Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > POLITICS, LITIGATION AND ACTIVISM > California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

View Poll Results: What is the pro-2A camp's single biggest failure in defending our RKBA?
We have not ensured there was gun safety/operation training in all levels of education. 7 4.00%
We have not objected when guns and their owners are vilified in our schools. 13 7.43%
We have not supported the NRA to the level we should. 8 4.57%
The NRA's approach is too strident and divisive to ever be really far reaching. 4 2.29%
We lack tact. Pride and ignorance gets in the way. Molon labe, etc. 12 6.86%
We have not done our part in introducing others to hunting and the shooting sports. 17 9.71%
We are accustomed to playing defense -- we need to go on the offense. 49 28.00%
We have not come out strong enough against the criminal misuse of guns. 5 2.86%
We lack the individual communication skills of the collective anti-2A camp. 4 2.29%
We have continually tried to make guns a partisan issue, vilifying all "liberals." 37 21.14%
Gun makers and related manufacturers have not done a good job in selling the importance of guns. 3 1.71%
And of course, we have not supported the right pro-2A political candidates with enough dedication. 16 9.14%
Voters: 175. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-22-2013, 2:25 PM
Excelsior Excelsior is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: California, thanks be to God!
Posts: 4,216
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default What is the pro-2A camp's biggest failure in defending our RKBA?

What is the pro-2A camp's biggest failure in defending our RKBA?
__________________
[CENTER]CALIFORNIA: Love it, leave it /CENTER]

The right to keep and bear arms comes not from the generosity of the state but from the hand of God.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-22-2013, 2:45 PM
wizdumb wizdumb is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 855
iTrader: 54 / 100%
Default

Here's an example of the wrong approach, from a recent email I received from Gun Owners of America (emphasis is mine):


Quote:
So it's time to celebrate your enormous victory and recognize those heroes who played a part.

1) First of all, there’s you! The Nutty Lefties now fear you guys more than any group in America. Give yourself a pat on the back for all your hard work. It has been noticed by many on Capitol Hill and even by the anti-gun media.

...
We need more support from people who are misinformed, uninformed, or otherwise on the fence about guns. It doesn't matter what party they identify with. The more people who support guns, the less support politicians will have to restrict our rights.

Making people afraid of us, for any reason, is not going to gain their support.

Pandering to the conservative base and demonizing the words "liberal", "progressive", "left", "intellectual" only widens the gap. This has long been the NRA's approach and likely why they only have 1.44% of the population as members.

The best approaches is to educate, but not from a soapbox or high horse. They need hands-on experience, so they can see for themselves that guns can be enjoyed safely. They need to see how friendly gun folks can be. They need to see that gun shows and firing ranges aren't full of drunken, toothless hillbillies.

Offer free range trips.
Offer firearm safety courses (and offer to pay for them).

Keep the focus on firearm safety and avoid rhetoric as much as possible.
I've seen this approach work first-hand.

If they take you up on your offers and educate themselves, but still hold their beliefs, then you can respectfully disagree with their position.
__________________
Please verify historical quotes before putting them in your signature.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-22-2013, 2:49 PM
bomb_on_bus's Avatar
bomb_on_bus bomb_on_bus is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Bakersfield, CA Kern Co.
Posts: 5,426
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default

select all that apply would be nice
__________________

Ahhhhhhhhhhh! Man that was some great Kool-Aid.......... hmmmmmm theres a hint of something metallic. Oh well guess I will get on with the voting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SGTp View Post
So if you do ban me you will hear from my lawyer as to why you think you can violate peoples civil rights
Quote:
Originally Posted by mosinnagantm9130 View Post
Oh for ****s sake, now there are two of them.This is the type of **** anti's point to when they want to make us all look crazy.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-22-2013, 2:50 PM
Excelsior Excelsior is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: California, thanks be to God!
Posts: 4,216
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wizdumb View Post
Here's an example of the wrong approach, from a recent email I received from Gun Owners of America (emphasis is mine):

We need more support from people who are misinformed, uninformed, or otherwise on the fence about guns. It doesn't matter what party they identify with. The more people who support guns, the less support politicians will have to restrict our rights.

