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  #1  
Old 04-27-2013, 1:48 PM
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Default Register or not

Just came back from the range(no names), had an interesting conversation with one of the rangers ; my question was: if the registration is voted in and I bring my guns will you check? He answered we won't but if cops decide to check they will set up a check point outside the gate and will ask you if you have guns and if they are registered. You need to answer, right?
So if push comes to shove, what will you do ? Just curious.....
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  #2  
Old 04-27-2013, 1:51 PM
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I'm just there to get ammo, gonna need a warrant to search my truck.
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  #3  
Old 04-27-2013, 1:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philobeddoe View Post
I'm just there to get ammo, gonna need a warrant to search my truck.
Yep!!
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Old 04-27-2013, 1:56 PM
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I see no point in having something I can't use or be arrested for. I am a law abiding citizen and if the law says I have to then I will. I won't like but the alternative of me getting butt raped in prison is not an option for me.
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Old 04-27-2013, 2:07 PM
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Just to clarify, he said if the cop will ask you do you have guns in your car, you need to say yes if you have them. And then next question is do you have them registered?
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Old 04-27-2013, 2:09 PM
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Another thread to reassure me to leave ca.
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  #7  
Old 04-27-2013, 2:14 PM
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I'm a little confused, I thought we didn't need to register the long guns we already owned, we just have to register going forward after the date the law is enacted?
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  #8  
Old 04-27-2013, 2:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Gavelek View Post
Just to clarify, he said if the cop will ask you do you have guns in your car, you need to say yes if you have them. And then next question is do you have them registered?
Why do I need to say yes?
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Old 04-27-2013, 2:23 PM
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Sb 47

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=737510
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  #10  
Old 04-27-2013, 2:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Gavelek View Post
Just to clarify, he said if the cop will ask you do you have guns in your car, you need to say yes if you have them. And then next question is do you have them registered?
I don't have any guns and I'm just there to buy ammo. If I'm not being detained then no further questions, and if I am being detained ... well, no further questions.
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  #11  
Old 04-27-2013, 2:27 PM
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*sigh* yet another reason I want to leave CA. Born and raised here, but Colorado looks mighty nice.
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  #12  
Old 04-27-2013, 3:22 PM
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Nowhere is safe anymore. Colorado, soon to be Texas? This is a fight for the ages.
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  #13  
Old 04-27-2013, 3:58 PM
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Illegals are the new push to communistusize red states into blue. Revolution will be the only way & a lot of blood will be spilled to turn the blue back to red!
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  #14  
Old 04-27-2013, 4:06 PM
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Will the cops doing the check points be wearing blue helmets?
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  #15  
Old 04-27-2013, 4:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate View Post
Why do I need to say yes?
Exactly.
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  #16  
Old 04-27-2013, 4:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philobeddoe View Post
I'm just there to get ammo, gonna need a warrant to search my truck.
If they were being stubborn, could they invoke "probable cause" to search your truck without a warrant saying you acted "suspiciously" and were in fact entering a gun range where people shoot guns, so the assumption is that you are transporting weapons of some kind?

I'm not trying to defend anyone or crucify anyone... I'm just working thru possible scenarios that could come up. I think that police officers can search a vehicle without a warrant if they have probable cause of things like drugs or alcohol. What's to stop them from invoking this same line of reasoning for searching for guns in a car going to a gun range?

Everyone has seen those check point videos on youtube where the police just assume that you will answer anything and every question they ask, and will detain you with no charges if you don't, arresting you simply because you refused to answer their questions... They appear very confrontational as far as the citizen being detained is concerned, but when you think about the big picture of what's going on, its pretty frightening and seems to fly in the face of everything the constitution was written to protect us from.

There are so many avenues that can be used against a citizen to force compliance such as "Contempt", "Obstruction", "Resisting" and on and on... all mechanisms put in place to force compliance, rather than protect rights. I understand they have a very very difficult job to do and no one has more respect for law enforcement than I do, but it's just so frustrating that the approach to reduction in crime is to make everyone a criminal so they don't have to differentiate.

*sad that I have to consider such things now and confused by the irony that law abiding citizens are running scared, and criminals in possession of guns are laughing their asses off*

Last edited by Feanor; 04-27-2013 at 4:55 PM..
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  #17  
Old 04-27-2013, 5:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Gavelek View Post
Just to clarify, he said if the cop will ask you do you have guns in your car, you need to say yes if you have them. And then next question is do you have them registered?
Don't talk to cops. Nothing in SB 47 requires, ..."you need to say yes."

You have 5th Amendment rights. "Do you have guns in the car" is a fishing expedition. STFU!

