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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 05-06-2013, 10:26 AM
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Default Worth building 300 Blackout?

I'm seeing a lot of threads where some can't even test out their latest 300 Blackout builds because ammo is so hard to find. Aside from paying $2/round on gunbroker I am wondering what is motivating some to build a 300 Black rifle or pistol? From my understanding 300 ammo was hard enough to find as it was before the ammo "shortage". Some thoughts would be great.
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Old 05-06-2013, 10:30 AM
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The reason guys like it is cause all u need is a blackout upper am u can shoot the round.. Uses 223 BCG, ch, mags.. All u really need is the barrel.. Pop ur 223 upper off put the internals in the blackout upper and u r shooting a .30 cal projectile now.. Pretty cool.. But ammo availability has stoppe me from doing that
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Old 05-06-2013, 10:31 AM
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300 BLK is a reloaders dream for the most part. 223 brass, 308 bullets.
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Old 05-06-2013, 10:32 AM
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I'm in the same boat too. I was hemming and hawing about picking one up before Dec, and I was able to find ammo for about .50-.70 a round. Now- good luck. If I could find some ammo at an okay price I'd pick one up for sure.
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Old 05-06-2013, 10:34 AM
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prerunner, solid info. I've only read more on the cartridge and its purposes but I haven't looked deep into it enough to see what works with what. Sparked the question because I was looking in the AR pistol pic thread the other day and someone posted a really nice 300 pistol build and said they had it since December and haven't even been able to test it yet! That's gotta be rough.
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Old 05-06-2013, 10:35 AM
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I thought the idea of the Blackout round was to be optimized for suppressed shooting. Don't see the purpose in CA.

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Old 05-06-2013, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zfields View Post
300 BLK is a reloaders dream for the most part. 223 brass, 308 bullets.
If that is the case, how come places like Palmetto are selling 300 used brass for $1/each? A week or so ago I saw 25 empty cases for $25 and it sold out in less than an hour. Educate me on this please.
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Old 05-06-2013, 10:36 AM
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I built a 300 blackout rifle a few months ago. I haven't bought any factory ammo, but reloading components have been kind of difficult to come by lately. I'd say go for it if you plan on reloading, but if you don't it might be an expensive gun to shoot.

Here's a few links for brass

http://www.bradswarehouse.com/index.php?p=1_2_Buy-Brass

http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/view...?f=141&t=79181

Last edited by motox917; 05-06-2013 at 10:40 AM.. Reason: added links
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Old 05-06-2013, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KustomFalcon View Post
I thought the idea of the Blackout round was to be optimized for suppressed shooting. Don't see the purpose in CA.
I toyed with a 300 BLK build too and came to the same conclusion. If I ever move it's gonna be high on the list of projects though.
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Old 05-06-2013, 10:41 AM
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It is worth it if you have a .30 cal suppressor and can reload your own subsonics.

Otherwise, no.
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Old 05-06-2013, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motox917 View Post
I built a 300 blackout rifle a few months ago. I haven't bought any factory ammo, but reloading components have been kind of difficult to come by lately. I'd say go for it if you plan on reloading, but if you don't it might be an expensive gun to shoot.

Here's a few links for brass

http://www.bradswarehouse.com/index.php?p=1_2_Buy-Brass

http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/view...?f=141&t=79181
So you can basically re-die and trim standard 223 casings to 300 specs if what I am getting from that thread?
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Old 05-06-2013, 11:03 AM
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Pretty much. You can also find some cheap brass if you wait and shop around. I didn't build mine to go out and blow through thousands of rounds of ammo though, I built it to hunt coyotes and pigs with.
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Old 05-06-2013, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motox917 View Post
Pretty much. You can also find some cheap brass if you wait and shop around. I didn't build mine to go out and blow through thousands of rounds of ammo though, I built it to hunt coyotes and pigs with.
Thanks for the input, learned some things in here.
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Old 05-06-2013, 11:55 AM
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Why does everyone think you have to have it suppressed?

If you run-n-gun or do carbine classes (who allows reloads) its a perfect round. Shoots subsonic with lead cast boolits making ammo come at 4 cents per pop, whats not to like?!

If you hunt, it hits harder then 5.56 and also legal in most states which some only allow .24 cal +.
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Old 05-06-2013, 12:09 PM
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There are many other calibers you can just "swap an upper" for. 7.62x39, 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC/II...
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Old 05-06-2013, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyCamper781 View Post
There are many other calibers you can just "swap an upper" for. 7.62x39, 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC/II...
Very true but, with 300 Blackout and .223/5.56 you can use the same mags and bolts because the brass and overall length is the same.
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Old 05-06-2013, 12:40 PM
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I was looking into the blackout as well but after much reading in came to the same conclusion as falcon its a suppressor round subsonic, with that in mind and still wanteing a 308 out of a 223 case, I have decided on the 7.62x40WT by Wilson combat. Out performs the blackout.
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Old 05-06-2013, 12:41 PM
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The ammo is out there you just have to hunt for it. You'll pay between .92 cents a round to a couple dollars per round and the majority of it is ammo suitable for hunting.

