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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 04-20-2013, 10:05 PM
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Default How Come No One Has Made This Video?

I am bone-tired of the misapplied and inflammatory label of "assault weapon" and why some guns are banned and others are not despite identical firepower. I am really wondering why the NRA or someone else did not make the following short video.

Begin at a shooting bench with someone like Colion Noir. On the bench have an honest to goodness Sturmgewehr StG 44, a select-fire M16, an AR15, and a Mini-14.

Have him briefly explain the Nazi genesis of the "assault weapon" label followed by running a full mag through the StG 44. Follow this by running a full 30 round mag through the M16 timed with a shot timer. Display the calculated shots/minute.

Then compare the much slower AR15 and emphasize that it is not a fully automatic "assault weapon." Calculate the timed rate of fire and compare it to the M16. Do the same with the Ruger Mini-14 and ask the question of why the AR15 would be banned and the Mini-14 would not be banned?

Keep it as short and simple as possible. Keep telling people to refer to a simple URL like www.nra.com/guntest I think it done correctly it would have cut through a whole bunch of confusion and misunderstanding.
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Old 04-20-2013, 10:06 PM
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Why haven't you?
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Old 04-20-2013, 10:12 PM
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Then what would he have to b!tc# about ~
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Old 04-20-2013, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by wildhawker View Post
Why haven't you?
If I had access to the resources (M16 and StG 44) I would definitely have tried to.

A video like this would go a long way to dispelling some lies...
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Old 04-20-2013, 10:23 PM
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I saw a video after the previous fed ban (unfortunately I can't find it now), it had a LEO displaying an AR-15 and a mini-14. Basically he said the ban was stupid because the only difference was the pistol grip stock. He then proceded to change out the mini stock for an aftermarket pistol grip stock, held it up and said it was now illegal, and that the only difference between a legal semi auto and a banned "assault weapon" is the way it looks.

I'll keep looking for the video.
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Old 04-20-2013, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by SonofWWIIDI View Post
I saw a video after the previous fed ban (unfortunately I can't find it now), it had a LEO displaying an AR-15 and a mini-14. Basically he said the ban was stupid because the only difference was the pistol grip stock. He then proceded to change out the mini stock for an aftermarket pistol grip stock, held it up and said it was now illegal, and that the only difference between a legal semi auto and a banned "assault weapon" is the way it looks.

I'll keep looking for the video.
That would make an excellent video #2...

It would take the NRA continually harping on some simple URL for it to work. I don't know how many rounds/minute could be fired from either an AR-15 or a Mini-14 while maintaining some semblance of accuracy. Possibly 100 rounds?

An M16 without burst will do what? 8-9 times that? That would be a stunning thing for people to see. Use reactive targets to amplify the difference.
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Old 04-20-2013, 10:34 PM
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Here is an older video that is very well done by Leroy Pyle who was with SJPD. I used to shoot with Leroy's group, and he is one of the nicest guys you will ever meet. This is a great video, and Leroy had the courage to publicly take on his own anti-gun Chief Joseph MacNamara, which of course the media loved dearly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysf8x477c30

Last edited by SWMP15; 04-20-2013 at 10:40 PM.. Reason: update
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Old 04-20-2013, 10:34 PM
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Old 04-20-2013, 10:53 PM
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I love that video
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Old 04-20-2013, 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted by CitaDeL View Post
Excellent video.
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Old 04-20-2013, 11:43 PM
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Because it is a waste of money. You people keep thinking that others will learn something and then switch sides. THEY DON'T CARE and to the DiFi lovers it isn't about guns but control. Videos don't do squat. Been trying to change the mind of some family members for years, they just plug their ears and repeat the same old Brady Bunch crap and never even try to learn a thing.
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Old 04-21-2013, 12:03 AM
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Every time WLP, David Keene, Cris Cox and others were interviewed they could have pounded away from the very beginning with "you're misusing the label 'assault weapon.' It's inflammatory and just plain wrong. Your viewers can find the truth about this matter and others at nra.com/GunTest."

Actually watching someone empty a 30 round AR-15 mag in something like 18-20 seconds versus an M-16 in 2-3 seconds would have been most compelling.

Same with comparing the "legal" Mini-14 and the banned AR-15.

I hope someone picks up on this.
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Old 04-21-2013, 12:05 AM
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Was just told about this one which is very current, speaking of Sandy Hook and surprisingly a very good TV news report, on semi-auto vs. full auto.

Sorry, don't know how the attach the video clip straight into the post. So here is the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3vGi4nALJw
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  #14  
Old 04-21-2013, 12:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SWMP15 View Post
Was just told about this one which is very current, speaking of Sandy Hook and surprisingly a very good TV news report, on semi-auto vs. full auto.