Making people afraid of us, for any reason, is not going to gain their support.

Pandering to the conservative base and demonizing the words "liberal", "progressive", "left", "intellectual" only widens the gap. This has long been the NRA's approach and likely why they only have 1.44% of the population as members.

The best approaches is to educate, but not from a soapbox or high horse. They need hands-on experience, so they can see for themselves that guns can be enjoyed safely. They need to see how friendly gun folks can be. They need to see that gun shows and firing ranges aren't full of drunken, toothless hillbillies.

Offer free range trips.
Offer firearm safety courses (and offer to pay for them).

Keep the focus on firearm safety and avoid rhetoric as much as possible.
I've seen this approach work first-hand.

If they take you up on your offers and educate themselves, but still hold their beliefs, then you can respectfully disagree with their position.
Beautiful posting...

Very, very well said. Thanks.
__________________
[CENTER]CALIFORNIA: Love it, leave it /CENTER]

The right to keep and bear arms comes not from the generosity of the state but from the hand of God.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-22-2013, 2:53 PM
Excelsior Excelsior is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: California, thanks be to God!
Posts: 4,216
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bomb_on_bus View Post
select all that apply would be nice
I think they all apply at some level. I was just looking for peoples' opinion as to which is the biggest failure.
__________________
[CENTER]CALIFORNIA: Love it, leave it /CENTER]

The right to keep and bear arms comes not from the generosity of the state but from the hand of God.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-22-2013, 2:55 PM
Bsandoc40's Avatar
Bsandoc40 Bsandoc40 is offline
CGSSA Coordinator
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Norcal
Posts: 2,411
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

A good defense is a great offense.... or something to that..
__________________

Auto-Ordnance 1911-A1 .45 ACP
Česká Zbrojovka CZ-75 SP-01 Tactical 9mm
Heckler & Koch VP9 9mm
Kimber 1911 "Raptor II" .45 ACP
Remington 870 Tactical Express 12gauge
Sig Sauer P226 MK25 Navy 9mm
Springfield Armory 1911 "MC Operator" .45 ACP
Smith & Wesson M&P 9mm
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-22-2013, 2:58 PM
ZombieTactics's Avatar
ZombieTactics ZombieTactics is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Roseville area, or wherever they pay my confiscatory rates for things only I know how to do (lol)
Posts: 3,684
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

We have not realized that there is no "final victory", and that "eternal vigilance" is not just a cute slogan. We need to ALWAYS be on the offensive.

Exploit the greatest weakness of the opposition: they simply don't know what they are talking about. There is just no way that anyone should be able to mouth the words "assault weapon" (for instance) without drawing derisive laughter. Educating the wider public is key.

We need to communicate our message both intellectually AND emotionally. I recently (and accidentally) did this by stating to a friend "Why do you trust people on gun control who don't even care enough about the victims to educate themselves about what it is they propose to control?" This appeal was factually correct and emotionally consistent ... and led to a good discussion on the merits.
__________________
|

I don't pretend to be an "authority." I'm just a guy who trains a lot, shoots a lot and has a perspective.

Check the ZombieTactics Channel on YouTube for all sorts of gun-related goodness CLICK HERE
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-22-2013, 3:00 PM
mcmikeblues7 mcmikeblues7 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Marin County
Posts: 1,023
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

I believe that a big problem that we have is how secretive we are. Many of us believe that we should keep our gun ownership to ourselves and never speak of it. The problem with this is it creates an enigma for much of the population's imaginations. Their imagination, combined with the media demonizing firearms and their owners, produces a picture of gun owners that is truly what the problem is here. The government may want to take away our guns for control, but they cannot do that unless they get the support of people who want to take away the guns for safety.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-22-2013, 3:08 PM
Luieburger's Avatar
Luieburger Luieburger is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: El Paso, TX
Posts: 888
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

"We have not supported the right pro-2A political candidates with enough dedication."
__________________

NRA Benefactor Life Member
SAF Committee of One Thousand
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-22-2013, 3:17 PM
dfletcher dfletcher is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 10,921
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Market development. We haven't been sufficiently sophisticated selling gun ownership to the average American. Old White guys in cammies doesn't exactly help us penetrate the inner city single Mom or urban professional with 2 kids market.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 04-22-2013, 3:25 PM
wildhawker's Avatar
wildhawker wildhawker is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: California
Posts: 14,407
iTrader: 84 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Excelsior View Post
What is the pro-2A camp's biggest failure in defending our RKBA?
Spending more time talking on Calguns.net et al than actively fighting - and recruiting others to fight - how and where it matters.