If you say "no" and you do, you've lied to law enforcement and are on the hook.
If you say yes, they ask more questions, and because you are now Chatty Cathy, you answer.
"What types"? Are they registered? May I see them? It's just routine". They also may have the right to safety inspect the weapons and the transport conditions.

Nothing in this legislation requires you to say anything to the police. It CAN'T.
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  #18  
Old 04-27-2013, 5:25 PM
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I tell you honestly, if I am at the gate with my trunk full of guns and the cop stops me asking me do you have any guns...I will say yes... and what follow next I don;t know, that's why I am trying to ask you guys for your opinion on different scenarios...and then everything comes back to the issue should we register or not...
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Old 04-27-2013, 5:56 PM
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Make it featureless. No registration required. No evil features allowed but no bullet button!

EDIT: It looks like SB 374 requires that I still register.

Before:


After:


I just did this last night.
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  #20  
Old 04-27-2013, 5:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feanor View Post
If they were being stubborn, could they invoke "probable cause" to search your truck without a warrant saying you acted "suspiciously" and were in fact entering a gun range where people shoot guns, so the assumption is that you are transporting weapons of some kind?
No. If so, everyone in the parking lot at a strip mall containing a shooting range or gun store is at risk. Additionally, there is no crime in simply transporting firearms in a legal manner. So simply being where firearms are transported is not sufficient cause to search for illegal arms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Feanor View Post
I'm not trying to defend anyone or crucify anyone... I'm just working thru possible scenarios that could come up. I think that police officers can search a vehicle without a warrant if they have probable cause of things like drugs or alcohol. What's to stop them from invoking this same line of reasoning for searching for guns in a car going to a gun range?
Jeez. Searching a car for drugs or alcohol usually starts with the cops seeing a driver violating basic driving statutes...swerving, unsafe lane change, speed. the stop comes from that, and the search comes from talking to totally f'd up drivers or seeing stuff open in the car. "Is that a bong?" [/quote]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Feanor View Post
Everyone has seen those check point videos on youtube where the police just assume that you will answer anything and every question they ask, and will detain you with no charges if you don't, arresting you simply because you refused to answer their questions... They appear very confrontational as far as the citizen being detained is concerned, but when you think about the big picture of what's going on, its pretty frightening and seems to fly in the face of everything the constitution was written to protect us from.
I don't live in YouTube world, so I don't worry about it. The reality (pun intended) is that very few of the positive interactions with law enforcement are posted simply because they weren't what the filmers had on their agenda.

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Originally Posted by Feanor View Post
There are so many avenues that can be used against a citizen to force compliance such as "Contempt", "Obstruction", "Resisting" and on and on... all mechanisms put in place to force compliance, rather than protect rights.
An officer cannot arrest you for contempt, unless it is contempt of court. And then, only the court can levy the charge. In fact, your free speech rights allow you to be contemptuous of an officer if that is your opinion. Not speaking to police, contrary to TV shows, is not obstruction of justice, especially when it is guaranteed in your 5th Amendment. Think about that. If not talking to the police is guaranteed in the Constitution, then not talking to them can't be a local chargeable offense for obstruction, right? Resisting, is not an offense, it is to some, a duty. Resisting arrest is a crime, but you have to have been arrested before you can resist (resisting arrest is not a duty).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Feanor View Post
I understand they have a very very difficult job to do and no one has more respect for law enforcement than I do, but it's just so frustrating that the approach to reduction in crime is to make everyone a criminal so they don't have to differentiate.
Your comments indicate little respect for law enforcement and a fundamental fear that television and the Internet are real.

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Originally Posted by Feanor View Post
*sad that I have to consider such things now and confused by the irony that law abiding citizens are running scared, and criminals in possession of guns are laughing their asses off*
This is important. It is sad that we are pushed to the point of this level of confusion. But there is so much FUD and misinformation out there that it is almost impossible to fathom. Rely on fundamentals: have I done anything wrong? Do I want to be cordial and seen as supportive of law enforcement? Is it possible to have my cordial and helpful statements taken out of context and used against me in a court of law? Do I have the right to remain silent? Do I have the right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness? If you do, then act accordingly and move on.

Cheers,

JR
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  #21  
Old 04-27-2013, 6:42 PM
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Originally Posted by POLICESTATE View Post
I'm a little confused, I thought we didn't need to register the long guns we already owned, we just have to register going forward after the date the law is enacted?
Not if a certain proposed law passes. If Im not mistaken, any semi auto would have to be registered.
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Old 04-27-2013, 6:45 PM
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Originally Posted by ethik226 View Post
Make it featureless. No registration required. No evil features allowed but no bullet button!

Before:


After:


I just did this last night.
SB 47... Any semi auto with a detachable magazine will have to be registered. Featureless or not.

