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Optics, Mounts, Rails and Sights If it aims your firearm, post about it here.

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  #1  
Old 04-15-2013, 10:39 PM
mls204 mls204 is offline
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Default SWFA SS 3-15x42, Vortex 4-16 PST FFP, Bushnell 3-12x42 G2DMR...help me pick

This is going on a Remington 5R. I ditched the SWFA combo deal last year b/c I got tired of waiting and in my frustration sold my SPS Tactical which I never even shot b/c I was waiting on that goddamn scope.

But anyway, I just dros'd a 5R and pick-up is Monday so now I'm trying to figure out what scope to mount on it.

The new SS 3-15 looks pretty nice and is at a great price point but I'm not crazy about the reticle anymore. It's based on the old body style w/ the tophat turrets and the glass is not HD. Plus I'm a little wary about the company now.

I like the Bushnell only b/c of the reticle...still can't shake that it's a Bushnell, but they seem to be pretty good now per forum reviews...

My top choice at the moment is the Vortex 4-16. I'd definitely be getting the FFP EBR1-MRAD version. I found a great deal that puts it in the running pricewise w/ the SS 3-15...and I like the turrets and reticle better.

Which would you guys choose? I know the SS 3-15 is untested and unreviewed but just curious which way CGNers would lean.
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Old 04-15-2013, 10:44 PM
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the Vortex has the CRS Zero Stop, not sure if that's a winning feature
I can't decide whether I want to just break the bank and get the 4-16 PST or save and get the SWFA SS 10x42 sorry I know I'm not much help
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Old 04-15-2013, 10:51 PM
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That's funny you mentioned the 10x42 i was thinking of that one as well but again, non-hd vs hd...and the hd version is the same price as the 3-15...so that put me back at square 1.

optic selection is friggin hard. been pouring the net for days reading reviews and opinions....guess this is the REAL reason the make us wait 10 days
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Old 04-15-2013, 11:39 PM
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That's funny you mentioned the 10x42 i was thinking of that one as well but again, non-hd vs hd...and the hd version is the same price as the 3-15...so that put me back at square 1.

optic selection is friggin hard. been pouring the net for days reading reviews and opinions....guess this is the REAL reason the make us wait 10 days
let's just keep saying that to ourselves to make it faster
but yeah I can't make up my mind and it's been weeks!!!
and what's so special about HD vs non HD .... besides the $400 difference
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Old 04-16-2013, 8:19 AM
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HD stands for High Density. It is low dispersion glass so the image quality is much better, especially at high magnification. Lower quality glass is more subject to chromatic aberrations and a general hazyness, low contrast, soft focus.

They say that the glass you put on your rifle is more important than the rifle itself so for me, it's definitely something that is important. From what I understand the HD model is much much better than the non-hd 10x42.
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  #6  
Old 04-16-2013, 8:21 AM
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Default Here's a video to explain HD lenses...

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Old 04-16-2013, 8:24 AM
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I run one of the Bushnell scopes on my SPR. For what its worth, this scope has been dead reliable in terms of tracking and holding zero. Glass quality is excellent, and the G2DMR reticle is probably the best reticle design you can find in a scope in this price range. I like the option of being able to use holdovers for distance shooting as well as dialing, and the G2DMR allows for both styles of shooting. The 3.12X44 has enough internal adjustment range to allow for dialing most 308 rounds out to 1000 yards from a flat base. With a 20 MOA base, no problem at all dialing that far out.

My only issues with this scope are the overall weight and height of the turrets. At 24 ounces, I feel they could have made it a bit lighter. For an application like an SPR, a weight of 20 ounces or less would have been ideal, but that's probably just me whining for the sake of whining. The turrets, although excellent in overall feel, could have been a bit lower profile IMHO. Pretty much every scope in this catagory and price range has similar turret heights as well, so there is no real disadvantage to going with the Bushnell over similar scopes from other manufacturers.

The Bushnell would be my go-to scope for most mid to long range rifle applications at this point. The only scope that might sway me from that would be the new Vortex Viper PST 2.5-10X32 FFP, mostly due to the lighter weight.
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  #8  
Old 04-16-2013, 8:31 AM
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I bet that Viper has the worst glass out of the 3, if that means anything to you. It also has the best warranty.
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Old 04-16-2013, 8:35 AM
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I really like that G2DMR reticle and by all accounts what I've read about Bushnell indicates it's no long the company we once knew. Given that the SS line used to be owned by Tasco I can cut Bushnell some credit for the work they invested in getting their scope quality up to par.