I like the 300Blk so much I own more than a few of them. It's an excellent round for hog hunting too.
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Old 05-06-2013, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by highintel View Post
If that is the case, how come places like Palmetto are selling 300 used brass for $1/each? A week or so ago I saw 25 empty cases for $25 and it sold out in less than an hour. Educate me on this please.
As was covered, expand the case neck, trim to length, and load.
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Old 05-06-2013, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyCamper781 View Post
There are many other calibers you can just "swap an upper" for. 7.62x39, 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC/II...
More to do with compatibility of parts + availability of components.
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Old 05-06-2013, 1:05 PM
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Personally, If I'm swapping the upper, I'd swap bolts / BCG's as well. Changing the upper but keeping the same bolt is economical, but not really user friendly.
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Old 05-06-2013, 1:06 PM
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And there are .30 cal uppers, as stated, with more ammo availibility...
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Old 05-06-2013, 1:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyCamper781 View Post
And there are .30 cal uppers, as stated, with more ammo availibility...
I think you missed the part about "components".
300 blk, as I said before, is a reloaders dream caliber.


Combined with being able to use the same bolt and mags makes it very nice...remember all those 223 pre ban mags in your closet that you can use? They don't seem to work very well with any of the other non-223 based casings.


Either way, what you want to use it up to you. If you are not a reloader, I can see where the appeal for 300blk drops out a bit. For me, I plan on building a 300 blk upper very soon.
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Old 05-06-2013, 1:14 PM
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I'm interested in .300BLK as well, but I'm waiting until I have all of the 5.56 stuff I need first.

One thing that should be pointed out: If you put a magazine full of .300BLK into an AR with a .223/5.56 upper and drop the bolt, the round will chamber. It sets the bullet back in the case and blocks the throat with the obviously over-sized bullet. If you pull the trigger at that point Very Bad Things will happen. So if you are running .300BLK and .223 in the same range session be extra careful about which ammo goes in which gun.
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Old 05-06-2013, 1:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mstlaurent View Post
I'm interested in .300BLK as well, but I'm waiting until I have all of the 5.56 stuff I need first.

One thing that should be pointed out: If you put a magazine full of .300BLK into an AR with a .223/5.56 upper and drop the bolt, the round will chamber. It sets the bullet back in the case and blocks the throat with the obviously over-sized bullet. If you pull the trigger at that point Very Bad Things will happen. So if you are running .300BLK and .223 in the same range session be extra careful about which ammo goes in which gun.
Erm, shouldn't it not chamber due to the increased case neck diameter? Not saying this hasn't happened, but it sounds a bit odd.
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Old 05-06-2013, 1:21 PM
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Look at the side-by-side of the two rounds:



The neck diameter is larger, but the new neck is actually below the shoulder of the .223 round. It chambers just fine.
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Old 05-06-2013, 1:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mstlaurent View Post
Look at the side-by-side of the two rounds:

The neck diameter is larger, but the new neck is actually below the shoulder of the .223 round. It chambers just fine.
Good point, didn't think about chamber length. That would be a good way to really mess up your day.
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Old 05-06-2013, 1:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zfields View Post
As was covered, expand the case neck, trim to length, and load.

Expanding the case neck isn't required, as the trimmed length of the 300 brass is below the shoulder of the 5.56/223 case. The forming process is actually pretty easy. I trim the shoulder off the original case using a cheap harbor freight chop saw. No fancy jigs or fixtures, you just need a reference point of where to clamp the 5.56 case to cut enough of the shoulder away. Doesn't even need to be a really square cut. Once the shoulder is cut away, de-burr the edges (Lee chamfer tool works well for this), lube it and run it through a full length sizing die to re-size and create the new shoulder. Once it has been resized, you can do the final trim to the correct length for spec. I bought a Little Crow Gunworks "WFT" for making the final trim cut, it seems to work really well for this.
http://www.littlecrowgunworks.com/wft.html

One word of caution when using the WFT or any trimmer that indexes off of the cartridge shoulder: Different brands of cases have variations in heat treatment/anealing which affects the way the brass responds to sizing in the die. Brass that is not fully anealed well into the shoulder area will not size as small as brass that has been anealed in that area. The harder non anealed brass will spring back more from the sizing process than anealed brass, causing the shoulder to sit further out. The trimmer indexes off the shoulder, so the overall length of the trimmed brass will also be longer due to this. The trimmer will need to be reset for trimming this brass to get it to the same length. Specifically, I've noticed that Prvi brass tends to spring back a lot more than the Lake City military brass that has been anealed further down the walls of the case. (This can also cause issues with neck tension as well. The harder cases tend to have very little tension holding the bullet in place. probably okay for a bolt gun, but I would be hesitant to run them in a semi auto.) Moral of the story: Be sure to separate cases by headstamp prior to trimming, and check length frequently while trimming to make sure all trimmed cases are within spec.
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Old 05-06-2013, 1:42 PM
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Originally Posted by FMJBT View Post
Expanding the case neck isn't required, as the trimmed length of the 300 brass is below the shoulder of the 5.56/223 case.