I hope Im wrong It looks like it might be an "AW" if it has a detachable mag AND just ONE feature. So maybe the "featureless" builds are still good to go.
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Last edited by blazeaglory; 04-27-2013 at 6:48 PM..
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Old 04-27-2013, 8:05 PM
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Not to mention the fact that the po-po cannot just setup a roadblock in front of a gun range to check for weapons(or anything else)... even a sobriety check point wouldn't allow them to just search cars nor would it allow them to stop every car.
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Old 04-27-2013, 8:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gavelek View Post
I tell you honestly, if I am at the gate with my trunk full of guns and the cop stops me asking me do you have any guns...I will say yes... and what follow next I don;t know, that's why I am trying to ask you guys for your opinion on different scenarios...and then everything comes back to the issue should we register or not...
You're driving at 90 in a 55 zone when CHP pulls you over.
Officer: "do you know how fast you were going?
You respond:
A. "I was locked at 90, Officer." Honesty is the best policy, right?
B. "Probably about 75, Sir." Acknowledgment of human error is always helpful. And 75 is better than 90.
C. "How can I help you today, Officer?"

In answers A&B, you have confessed to a violation. You have just written your ticket.
In C, you have responded to the inquiry without incriminating yourself.

"Do you have guns in the car?
A. "Yes, and they are unregistered assault weapons."
B. "No. And you can't search my car without a warrant".
C. "Why have you stopped me today, Officer?" Followed by, "Am I free to go?"

Two issues:
1. What to say to cops. You should follow the law. The law says you don't have to respond. The law does not require you to answer. Don't confess to crimes.
2. Should we register or not. You should follow the law. The law seems to allow you to change the weapon to featureless or requires you to register it. Don't commit crimes.

JR
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Old 04-27-2013, 9:02 PM
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Originally Posted by POLICESTATE View Post
I'm a little confused, I thought we didn't need to register the long guns we already owned, we just have to register going forward after the date the law is enacted?
That's accurate for current statutes effective 1/1/2014. Pending legislation (SB 47), if enacted would require retroactive registration.

JR
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Old 04-27-2013, 9:03 PM
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If the law requires them to be registered then that is what I will do.
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Old 04-27-2013, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Dvrjon View Post
That's accurate for current statutes effective 1/1/2014. Pending legislation (SB 47), if enacted would require retroactive registration.

JR
**** that! If everything works out over the next couple of months I should be gone from this state by then.

I should point out that I'm not fleeing California because of the gun laws, though they do factor in among a number of other things which include cost of living, increasing prices, increasing taxes, increasing regulation and BS. If housing costs could be cut in half I'd hold out longer, but damn it's just too expensive to live here. And ugh, they get ya coming and going AND in between!
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Old 04-27-2013, 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by POLICESTATE View Post
**** that! If everything works out over the next couple of months I should be gone from this state by then.

I should point out that I'm not fleeing California because of the gun laws, though they do factor in among a number of other things which include cost of living, increasing prices, increasing taxes, increasing regulation and BS. If housing costs could be cut in half I'd hold out longer, but damn it's just too expensive to live here. And ugh, they get ya coming and going AND in between!
I call that re-grouping to continue fighting the good fight
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Old 04-28-2013, 5:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Dvrjon View Post
No. If so, everyone in the parking lot at a strip mall containing a shooting range or gun store is at risk. Additionally, there is...
If my comments gave the impression that I lack respect of law enforcement than that was a false impression driven more by my sense of intimidation than contempt. For me, a situation like being stopped at a check point that involves the serious, and to many, confusing issues of registered assault weapons is a personally anxiety filled notion.

If an officer asked me if I had weapons in the car I would say "yes" and things would progress from there for good or ill. I couldn't respond with a diverting answer, and even less so with silence. I know many here who might be far more assertive and mentally disciplined than I will wonder at that, but one must also understand that instructing someone by saying, "don't answer the question, or just keep your mouth shut" is to me like telling someone to not have stage fright, when they have it.

And that's an interesting side note because I can get up in front of a hundred people for a piano recital without feeling a twitch, but then cave in the face of law enforcement in a cold sweat when I have done absolutely nothing wrong. And despite YouTube videos and all other media I think THAT reaction to police is more common than one of emotional steadiness, and intellectual calm. In that way I know it's my own personal failing and why scenarios like this one for me always take on a worst case tone

But I appreciate your information on the different scenarios, it's the kind of experience and data we all need to work thru the issues in a positive way when confronted with situations as in the original post.