-Brandon
__________________
Brandon Combs

I do not read private messages, and my inbox is usually full. If you need to reach me, please email me instead.

My comments are not the official position or a statement of any organization unless stated otherwise. My comments are not legal advice; if you want or need legal advice, hire a lawyer.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-22-2013, 3:28 PM
SwissFluCase's Avatar
SwissFluCase SwissFluCase is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Marin County
Posts: 1,325
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wizdumb View Post
Here's an example of the wrong approach, from a recent email I received from Gun Owners of America (emphasis is mine):




We need more support from people who are misinformed, uninformed, or otherwise on the fence about guns. It doesn't matter what party they identify with. The more people who support guns, the less support politicians will have to restrict our rights.

Making people afraid of us, for any reason, is not going to gain their support.

Pandering to the conservative base and demonizing the words "liberal", "progressive", "left", "intellectual" only widens the gap. This has long been the NRA's approach and likely why they only have 1.44% of the population as members.

The best approaches is to educate, but not from a soapbox or high horse. They need hands-on experience, so they can see for themselves that guns can be enjoyed safely. They need to see how friendly gun folks can be. They need to see that gun shows and firing ranges aren't full of drunken, toothless hillbillies.

Offer free range trips.
Offer firearm safety courses (and offer to pay for them).

Keep the focus on firearm safety and avoid rhetoric as much as possible.
I've seen this approach work first-hand.

If they take you up on your offers and educate themselves, but still hold their beliefs, then you can respectfully disagree with their position.
This would have been my 2nd choice if I could make one, right after "not going offensive". It is a fact that the 2nd Amendment community must become non-partisan if we are to survive.

Regards,


SwissFluCase
__________________
"We don't discuss the governor's arsenal in detail" - Brown spokeswoman Elizabeth Ashford
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04-22-2013, 3:34 PM
taperxz taperxz is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Lake County
Posts: 14,891
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildhawker View Post
Spending more time talking on Calguns.net et al than actively fighting - and recruiting others to fight - how and where it matters.

-Brandon
While some of this is true, you can't discount the availability of keeping folks active in the fight if it only means alerting them when to call Sacramento to fight a bill.

If i'm not mistaken, didn't CGN play a significant role in getting much of CGF together and create a place to come up with ideas to fight for these rights?

I don't think the name "Calguns" came out of thin air.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04-22-2013, 3:34 PM
sammich sammich is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 694
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

There should be an option for gun owners who have cognitive dissonance.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 04-22-2013, 3:39 PM
LuvLRBs LuvLRBs is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: San Diego
Posts: 565
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

Being mean and nasty to new people here and calling them stupid and trolls doesn't help matters, either. Online gun communities need to be more welcoming and tolerant.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 04-22-2013, 3:43 PM
wildhawker's Avatar
wildhawker wildhawker is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: California
Posts: 14,407
iTrader: 84 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by taperxz View Post
While some of this is true, you can't discount the availability of keeping folks active in the fight if it only means alerting them when to call Sacramento to fight a bill.

If i'm not mistaken, didn't CGN play a significant role in getting much of CGF together and create a place to come up with ideas to fight for these rights?

I don't think the name "Calguns" came out of thin air.
Not a judgment on the value of communication, just a nudge towards taking action.

-BC
__________________
Brandon Combs

I do not read private messages, and my inbox is usually full. If you need to reach me, please email me instead.

My comments are not the official position or a statement of any organization unless stated otherwise. My comments are not legal advice; if you want or need legal advice, hire a lawyer.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 04-22-2013, 3:44 PM
taperxz taperxz is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Lake County
Posts: 14,891
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildhawker View Post
Not a judgment on the value of communication, just a nudge towards taking action.

