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  #1  
Old 04-29-2013, 9:42 AM
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Question Recoil buffers? Strike Industries Frame Shock Buffer? Do they work... in a Glock?...

I was fairly surprised to see a difference in the slow motion video (the video from the side). The muzzle rise without the buffer is pretty clearly more than with the buffer.

Anybody have thoughts?






FWIW, on my Glock 20 where the front of the slide impacts the frame at full rearward slide travel, the frame is slightly dented/squished there. I'm really not concerned and have no worries that this gun won't last through more 10mm rounds than I can possibly ever afford to shoot, but that still makes me think something like this might have a purpose? I don't really like seeing the plastic showing clear signs of hard impacts, whether or not it means anything (front of the slide, the frame itself) will ever actually fail because of it.

Worth $7 to try it out?
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Old 04-29-2013, 9:42 AM
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21st century snakeoil.
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  #3  
Old 04-29-2013, 9:43 AM
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^^^ I have always felt that way also. You posted way too quickly to have watched even just the slow-mo part of the video though hahaha
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Old 04-29-2013, 11:41 AM
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Shock buffers work best on metal slide/metal frame guns.
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Old 04-29-2013, 11:43 AM
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Don't Glocks already have an "integrated buffer"? I mean, doesn't the whole polymer frame flex a bit after each shot?
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Old 04-29-2013, 11:46 AM
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I thought the locking block was supposed to absorb all the damage (in the event the recoil spring is losing its strength/failing)? Does your locking block look chewed up at all?
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Old 04-29-2013, 11:49 AM
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Unmolested Glock= best configuration

in my opinion.
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Old 04-29-2013, 12:29 PM
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Think this is just a matter of whether its worth $7 to satiate that curiosity you have for this device. Personally, I only have Glock OEM parts INSIDE my Glock. I do configure all my Glocks differently than stock, but still with Glock original parts. For a range gun, I see no problems why you couldn't at least try this out. For a defense gun, you really can't beat all the real-world testing that Glock OEM parts have.
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Old 04-29-2013, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atto View Post
Don't Glocks already have an "integrated buffer"? I mean, doesn't the whole polymer frame flex a bit after each shot?
Yes. I can see where the slide strikes the frame. The is visible 'wear' from those impacts. This is very, very minor, just to be clear. I do NOT see it ever being a long-term problem. However, it is patently clear just by looking at the frame right where the front of the slide (the part that holds the recoil rod) impacts it that it does hit it and it does hit it hard enough to deform the plastic slightly.


Quote:
Originally Posted by deadcoyote View Post
I thought the locking block was supposed to absorb all the damage (in the event the recoil spring is losing its strength/failing)? Does your locking block look chewed up at all?
Hmm thanks for that question. I'll have to look tonight. I don't recall.


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Originally Posted by gorenut View Post
For a defense gun, you really can't beat all the real-world testing that Glock OEM parts have.
Agreed 100%. I wouldn't feel comfortable with this in a defensive gun, primarily because it's right there in the frame under the recoil spring. If it jammed into the spring/slide it could completely stop the gun and you'd have to take it apart to fix it.
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Old 04-29-2013, 12:48 PM
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Recoil buffers are to minimize damage from slide to frame impact. If you gun is functioning properly - meaning that springs are not worn, and you are shooting ammo within SAAMI parameters, then you should not experience slide to frame impact. I don't see a need for buffers and would try to find & fix the root of the problem instead. I don't see how a buffer would reduce recoil.
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Old 04-29-2013, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robert101 View Post
If you gun is functioning properly - meaning that springs are not worn, and you are shooting ammo within SAAMI parameters, then you should not experience slide to frame impact..... I don't see how a buffer would reduce recoil.
That's not true. Most pistols are designed with the slide coming to a hard stop at the extreme back of its travel. One way or another, that's usually the slide impacting the frame either directly or through some sort of a pin or other attachment point. A recoil buffer would reduce felt recoil by extending the force of this impact over a greater period of time, just like a recoil pad on the stock of a rifle or shotgun. You get the same total force, but by slowing it down the feeling isn't as sharp and sudden, which can both decrease felt recoil and assist with recoil control.