Sorry, don't know how the attach the video clip straight into the post. So here is the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3vGi4nALJw
This is good stuff. It needs to be distilled down and polished...
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Old 04-21-2013, 1:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Excelsior View Post
This is good stuff. It needs to be distilled down and polished...
So you still up to you One Trick Pony threads?

It's all been done before, it's "been distilled and polished" but for some who look for every little reason to find fault with the NRA, it will never be enough.

Looking forward to your next "why isn't the NRA doing a better job of XYZ" thread.
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  #16  
Old 04-21-2013, 1:54 AM
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We're talking about liberals here, this would just get the mini-14 banned..

"We have just been informed by people with knowledge on the topic that, the evil assault magazine-clip shoulder things that go up, come in all shapes, sizes, and colors.. Hide your kids!!1" DiFi
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Old 04-21-2013, 1:57 AM
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We're talking about liberals here, this would just get the mini-14 banned..
Last I checked, the Mini's already on the block~
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Old 04-21-2013, 2:01 AM
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Last I checked, the Mini's already on the block~
So, my DiFi quote was accurate then..
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Old 04-21-2013, 2:07 AM
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Old 04-21-2013, 4:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Arkive View Post
We're talking about liberals here, this would just get the mini-14 banned..

"We have just been informed by people with knowledge on the topic that, the evil assault magazine-clip shoulder things that go up, come in all shapes, sizes, and colors.. Hide your kids!!1" DiFi
Damn that sounds ignorant.

One of the classic gun control questions here in LA is why are AR15 pattern rifles illegal while mini-14's are not, given they both have essentially the same firepower?
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Old 04-21-2013, 5:06 AM
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They got this gun. They got this other thingy the bullets go into. Then they put the two together and boom! Dead children.
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Old 04-21-2013, 6:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Excelsior View Post
Damn that sounds ignorant.
What? Either liberals aren't trying to pass new gun laws or Obama, DiFi, and Reid are Republicans, which is it?

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One of the classic gun control questions here in LA is why are AR15 pattern rifles illegal while mini-14's are not, given they both have essentially the same firepower?
Why do you want to show everyone that ar-15's and mini-14's are similar? All it will do is get them banned as well, as posted above, the mini-14 is already on the chopping block..
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Old 04-21-2013, 7:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Kynoch-Purdey-Porterhouse-Excelsior
I am really wondering why the NRA or someone else did not make the following short video.
Why not search YouTube before starting a thread asking for something that already exists?

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Old 04-21-2013, 7:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Arkive View Post
We're talking about liberals here, this would just get the mini-14 banned..

"We have just been informed by people with knowledge on the topic that, the evil assault magazine-clip shoulder things that go up, come in all shapes, sizes, and colors.. Hide your kids!!1" DiFi


So much truth
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Old 04-21-2013, 7:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Arkive View Post
What? Either liberals aren't trying to pass new gun laws or Obama, DiFi, and Reid are Republicans, which is it?

Why do you want to show everyone that ar-15's and mini-14's are similar? All it will do is get them banned as well, as posted above, the mini-14 is already on the chopping block..
It's horribly ignorant because there are PLENTY of pro-2A Democrats in this world that get tired of people (and offended as well) on boards like this that blame all the ills of this world on "liberals."

No, it "won't get them banned as well." It will show that people like Feinstein are trying to create a distinction where none exists.
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Old 04-21-2013, 8:08 AM
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big shooterist made a video exactly like what you're stating except not the same firearms
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Old 04-21-2013, 8:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Excelsior View Post
I am bone-tired of the misapplied and inflammatory label of "assault weapon" and why some guns are banned and others are not despite identical firepower. I am really wondering why the NRA or someone else did not make the following short video.

Begin at a shooting bench with someone like Colion Noir. On the bench have an honest to goodness Sturmgewehr StG 44, a select-fire M16, an AR15, and a Mini-14.

Have him briefly explain the Nazi genesis of the "assault weapon" label followed by running a full mag through the StG 44. Follow this by running a full 30 round mag through the M16 timed with a shot timer. Display the calculated shots/minute.

Then compare the much slower AR15 and emphasize that it is not a fully automatic "assault weapon." Calculate the timed rate of fire and compare it to the M16. Do the same with the Ruger Mini-14 and ask the question of why the AR15 would be banned and the Mini-14 would not be banned?

Keep it as short and simple as possible. Keep telling people to refer to a simple URL like www.nra.com/guntest I think it done correctly it would have cut through a whole bunch of confusion and misunderstanding.
I can't tell you why nobody has made a video but, I can tell you with certainty that it would not make a damn bit of difference to anyone who is anti semi-auto military style weapons.

While it may make us feel good and say; "yeah, yeah, see you f'king dummies, they're not the same!"

