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Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California

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  #41  
Old 05-01-2013, 9:31 PM
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There are some strong statements above and I'd never disagree with them. I'll add my 2 cents.

Just because one has passed their CCW class that doesn't automatically make them prepared to carry.

If you believe "the horror stories about accidental discharges on most Glocks due to no safety" then you are clearly not ready. There may be one or two in history but I don't know of any accidental discharge from a Glock except for ones that guys ****ed up playing amateur gunsmith because they know how to fix Glock's design flaws. Keep your carry gun stock except maybe sights, at least for the foreseeable future. But there's no requirement to stick with your first gun if it doesn't work for you.

Find a quality instructor and take some additional classes that emphasize the basics of drawing and firing your gun. You don't need fancy 'tactical' training, yet.

At home, spend every minute possible with your unloaded gun in your hand, and observing every safety rule, until you never ever break a rule, then do it some more.

You'll get more and more confident. Take another class and if you find you have no concern when the instructor has you load and make ready, then you might be ready.
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  #42  
Old 05-02-2013, 7:24 AM
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Originally Posted by HighLander51 View Post
You are serious? You heard stories? On the internet? Then get a gun with lots of safeties. Or get a revolver, after all, there are no safeties on double action revolvers... The only way ANY gun can discharge is the MORON attached to the gun pulls the trigger! WTF. Yeah, carry with an empty chamber, and after the perp puts 3 rounds into you while you are screwing around trying to chamber, well, it won't matter then.

You should rethink getting a CCW, well that is if you even get approved. Why don't you ask your issuing agency what they think about unloaded carry?

I carried 1911's from 1968 to 1992, and Glocks ever since then. This is as stupid as asking if you should decock a 1911.
Hmmm...not so sure you have to be a moron and pull the trigger. In my CCW class one example the instructor provided was during a Fed agent range qual a very experienced agent ended up shooting himself in the foot while reholstering. The cause of the accident? His windbreaker jacket had those stretchy things that synch up the waste and one of them go caught in the trigger guard. When he went to move the pressure on the jacket pull the trigger on his pistol. The example was provided as an example of being careful about clothing selection when CCW.
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  #43  
Old 05-02-2013, 7:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tylersdad View Post
I am VERY interested in the VG2. How well does it stay in place? Do you use the belt loop?

I have a Glock 26 as well.

I don't suggest the VG2 for beginners!!! It's a holster that is primarily made for appendix carry and should never be reholstered while on the belt.
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  #44  
Old 05-02-2013, 8:01 AM
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my two cents is... carry one in the chamber or don't carry at all... in a high stress time you will prob not be able to rack the slide anyways... Glocks have 3 safties and it drives me CRAZY when people say that they aren't safe because they do not have an external saftey.. If you have halfway decent holster that covers the trigger you will not have a problem...
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  #45  
Old 05-02-2013, 8:14 AM
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I'd guess there may be more glocks being EDC'd than any other brand of pistol. with that said, this is a personal decision. It sounds like you may not be comfortable with it, and that is not good. you may try and carry without one in the pipe to get more comfy with the general idea of carry and then progres to being comfy with one in the pipe.
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  #46  
Old 05-02-2013, 8:20 AM
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G26 with a Foxx hybrid for IWB and a Phantom modular Raven Concealment for OWB. The people who have problems with Glock's usually have problems when they reholster, are in a hurry and don't pay attention. I've had Kimber and Colt1911's and a whole host of other pistols but when I depend on one for saving my life or my family I choose Glock right out of the box.
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  #47  
Old 05-02-2013, 8:28 AM
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from another site: make sure you use proper equipment.









