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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #41  
Old 04-21-2013, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by California44 View Post
Any Leo's here that might give some perspective? How can a private residence and individuals inside be searched without warrant? I'm taken aback by the removal, frisking and hands in the air treatment of non-suspects. How can this be legal.
What makes you believe that anything here was done without a warrant?
Other than the title of the video, and the O/Ps comments, what makes you believe that this is even a police action taken in Watertown Mass. during Fridays search for the terrorist?
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  #42  
Old 04-21-2013, 10:56 PM
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If a drug raid, where are the cuffs? Why knock? Why is woman allowed to bring the dog? Why not charge in as a raid would usually unfold? Why is officer in front of video guy's home? Why national guard?
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Last edited by California44; 04-21-2013 at 11:17 PM..
  #43  
Old 04-21-2013, 10:57 PM
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Isn't this some form a Tyranny. Isn't this why 2a was created? Not saying I wouldn't comply but what are the homeowners rights in this case, assuming no warrant and forced entry?
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  #44  
Old 04-21-2013, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by TRICKSTER View Post
So you post this as what was happening in Watertown and you don't even know if this video is from the search for the terrorist. Can you be any more irresponsible?

By the way, those do not appear to be Watertown Mass. Trash cans and according to the City of Watertown website, garbage is collected Mon-Thur, so why are all those garbage cans out on the street.
http://www.ci.watertown.ma.us/?nid=333
Attachment 226527
First off, the video says it was Watertown, if it is, then there is something wrong. Without ACTUALLY being there I wouldn't know. How is posting that and bringing up my concerns about being armed in my house during a lockdown irresponsible? Am I wrong to wonder about how to handle a situation where a dangerous fugitive is hiding in my neighborhood as well as hundreds of armed to the teeth jumpy law enforcement? And before you try to tell me that they wouldn't be jumpy, let me remind you of 2 women and a surfer that may beg to differ.
  #45  
Old 04-21-2013, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by n2fooz View Post
First off, the video says it was Watertown, if it is, then there is something wrong. Without ACTUALLY being there I wouldn't know. How is posting that and bringing up my concerns about being armed in my house during a lockdown irresponsible? Am I wrong to wonder about how to handle a situation where a dangerous fugitive is hiding in my neighborhood as well as hundreds of armed to the teeth jumpy law enforcement? And before you try to tell me that they wouldn't be jumpy, let me remind you of 2 women and a surfer that may beg to differ.
If that was your only concern and you didn't post this video and title the thread "This is not right" and stated
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Originally Posted by n2fooz View Post
There is definitely something wrong here. Between this and the Dorner situation it really seems like when **** goes down, the public comes out on the short end of the stick with the police...
I could see your concern. However, that is not what you did. You posted a questionable video that provides no context or information, assumed that it showed the Boston terrorist hunt and some type of police wrongdoing and ran with it. That sir is irresponsible.

Edit: As far as , "it said it was Watertown", do you believe everything that you see posted on the internet?
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Last edited by TRICKSTER; 04-21-2013 at 11:36 PM..
  #46  
Old 04-22-2013, 12:21 AM
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I guess you are right, I shouldn't assume that it actually was Watertown. I actually shouldn't believe these either:

Watertown Video 1

Watertown Video 2

http://fios1news.com/longisland/node/31638

http://www.npr.org/2013/04/19/178005...ening-shootout

"But around 10:00 today, they must have gotten some sort of tip or they must have seen somebody suspicious about two houses down from me because the cops just came up to me, and he knocked on my door. He physically came inside. He grabbed me by the arm, and he was like: You need to get out of this house now.

And so I grabbed my dog, and he literally, like, dragged me across the street by my arm. He's like this is dangerous; we need to get you out. So I'm across the street with all my neighbors. And all we just see is, like, I'm not exaggerating, like 50 SWAT guys just came barreling down the street with their guns drawn to this house.