I guarantee that the anti types will be "appalled" and get even more enflamed in their opinion of "OMG! why are these killing machines allowed!"

Bottom line; they just don't give a damn, and that's that.

Last edited by M14 Junkie; 04-21-2013 at 8:25 AM..
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Old 04-21-2013, 8:30 AM
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Originally Posted by M14 Junkie View Post
I can't tell you why nobody has made a video but, I can tell you with certainty that it would not make a damn bit of difference to anyone who is anti semi-auto military style weapons.

While it may make us feel good and say; "yeah, yeah, see you f'king dummies, they're not the same!"

I guarantee that the anti types will be "appalled" and get even more enflamed in their opinion of "OMG! why are these killing machines allowed!"

Bottom line; they just don't give a damn, and that's that.
Actually no you cannot. You cannot offer any "certainty" at all. What you can offer is your personal opinion.

I believe that observing an M-16 firing at 8-10x the speed of an AR-15 would give a great many people pause -- particularly when Obama, Biden, Feinstein, Bloomberg, etc. were trying to equate the two.

Sadly this sort of video would require the help of J. Walter Thompson and not hickok45 to be most effective in getting through to anti-2Aers.

"Bottom line", the idea has merit. It's nice to hear that some people have already acted on it.
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Old 04-21-2013, 8:33 AM
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The anti gun politician's reaction would be, "OMG, that wood grampa gun is just as deadly as the plastic gun, ban both"!

Not saying that it would be a bad idea, it probably would help with some regular people.

An approach people are missing is trying to exploit the fact that gun control is very low on the list for voters, even anti voters. We need people who are members of organizations who the antis own to write and call and explain that they are wasting money on bills that don't even gain them many votes.
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Old 04-21-2013, 8:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Excelsior View Post
Actually no you cannot. You cannot offer any "certainty" at all. What you can offer is your personal opinion.

I believe that observing an M-16 firing at 8-10x the speed of an AR-15 would give a great many people pause -- particularly when Obama, Biden, Feinstein, Bloomberg, etc. were trying to equate the two.

Sadly this sort of video would require the help of J. Walter Thompson and not hickok45 to be most effective in getting through to anti-2Aers.

"Bottom line", the idea has merit. It's nice to hear that some people have already acted on it.
Well, we just disagree. These people are repulsed by firearms. Especially military style rifles. They deem them repugnant in the strongest terms right down to their guts.

You are not gonna change their minds showing them firing. The exhibition of noise and power displayed, will only serve to harden their views.
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Old 04-21-2013, 8:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SonofWWIIDI View Post
I saw a video after the previous fed ban (unfortunately I can't find it now), it had a LEO displaying an AR-15 and a mini-14. Basically he said the ban was stupid because the only difference was the pistol grip stock. He then proceded to change out the mini stock for an aftermarket pistol grip stock, held it up and said it was now illegal, and that the only difference between a legal semi auto and a banned "assault weapon" is the way it looks.

I'll keep looking for the video.
It was from a California Sheriffs department. I remember that.

Looks like someone found it already.
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Old 04-21-2013, 8:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Excelsior View Post
I am bone-tired of the misapplied and inflammatory label of "assault weapon" and why some guns are banned and others are not despite identical firepower. I am really wondering why the NRA or someone else did not make the following short video.

Begin at a shooting bench with someone like Colion Noir. On the bench have an honest to goodness Sturmgewehr StG 44, a select-fire M16, an AR15, and a Mini-14.
You don't even have to search youtube - because fellow Calgunners have already watched bunches of videos and selected the best of them - here's post #5 from the "video library" thread (The Pyle video linked to by several people earlier in this thread) - it's not Colion Noir, and it's pretty old, but explains it pretty well. The "video library" thread was created to keep useful videos like this in one, easy to find, spot.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=696865
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Old 04-21-2013, 9:17 AM
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Heyzuse... Colin already did something like this. Not exactly but good enough. There are a bunch of them out there though.

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Old 04-21-2013, 9:45 AM
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A better video would have snippets of all the full spectrum of gun owners. Each with a short phrase spoken into the camera.

The spectrum:

Paramedics
Lawyers
Priests
Nurses
Doctors
Bakers/Chefs
Teachers
Democrats (lots of liberal democrats)
Soccer Moms
Women and women of color
Musicians (classical would be best)
Etc, etc.
Gay couples.

Possible Dialogue:

"I'm a liberal Democrat. I'm pro-choice, pro-gay marriage *and* pro-gun."

"I'm an 18 year carreer paramedic; I'm a New York City liberal; I'm pro-choice; for gay marriage; pro-gun rights." (<- that's me, actually)

Get these clips of *real* gun owners (unlike MAIG actors in plaid shirts) and have someone edit them into a montage.

