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  #1  
Old 11-14-2007, 9:56 AM
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Default DOJ CLARIFICATION

All,

I am looking for persons to speak with about an ongoing lawsuit against the Department of Justice -- Firearms Bureau for issues relating to the "assault weapon" laws and lack of guidance from the regulating authority. Specifically, persons who:

1. Have requested clarification from the California Department of Justice on any issues relating to the definition of an "assault weapon" and did not receive the clarification necessary to determine whether a certain firearm is an "assault weapon;"
2. Have been arrested for possession of any device alleged to be an "assault weapons."
3. Have had their firearms seized because law enforcement alleged the firearms to be "assault weapons," but who have not been prosecuted for "assault weapons" or have had their case subsequently dismissed.

If you are, or know, someone in the above referenced circumstances, please contact me ASAP at the following:

Jason Davis
Trutanich Michel, LLP
180 East Ocean Blvd
Suite 200
Long Beach, CA 90802
562-216-4458
jdavis@tmllp.com

We have received a number of inquiries about donations to this litigation. All persons wishing to donate to our efforts may do so by sending payments to the address above. Make checks payable to the "NRA Civil Rights Defense Fund" and forward the payment to the address above, attn: NRA DEFENSE FUND. For credit card payments, please contact me at the above number for instructions. These funds will be used to provide and ensure legal and financial assistance to selected individuals and organizations defending their right to keep and bear arms. They will also be used to sponsor legal research and education on a wide variety of gun-related issues, including the meaning of the Second Amendment and nature of the right to keep and bear arms provision in state constitutions. The Fund is a charitable/educational entity which has been granted tax exempt status under Section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code. Donations are tax-deductible for Federal income tax purposes. We will forward them to the NRA in bulk and request that these funds be used to support the California litigation.

And, as always, thank you for your support and encouragement.

Jason

Last edited by cathog; 11-14-2007 at 9:09 PM..
  #2  
Old 11-14-2007, 10:04 AM
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I'm making this post "sticky", to keep it at the top of the forum.

John
  #3  
Old 11-14-2007, 10:08 AM
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This is going to be a GREAT thread!!!
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  #4  
Old 11-14-2007, 10:09 AM
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AWESOME!!!
  #5  
Old 11-14-2007, 10:13 AM
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Yes! Go get 'em!
  #6  
Old 11-14-2007, 10:17 AM
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Accountability, at last!

Will you let us know when AM's depo is set?
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  #7  
Old 11-14-2007, 11:15 AM
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Good for you guys, Hope you really give it to them in the bad place. Are you taking donations?
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  #8  
Old 11-14-2007, 11:39 AM
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am I the only one that doesn't know what this is about?
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  #9  
Old 11-14-2007, 12:26 PM
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This is great, please tell me if you are taking donations. I want to contribute.
  #10  
Old 11-14-2007, 1:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PanzerAce View Post
am I the only one that doesn't know what this is about?
Panzer look at the bottom for who asked for the info. Sounds like someone wants to go after DOJ BoF for not doing their job and passing it off on the "58 DA's blahblahblah" nonsense
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  #11  
Old 11-14-2007, 1:38 PM
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Go get em Tiger!
  #12  
Old 11-14-2007, 2:25 PM
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Incoming. Voicemail left, email with list incoming.
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Last edited by bwiese; 11-14-2007 at 3:22 PM..
  #13  
Old 11-14-2007, 2:33 PM
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It looks like war has been declared.
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  #14  
Old 11-14-2007, 2:34 PM
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Announcement posted for greater coverage.
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  #15  
Old 11-14-2007, 2:47 PM
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Mr Davis... I have contacted you twice in the last 2 months or so... without result. maybe your vaicemail is not working. I can be reached at 209-544-1911 after 4:00 pm, weekdays.
I have a very close association to the issue you describe, as I think you already know.
  #16  
Old 11-14-2007, 3:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CRTguns View Post
Mr Davis... I have contacted you twice in the last 2 months or so... without result. maybe your vaicemail is not working. I can be reached at 209-544-1911 after 4:00 pm, weekdays.
I have a very close association to the issue you describe, as I think you already know.
For best results FAX in.....or cert mail in specifics...dates/times/names/case numbers...of instances......

They don't like to talk specs over the phone or email..........

SPG......SAIGA guys....get your info to them....

Anyone that has phoned in w/ names and times and what was said could be used......

Just the facts.....no emotions....
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Last edited by PIRATE14; 11-14-2007 at 3:59 PM..
  #17  
Old 11-14-2007, 3:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AfricanHunter View Post
Good for you guys, Hope you really give it to them in the bad place. Are you taking donations?
Have you ever known a lawyer that won't take any donations...........
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  #18  
Old 11-14-2007, 5:25 PM
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NICE!

I have not requested any clarifications because all such recent attempts have returned "ambiguous".

