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  #1  
Old 05-10-2013, 3:24 PM
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Default smiith Wesson Poor Quality Control

I bought a bnib smith wesson 686 plus 3" online and had it shipped to my local ffl.

Barrel had small pitting outside and turn ring was deep. Also didnt seem clean.

I continued with the dros but im wondering if I did the right thing or should I have contacted the online retailer first about the issue. I was thinking maybe sending it back to smith wesson and have them fix all issues.
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Old 05-10-2013, 3:44 PM
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Since you already did the DROS, its yours. You can call and send it in for fixing, but I'm not sure how much they'll do for you. It's sad that the QC has gone down (my 2005 460 is not nearly as nice as my '78 29-2) but you have rising labor and material costs to deal with. It would cost $1500+ for them to build a gun with the same quality of yesteryear, and new smiths just won't sell for that much. If you're looking for perfection, send it to a gunsmith for customization. That's my plan for my 460 anyway.
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Old 05-10-2013, 3:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jakejake527 View Post
I bought a bnib smith wesson 686 plus 3" online and had it shipped to my local ffl.

Barrel had small pitting outside and turn ring was deep. Also didnt seem clean.

I continued with the dros but im wondering if I did the right thing or should I have contacted the online retailer first about the issue. I was thinking maybe sending it back to smith wesson and have them fix all issues.
Send it back, they will fix it for free and pay shipping both ways.
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Old 05-10-2013, 3:48 PM
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I just had a 625 BNIB that needed cylinder work because it wouldn't fit rounds in a couple of the holes. It also had some unfinished de-burring on the cylinder. Sent it in for warranty, paid shipping both ways and got it done MUCH faster than the rep on the phone told me to expect!

Send it in and get it repaired!!
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Old 05-10-2013, 4:07 PM
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That's really too bad, but seems all to common nowadays. The only Smith wheel gun I currently own is a 686-4 2.5 that I bought NIB in 1996, it's a great gun with a fantastic box stock trigger.
I want a 4" 586 but will not buy a new one waiting on the right used one to hit the market in my area, waiting patiently.
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  #6  
Old 05-10-2013, 4:22 PM
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U guys think theyll polish out the deep turn ring? Or just replace the cylinder?
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Old 05-10-2013, 4:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jakejake527 View Post
U guys think theyll polish out the deep turn ring? Or just replace the cylinder?
Replace the cylinder? Seriously? A turn ring is wear and tear. They will not do anything to it. Are you planning on shooting it? If so, it is going to get a turn ring. They'll pay shipping both ways, get a good laugh at you in the shop, maybe polish it, send it back, and you can put your own turn ring on after being without your gun for 2 weeks.

If you don't like a turn ring, don't buy a revolver.
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eh why bring logic into this, that makes too much sense... besides when you have bested a fool, you have accomplished nothing and he is a fool.
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Old 05-10-2013, 4:39 PM
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I wanted a brand new in box revolver. Not with a deep turn ri g like its been dry fired 10k times. Dont tell me its ok that I got a like used revolver cause im going to use it anyways.
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Old 05-10-2013, 4:44 PM
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It sounds like the dealer you bought it from is the one who hosed you. Are you sure he sold you a new revolver?
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  #10  
Old 05-10-2013, 4:47 PM
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Its from woodburyoutfitters.com


Was it a mistake on my part that I started the dros on the gun? Would I be able to send Iit back and just cancel dros?

Last edited by jakejake527; 05-10-2013 at 4:53 PM..
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  #11  
Old 05-10-2013, 4:47 PM
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What is the turn ring? Do you mean that mark that rings the cylinder where the stop bolt goes? Like around the point where those little dents are in the cylinder that lock it up? Or do you mean there is a ring from when they manufactured the cylinder like "turning on a lathe" ??

If the mark from the stop bolt, my brand new 686+ (4") also has that, I assumed it would just get more noticable as I shoot the gun (I've not shot it yet).