-BC
Agreed.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 04-22-2013, 4:35 PM
TRICKSTER's Avatar
TRICKSTER TRICKSTER is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Contra Costa County
Posts: 10,823
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Default

What is the pro-2A camp's single biggest failure in defending our RKBA?

Not paying attention to or intentionally ignoring the fact that the Democrats that some in the pro-2a camp support with their money and votes, have been and continue to be anti-gun, and refusing to hold themselves and party accountable for their position.
__________________


Ignorance can be educated.
Crazy can be medicated.
But there is no cure for stupid.


Police Brutality? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRd5oucG114

NRA Benefactor Member
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 04-22-2013, 5:13 PM
NotEnufGarage's Avatar
NotEnufGarage NotEnufGarage is offline
C3 Coordinator
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Carmichael, CA
Posts: 4,725
iTrader: 51 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wizdumb View Post
Here's an example of the wrong approach, from a recent email I received from Gun Owners of America (emphasis is mine):




We need more support from people who are misinformed, uninformed, or otherwise on the fence about guns. It doesn't matter what party they identify with. The more people who support guns, the less support politicians will have to restrict our rights.

Making people afraid of us, for any reason, is not going to gain their support.

Pandering to the conservative base and demonizing the words "liberal", "progressive", "left", "intellectual" only widens the gap. This has long been the NRA's approach and likely why they only have 1.44% of the population as members.

The best approaches is to educate, but not from a soapbox or high horse. They need hands-on experience, so they can see for themselves that guns can be enjoyed safely. They need to see how friendly gun folks can be. They need to see that gun shows and firing ranges aren't full of drunken, toothless hillbillies.

Offer free range trips.
Offer firearm safety courses (and offer to pay for them).

Keep the focus on firearm safety and avoid rhetoric as much as possible.
I've seen this approach work first-hand.

If they take you up on your offers and educate themselves, but still hold their beliefs, then you can respectfully disagree with their position.
Was it the taste or the smell of the troll bait that got you to bite?
__________________

NRA Life Member (Benefactor level)

"Those who give up some of their liberty in order to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty, nor safety." B. Franklin
Calguns Community Chapters (C3) in Your Community
Calguns Community Chapters (C3) and Appleseed Event Calendar

The 2nd Amendment is not about hunting or competition shooting. It's all about your inalienable rights to life and liberty.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 04-22-2013, 5:37 PM
sammich sammich is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 694
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvLRBs View Post
Being mean and nasty to new people here and calling them stupid and trolls doesn't help matters, either. Online gun communities need to be more welcoming and tolerant.
It is this cliquish mentality in discussion forums which has resulted in gun owner stereotypes. Sometimes it is like being back in grade school.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 04-22-2013, 5:50 PM
TempleKnight's Avatar
TempleKnight TempleKnight is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Lincoln, CA
Posts: 720
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvLRBs View Post
Being mean and nasty to new people here and calling them stupid and trolls doesn't help matters, either. Online gun communities need to be more welcoming and tolerant.
Agreed, there's no reason to be rude and condescending to noobs. On the other hand, check back in a year and tell us how you feel about stupid trolls. It gets old.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 04-22-2013, 6:22 PM
Excelsior Excelsior is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: California, thanks be to God!
Posts: 4,216
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

"We are accustomed to playing defense -- we need to go on the offense" has a pretty good lead right now and that sentiment makes more and more sense to me.

There is absolutely no questioning the fact that the NRA is a very effective 2A lobby. The NRA gets remarkable results given with what it has to work with.

Sadly the NRA is tiny with regard to the number of gun owners in the USA. Its voice resonates with a comparatively small number of hardcore 2A supporters while turning off a great many others.

Unless the NRA changes and grows (without losing its ability to effectively lobby) it will always be a reactive, defensive operation. It will never have the broad support that will allow it to go on the offensive and lobby from that perspective.

The scary part is that it appears like the anti-2A crowd has finally swallowed some of its pride and recognized that the NRA is effective. Bloomberg and company now what to emulate the NRA in targeting of political candidates. It's going to be a fascinating process to watch.
__________________
[CENTER]CALIFORNIA: Love it, leave it /CENTER]

The right to keep and bear arms comes not from the generosity of the state but from the hand of God.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 04-22-2013, 6:27 PM
Excelsior Excelsior is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: California, thanks be to God!
Posts: 4,216
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvLRBs View Post
Being mean and nasty to new people here and calling them stupid and trolls doesn't help matters, either. Online gun communities need to be more welcoming and tolerant.
Amen.