CHECK YOUR HOLSTER'S IF YOU CARRY A GLOCK.
The victim says:
What the hell was that?!? she said. It took me a half a second to realize that my gun had just gone off on my hip in its holster. My wife and I had just finished breakfast at our favorite cafe and got into the car.
Me being the passenger, I rotated my torso to the left to fasten my seatbelt like I always do. When I straightened again, my Glock 19 discharged, blowing a 9mm hole through my pants, underwear, the leather seat and bottom of the car's door frame.
The bullet nicked my hip, but the wound is nothing a bandage couldn't cover. So what went wrong? Guns never go Bang! all by themselves.
After ensuring I wasn't hemorrhaging profusely and didn't have to make a dash for the hospital, I stayed seated in the car as my wife came around to my door and opened it. I undid my belt and slid the Galco JAK202 Slide Belt Holster, with the gun still in it, off my belt. Why it went off was immediately apparent.
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  #48  
Old 05-02-2013, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H2H View Post
from another site: make sure you use proper equipment.









CHECK YOUR HOLSTER'S IF YOU CARRY A GLOCK.
The victim says:
What the hell was that?!? she said. It took me a half a second to realize that my gun had just gone off on my hip in its holster. My wife and I had just finished breakfast at our favorite cafe and got into the car.
Me being the passenger, I rotated my torso to the left to fasten my seatbelt like I always do. When I straightened again, my Glock 19 discharged, blowing a 9mm hole through my pants, underwear, the leather seat and bottom of the car's door frame.
The bullet nicked my hip, but the wound is nothing a bandage couldn't cover. So what went wrong? Guns never go Bang! all by themselves.
After ensuring I wasn't hemorrhaging profusely and didn't have to make a dash for the hospital, I stayed seated in the car as my wife came around to my door and opened it. I undid my belt and slid the Galco JAK202 Slide Belt Holster, with the gun still in it, off my belt. Why it went off was immediately apparent.
kydex holsters help take care of that problem.
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  #49  
Old 05-02-2013, 10:19 AM
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Check your holsters no matter what you carry.

I always inform people to buy quality holsters with reinforced mouths that don't collapse so these types of incidents don't happen, and it makes holstering either.


Quote:
Originally Posted by esy View Post
kydex holsters help take care of that problem.

Kydex is far from infallible, they are pone to cracking and breaking as well.

The guy above did not maintain his equipment and as far as I'm concerned, that holster is garbage regardless of the manufacturer.


EDIT: Oop. Sorry Shenanigans, I messed up your post when I was trying to quote from it. I think I have it as originally you posted - QBG
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Last edited by Shenaniguns; 05-02-2013 at 10:55 AM..
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  #50  
Old 05-02-2013, 10:38 AM
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Yup.

And OP, if I missed it, I apologize, but if your serious about EDC (and if you can, why wouldn't you be?) you might as well get used to the dirty little holster secret of the guy who LTCs:

You are going to end up with a whole drawer full of holsters that didn't work. Sad but true. It may look good in the magazine or online, but you're going to end up with a pile that just don't work. And even worse, there's no real way to tell. Stick with the quality makes, avoid the Uncle Mike's 'One Size Fits None' garbage, and you'll narrow down the search a lot.

I finally settled on an MTAC by CompTac, but I have at least a half dozen previous models from different manufacturers that didn't make the cut.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shenaniguns View Post
Check your holsters no matter what you carry.

Kydex is far from infallible, they are pone to cracking and breaking as well.

The guy above did not maintain his equipment and as far as I'm concerned, that holster is garbage regardless of the manufacturer.
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  #51  
Old 05-02-2013, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuarterBoreGunner View Post
Yup.

And OP, if I missed it, I apologize, but if your serious about EDC (and if you can, why wouldn't you be?) you might as well get used to the dirty little holster secret of the guy who LTCs:

You are going to end up with a whole drawer full of holsters that didn't work. Sad but true. It may look good in the magazine or online, but you're going to end up with a pile that just don't work. And even worse, there's no real way to tell. Stick with the quality makes, avoid the Uncle Mike's 'One Size Fits None' garbage, and you'll narrow down the search a lot.