Last edited by Lead Waster; 05-10-2013 at 4:50 PM..
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  #12  
Old 05-10-2013, 5:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jakejake527 View Post
I wanted a brand new in box revolver. Not with a deep turn ri g like its been dry fired 10k times. Dont tell me its ok that I got a like used revolver cause im going to use it anyways.
A turn ring on a Smith stainless takes about 2 to 3 turns to be noticeable. Go try and find a new one without it. Sounds like your dealer hosed you, or you are expecting a little too much, or a combo of both.
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eh why bring logic into this, that makes too much sense... besides when you have bested a fool, you have accomplished nothing and he is a fool.
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Old 05-10-2013, 6:16 PM
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I bought a used gp 100 with about 500 rounds through it and its turn ring was MUCH less noticeable than my "BNIB" smith
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Old 05-10-2013, 6:38 PM
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I bought a new 686+ from Turners last year and when I went to pick it up I could have sworn they were selling me a used gun. It also had a turn ring that looked like it had been fired a lot, it was dirty, and the finish was pretty dull. I polished it up a bit and it looks a lot better now, I'm happy with it. My Ruger GP100 on the other hand is a work of art! Only con is that certain ammo is difficult to extract sometimes, maybe I need to polish the chambers.
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Old 05-10-2013, 6:46 PM
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mine had pitting on the barrel (outside)
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Old 05-10-2013, 7:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jakejake527 View Post
mine had pitting on the barrel (outside)
Can you provide pictures? I'm calling BS on this.
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eh why bring logic into this, that makes too much sense... besides when you have bested a fool, you have accomplished nothing and he is a fool.
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Old 05-10-2013, 7:26 PM
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I've sent a couple of my revos to S&W Service over the past 3-4 years... 686 and 617. Write a note explaining exactly what the issues are and include it in the box.
That has worked for me. I was pleased with the service and turn-around time... And you can't beat free shipping both ways.
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Old 05-10-2013, 7:28 PM
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Is the online retailer located in TX?
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  #19  
Old 05-10-2013, 8:23 PM
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If you're not happy with the gun it's between you and the dealer to work out. Smith and Wesson didn't do anything wrong. You bought a gun without inspecting it and the dealer took advantage of that and sent you a gun that was probably handled a lot.
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Old 05-10-2013, 8:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jakejake527 View Post
I bought a used gp 100 with about 500 rounds through it and its turn ring was MUCH less noticeable than my "BNIB" smith
The design of the S&W lockwork is such that there will always be a turn ring.
The bolt/cylinder stop drops down to release the cylinder and then rises up and contacts the cylinder as soon as it is done unlocking the cylinder and it begins to move. It is done that way to ensure positive indexing of the chamber to the barrel.

As was mentioned, all Smiths will have the ring if they have been cycled. I would think that if the mark was excessive it could be an indication that the bolt has a rough edge.
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Old 05-10-2013, 9:05 PM
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I'd like to see pictures too, that way we'll have a better idea for suggestions...I'm just having a hard time visualizing the pitting you've referred to.

Once you've started DROS, you can't cancel it and return the gun...if you weren't happy, you should have acted before you accepted it from the FFL.

You really don't have much issue with S&W unless the damage is more than I'm imagining...the only reason they'd replace the cylinder is if the chambers or bolt notch weren't cur correctly. The ring is normal and they don't clean it after they test fire it at the factory
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  #22  
Old 05-10-2013, 9:16 PM
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I purchased a NEW 3" 686+ couple years ago and it came with turn rings and powder fouling included for free!

Working the action and test firing the gun for function is part of the QC process. S&W also fires their revolvers in order to produce/include the spent casing for MD and NY which maintains them in a database to "track" gun crimes.

After shooting your "new" gun at the factory, S&W does not clean nor spit shine it before shipping it out.

Bottom line: if it's just a little wear and grime, get over it.

If there is truly "pitting" on the barrel, that's another story.

Let's see some pictures.
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Old 05-10-2013, 9:35 PM
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Actually you can often cancel a DROS, that's a state thing, not Federal. The 4473 is more of an issue with your local dealer and if they're willing to or even can, and are you past the inspection time your online dealer allows to accept shipments.
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Old 05-10-2013, 11:49 PM
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I just picked up my 686 today and besides fondling it (hence the finger prints) it's pretty much right out the box. It did have some grease on the outside which is probably just a protective coating. And it does look like the cylinder was turned a few times as I do see a slight ring but barely noticeable. And there was some powder probably from test fire.



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Old 05-11-2013, 7:12 AM
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Thumbs down Smith & Wesson, Poor Self Control

Fixed the title to reflect reality...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jakejake527 View Post
I bought a bnib smith wesson 686 plus 3" online and had it shipped to my local ffl.

Barrel had small pitting outside and turn ring was deep. Also didnt seem clean.

I continued with the dros but im wondering if I did the right thing or should I have contacted the online retailer first about the issue. I was thinking maybe sending it back to smith wesson and have them fix all issues.

You knew you had a funky gun, and you went ahead and took delivery?


Quote:
Originally Posted by jakejake527 View Post
I wanted a brand new in box revolver. Not with a deep turn ri g like its been dry fired 10k times. Dont tell me its ok that I got a like used revolver cause im going to use it anyways.
So, why did you buy the gun?


Quote:
Originally Posted by cindynles View Post
It sounds like the dealer you bought it from is the one who hosed you. Are you sure he sold you a new revolver?
OP hosed himself...see above.


