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  #1  
Old 04-30-2013, 7:06 AM
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Default Attorney specializing in DFG cases?

A friend of mine was written for having leaded ammo and spotlighting by DFG. Anyone know any good DFG lawyers I can refer him to? Thanks.
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Old 04-30-2013, 7:55 AM
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What's his location?
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Old 04-30-2013, 8:28 AM
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Just curious - what's the bite for the citation, vs the bite a lawyer would charge?

Does the citation come with heavy penalties that need to be avoided at all costs? I'm not being a smart-*** - I'm genuinely curious......
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Old 04-30-2013, 8:36 AM
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Originally Posted by bigbossman View Post
Just curious - what's the bite for the citation, vs the bite a lawyer would charge?

Does the citation come with heavy penalties that need to be avoided at all costs? I'm not being a smart-*** - I'm genuinely curious......
Those are good points and I am also curious.

With all of the new misdemeanors being added to the list of firearms prohibitions it is becoming worth it to fight any case. They will eventually call spotlighting poaching. I don't condone spotlighting or most of the charges that are being added to the list of prohibitions, I just feel that the punishment should be understood and not later increased by adding one's name to a list or by banning rights.
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Old 04-30-2013, 1:05 PM
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Poaching is the illegal taking of wildlife. I am assuming there was a kill involved or weapons were present. Since spotlighting is illegal, spotlighting is poaching. This is not new.
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Old 04-30-2013, 1:14 PM
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This is the state fine schedule. Judges have the latitude to reduce fines if they choose.

2005 FGC: Unlawful use of artificial light,Base Fine $500, State PA $300, County PA $210, DNA PA $120, Court PA $150, Surcharge $60, EMS PA $60 = Total Fine $1200.00

3004.5(a) FGC: Use of Unlawful Rifle or Pistol Ammunition: Base Fine $500, State PA $500, County PA $350, DNA PA $200, Court PA $ 250, Surcharge $100, EMS PA $100 = Total Fine $2000
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Old 04-30-2013, 3:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5shot View Post
This is the state fine schedule. Judges have the latitude to reduce fines if they choose.

2005 FGC: Unlawful use of artificial light,Base Fine $500, State PA $300, County PA $210, DNA PA $120, Court PA $150, Surcharge $60, EMS PA $60 = Total Fine $1200.00

3004.5(a) FGC: Use of Unlawful Rifle or Pistol Ammunition: Base Fine $500, State PA $500, County PA $350, DNA PA $200, Court PA $ 250, Surcharge $100, EMS PA $100 = Total Fine $2000
Thanks for that, John!

The next two questions would be

A) How much would a lawyer charge to represent? And more importantly...

B) Aside from the fines, are there any other penalties - banned from hunting in CA, confiscation of gear, criminal record affecting other aspects of life like employment, gun ownership, etc.

I'm just trying to gauge, hypothetically, what the cheaper of the two options would be were I in this man's shoes and I were guilty of the charges. Pay the fines and go on with life after accruing "lessons learned", or lawyering up for more than the fine values to make it go away..... assuming that could be done.

Last edited by bigbossman; 04-30-2013 at 3:07 PM..
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Old 04-30-2013, 3:40 PM
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www.michellawyers.com

LMAO

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Old 04-30-2013, 3:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottB View Post
Poaching is the illegal taking of wildlife. I am assuming there was a kill involved or weapons were present. Since spotlighting is illegal, spotlighting is poaching. This is not new.
Poaching is the illegal hunting of wildlife. It has to do with more than just the actual taking of wildlife the mere attempt to illegally take an animal is illegal. Also, spotlighting certain animals at certain times is 100% legal. In fact, I've legally spotlighted deer in CA with a deprivation permit. The use of legal lights while sport hunting is also clearly defined in DFG regs. So, spotlighting is not always illegal nor is it always poaching.
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Old 04-30-2013, 4:24 PM
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You aare correct no actual take is necessary for poaching to occur. There was no mention of a depredation permit, so my assumption there was obvious.

Legal use of lights does not apply to game animals and if nothing else would violate the prohibition against night hunting (of game animals).
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Old 04-30-2013, 4:36 PM
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264. Use of Lights While Hunting--Specific Areas.