I finally settled on an MTAC by CompTac, but I have at least a half dozen previous models from different manufacturers that didn't make the cut.
quarterbore You are spot on "the dirty little secret". I thought that I could significantly beat the curve... well I did, later on. After my first experiences with holsters, not all bad, I found that I liked a particular style. It seems in the beginning we just assume that a quality holster should work just fine, well if they don't work nearly perfect it becomes an irritant (at best and dangerous at worse) after a full day. Using the internet and this forum is a great resource. Even if you want to carry a stapler... oh I mean G19.
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Last edited by Charlie50; 05-04-2013 at 4:43 PM..
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  #52  
Old 05-02-2013, 12:10 PM
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Ive been practicing with a galco kydex trition iwb... I also might order the Raven VG 2 as well
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  #53  
Old 05-02-2013, 1:17 PM
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When I was waiting for my CCW a good friend who had a G26 had me come to his office to go to lunch and he presented me with 5 holsters he had that he didn't like after he got them. After trying them around the house with an empty G26 I found out that I didn't like them either. They were all quality holsters. The moral of the story is that you can't tell unless you actually wear them for a while.
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  #54  
Old 05-02-2013, 1:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuarterBoreGunner View Post
Yup.

And OP, if I missed it, I apologize, but if your serious about EDC (and if you can, why wouldn't you be?) you might as well get used to the dirty little holster secret of the guy who LTCs:

You are going to end up with a whole drawer full of holsters that didn't work. Sad but true. It may look good in the magazine or online, but you're going to end up with a pile that just don't work. And even worse, there's no real way to tell. Stick with the quality makes, avoid the Uncle Mike's 'One Size Fits None' garbage, and you'll narrow down the search a lot.

I finally settled on an MTAC by CompTac, but I have at least a half dozen previous models from different manufacturers that didn't make the cut.
+1 on the MTAC.

I ended up getting multiple holsters for different environments, and a holster or two that did not make the cut:

Comp-Tac MTAC Minotaur for daily carry. Love this holster, one can easily adjust the forward cant as well as depth from the top of your belt to below it.

The Raven Concealment Vanguard 2 Holster a great minimalist holster. I also use this in my hydration pack as a trail holster when I am trail running or hiking.

I hope to have favorable reviews on the Comp-Tac Infidel Ultra holster. This seems like a good addition to the MTAC.

OP, happy to say you will be trying a lot of holsters out. There is no "one" holster for many. Have fun!

Last edited by SouperMan; 05-02-2013 at 7:24 PM..
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  #55  
Old 05-02-2013, 7:05 PM
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Originally Posted by jb7706 View Post
I strongly disagree. $200/day plus ammo is nothing compared to failing to protect yourself or family when the time comes.

The rest is good, though I have not had the same experience with the M&P series of autoloaders. They have been every bit as reliable as a Glock, but they do rust much easier.
You make a good point that $300-$400 to take a class every 3 months, along with regular minimum monthly range visits is nothing compared to being prepared in the event you need to defend yourself or your family.

I've heard good things about the M&P's, but haven't had much time behind them. I would have to say the Glock finish is one of the toughest out of all of the guns I own.
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  #56  
Old 05-02-2013, 11:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shenaniguns View Post
Check your holsters no matter what you carry.

I always inform people to buy quality holsters with reinforced mouths that don't collapse so these types of incidents don't happen, and it makes holstering either.





Kydex is far from infallible, they are pone to cracking and breaking as well.

The guy above did not maintain his equipment and as far as I'm concerned, that holster is garbage regardless of the manufacturer.