Quote:
Originally Posted by scobun View Post
A turn ring on a Smith stainless takes about 2 to 3 turns to be noticeable. Go try and find a new one without it. Sounds like your dealer hosed you, or you are expecting a little too much, or a combo of both.
OP had the choice to refuse the gun or accept it...dealer simply shipped a gun in a box out of stock.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ptgarcia View Post
If you're not happy with the gun it's between you and the dealer to work out. Smith and Wesson didn't do anything wrong. You bought a gun without inspecting it and the dealer took advantage of that and sent you a gun that was probably handled a lot.
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Old 05-11-2013, 8:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STI View Post
I bought a new 686+ from Turners last year and when I went to pick it up I could have sworn they were selling me a used gun. It also had a turn ring that looked like it had been fired a lot, it was dirty, and the finish was pretty dull. I polished it up a bit and it looks a lot better now, I'm happy with it. My Ruger GP100 on the other hand is a work of art! Only con is that certain ammo is difficult to extract sometimes, maybe I need to polish the chambers.
I was looking at a new 686+ the other day at my lgs and it didn't exactly look like a new gun.
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Old 05-11-2013, 9:06 AM
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I bought my 686+ 4" a few months ago. I will say it may not be perfect, but I am happy with it. Its nowhere near the quality of my Python, but my 686 is my shooter and I am very happy with it. I think the finish on the 686's is the worst part. There are deff areas of the gun where the SS shows more abrasive marks then others, but you will only notice it if you are extremely nit picky. The way I look at it when shooting the gun you don't notice any of this at all and neither will the person on the side of you at the range. He will however notice the loud bang of a .357 round going off next to him :P
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Old 05-11-2013, 9:48 AM
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I just received my new 627pc. It has turn ring. It doesn't bother me because I plan on shooting the snot out of it. I'm sure sure it has been handled and dry fired. Researching other forums, I was concerned about the barrel crown. Will post pics and let more experienced members comment. Regardless I'm sure S&W customer service will make it right.
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Old 05-11-2013, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuda440 View Post
Since you already did the DROS, its yours. You can call and send it in for fixing, but I'm not sure how much they'll do for you. It's sad that the QC has gone down (my 2005 460 is not nearly as nice as my '78 29-2) but you have rising labor and material costs to deal with. It would cost $1500+ for them to build a gun with the same quality of yesteryear, and new smiths just won't sell for that much. If you're looking for perfection, send it to a gunsmith for customization. That's my plan for my 460 anyway.
i find this hard to believe.

has the cost of real american hand labor gone up that much?


wow.... maybe that's why i'm soo attracted to those older pistols.
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Old 05-12-2013, 12:46 AM
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S&W has excellent customer service from my experience. They should fix it no problem.
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Old 05-12-2013, 1:36 AM
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Shame. Love the M&P line. Send it back to get fixed. It will be worth the wait.
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Old 05-12-2013, 4:09 AM
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S&W quality has gone down. However, so has many other companies.

As a point of reference, these are the serrations on my Model 41 that a customer service senior considers "within spec":



Mind you, this is a $1200 .22 pistol.

It shoots fine and is accurate, but something about the serrations doesn't make me feel like the gun was worth $1200.
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Old 05-12-2013, 6:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfbay View Post
i find this hard to believe.

has the cost of real american hand labor gone up that much?


wow.... maybe that's why i'm soo attracted to those older pistols.


Um, where have you been? Skilled labor on par with the S&W and Colt of Pre-1960 comes with names like Hamilton Bowen and Doug Turnbull and a four figure price tag for finish alone.
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eh why bring logic into this, that makes too much sense... besides when you have bested a fool, you have accomplished nothing and he is a fool.
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Old 05-12-2013, 8:23 AM
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Old 05-12-2013, 8:26 AM
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Well what do you think? looks like chit to me. Sorry will try and post more pics.

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Old 05-12-2013, 8:32 AM
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Old 05-12-2013, 8:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank15 View Post
S&W quality has gone down. However, so has many other companies.

As a point of reference, these are the serrations on my Model 41 that a customer service senior considers "within spec":



Mind you, this is a $1200 .22 pistol.

It shoots fine and is accurate, but something about the serrations doesn't make me feel like the gun was worth $1200.
I'll ask the same question I asked OP...Why did you accept the gun when you first saw it?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Canucky View Post
Well what do you think? looks like chit to me. Sorry will try and post more pics.

Same question...still confused.

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Old 05-12-2013, 8:49 AM
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Hanko This was ordered months ago from my dealer. Finally came in. Viewed it quickly during dros. For what I paid and being a CUSTOM SHOP revolver, you think it would be good to go. Just asking for opinions.
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Old 05-12-2013, 8:51 AM
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Wow, that is a horrible looking crown.
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  #40  
Old 05-12-2013, 9:36 AM
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Canucky Canucky is online now
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JakeJake sorry if i hijacked your thread. Posted pic on S&W forum as well. Will call customer service Monday. Better get back to Mothers Day.
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