Does this mean it is to our advantage at this time to renew efforts to obtain information? Ping the DOJ incessantly for clarifications surrounding the "assault weapons" issue via certified mail?
  #19  
Old 11-14-2007, 5:27 PM
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I'm in for at least 1 case of beer when <we> win
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  #20  
Old 11-14-2007, 5:42 PM
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Not that I really have anything to help at this moment, but is there a dead line that these information needs to be received? Just thought others may want to know as well.
  #21  
Old 11-14-2007, 5:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CWM4A1 View Post
Not that I really have anything to help at this moment, but is there a dead line that these information needs to be received? Just thought others may want to know as well.
It's always ASAP, of course. I think they need to know the number and details of the various situations to get a handle on things...

I've given them a bunch of info given I have my 'ear to the ground', but I don't want my submissions to inhibit anyone else from giving info.
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  #22  
Old 11-14-2007, 7:39 PM
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PM sent, I think I'm in group 1 of the list.
  #23  
Old 11-14-2007, 8:07 PM
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PM sent.

If you have the email address I can forward the correspondence directly to the Lawyers.
  #24  
Old 11-14-2007, 9:47 PM
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Finally! This is Awsome!

I will call you tomorrow.

Regards,
Addax
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  #25  
Old 11-14-2007, 10:31 PM
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Exclamation CATHOG~ PLEASE KEEP US UPDATED

CATHOG~

Please provide updates when possible. I understand the sensitivity of some legal cases, but to keep people interested and donating we need to be "thrown a bone" occasionally.

For many people, times are tight but still feel this is a very important fight. People want to know where and to what their donations are going towards.
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Last edited by Santa Cruz Armory; 11-14-2007 at 10:34 PM..
  #26  
Old 11-14-2007, 11:33 PM
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I belive you guys have everything I have at the moment, will check for any new additions. Go get 'em
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  #27  
Old 11-15-2007, 6:29 AM
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Thumbs up

This is the best news I've heard this year. Let the beat down commence.
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  #28  
Old 11-15-2007, 6:33 AM
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Will we FINALLY get some answers. Some concrete answers
Ohh please send in the info if you guys have it ... this will benefit EVERYONE
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  #29  
Old 11-15-2007, 7:18 AM
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beginning of the end of PRK
  #30  
Old 11-15-2007, 7:58 AM
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TMMPL, you have email from me. I sent two letters and made one phone call.

1st letter:
Asked about clarification on the YHM Phantom Muzzle Break. Asked if an off list lower with a Prince 50 lock was ok. Asked if a 22lr semi-automatic rifle was ok being built on a off list lower with pistol grip, detachable magazine, and flash suppressor. I received no response.

2nd letter:
I asked for a clarification on the loaded rifle definition. I received a response implying it was illegal to have a loaded magazine in the vicinity of a rifle when transporting it. I also got the typical 59 DAs language.

Phone call:
Told I was allowed to build my own rifle but it could not be an AW. I needed to download the AW guide on their website for guidance.
  #31  
Old 11-15-2007, 9:06 AM
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Thumbs up

Email en route.

Thank you.
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  #32  
Old 11-15-2007, 9:52 AM
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Default MonsterMan Grip Opinion attempts

Do you guys want to know my attempts to get an "opinion" for my grip from CA DOJ BOF? It has been an ongoing process since May of 2006. A year and a half of trying and still no cooperation or answer!

1st attempt:
Sent a picture of grip on rifle to Ignatius Chin and spoke with him for about 1/2 hour talking about it and various other things. He told me it was a "protruding grip". I replied that it did not allow for a "pistol style grasp" and it was not a "pistol grip". He then just told me "it was up to the 58 DA's to decide".

2nd attempt:
I contacted TMLLP and they helped me put a letter together requesting that the DOJ give clarification on this matter. The DOJ's response was "we no longer give "individuals" opinion letters and we now only deal with Manufacturers and Law Enforcement".

3rd attempt:
After a lot of working the phones (and the help of TMLLP) I got a major Manufacturer to build a CA compliant rifle with the MMG on it and send it in to the CA DOJ. But before they could send it, the DOJ told them that they no longer give opinions to Manufacturers. The DOJ told them that they were now going to put together a "brochure" and outline what is and is not legal in the state and that the Manufacturers would simply have to refer to that "brochure" and they would not have to submit the rifle to the DOJ for clarification as to whether the gun in question was CA legal or not. Needless to say, I lost the cooperation of that Manufacturer.

4th attempt:
I called the Los Angeles District attorneys office and spoke with an investigator there for quite a while and he told me that I would have to ask the DOJ about the legalities of the grip. I told him the story about my attempts to get them to give an opinion on my product and he said he couldn't help me.