While its focus is not really 2A rights, I think that's why forums like TheHighRoad thrive. They simply do not allow the personal attacks, nor do they allow non-productive threads that are created simply to attack the BATFE, Obama, Feinstein, Biden, etc., etc.

They also don't allow "thread-crapping" which is good because whiners/crappers often short-circuit some very interesting discussions.
__________________
[CENTER]CALIFORNIA: Love it, leave it /CENTER]

The right to keep and bear arms comes not from the generosity of the state but from the hand of God.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 04-22-2013, 6:30 PM
Excelsior Excelsior is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: California, thanks be to God!
Posts: 4,216
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sammich View Post
It is this cliquish mentality in discussion forums which has resulted in gun owner stereotypes. Sometimes it is like being back in grade school.
It's also sorta like walking into some gun shops, shooting ranges, saloons, etc.
__________________
[CENTER]CALIFORNIA: Love it, leave it /CENTER]

The right to keep and bear arms comes not from the generosity of the state but from the hand of God.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 04-22-2013, 6:31 PM
lilro lilro is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,370
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

My opinion is not in the poll. We are too afraid to "break the law".

As long as we remain "law-abiding", they will continue to pass invasive and unconstitutional laws. Then we will blow all our warchest funds on court cases, and we lose them. Sure, we may "win" a couple, but a few Court Justices down the line, we will lose them again.
__________________
There is no justification for the public servant police to be more heavily armed than the law-abiding public they serve...Unless...the government's intention is to be more powerful than the people.

Last edited by lilro; 04-22-2013 at 6:34 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 04-22-2013, 6:40 PM
wjc's Avatar
wjc wjc is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Sunnyvale, Ca
Posts: 10,660
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

I'd go with "all of the above" if it were available.

I'd also add "Not making our legislators accountable".
__________________
Some words can give you a feeling that makes your heart warm. Republic is one of those words.

-- John Wayne as Davy Crockett in The Alamo
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 04-22-2013, 6:44 PM
nicki's Avatar
nicki nicki is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,152
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default Tough choices.

I picked that we need to be on "offense" even though you had many other choices I would have also picked.

The rules of the game of changed, the truth is the NRA doesn't have the power it used to in this state because of changing demographics.

Republican registration statewide is just under 30 percent, one of the biggest growing groups are people who register decline to state.

I don't object to people saying they won't support a candidate who is pro gun, but also pro choice and/or pro gay marriage as long as they are honest enough to admit that those issues are more important to them then gun rights.

On the flip side, someone who claims to support gun rights, but then supports anti gun candidates for other reasons should also be honest enough to admit that too.

For me, I view gun rights as one of the most important rights to maintain our system of ordered liberty and a government that trully operates under "consent of the governed".

If we lose our gun rights, we lose all of our rights because once we lose enforcement powers, they become government revocable privileges.

Most people I have talked with get it if you talk to them rather than talk down with them, acknowledge problems with gun violence and take the time to go over solutions that destroy our rights.

Nicki
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 04-22-2013, 6:56 PM
yellowfin's Avatar
yellowfin yellowfin is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Lancaster, PA
Posts: 8,373
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
We have not realized that there is no "final victory",
Nonsense. There absolutely can be. Is there active political interest and effort on any scale to repeal women's right to vote? How about to reinstate alcohol Prohibition? How about to adopt German or French as the official language, or rejoin Britain politically (possible exception being Piers Morgan)? All of those were at various points in the political discussion from which we have permanently moved on. Attitudes and ideas changed. We CAN install a permanently pro 2A culture to where the anti gun mentality and political agenda are permanently wiped out. It's only a matter of whether enough on our side are willing to do what it takes to accomplish it, namely taking control of the situation. It is neither impossible nor really all that difficult to understand.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 04-22-2013, 7:18 PM
Excelsior Excelsior is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: California, thanks be to God!
Posts: 4,216
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TempleKnight View Post
Agreed, there's no reason to be rude and condescending to noobs. On the other hand, check back in a year and tell us how you feel about stupid trolls. It gets old.
The worst are those that resort to the "troll chant" anytime they lack the ability to otherwise influence a thread.