Last edited by Feanor; 04-28-2013 at 5:56 AM..
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  #30  
Old 04-28-2013, 6:43 AM
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Instead of thinking what could happen if the bills are passed, we should be working on our reps to not pass such bills. Letter, phone calls, faxes twlling them where you stand.
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Old 04-28-2013, 7:11 AM
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Originally Posted by manchacho View Post
*sigh* yet another reason I want to leave CA. Born and raised here, but Colorado looks mighty nice.
You mean the same Colorado that is considering a similar ban on shotguns, including pumps? Face it, the problem is everywhere.
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Old 04-28-2013, 7:16 AM
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Originally Posted by zoid52 View Post
Illegals are the new push to communistusize red states into blue. Revolution will be the only way & a lot of blood will be spilled to turn the blue back to red!
Go for it dude, I will read about you on the 6 o'clock news.
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Old 04-28-2013, 7:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Feanor View Post
If my comments gave the impression that I lack respect of law enforcement than that was a false impression driven more by my sense of intimidation than contempt.
My apologies. I didn't mean to bust your chops on that. My point is that the vast majority of law enforcement folks on the street are positive, knowledgeable and honest people. We want to be supportive, but we should not be intimidated into talking. Now you have a new tool in your bag; you don't have to speak. Of course, based on backgrounds and exposure, we all respond differently.

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Originally Posted by Feanor View Post
And that's an interesting side note because I can get up in front of a hundred people for a piano recital without feeling a twitch....
And I can get on the same stage without stage fright. But if I'm there for a piano recital, I'm not stepping out, because I've got no tools, or even a tool bag. I'm going to immediately ask, "am I free to go, now?" And get the heck out of there.
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Old 04-28-2013, 7:46 AM
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It is not against the law (Penal Code) to be verbally evasive or lie to street Cops.

It is against the law to lie to Federal Investigators; ask Martha Stewart about that one.

'Do you have any Guns in your car'?.....No. Am I under arrest officer? Am I free to go?

No officer, I do not consent to a search; am I free to go now?

Learn to say this.
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Old 04-28-2013, 7:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gavelek View Post
Just to clarify, he said if the cop will ask you do you have guns in your car, you need to say yes if you have them.
No you don't. You are not legally obligated to answer the question if they are not investigating a crime. It also can be argued that you are not obligated to tell the truth if you do answer (again, if they are not investigating a crime).

Now, the fact that you are entering a shooting range could be used by the cops to argue that they articulated that you had a gun in the car. If they do, they'll probably lose in court, but it's going to cost you legal fees to find out.
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Old 04-28-2013, 7:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Sheepdog1968 View Post
If the law requires them to be registered then that is what I will do.
You should change your name to just "sheep" :P
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Old 04-28-2013, 7:55 AM
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We are definitely entering a new period when guns are going to be illegal,
one way or another, you'll need some guns registered for show and a cache that is hidden, this is unconstitutional, and therefore no law at all, which justifies your cause, but you'll still pay if you get caught,
you may need that cache later so think again about turning in your guns
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Old 04-28-2013, 8:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Dvrjon View Post
You're driving at 90 in a 55 zone when CHP pulls you over.
Officer: "do you know how fast you were going?
You respond:
A. "I was locked at 90, Officer." Honesty is the best policy, right?
B. "Probably about 75, Sir." Acknowledgment of human error is always helpful. And 75 is better than 90.
C. "How can I help you today, Officer?"

In answers A&B, you have confessed to a violation. You have just written your ticket.
In C, you have responded to the inquiry without incriminating yourself.

"Do you have guns in the car?
A. "Yes, and they are unregistered assault weapons."
B. "No. And you can't search my car without a warrant".
C. "Why have you stopped me today, Officer?" Followed by, "Am I free to go?"

Two issues:
1. What to say to cops. You should follow the law. The law says you don't have to respond. The law does not require you to answer. Don't confess to crimes.
2. Should we register or not. You should follow the law. The law seems to allow you to change the weapon to featureless or requires you to register it. Don't commit crimes.

JR
This
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Old 04-28-2013, 8:04 AM
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Would it be legal to remove gas systems and have a "bolt action" AR/AK? No registration??
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Old 04-28-2013, 8:12 AM
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Originally Posted by gwgn02 View Post
You should change your name to just "sheep" :P
Bs. Big talker. I have a state license that I need to earn a living. These are routinely revoked or suspended for things like DUI.

My license is good only here.

I lose that license, I lose my house, and everything else. It sucks here. I don't want to register. But I did last time and if I have to, I will again.

You go ahead and move your weapons out of state, that's real brave, or hide them and never shoot them or even tell anyone you have them, again, very brave.

I doubt that you intend to keep weapons that the state requires registration of and continue shooting and transporting them without registering. If you do, kudos, that can indeed appear to be brave.

You have no business calling someone a sheep over this issue.
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