EDIT: Oop. Sorry Shenanigans, I messed up your post when I was trying to quote from it. I think I have it as originally you posted - QBG
Oh, I agree. I'm not saying that kydex would've totally and completely solved that guy's problem, but it definitely would've helped his situation better than his did. I'm still waiting on my Bravo holster to see how well that one does. The Galco Kingtuk that I currently use is ok, but I think it could be better.
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  #57  
Old 05-03-2013, 12:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pointerman View Post
His windbreaker jacket had those stretchy things that synch up the waste and one of them go caught in the trigger guard. When he went to move the pressure on the jacket pull the trigger on his pistol. The example was provided as an example of being careful about clothing selection when CCW.
I was just about to mention this incident. To the OP. As long as you have a quality holster, have good trigger finger discipline and don't have any clothing issues, there is no real problem carrying striker fired pistols "hot". I have carried 3 different types of striker fired pistols and have never had an issue.

If you still don't like the idea of carrying with one in the pipe I would suggest getting a DAO pistol like a LC 9 or Sig P250, P290, etc.

Last edited by StuckInTheP.R.O.Ca; 05-03-2013 at 1:15 AM..
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  #58  
Old 05-03-2013, 12:27 AM
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a glock or any handgun by itself will never fire on its own regardless if its in your hand, in a safe, or in a quality holster. The only way for it to fire is if your booger hook pulls on the bang switch.

before you actually carrying your handgun loaded, practice, practice, and practice, untill you are 110% safe and comfortable un-holstering and re-holstering your gun.
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  #59  
Old 05-03-2013, 12:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Sir Stunna Lot View Post
a glock or any handgun by itself will never fire on its own regardless if its in your hand, in a safe, or in a quality holster. The only way for it to fire is if your booger hook pulls on the bang switch.
Not exactly. The incident mentioned above reference the plastic piece at the end of a draw string on a jacket is a prime example of how an outside influence can cause a AD and the quality of the holster was not a factor.

I have also read about an incident where a detective was carrying his Sig 226 on top of some files and it dropped on the ground. It landed hammer first with the muzzle pointing at the detective. It fired and killed the detective. The detective had a habit of not using the decocker to decock and would just lower the hammer like a 1911. According to Sig this can create a condition in which the firing pin block does not function correctly. There was no "booger hook" involved in either of these incidents.

Also I have seen drop tests where modern handguns have discharged after being dropped on concrete. I can't recall the drop height but it was well beyond a typical humans height.

Ammunition in a firearm that is exposed to extreme heat such as a fire can cook off causing a discharge. No "booger hook" necessary here either.

Also a firearm exposed to a detonation of a thermo nuclear device.......... LOL. Ok I'm splitting hairs here.

The moral of the story: Never say "never". There will always be some exceptions.

Last edited by StuckInTheP.R.O.Ca; 05-03-2013 at 1:16 AM..
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  #60  
Old 05-03-2013, 5:42 PM
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Holster shirts and shoulder holsters all too often configure the gun to have a permanent type 1 safety violation with the gun "covering" everyone behind you.

First I am a fan of waist level strong side carry.

Second I am a fan of rigid holsters for issues of securing the gun and safety (less likely to have a ND). There are plenty of great IWB rigid holsters such as the Crossbreed and the various similar competing holsters on the market.

With safe and proper gun handling and a proper holster a negligent discharge should not be a particular concern.
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  #61  
Old 05-21-2013, 1:22 PM
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YOUR GUN SHOULD NEVER COME OUT OF ITS HOLSTER. As long as the trigger is covered and the gun remains in the holster you have nothing to worry about.
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Old 05-21-2013, 2:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madstyle1 View Post
Ya its more of something catching on the trigger and not actually me having my finger on it. When i took my ccw class my instructor advised me to not chamber it in cuz he had had seen way too many accidents. Thats why he never favored glocks.
And my instructors were the exact opposite; always carry with one in the chamber, regardless of the gun. Their thought was that you may not have time to chamber one, and worse yet.......... failure to fire's happen much more often on the manual chambering.

Apparently everyone has their own opinion.
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  #63  
Old 05-21-2013, 2:14 PM
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Originally Posted by madstyle1 View Post
Ya its more of something catching on the trigger and not actually me having my finger on it. When i took my ccw class my instructor advised me to not chamber it in cuz he had had seen way too many accidents. Thats why he never favored glocks.