264.5. Use of Lights While Hunting--Remainder of State.

http://www.fgc.ca.gov/regulations/cu...ammalregs.aspx
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Old 04-30-2013, 5:14 PM
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We have what is said about a light but to have poaching charged it is my understanding a means to take the game must be in your possesion or care. If there is no weapon involved that is capable of taking the game I understand poaching is not to be charged. If I am wrong shout out.

Also remember it does not have to be a white light it can include night vision star lights etc. be careful if you have one of these in your vehicle.

Any three convictions of a statute in five years warrants taking your hunting rights.
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Old 04-30-2013, 7:23 PM
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Any three convictions of a statute in five years warrants taking your hunting rights.
Ahh...... this is salient to my query. So in the OP's case, fighting it would make sense, as that would be two separate convictions if guilt is found the fines are paid?
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Old 05-02-2013, 8:16 AM
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So no one knows any lawyers except Chuck Michel?

I am figuring the lawyer would be able to answer the questions about what is cheaper, taking the fines or hiring the lawyer. I am just trying to do the guy a favor and help him find a lawyer to figure it out.

I will tell him to give Loren Kleier a call. He spoke at the Bakersfield Day of Resistance.

http://www.bakersfieldbusinessguide....ier-law-office
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Old 05-02-2013, 8:29 AM
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Contact Spectr17- Owns Jesse's hunting and outdoor forum.

I would bet dollars to donuts he knows a few that have experience in this area of the law.
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Old 05-02-2013, 11:01 AM
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Where were the citations issued? If Monterey County big fine. Get an attorney.
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Old 05-02-2013, 1:05 PM
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Wes, More than likely some of the charges will stick. Add the charge to the lawyer fee and boom, you just paid full dollar. It really is a middle of the road charge. Get a lawyer and pay the lawyer. Just cause you get a lawyer doesn't mean that you will win the case outright.

With limited information on what happened its probably hard for anyone here to see if its worth it or not.

In all the years i have been hunting, i have really never heard of an attorney who actually specializes in F&G law. Probably not enough money in it to make a profession out of it. GL
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Old 05-02-2013, 3:15 PM
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Originally Posted by taperxz View Post
Wes, More than likely some of the charges will stick. Add the charge to the lawyer fee and boom, you just paid full dollar. It really is a middle of the road charge. Get a lawyer and pay the lawyer. Just cause you get a lawyer doesn't mean that you will win the case outright.

With limited information on what happened its probably hard for anyone here to see if its worth it or not.

In all the years i have been hunting, i have really never heard of an attorney who actually specializes in F&G law. Probably not enough money in it to make a profession out of it. GL
I am not going to armchair quarterback it. I am just trying to put him in touch with an attorney and they can figure out his best course of action. Its really none of my business other than the guy asked for help.

Just be sure you don't have any leaded ammo anywhere in the vehicle if you are hunting. That is the lesson of the day.
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Old 05-02-2013, 3:21 PM
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Again, what is his location? There's no point in giving a lawyer reference if the lawyer is going to have to bill for 4 hours of driving time to represent somone 5 counties out of his way.

But I will give you a little advice coming from somone who has had more encounters with game wardens and court dates as a result than I'd like to admit, get a lawyer. A 1000$ lawyer investment can make numerous charges turn into a single charge that can turn a single charge to a lesser charge that can turn a fine into a lesser fine that can turn a misdemeanor into an infraction. Do the numbers then make the call. There is no need to get an expensive lawyer. Just a lawyer who gets along with a district attorney. It will be over much quicker and cheaper.
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Last edited by bigboarstopper; 05-02-2013 at 3:28 PM..
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Old 05-02-2013, 3:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenpercentfirearms View Post
I am not going to armchair quarterback it. I am just trying to put him in touch with an attorney and they can figure out his best course of action. Its really none of my business other than the guy asked for help.

Just be sure you don't have any leaded ammo anywhere in the vehicle if you are hunting. That is the lesson of the day.


Only in the condor zone.