That's thread-crapping at its absolute worst.
__________________
[CENTER]CALIFORNIA: Love it, leave it /CENTER]

The right to keep and bear arms comes not from the generosity of the state but from the hand of God.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 04-22-2013, 7:43 PM
Excelsior Excelsior is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: California, thanks be to God!
Posts: 4,216
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowfin View Post
Nonsense. There absolutely can be. Is there active political interest and effort on any scale to repeal women's right to vote? How about to reinstate alcohol Prohibition? How about to adopt German or French as the official language, or rejoin Britain politically (possible exception being Piers Morgan)? All of those were at various points in the political discussion from which we have permanently moved on. Attitudes and ideas changed. We CAN install a permanently pro 2A culture to where the anti gun mentality and political agenda are permanently wiped out. It's only a matter of whether enough on our side are willing to do what it takes to accomplish it, namely taking control of the situation. It is neither impossible nor really all that difficult to understand.
Naw. Nothing man-made is forever. Students of history recognize that things tend to go in cycles -- often times in circles.

For 200 years the USA, its Constitution and the Bill of Rights has held-up. That's great -- I hope it continues for a very long time. But to suggest there is a way to create a "permanent anything culture" is simply absurd.

Matters such as homosexuality have been at least tacitly approved (ancient Greeks and Romans) only to become highly verboten only to become accepted again. It's a cycle.

The key in this case is for the Constitution/BOR to remain no matter what the dictates of popular culture demands.
__________________
[CENTER]CALIFORNIA: Love it, leave it /CENTER]

The right to keep and bear arms comes not from the generosity of the state but from the hand of God.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 04-22-2013, 7:43 PM
TRICKSTER's Avatar
TRICKSTER TRICKSTER is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Contra Costa County
Posts: 10,823
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Excelsior View Post
The worst are those that resort to the "troll chant" anytime they lack the ability to otherwise influence a thread.

That's thread-crapping at its absolute worst.
Not when, like in this case, it's true. It has nothing to do with not being able to influence the thread and everything to do with the same topic being brought up in various incarnations every few days by the same attention craving poster who constantly makes claims with no facts to back them up.
__________________


Ignorance can be educated.
Crazy can be medicated.
But there is no cure for stupid.


Police Brutality? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRd5oucG114

NRA Benefactor Member

Last edited by TRICKSTER; 04-22-2013 at 8:09 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 04-22-2013, 10:14 PM
Excelsior Excelsior is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: California, thanks be to God!
Posts: 4,216
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lilro View Post
My opinion is not in the poll. We are too afraid to "break the law".

As long as we remain "law-abiding", they will continue to pass invasive and unconstitutional laws. Then we will blow all our warchest funds on court cases, and we lose them. Sure, we may "win" a couple, but a few Court Justices down the line, we will lose them again.
So what exactly are we supposed to do? Start ripping labels off of mattresses?
__________________
[CENTER]CALIFORNIA: Love it, leave it /CENTER]

The right to keep and bear arms comes not from the generosity of the state but from the hand of God.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 04-22-2013, 10:39 PM
HPBrowningMK3's Avatar
HPBrowningMK3 HPBrowningMK3 is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Los Angeles, PRK
Posts: 1,248
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Default

You really want an answer? Fighting them by THEIR own rules, is out biggest problem. We have this noble idea of fighting fair (Marquess of Queensberry rules) with STREET THUGS! Don Quixote at his best.

Time to take the gloves off and blitz them hard. But unfortunately there doesn't seem to be an appetite for it.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 04-22-2013, 11:44 PM
wizdumb wizdumb is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 855
iTrader: 54 / 100%
Default

Sometimes I think we could make leaps and bounds by giving anti-gun folks exactly what they are asking for, verbatim.