But, I mean, it turns out that that was a false alarm. We were kind of hoping that that was it because then we could rest our heads, you know, we could breathe easy. It's definitely, definitely scary. It was the scariest thing I've ever been through, just hearing the bombs and the shots. It was - it's been crazy."

Last edited by n2fooz; 04-22-2013 at 12:26 AM.. Reason: Fixed first 2 links
  #47  
Old 04-22-2013, 1:01 AM
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Originally Posted by mmayer707 View Post
I really think that this is a false video. Looks like a drug raid to me. Notice how they are just focusing on the one house? I bet this has nothing to do with the bombings.
If it was a drug raid they would have put everyone on the ground and cuffed them. Police do not have suspects run down the street with their hands up when serving a warrant.
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  #48  
Old 04-22-2013, 1:25 AM
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This is the extended version of the video the OP posted. If you jump to about the 11 minute mark you can clearly see the vehicles leaving the scene are the same type of vehicles the news has been showing during the search.




Video from a news channel describing what was happening to multiple houses.




I have it all posted in this thread

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...3#post11156703
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  #49  
Old 04-22-2013, 7:11 AM
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I have not seen a single "interview" of a family that was forcefully removed from thier house by a SWAT team. Not saying it didn't happen, but I would be very interested for those families to come forward and hear first hand if it happened; Lawsuit city!!!! The video looks like a NASTY way to treat residents that (OBVIOUSLY) don't fit the description of your suspect!
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Old 04-22-2013, 7:54 AM
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There just isn't enough info to make any determination. All that would be needed to make this legal, taking the totality of the circumstances (area locked down due to firefight and search of armed suspect on going) would be a phone call or a statement from someone stating "I saw someone who fit the suspects description at this house or near this house or in the yard of this house".

At the end of the video you see others coming out of their houses and no other houses being searched. That should be enough for any thinking person to think of other options of "why this house".
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  #51  
Old 04-22-2013, 8:20 AM
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i bet they WANT stuff like this bombing to happen, then everybody on a predetermined "list" get's a good illegal shakedown and house search.

doesn't seem that outlandish to me.

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  #52  
Old 04-22-2013, 10:47 AM
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Were they looking for the suspect during the pat downs? Maybe he is in your pocket. You can't search in places the sought after thing won't fit.
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  #53  
Old 04-22-2013, 12:44 PM
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so much for all the leo and military that continuosly say they wont be involved in anti-constitutional collusion with the gov
  #54  
Old 04-22-2013, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by mmayer707 View Post
I believe I am. Did you see how many full grown men they pulled out of that house? Didn't look like your typical family to me. Also, if they were really worried about raiding each house I doubt the cops would let that guy film like that. They would have probably split up and searched his house at the same time.

I noticed that too, how many grown men do you normally have in your home in the middle of the day? Why aren't they in their own homes? Could there have been a baseball game on and all those guys just decided to watch it together? Etc. etc.

There is just too much information missing to make a judgement.
  #55  
Old 04-22-2013, 3:42 PM
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Originally Posted by California44 View Post
Any Leo's here that might give some perspective? How can a private residence and individuals inside be searched without warrant? I'm taken aback by the removal, frisking and hands in the air treatment of non-suspects. How can this be legal.
Like others have said, this video seems fishy to me....

To answer your question, in general no they cant.... That said, if they "have reasonable (to them) suspicion or belief that a felony suspect is inside your house, or that a crime is being committed or that evidence is in danger of being destroyed, etc then yes they can search your house for that specific thing. It gets murky and to the best of my knowledge, anything uncovered in your house that does not have to do with the specific act that they are investigating or searching for can not be used. For example if they came in looking for a bomb suspect and found illegal substances, then the substances in theory, could not be used against you to prosecute.

This video is strange, and like others have posted, I think it is likely that it is a video of a drug raid or other felony activity that has nothing to do with the Boston bombings.