In the condor zone, not having lead ammo, goes without saying. Anyone who hunts in the condor zone knows this and would expect a citation if caught.
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Old 05-02-2013, 3:35 PM
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Originally Posted by bigboarstopper View Post
Again, what is his location? There's no point in giving a lawyer reference if the lawyer is going to have to bill for 4 hours of driving time to represent somone 5 counties out of his way.

But I will give you a little advice coming from somone who has had more encounters with game wardens and court dates as a result than I'd like to admit, get a lawyer. A 1000$ lawyer investment can make numerous charges turn into a single charge that can turn a single charge to a lesser charge that can turn a fine into a lesser fine that can turn a misdemeanor into an infraction. Do the numbers then make the call. There is no need to get an expensive lawyer. Just a lawyer who gets along with a district attorney. It will be over much quicker and cheaper.
Listen to bigboarstopper! He is a professional guide Wes. He probably just gave you the best advice on this situation.
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Old 05-02-2013, 3:56 PM
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Pay the fine. Will probably end up being about $1200-$2500. Most likely this will be handled in Traffic Court and the Commissioner may offer a chance for your friend to reduce the Misdemeanor to and Infraction. This would be one strike; three strikes and you loose your hunting privileges in CA. I am 99.9% sure that this will have no affect on your ability to own firearms.

I have never dealt with an attorney on an issue like this, so I have no idea how much it would cost. It just seems easier to put this incident in the past as soon as possible.
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Old 05-02-2013, 4:20 PM
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Unless he is innocent of the charges! Sorry I just assumed he was guilty.
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Old 05-05-2013, 7:47 AM
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Thanks for the links.
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Old 05-05-2013, 2:15 PM
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Sorry I can't really recommend anyone that specializes in DFW infractions or court cases. Most of the cases I know about the person cited just went and hired a criminal attorney, anywhere from 1K to 3K is what I can remember them spending. They all said they would hire the attorney again since the DA is going to throw everything they can against the wall to see what sticks and then your lawyer can parse that down to what you may actually need to plead down to if you are guilty or not. It's like transmissions, I take that to a pro since I don't want to muck it up and pay 3x what it would normally take.
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Old 05-06-2013, 1:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottB View Post
Poaching is the illegal taking of wildlife. I am assuming there was a kill involved or weapons were present. Since spotlighting is illegal, spotlighting is poaching. This is not new.
You need to educate yourself. Spotlighting IS legal depending on local regs. Don't generalize. You are giving false information. Thanks.
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Old 05-06-2013, 1:51 AM
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NEVER not try. It means having a criminal record since a F&G 2005 conviction carries a misdemeanor. Hell to the no. Always lawyer up. Its gonna cost you but whats your CLEAR name worth?
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Old 05-06-2013, 8:51 AM
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Spotlighting with a firearm in the vehicle is illegal in some areas of the state. In monterey county having both spotlight and firearm in vehicle is a violation even if not using spotlight at night.

Last edited by edgerly779; 05-07-2013 at 6:34 AM..
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Old 05-06-2013, 9:12 AM
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No problem 10% you're welcome.

That can't be true entirely true edgerly779, because you can't legally spotlight from a vehicle in Monterey County, but you can spotlight east of Highway 101 in Monterey County but only on foot. If you read the regulation it is legal to spotlight from a vehecle in one of the zones and not from a public road but not in Monterey County. If you spotlight east of highway 101 in Monterey County you can only use a hand held flashlight 9 volts or lower.
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Old 05-07-2013, 6:33 AM
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If you have no firearm you can spotlight game. You are correct about that portion of monterey county. The patrol lieutenant there is Todd Tognazzini and he is rigid on enforcement. We used to have Jim Solis and he was fair .
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Old 05-08-2013, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spectr17 View Post
Sorry I can't really recommend anyone that specializes in DFW infractions or court cases. Most of the cases I know about the person cited just went and hired a criminal attorney, anywhere from 1K to 3K is what I can remember them spending. They all said they would hire the attorney again since the DA is going to throw everything they can against the wall to see what sticks and then your lawyer can parse that down to what you may actually need to plead down to if you are guilty or not. It's like transmissions, I take that to a pro since I don't want to muck it up and pay 3x what it would normally take.
Opps there goes me dollars.
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