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  #1  
Old 04-26-2013, 9:11 PM
Aaelen Aaelen is offline
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Default Understanding if and when this guy broke the law if in California

I'm struggling with understanding something...
On this video: HOW TO STOP A MASSACRE

If this were to have happened in California, at what stage does the guy with the CCW break the law, if any?
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  #2  
Old 04-26-2013, 10:37 PM
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IMO...
Only one action was questionable, but beyond that everything else would have been legal under CA laws.

The questionable action...
The last shot, out the door at the two suspects running away.

Depending on which CA LE agency and/or DA's Office is investigating the shooting would determine if any charges would result in that questionable action.

I know of a few CA LEOs and ADAs, in the IE, that would let it slide with no charges and give the CCW holder an attaboy.
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  #3  
Old 04-26-2013, 11:02 PM
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I remember when that first happened

You're talking a slippery slope as far as when he might have broken a California law

To some, firing at the suspects while they were fleeing could've been a problem for him, while, others could content that the threat of them turning and firing on him still existed

Just because they are heading toward a door, doesn't mean they couldn't turn and fire

The fact that he didn't hit either of the suspects as they exited the door makes it somewhat moot...had he hit a suspect, now it gets cloudy whether or not lives were still in danger...of course, this didn't get much media when it happened, showing the advantages of armed citizens doesn't sit well with the mainstream
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Old 04-27-2013, 1:29 AM
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Fearless old timer with balls of steel. Horrifically bad tactics, lucky the bad guys got spooked and retreated, but fearless and generally awesome response to these scumbags.
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Old 04-27-2013, 8:15 AM
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Yeah - I was most curious about shooting when they ran. I was pretty confident that last shot was a bad idea. My best practice understanding is to stop shooting when they stop being a threat, but that doesn't specifically mean what the law says.
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Old 04-27-2013, 8:39 AM
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I think that shooting at them when they were fleeing sets you up for potential charges. It also has the potential to hit bystanders.
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Old 04-27-2013, 2:04 PM
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Not a massacre, an armed robbery. While it certainly had the potential to devolve into one of those herd everybody in the back and execute them routines, it's disingenuous to call this a massacre attempt.

If it were indeed a mass mall/school type shooting, then I'd say the need to stop the very dangerous perpetrator would over-ride normal protocols and justify a shot in the back of a fleeing felon. Not here.

When this first came out, the main thing I noticed was how gramps managed to miss his man at just past arm's length. Dude needs a laser!
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Old 04-27-2013, 11:09 PM
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It isn't a laser he needs, it's training. With his obvious lack of trigger control...it looked like he was trying to throw the bullets at them...a laser wouldn't have helped.

The two good things about this is that he was willing to take action and that he was aware of what was behind his targets...as it was likely in greater danger than the BGs
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Old 04-27-2013, 11:13 PM
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When it's your life on the line who cares about breaking the law. This is the judgement you would have to use.
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Old 04-27-2013, 11:45 PM
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I agree on a couple of things, they were retreating, the threat was over, time to stand down. His lack of training was evident in the way he fired his weapon to his lack of control. Having said that, being 59 years old, when an emergency arises, with some older men or women a fatherly or motherly instinct takes over, the adrenaline rush which most people can't control causes us to act first and think later.
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Old 04-28-2013, 6:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zedrek View Post
I think that shooting at them when they were fleeing sets you up for potential charges.
True, but the outcome will depend on the charges and the jury.
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Old 04-28-2013, 2:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnthomas View Post
I agree on a couple of things, they were retreating, the threat was over, time to stand down. His lack of training was evident in the way he fired his weapon to his lack of control. Having said that, being 59 years old, when an emergency arises, with some older men or women a fatherly or motherly instinct takes over, the adrenaline rush which most people can't control causes us to act first and think later.
While we can all agree that his weapon presentation/marksmanship/tactics left a lot to be desired, it should be recognized above all else that he decided to fight back and engage his enemy when everyone else was cowering like sheep.
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Old 04-28-2013, 2:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnthomas View Post
I agree on a couple of things, they were retreating, the threat was over, time to stand down. His lack of training was evident in the way he fired his weapon to his lack of control. Having said that, being 59 years old, when an emergency arises, with some older men or women a fatherly or motherly instinct takes over, the adrenaline rush which most people can't control causes us to act first and think later.
While we can all agree that his weapon presentation/marksmanship/tactics left a lot to be desired, it should be recognized above all else that he decided to fight back and engage his enemy when everyone else was cowering like sheep.

Often audacity and surprise will make up for skill, as seen here.
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Old 04-28-2013, 2:52 PM
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First it is easy to arm chair quarterback.
Second I question the lack of muzzle flash or recoil on the out the door and shot.
After looking at the youtube non-edited he had muzzle flash on his 3rd round shot but no others. keep in mind he could have not fired and just jerked it back himself without firing. Not that, that would be a way to use a weapon, but he is clearly barely competent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwrgvqlc8DA
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Old 04-28-2013, 2:55 PM
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Stay away from internet cafes!!!!!

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  #16  
Old 04-28-2013, 6:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Ricigliano View Post
While we can all agree that his weapon presentation/marksmanship/tactics left a lot to be desired, it should be recognized above all else that he decided to fight back and engage his enemy when everyone else was cowering like sheep.

Often audacity and surprise will make up for skill, as seen here.
The OP's question was what he did wrong. I pointed it out. I didn't put him down or demean his intentions. The fact is, he possibly saved lives.
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