have a vert grip is correct. One caveat is you can't count a muzzle device in the OAL.

Here's mine for example, 12" barrel and the RRA pistol tube brings it beyond 26" OAL even without the crazy brake (brake is cause it is in .50 Beowulf).

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  #39  
Old 05-21-2013, 3:32 PM
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  #40  
Old 05-21-2013, 3:39 PM
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Akoba, no grandfathering per se. As the bill is written no transfers or sales post 12,31,13 and any firearm that meets the new criteria of an AW must be sold or registered as an AW by July of next year. Remember, DROS is NOT registration.

Foregrips on pistols can only be used if you meet one of the following:

1) your firearm is taxed and registered with the FEDs as an AOW

2) you have an over all PERMANENT length of at least 26inches, which on the FED level makes your pistol a title 1 long gun "other" but still a pistol on the state level.

Fingerstops are totally fine regardless.
The Feds don't consider the Afg a pistol grip, and nobody knows what ca considers it, but being that AR pistols in Ca must have a maglock it does not matter either way so they are fine to use.
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