These videos would scare the poop out of the likes of Gillibrand, Feinstein and Schumer.
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Old 04-21-2013, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Herodotus View Post
A better video would have snippets of all the full spectrum of gun owners. Each with a short phrase spoken into the camera.

The spectrum:

Paramedics
Lawyers
Priests
Nurses
Doctors
Bakers/Chefs
Teachers
Democrats (lots of liberal democrats)
Soccer Moms
Women and women of color
Musicians (classical would be best)
Etc, etc.
Gay couples.

Possible Dialogue:

"I'm a liberal Democrat. I'm pro-choice, pro-gay marriage *and* pro-gun."

"I'm an 18 year carreer paramedic; I'm a New York City liberal; I'm pro-choice; for gay marriage; pro-gun rights." (<- that's me, actually)

Get these clips of *real* gun owners (unlike MAIG actors in plaid shirts) and have someone edit them into a montage.

These videos would scare the poop out of the likes of Gillibrand, Feinstein and Schumer.
Fail....

You all keep thinking once again that if a bunch of people that think "alike" like guns too that some how anti 2a people will change their mind. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!!

Ask yourself this (meaning every one) WHAT...could Difi or Obama or any anti 2a person possible show you, tell you, or what ever that would make you change your mind? If you answer nothing, then you realize what it will take to change theirs....nothing. IF you think you still can change their minds then you are more clueless then the peoples minds of which you want to change.
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Old 04-21-2013, 11:00 AM
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M14 Junkie M14 Junkie is offline
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Fail....

You all keep thinking once again that if a bunch of people that think "alike" like guns too that some how anti 2a people will change their mind. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!!

Ask yourself this (meaning every one) WHAT...could Difi or Obama or any anti 2a person possible show you, tell you, or what ever that would make you change your mind? If you answer nothing, then you realize what it will take to change theirs....nothing. IF you think you still can change their minds then you are more clueless then the peoples minds of which you want to change.
Very well said.

A huge part of the mix; the stereotypical, baby stroller pushing, Starbucks hang-out Palo Alto types, of Silicon Valley IE; GUN HATERS) and you'll understand that the OP's idea of somehow "converting" these ME people by showing them something that they HATE to their core, is a hopeless idea.

Most of these types are A-holes who transplanted here from other states, likely after they went to college out here.

Iv'e known A LOT of them. Practically ALL of the people who live in Portola Valley and Woodside as well, are of this ilk.

Last edited by M14 Junkie; 04-21-2013 at 11:05 AM..
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Old 04-21-2013, 11:15 AM
Kid Stanislaus Kid Stanislaus is offline
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Because it is a waste of money. You people keep thinking that others will learn something and then switch sides. THEY DON'T CARE and to the DiFi lovers it isn't about guns but control. Videos don't do squat. Been trying to change the mind of some family members for years, they just plug their ears and repeat the same old Brady Bunch crap and never even try to learn a thing.


^^^^^THIS^^^^^
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  #38  
Old 04-21-2013, 11:51 AM
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Watch this 3 minute clip, it explains it all....very sad!

"Clueless Californians sign away Second Amendment rights"

http://video.foxnews.com/v/230831279...ndment-rights/
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Old 04-21-2013, 1:33 PM
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Very well said.

A huge part of the mix; the stereotypical, baby stroller pushing, Starbucks hang-out Palo Alto types, of Silicon Valley IE; GUN HATERS) and you'll understand that the OP's idea of somehow "converting" these ME people by showing them something that they HATE to their core, is a hopeless idea.

Most of these types are A-holes who transplanted here from other states, likely after they went to college out here.

Iv'e known A LOT of them. Practically ALL of the people who live in Portola Valley and Woodside as well, are of this ilk.
With all due respect, sir:

Google: https://www.google.com/#safe=off&out...iw=960&bih=513

Some Techies Hear Call of the Shooting Range: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...214799970.html

https://www.google.com/#hl=en&gs_rn=...iw=960&bih=513

That last search Google auto-completed the query with "buying guns" just after I typed the letter B.

You ain't helping by perpetuating the "baby stroller pushing, Starbucks hang-out Palo Alto types, of Silicon Valley" stereotype.

We need to embrace them and kill them with kindness. You sound a little angry and "extreme" when you write things that.

Again, with all due respect.
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Old 04-21-2013, 1:38 PM
Excelsior Excelsior is offline
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Well, we just disagree. These people are repulsed by firearms. Especially military style rifles. They deem them repugnant in the strongest terms right down to their guts.

You are not gonna change their minds showing them firing. The exhibition of noise and power displayed, will only serve to harden their views.
Your making comments that you cannot substantiate. I suspect a huge number of "these people" are confused about firearms. Many have been outright lied to. Educating them would not be easy but it's doable.
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