*****DISCLAIMER***** I am not a LEO, I am a retired Private Investigator who is the son and grandson of CHP Officers. I did start out on that path but decided it wasnt for me......
  #56  
Old 04-22-2013, 4:19 PM
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Originally Posted by n2fooz View Post
I guess you are right, I shouldn't assume that it actually was Watertown. I actually shouldn't believe these either:

Watertown Video 1

Watertown Video 2

http://fios1news.com/longisland/node/31638

http://www.npr.org/2013/04/19/178005...ening-shootout

"But around 10:00 today, they must have gotten some sort of tip or they must have seen somebody suspicious about two houses down from me because the cops just came up to me, and he knocked on my door. He physically came inside. He grabbed me by the arm, and he was like: You need to get out of this house now.

And so I grabbed my dog, and he literally, like, dragged me across the street by my arm. He's like this is dangerous; we need to get you out. So I'm across the street with all my neighbors. And all we just see is, like, I'm not exaggerating, like 50 SWAT guys just came barreling down the street with their guns drawn to this house.

But, I mean, it turns out that that was a false alarm. We were kind of hoping that that was it because then we could rest our heads, you know, we could breathe easy. It's definitely, definitely scary. It was the scariest thing I've ever been through, just hearing the bombs and the shots. It was - it's been crazy."
So now some random anti-police you-tube poster is the equivalent of a news organization that actually provided information explaining what the video was?
By the way, none of the links you posted show the same activity from the first video that you posted. Wonder why?
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  #57  
Old 04-22-2013, 4:21 PM
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It would be nice to know the full story. Was there a reason they raided this house? What was the reason. Did the owner simply refuse to let them in and this was the result? Or did the police really believe the bombers were hiding out there. If they were doing this to every house in the neighborhood I think we would have seen more video. Still a moving video.
I doubt they really thought the bombers where in there. They all seem too casual for that; just going through the motions. A surprising number of young men came out of that house though.
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Old 04-22-2013, 4:28 PM
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Originally Posted by morfeeis View Post
SO that would give them a reason to enter my home without my consent at gunpoint? This is bull crap and had my blood pressure up. screw these cowards.

We are seeing more of this kind of video all the time. Don’t waste your time blowing smoke and griping. Use it, take note of gear, weapons, tactics; inform yourself. Try to figure out how you and your family survive it if it comes to your neighborhood. The time for *****ing is over.
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Last edited by Meplat; 04-22-2013 at 5:19 PM..
  #59  
Old 04-22-2013, 5:46 PM
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Originally Posted by TRICKSTER View Post
So now some random anti-police you-tube poster is the equivalent of a news organization that actually provided information explaining what the video was?
By the way, none of the links you posted show the same activity from the first video that you posted. Wonder why?
The only thing missing from the other videos is the frisking.
The other videos showed people being removed from their homes while they were searched. What reason do they have for taking the names of the occupants of the houses? Especially the women, the suspect was a 19 year old male.
As much as you want me to be, I'm not anti LEO. Far from it actually. I am however concerned with being removed from my home involuntarily, having to consent to a search of my person or of my house and being questioned, even though I clearly don't resemble the suspect at all. I have nothing to hide but that isn't the point. I really don't want to eat the pavement because I didn't have time to secure my weapons before they were at my door. Also would some over zealous LEO decide that my weapons were a nuisance and decide to "temporarily" confiscate them?

Last edited by n2fooz; 04-22-2013 at 5:49 PM..
  #60  
Old 04-22-2013, 6:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgraham15;11157426

[YOUTUBE

Of course the media only showed footage of the citizens who were okay with giving up their rights for the sake of their safety. I wonder how many others after the raid were seriously pissed off about being pulled from their homes at gun point! The media will never show those interviews, like someone said before, I hope the people of this event came forward and speak the true feelings from their experience here.

Quote:
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Were they looking for the suspect during the pat downs? Maybe he is in your pocket. You can't search in places the sought after thing won't fit.

Yeah seriously!
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  #61  
Old 04-22-2013, 7:00 PM
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http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-...wn-goes-viral/

This one was the worst. This horrible cop wouldn't even let the people pay for the milk. It's their right to pay if they want to.