Uh, what instructor is this? Sounds like he shouldn't be an instructor.
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Old 05-21-2013, 3:01 PM
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Glock, the most popular handgun for law enforcement.

Its not the tool that is unsafe, its the user and his training.

I am very happy with mine. Shoots well, and is always ready.
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Old 05-21-2013, 8:39 PM
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1. carry in something that covers the trigger.
2. keep your finger off of said trigger.

I carry my g23 everywhere, loaded with one ready to go, and haven't blown myself up yet. just be smart. practice drawing with your finger off the trigger (with a safe gun of course)
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Old 05-21-2013, 8:39 PM
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Uh, what instructor is this? Sounds like he shouldn't be an instructor.
to quote Rooster Cogburn,
"if it aint loaded and cocked it don't shoot!"
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Old 05-22-2013, 6:43 AM
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Ive been carrying my glock for a about a week now with one in the pipe. That raven concealment vanguard 2 works really well. Great investment.
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Old 05-22-2013, 8:52 AM
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I EDC a G26 and my wife has a G19. Most AD's occur when re-holstering so make sure you have a Kydex holster, the leather ones, especially the cheap ones and the nylon ones can have the top fold over and actually hit the trigger when you re-holster. Don't go cheap on a holster and don't get a Serpa as your first holster. I have a Foxx Hybrid and a Raven Concealment and am ordering a Com-Tac for range work. Blade-Tec is also a top rated holster. Don't forget a good gun belt like a Looper, Aker or Bullhide belt.

For the Serpa flamers, a new shooter does not have the muscle memory or the experience to use a Serpa safely when under stress.

These are my opinions and worth what you paid for them.
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Old 05-22-2013, 9:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porkqpine View Post
I EDC a G26 and my wife has a G19. Most AD's occur when re-holstering so make sure you have a Kydex holster, the leather ones, especially the cheap ones and the nylon ones can have the top fold over and actually hit the trigger when you re-holster. Don't go cheap on a holster and don't get a Serpa as your first holster. I have a Foxx Hybrid and a Raven Concealment and am ordering a Com-Tac for range work. Blade-Tec is also a top rated holster. Don't forget a good gun belt like a Looper, Aker or Bullhide belt.

For the Serpa flamers, a new shooter does not have the muscle memory or the experience to use a Serpa safely when under stress.

These are my opinions and worth what you paid for them.


Quality leather holsters have a reinforced (usually by steel) mouth and don't collapse.
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Old 05-22-2013, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shenaniguns View Post
Quality leather holsters have a reinforced (usually by steel) mouth and don't collapse.
Quality is the operative word and I agree that there are great quality leather holsters but new shooters tend to try to save a few bucks and get a cheap holster and belt because they don't know better. Quality leather holsters and quality carry belts are expensive.
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Old 05-22-2013, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Porkqpine View Post
Quality is the operative word and I agree that there are great quality leather holsters but new shooters tend to try to save a few bucks and get a cheap holster and belt because they don't know better. Quality leather holsters and quality carry belts are expensive.

It doesn't change what I said, the post I quoted made no reference to the quality. It's like comparing a Ford Pinto to an S Class Mercedes.
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Old 05-22-2013, 11:23 AM
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I have had a ford pinto....

And I carry uniform serpa and have owb serpa. I like it, but then I have been around long enough to have the muscle memory to keep the trigger finger along frame until on target and ready to shoot. Training and practice, including lots of dry fire.
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Old 05-22-2013, 11:27 AM
Shenaniguns Shenaniguns is offline
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Originally Posted by Kessler View Post
I have had a ford pinto....

And I carry uniform serpa and have owb serpa. I like it, but then I have been around long enough to have the muscle memory to keep the trigger finger along frame until on target and ready to shoot. Training and practice, including lots of dry fire.