1. Restrict assault rifles
2. Require background checks for non C&R guns at gun shows
3. Restrict >10 round clips

For those who don't *get it*:
1. has already been in place since 1986
2. means only within the gun show premises, a very minor loss for those too lazy to walk outside and conduct their private business.
3. should be obvious... These may not even exist.

At the very least, it will disrupt their talking points and force them to learn more about the subject of firearms.
__________________
Please verify historical quotes before putting them in your signature.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 04-23-2013, 1:17 AM
Excelsior Excelsior is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: California, thanks be to God!
Posts: 4,216
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HPBrowningMK3 View Post
You really want an answer? Fighting them by THEIR own rules, is out biggest problem. We have this noble idea of fighting fair (Marquess of Queensberry rules) with STREET THUGS! Don Quixote at his best.

Time to take the gloves off and blitz them hard. But unfortunately there doesn't seem to be an appetite for it.
Just what do you suggest?

If there was ever a group of street-fighters it would be the NRA lobbiests.
__________________
[CENTER]CALIFORNIA: Love it, leave it /CENTER]

The right to keep and bear arms comes not from the generosity of the state but from the hand of God.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 04-23-2013, 7:37 AM
ChrisC's Avatar
ChrisC ChrisC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: NorCal
Posts: 2,464
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Excelsior View Post
What is the pro-2A camp's biggest failure in defending our RKBA?
Thinking that it is only the democrats that are creating new gun laws. How many laws in California and the rest of the country were signed in by republicans. People look at one side and ignore their own people. And when it does happen they just say that they are not republicans, they are rino's. Like it makes it ok. People need to stop pointing fingers at one side and open their eyes to see we are being attacked by both sides. Yes more of the attacks are from the right currently, but if you look at the gun laws in California, the majority of the big ones were signed into law by republicans.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 04-23-2013, 7:57 AM
littlejake littlejake is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Калифорния
Posts: 2,136
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

One only needs to look at posts on Calguns to see a reason we do not present a more united front. I see too many posts that insult people. We must embrace every person who comes to these forums. Our sole uniting cause must be the preservation of the 2A.

Pounding on people for their other views: politics, lifestyle, age, race, gender, et cetera is a sure way to lose the day.
__________________
Life Member NRA and 2A Foundation. Member FPC.
My posts are my own opinions and do not reflect those of any organization I am a member of.
Nothing I post should be construed as legal advice; if you need legal advice, see a lawyer.

"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."
William Pitt (1759-1806)
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 04-23-2013, 8:04 AM
TRICKSTER's Avatar
TRICKSTER TRICKSTER is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Contra Costa County
Posts: 10,823
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by littlejake View Post
One only needs to look at posts on Calguns to see a reason we do not present a more united front. I see too many posts that insult people. We must embrace every person who comes to these forums. Our sole uniting cause must be the preservation of the 2A.

Pounding on people for their other views: politics, lifestyle, age, race, gender, et cetera is a sure way to lose the day.
So you would embrace those who sabatoge us from within?
__________________


Ignorance can be educated.
Crazy can be medicated.
But there is no cure for stupid.


Police Brutality? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRd5oucG114

NRA Benefactor Member
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 04-23-2013, 8:39 AM
advocatusdiaboli's Avatar
advocatusdiaboli advocatusdiaboli is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Rural Central California
Posts: 5,097
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

How about: the NRA, CRPA, SAF, and CGF have utterly failed to repeal.injunct/nullify ANY (well there was that one ammo billbut worse will now be passed) California restrictions on firearms and now even more are coming—we are seeing the end of RKBA within CA state lines this year.
__________________
Benefactor Member NRA, Life Member CRPA, CGN Contributor, US Army Veteran


"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."
-- John Dean "Jeff" Cooper, The Art of the Rifle
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 04-23-2013, 8:48 AM
LuvLRBs LuvLRBs is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: San Diego
Posts: 565
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRICKSTER View Post
So you would embrace those who sabatoge us from within?
I havent been here long enough to figure out who's who. But my guess is you do get some lurkers who dont support 2a. But if you're a regular person who hasn't bought a new gun in years, or just buying your first, this is new territory. What would you prefer, keeping it a closed club or putting up with irritating questions and ideas from noobs? I truly dont know what your answer to that question is.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:31 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2016, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.