Maybe the story is real, maybe its not. But it is certainly a picture of a cop holding 2 gallons of milk.
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  #62  
Old 04-22-2013, 7:57 PM
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Originally Posted by gundad View Post
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-...wn-goes-viral/

This one was the worst. This horrible cop wouldn't even let the people pay for the milk. It's their right to pay if they want to.

Maybe the story is real, maybe its not. But it is certainly a picture of a cop holding 2 gallons of milk.
This type of story has no business being posted on Calguns especially when the truth is so obvious.
Obviously the officer located the milk after forcing his way into someones house and searching it against their will. Seeing the milk and realizing that his squad would need something to wash down the donuts that were seized from the house across the street, he seized the milk as a public nuisance. Both the milk and donuts were properly disposed of when his squad finished breaking down all the front doors on that block.
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  #63  
Old 04-22-2013, 7:59 PM
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Originally Posted by snapshot7 View Post
Of course the media only showed footage of the citizens who were okay with giving up their rights for the sake of their safety. I wonder how many others after the raid were seriously pissed off about being pulled from their homes at gun point! The media will never show those interviews, like someone said before, I hope the people of this event came forward and speak the true feelings from their experience here.



Yeah seriously!

How much actual experience have you had dealing with the media, especially when it comes to their covering law enforcement?
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Last edited by TRICKSTER; 04-22-2013 at 8:03 PM..
  #64  
Old 04-22-2013, 8:04 PM
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Originally Posted by TRICKSTER View Post
This type of story has no business being posted on Calguns especially when the truth is so obvious.
Obviously the officer located the milk after forcing his way into someones house and searching it against their will. Seeing the milk and realizing that his squad would need something to wash down the donuts that were seized from the house across the street, he seized the milk as a public nuisance. Both the milk and donuts were properly disposed of when his squad finished breaking down all the front doors on that block.

So the real story is finally revealed... I knew it!!
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Old 04-22-2013, 9:26 PM
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a lot to search
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Old 04-22-2013, 10:21 PM
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I'm surprised the MSM didn't spin this one. "Officer with assault milk breaks down door." "Children forced to eat Cocoa Krispies against their will."

Quote:
Originally Posted by gundad View Post
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-...wn-goes-viral/

This one was the worst. This horrible cop wouldn't even let the people pay for the milk. It's their right to pay if they want to.

Maybe the story is real, maybe its not. But it is certainly a picture of a cop holding 2 gallons of milk.
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Old 04-22-2013, 10:41 PM
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How do you know it's milk? It could be a toxic chemical agent inside the milk jugs or worse...maybe it's just regular cows milk but just not organic, OMG!
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Old 04-22-2013, 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by gundad View Post
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-...wn-goes-viral/

This one was the worst. This horrible cop wouldn't even let the people pay for the milk. It's their right to pay if they want to.

Maybe the story is real, maybe its not. But it is certainly a picture of a cop holding 2 gallons of milk.
That's what I imagine milkmen will look like after the zombie apocalypse.




I was going to try to think of a joke about how the caption would be different if it were a black police officer (like the Katrina "Looting" vs "Finding" captions) but my brain doesn't want to work any more tonight.
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Old 04-23-2013, 11:54 AM
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Question regarding this that occurred to me. In a similar situation, ie bad guy in neighborhood, police searching and everyone aware. I think that everyone who had one would have a firearm to hand if not on their person. What would / should you do in that situation? the cop would naturally be hugely jumpy in a situation like that but if they tell you to leave and you have a holstered loaded gun they would be making you into a criminal by leaving the home. If you said I have to lock this back up and wanted to head back into the house I doubt that would go down well either... Any thoughts from LEOS here? I would prefer to know a best course of action just in case.
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Old 04-23-2013, 3:09 PM
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Originally Posted by eighteenninetytwo View Post
Question regarding this that occurred to me. In a similar situation, ie bad guy in neighborhood, police searching and everyone aware. I think that everyone who had one would have a firearm to hand if not on their person. What would / should you do in that situation? the cop would naturally be hugely jumpy in a situation like that but if they tell you to leave and you have a holstered loaded gun they would be making you into a criminal by leaving the home. If you said I have to lock this back up and wanted to head back into the house I doubt that would go down well either... Any thoughts from LEOS here? I would prefer to know a best course of action just in case.
Would it really be that difficult to put the gun away before you answer the door? If not, ask the officer on the scene how they want you to secure the weapon. There is no set in stone answer because it will depend on the officer on the scene and the situation.
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  #71  
Old 04-23-2013, 3:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HOGLEG View Post
Coming soon to a town near you.