Watch the slow-mo footage of all of these factory stock pistols. Starting right off the bat with the Glock 17, you can clearly see that the slide impacts the frame and comes to an immediate halt at the end of its travel. With many of the guns, you can see this sudden impact in the frame and in the shooter's hands. There's a jolt when the round is fired, and a jolt when the slide hits the frame.


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Old 04-29-2013, 12:59 PM
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If it does indeed work, it'll only last for so long. And what's the point of reducing recoil that is already manageable
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Old 04-29-2013, 1:04 PM
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If the gun breaks, I believe glock will warranty it. Recoil buffers tend to cause jams after a while. The polymer gets chewed up into pieces and get stuck inside. A glock is cheap and easy to replace.
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Old 04-29-2013, 1:24 PM
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ON a mildly related side note to my above post. I bought a used full size Glock 31 (357 sig). I then put 8000 rounds through it without replacing the recoil spring. When I went through armorers course I actually learned a good deal about how the .40/.357 pistols really do wear out spring/parts a lot sooner than the 9/.45. I could only assume the 10mm must be a higher wear round as well.

Anyway, Once I understood the concept of the locking block being the fail safe to not chewing up the polymer frame in the event the recoil spring is weak (it's supposed to be replaced every 2500 rounds) I went and checked out my model 31. The locking block looked like an evil beaver had chewed it up. Still, this was my own fault, who knows how many rounds was put through it before I ran my 8k? The gun functioned as designed. $22 for a new locking block and $4 for a new recoil spring and it still ran perfect and it's good to go. Gifted it to my dad once ammo went through the roof.
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Old 04-29-2013, 1:28 PM
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FWIW, my G20 only has 250 rounds through it.
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Old 04-29-2013, 1:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeremyS View Post
FWIW, my G20 only has 250 rounds through it.
A Glock 20 came up in a divorce sale at work 5 years ago for $300 and 5 hi-caps. I passed on it and have been kicking myself ever since.
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Old 04-29-2013, 4:16 PM
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JeremyS, I can tell you that I have 3 1911 guns and there are no impact marks on the frame from the slide stoppage. If you are getting impacts to the frame I do suggest that you change your recoil and hammer spring rates and/or ammo.
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Old 04-29-2013, 5:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robert101 View Post
JeremyS, I can tell you that I have 3 1911 guns and there are no impact marks on the frame from the slide stoppage. If you are getting impacts to the frame I do suggest that you change your recoil and hammer spring rates and/or ammo.
I can tell you that I have a 1911 and many other pistols that also aren't the Glock I'm referring to in this thread . The Glock does not have a spring issue or an ammo issue (or a hammer spring at all, for that matter ). It ejects factory brass the correct distance from the gun, and was designed to run how it is running. For all I know, the very minor dents/squish I can see happened in the first couple of rounds and won't change one tiny little bit over the course of 10,000 rounds.

As mentioned, I'm really not concerned about the gun at all. I have no doubt in my mind whatsoever that it would be totally fine for many many thousands of rounds more than I will ever be able to put through this gun.

The reason I started the topic here was to see if anyone thinks that maybe these buffer things do sometimes work in limiting recoil and/or muzzle flip. In a competition gun, for example, reducing muzzle flip/rise would speed up split times and improve scores. This video certainly seems to show less gun movement with the buffer in place. That's really what I'm interested in. Not so much saving the gun from itself. If pistols required these then they would be designed differently. Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned that I can see where the slide connects with the frame on my Glock, as it seems to have sort of derailed the thread here. I'm not thinking that a buffer like this is a fix to a problem, but maybe a modification that can make a perfectly fine gun better. And before y'all jump on that idea, don't forget that we do it all the time. We take a perfectly good gun and swap sights, triggers, barrels, springs, hammers, we polish parts, etc etc... just like many of us swap filters and springs and wheels and ECU chips and whatever else on perfectly good cars. Just because the gun works like it is supposed to and isn't going to break doesn't mean some little part can't make it just a touch better.