5th attempt:
This is an ongoing attempt. I have called on my own many times throughout this time and asked DOJ about my grip and they act like they have never had the opportunity to review the grip and give a clarification on it. I ask if they know about it and they reply that they do, but they can't comment on its legality. They just say that their department has not approved any off-list devices. I ask if they plan on reviewing it and they say "NO"! It's funny, early on their was some phone staffers there that were recommending my grip because of there push of the "fixed mag" Memo that was out. But now it has switched to a firm "we have not approved anything" and thats it.


So yeah, I have had some experiences trying to get the DOJ to give clarification on these issues. They will not cooperate. It's not like they have not had the opportunity to give their opinion.

I know I don't need their permission to sell my product. I know it is legal. The only reasons I want to give their opinion is to rest the minds of the gun owner who has purchased my product and the gun owner who is on the fence about the issue. Also, it would save a lot of grief if for some reason a uninformed LEO makes a wrongful arrest because he saw a "Black Rifle" in someones possession.

Here is the letter that was sent to the DOJ asking for clarification on the MMG. It was never answered.


Again, I want to thank TMLLP for all of their help and guidance. They are really great guys.

Clinton
MonsterMan Grips
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  #33  
Old 11-15-2007, 2:33 PM
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Does anybody have a copy of Evan's "approval letter" for his welded magwell on-list rifles? I'd like to see that. I have also decided to start a DOJ letter writing campaign myself, although from what Clinton has shown above it seems that it will be less than satisfying. I'll do it anyway.
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  #34  
Old 11-15-2007, 2:41 PM
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Here is the Letter that Evans Gunsmithing received from Iggy at the DOJ.

Hope it helps you.
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Old 11-15-2007, 3:46 PM
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Thanks. Man, what a bunch of gobbledegook in that approval letter. I just looked all through the Assault Weapons Identification guide and I can't find mention of a "Stoner X-15 series" rifle anywhere
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  #36  
Old 11-15-2007, 3:49 PM
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I think the DOJ does not want to give opinions now. AM gave her opinion about OLL's and it opened the flood gates. So this is a good thing to ask them. Everyone should be writing the DOJ for their opinions. Send it certified mail followed up with a fax and phone call. If you can afford it, on a Law firms letter head.

After all, they are government employees and work for the tax payer, right?
  #37  
Old 11-15-2007, 3:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shark92651 View Post
Thanks. Man, what a bunch of gobbledegook in that approval letter. I just looked all through the Assault Weapons Identification guide and I can't find mention of a "Stoner X-15 series" rifle anywhere
I mentioned this earlier, but it seems the DOJ is still hung up on the whole "series" thing.

Here's a letter a guy wrote a year ago asking about a Saiga..
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthrea...ight=saiga+doj

Quote:
Dear Mr. Chow,

Your request for information has been received and reviewed. All "AK
series" weapons are banned in California regardless on make and model.
Please do not hesitate to contact the Firearms Division at (916)
263-4887 if you have any further questions or concerns.

Sincerely,

Nate Barrell, Analyst
Firearms Division

>>> Sally Carney 09/13/06 2:14 PM >>>


>>> <manwah@gmail.com> 6/29/2006 8:06 PM >>>
Below is the result of your feedback form. It was submitted by
(manwah@gmail.com) on Friday, June 30, 2006 at 03:06:16
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Name: Kevin Chow
Telephone:
feedback: Department of the Attorney General:

I am considering the purchase of a European American Armory Saiga
7.62x39mm rifle but would first like to ensure that it is legal for me
to do so as a resident of the state of California.

The rifle in question:

EAA European American Armory Corp.
402 Richard Road
Rockledge, FL. 32955

Make: Saiga 16.5" Barrel, Sporting Rifle
Caliber: 7.62x39mm
Pistol Grip: NO. Hunting stock only.
Bayonet Lug: NO.
Detachable Magazine: YES, 10RND.
Flash Suppressor: NO.
Threaded Barrel: NO.
Action: Semi-automatic, gas-piston

The Saiga rifle in question was manufactured by Izmash and imported
through EAA Corp. It is NOT imported by Kalashnikov USA, and therefore
is not listed under the Roberti-Roos list.

Nor does this rifle have the characteristics necessary to be deemed
"assault weapon" under CA law.

Then, is this rifle legal for me to purchase and own in california?

And, if it is, will I be allowed to register it should it one day be
added to the Roberti-Roos list?

Sincerely,
Kevin Chow

ps: I am of course a law-abiding citizen and there is nothing that
prevents me from being able to legally own any otherwise
California-legal firearm.

Someone should send them a letter saying, "Let it go.. live in the NOW man!"
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  #38  
Old 11-15-2007, 4:16 PM
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Emailed them regarding my SAIGA rifle.
  #39  
Old 11-15-2007, 4:21 PM
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I e-mailed them as well
  #40  
Old 11-15-2007, 4:29 PM
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vf111 vf111 is offline
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Donation coming via US Mail.....
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