/snip
Thank you for the correction. I was a bit oversimplifying it either way, but I was under a different impression for forming it then the method you are using. Sounds pretty straight forward !
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Old 05-06-2013, 1:45 PM
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I hear that it is a good candidate for cast boolits. I am looking into it for that reason.
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Old 05-06-2013, 2:26 PM
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I'd rather keep shooting my 7.62x39 ar at 25cents a round before even thinking about getting one of these
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Old 05-07-2013, 7:03 AM
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Seems like the last few times I was at Walmart and looked in the ammo section, there was .300BO for sale at a reasonable price. What's reasonable you ask? Less than $20 for a box of 20.

5.56mm was cheap because there is so much of it being made. Just like .22LR. If people stopped buying up everything they see (both squirrels and speculators), just because it's there, the panic would end, and the prices would stabilize.

Steel case is cheaper, because much it what's available is surplus being release from foreign government invernotories. For the most part, it's low quality ammo made out of inexpensive components. And it's not necessarily good for your guns. Why spent $$$ on gun, worry about the cosmetics, and run the cheapest junk available through the gun?

.300BO has plenty of uses in CA (and other States, even if you can't run a suppressor). Like for home defense. Harder hitting than 5.56mm at the distances likely to be encountered in a HD situation, with lower noise report (save your ears).

I say if you don't have a rifle or carbine for SHTF and/or HD, your first gun to be one that you can count on to be able to find ammo and spare parts for that is in common use. An AR15 in 5.56mm fills that bill nicely.

If you already have an AR15 in 5.56mm and want something that hits harder, or that might be better for HD situations, then consider a .300BO upper that you can swap onto your AR15 (or one of your AR15s). In a BO situation, you're probably going to want to revert back to 5.56mm if you're only going to be carrying one rifle or carbine, and you're worried about ammo availability.

As for 7.62 X 39 fans. You guys are going with 7.62 X 39 because it's been cheap and available. The Countries that used to have millions of 7.62 X 39 guns issued to their troops have been removing them from service and selling off their ammo stockpiles. What happens when the supplies of old surplus steel case imports dries up? And, the Obama Admininstration is working on restricting imports of guns and ammo right now.

What do you think is going to happen to the price of 7.62 when the only ammo available comes from US Factories, and is the standard US Quality brass case ammo? The result is predictable, the price is going to shoot up way over the going rate for 5.56mm to the same range as other centerfire calibers.

As has been pointed out, there are other 7.62 variants out there. But, they have been out there for years, without reaching the general acceptance that it looks that .300BO is going achieve. I would compare that to the way that .40S&W has captured much of the Law Enforcement Market, and taken much of the Consumer Market for pistols.
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Old 05-07-2013, 7:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heretodaygonetomorrow View Post
As for 7.62 X 39 fans. You guys are going with 7.62 X 39 because it's been cheap and available. The Countries that used to have millions of 7.62 X 39 guns issued to their troops have been removing them from service and selling off their ammo stockpiles.
Most the steel cased you see these days is new, commercial production, from russian factories. Beyond the Yugo 70-80s surplus, there hasnt been much 762x39 surplus on the market for a while.

545x39 is still mainly surplus, with a small amount of commercial production from silverbear / wolf.


Consider how lucrative the ammunition market is, I doubt those factories are going to retire that ammo out very quickly, unless of course imports get restricted.
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Old 05-07-2013, 8:04 AM
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excellent match up the .300 AAC and the AR, excellent Platform for Hunting, I like it better than my 6.8 and 7.62 X 39 Uppers or my second best after 5.56.

expect the import of cheap 7.62 X 39 to end in the near future, try and think ahead and you wont get hurt as bad
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Old 05-07-2013, 9:07 AM
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Originally Posted by sd_fox_racer View Post
I was looking into the blackout as well but after much reading in came to the same conclusion as falcon its a suppressor round subsonic, with that in mind and still wanteing a 308 out of a 223 case, I have decided on the 7.62x40WT by Wilson combat. Out performs the blackout.
But even harder to find ammo for then the 300Blackout.
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Old 05-07-2013, 9:11 AM
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...expect the import of cheap 7.62 X 39 to end in the near future, try and think ahead and you wont get hurt as bad
With Obama giving Holder the authority to determine what weapons/ammo can be imported you can expect cheap russian ammo to dry up fast, just like the Chinese stuff did under Clinton.
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Old 05-07-2013, 9:23 AM
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this round is so damn easy to reload and it is so damn easy to convert 223 brass to this caliber, why are people worried about ammo prices?
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Old 05-07-2013, 10:35 AM
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this round is so damn easy to reload and it is so damn easy to convert 223 brass to this caliber, why are people worried about ammo prices?
QFT

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Old 05-08-2013, 12:16 PM
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QFT


Awesome. Thank you for posting this!
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Old 05-08-2013, 1:47 PM
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I was thinking the same thing, i've been teeter tottering whether or not to sell my spare lower dedicated for a 300blk build, but given that a) no suppressors here b) i don't have a reloading setup and c) i already have an expensive 308 battle rifle, i passed up on this. Besides my Saiga AK does me well
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