......

While I'm responding, though, I can't help but talk about your 1911's. Not seeing impact marks doesn't mean there aren't impacts. They are supposed to happen, but supposed to happen within a certain level of force so wear and peening, etc, doesn't happen quickly. With a high enough round count you would probably see where the slide and frame connect. First it'll be just something visible in the finish, and then it will be something in the metal. You may see peening at the slide stop, for instance, or the part of the frame where the inside front of the slide typically contacts. Things like this:




^^^ the front-most location circled on the slide and the front-most location on the frame are related, because that section of the slide meets that part of the frame. They do impact and, if they do it enough, it can peen or crack or just keep on truckin'.




^^^ ignore the green parts there. Elsewhere on the front of that section of the frame you can see wear from slide impact.





It should NOT happen for a long time. But there is some round count where you will start to see that sort of wear. It will happen eventually. I do suppose it's perfectly possible to tune your gun to a specific ammo so perfectly that the slide comes all of the way back but doesn't actually touch the frame. You'd have to have perfectly consistent ammo to not err one way or the other, of course, but it's possible. In the real world, your slide is contacting your frame (directly or indirectly through some other metal piece) and it's supposed to do that.
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Old 04-29-2013, 5:26 PM
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FWIW I have yet to see a buffer on a competition gun. Most people tune their spring instead of sticking an extra piece of rubber in.
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Old 04-29-2013, 5:34 PM
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That's true. I wouldn't be running 10mm in competition and, if I was, it would be a specific brand of 10mm and I'd be running a carefully chosen spring with it. Just like I dropped the spring rate on my SP-01 to go with the relatively light loads I shoot for IPSC stuff... STILL... the slide does contact the frame, and if it didn't I'd probably have ejection issues. So maybe there's still something to making that contact just a tad squidgy?....
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Old 04-29-2013, 5:52 PM
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There was a person would ran a test as well on a Glock, might be relevant on finding your answer:http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=729058
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Old 04-29-2013, 6:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeremyS View Post
That's true. I wouldn't be running 10mm in competition and, if I was, it would be a specific brand of 10mm and I'd be running a carefully chosen spring with it. Just like I dropped the spring rate on my SP-01 to go with the relatively light loads I shoot for IPSC stuff... STILL... the slide does contact the frame, and if it didn't I'd probably have ejection issues. So maybe there's still something to making that contact just a tad squidgy?....
Dunno what to tell you. Buffers are by no means a new innovation, and they have yet to catch on probably for good reason. if it offered an advantage for competitors, they probably would have scooped it up years ago : )
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Old 04-29-2013, 6:21 PM
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Why do you think a Glock runs for over 100,000 rounds without at buffer? Duh, it doesn't need one. The plastic frame absorbs the energy. A buffer will short cycle, and jam. I don't have an opinion about this, I have experience. I ran a G21 to over 125,000 rounds without a buffer. How do that work???
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Old 04-29-2013, 6:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zfields View Post
...if it offered an advantage for competitors, they probably would have scooped it up years ago : )
LOL. No doubt.


Quote:
Originally Posted by HighLander51 View Post
Why do you think a Glock runs for over 100,000 rounds without at buffer? Duh, it doesn't need one. ... I ran a G21 to over 125,000 rounds without a buffer.
Not sure how else to say it, so I'll just repeat: I'm really completely and totally not interested in a buffer as some sort of a means to extend the life of the gun. I am not concerned in the least about reliability of the platform without the buffer. In fact, reliability with the buffer is a concern. Without it, no.

The reason I posted this is because I was shocked -- like truly very surprised -- to see an actual, demonstrable difference in how the gun reacts with and without the buffer. In the video, the shooter says that he can't feel a difference in recoil in his hands. The PDF you linked said the same thing in its conclusions ("No significant difference in the felt recoil was recorded between all 3 buffers."). BUT... the video does show a pretty large difference in muzzle climb. That was really surprising to me! Not sure I would ever really consider running one, but seeing an actual difference took me a couple steps away from the straight-up snake oil belief on the genre
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