If an officer kicks in your door and see's you holding a weapon, expect to get shot.
Just went to a CCW refresher and the instructor (who was retired from some SWAT team in CA) said that SWAT shoots anyone with a weapon in their hand if they are sent to a situation. S o you should wear a "Miss America Sash" that says CCW holder on it and put it on BEFORE you take action so you don't get shot.

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Last edited by truthseeker; 04-23-2013 at 3:50 PM..
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Old 04-23-2013, 4:00 PM
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Reminds me of the door mat:


On a serious note, if I knew in advance cops were going door to door, I'd have video cameras pre-positioned and rolling to catch any shenanigans.

I would not open the door, I would yell through the door. I would expect that if some big linebacker cops wanted to enter, they would just bully their way easily through an already opened door since I'm too small to really stop them.

However if the door isn't opened and they broke it, well it would at least be on tape.
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  #73  
Old 04-23-2013, 4:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaligaran View Post
Reminds me of the door mat:


On a serious note, if I knew in advance cops were going door to door, I'd have video cameras pre-positioned and rolling to catch any shenanigans.

I would not open the door, I would yell through the door. I would expect that if some big linebacker cops wanted to enter, they would just bully their way easily through an already opened door since I'm too small to really stop them.

However if the door isn't opened and they broke it, well it would at least be on tape.
Somebody had the same idea as you with the camera.



The sympathizing for the blatant 4th amendment infringement on the home in the video is very disturbing.
  #74  
Old 04-23-2013, 4:30 PM
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Whoah now. Your reward for pointing a camera is being targetted by someone with a rifle? Did the camera honestly look like a gun, or is this guy just looking to intimidate a photographer? Was he just using his scope as a viewing device? What a jerk.
  #75  
Old 04-23-2013, 4:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HOGLEG View Post
Coming soon to a town near you.

If an officer kicks in your door and see's you holding a weapon, expect to get shot.
also the cop can expect to be shot the moment he enters my residence illegally with violence.

"the action of violence demands a response with violence"
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Old 04-23-2013, 4:50 PM
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And this is why they want to ban anything that can pierce a vest.
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Old 04-23-2013, 5:00 PM
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In a situation with a terrorist on the loose in my neighborhood I seriously would have been wearing my plate carrier vest, AR slung around my neck, pistol on my hip... That's a scary situation just under that pre-text.

The most terrifying thought is IF in a situation like that, they knock, I don't open but I do yell through the door that "everything is ok"...if the 5-0 breaks open my front door, sans warrant, when I am in "Defend the Castle mode" and decked out in defense gear... I would be a dead man in no time.

They would shoot first, ask questions later... I'm dead.
If I shoot first, I wouldn't live to ask questions later either.
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Old 04-23-2013, 5:16 PM
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If an officer enters the wrong home and the homeowner kills the officer, has the homeowner committed a crime? What if the homeowner was asleep upstairs, did not hear the officer yell "police!" outside the front door, but woke to hear officers running within the home. Has the homeowner committed a crime if he fires on the officers?

If yes, then are we supposed to ask who is there when we hear footsteps, thus giving away our position and the element of surprise if it's not the police? What are we honestly supposed to do in the face of this kind of police incompetance?
  #79  
Old 04-24-2013, 1:19 AM
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Due to comments by some posters that they would basically shoot any leo who entered their home if they believed it was an illegal entry and the link to the other similar thread on this same subject locked by Kestryll; this is one will be closed also.
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