And it was banned at FLETC due to well seasoned shooters having their fingers enter the trigger guard when drawing quickly under stress. That's why the trigger finger is a bad idea for releasing the retention device.
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Old 05-24-2013, 2:18 PM
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And it was banned at FLETC due to well seasoned shooters having their fingers enter the trigger guard when drawing quickly under stress. That's why the trigger finger is a bad idea for releasing the retention device.
It's a poor carpenter that blames his tools. There is nothing wrong with the SERPA retention system. Thousands of shooters have drawn from them under stress, while tired and feeling shaggy, and have done so safely. Drawing from a holster is inherently dangerous. I have witnessed far more ND's out of run of the mill holsters, some with zero retention, (dozens) than I ever have out of a SERPA (zero.)

Blaming the holster for user error is no different than blaming gun owners for the actions of nutjobs.
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Old 05-24-2013, 2:21 PM
Shenaniguns Shenaniguns is offline
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It's a poor carpenter that blames his tools. There is nothing wrong with the SERPA retention system. Thousands of shooters have drawn from them under stress, while tired and feeling shaggy, and have done so safely. Drawing from a holster is inherently dangerous. I have witnessed far more ND's out of run of the mill holsters, some with zero retention, (dozens) than I ever have out of a SERPA (zero.)

Blaming the holster for user error is no different than blaming gun owners for the actions of nutjobs.

Then we'll have to agree to disagree, IMO using a trigger finger to release the retention of a holster is a bad idea and asking for trouble.
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Old 05-24-2013, 6:01 PM
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Then we'll have to agree to disagree, IMO using a trigger finger to release the retention of a holster is a bad idea and asking for trouble.
I have mixed feelings. I have 3 Serpas and like them a lot. Until I joined this forum and caught some youtube vids I never would have guessed that some people decided to use the tip of their finger to press the release.

I have to wonder if they don't have their finger curled and ready to slip into the trigger guard with all holsters.

If people don't have their finger properly indexed I can see why a Serpa is more dangerous for them.

Guess it comes down to: if you use the right technique they're perfectly safe. if you use poor technique, nothing is completely safe.
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Old 05-25-2013, 12:34 AM
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Carry a glock 26 every day. That every day has only been for about 2 months now though

I literally have 0% fear of carrying round chambered. Glocks have internal safety's so there is NO WAY it is going off without my finger or something being inside the trigger guard. My holster covers the trigger guard of course so no worries.

At first I was hesitant, but I started carrying cond1 around my house before I actually got my permit and that helped. It really just is a training issue. When you draw the weapon I put my finger on the ejector, when im on target it goes into the trigger guard. Practice at home drawing from your holster, dry firing, and re holstering. It will get easier!
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Old 05-25-2013, 4:58 AM
Tri750 Tri750 is offline
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deSantis pocket holster. Works good in the pants pocket or in the 5.11 holster shirt. (G26) with one in the chamber.
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Old 06-21-2013, 6:56 PM
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You are serious? You heard stories? On the internet? Then get a gun with lots of safeties. Or get a revolver, after all, there are no safeties on double action revolvers... The only way ANY gun can discharge is the MORON attached to the gun pulls the trigger! WTF. Yeah, carry with an empty chamber, and after the perp puts 3 rounds into you while you are screwing around trying to chamber, well, it won't matter then.

You should rethink getting a CCW, well that is if you even get approved. Why don't you ask your issuing agency what they think about unloaded carry?

I carried 1911's from 1968 to 1992, and Glocks ever since then. This is as stupid as asking if you should decock a 1911.
friend in airforce had his 45 go off in his holster and hit his leg due to a malfunction.... so no pulling the trigger isn't the only way but I agree always carry chambered
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Old 06-21-2013, 7:12 PM
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friend in airforce had his 45 go off in his holster and hit his leg due to a malfunction.... so no pulling the trigger isn't the only way but I agree always carry chambered
What was the malfunction?
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