FMJBT, have you ever had to deal with Bushnell's service dept or any warranty related issues?
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Old 04-16-2013, 8:36 AM
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I bet that Viper has the worst glass out of the 3, if that means anything to you. It also has the best warranty.
I think glass quality is my top priority right now. What makes you say that?
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Old 04-16-2013, 9:34 AM
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Im going to throw into the mix: Vortex 6-24x50

Trying to keep my options under 1k.
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  #12  
Old 04-16-2013, 9:59 AM
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I think I'll go with the non HD model just to get started and save up for a NF or USO
my only concern is are you able to clearly see the reticle ? the pictures on SWFA shows them to be very clear and not solid
sorry for the thread jack OP lol
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Old 04-16-2013, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by mls204 View Post
I really like that G2DMR reticle and by all accounts what I've read about Bushnell indicates it's no long the company we once knew. Given that the SS line used to be owned by Tasco I can cut Bushnell some credit for the work they invested in getting their scope quality up to par.

FMJBT, have you ever had to deal with Bushnell's service dept or any warranty related issues?
So far, I haven't had any need to contact Bushnell Customer Service. *crosses fingers, knocks on wood, etc.*
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  #14  
Old 04-16-2013, 12:03 PM
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I think glass quality is my top priority right now. What makes you say that?
It was mine too until I started reading about all the people selling the S&B's for the bushnell because it held zero better, after being bounced around, and screwing them up at competitions.

I was trying to pick between the G2DMR and Vortex Razor HD, and the G2DMR still won because of the reticle. And well I don't plan to do long range shooting at night so I didn't need illumination, or a zero stop really.

Nightforce is good, but I don't know if the glass is really any better, might depended on when you bought the scope. Some people say the Bushnell glass is just as good as the Nightforce, others says Vortex HD has better glass than NF or Bushnell and still others say NF has better glass than both lol. To me this indicates the glass is good enough for a scope (I'm not taking pictures to hang on my wall through it). NF does not have the best glass from my research, people like them because of the same reasons people like the bushnell (reliability, tracking, reticle).

Scope is Made in Japan, Vortex PST is not, but I believe the Razor HD is.

I see many scopes get rated by glass alone, but I think there is much more to it than that.

Last edited by Justintoxicated; 04-16-2013 at 12:09 PM..
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Old 04-16-2013, 3:18 PM
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To summarize a bit...I originally was thinking Vortex PST 4-16 but then I read that the 6-24 glass is better. However Vortex is made in Philippines and that supposedly means their glass quality isn't as good as stuff made in Japan. However their warranty is the best of any manufacturer mentioned in this thread.

I do like the G2DMR but Bushnell warranty seems sketchy and inconsistent. However with that said the scope has been said to be rock solid with very repeatable turrets and zero stop. I notice there are 2 versions of the 3.5-21x50: Model: BUSET35215GZ and BUSET3124FG. As far as I can tell the only difference is the one ending in Z has zero stop while the one ending in FG does not? Price difference is about $400.

SWFA scopes sound like they are really good for the money but naturally the reviews are subjective. At this point I haven't ruled them out but they are now in last place with Bushnell pushing up to #2 spot, possibly #1 if I can find a good deal.
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Old 04-16-2013, 4:04 PM
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Made in Japan Glass > Made in Philippines Glass

The Viper 4-16 is well known for having substandard glass. I used to own the 6-24 version (supposedly much better glass than 4-16), and the glass compared to say... a SWFA 5-20HD, the difference was noticeable. The price difference between the two isn't great enough that I'd not just save up for the SWFA.

If Team GAP runs Bushnell DMRs, I reckon it's good enough for anyone.

Have no clue how good the glass is on the new SWFA SS 3-15... but if it's as good as their 3-9 or nearly as good as the 5-20... you're going to have a difficult time beating that glass quality at this price range.

What is much much more important to me is tracking and durability. When shopping on a budget, when tracking is rock solid, that scope generally has decent enough glass to ID and hit most anything.
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Old 04-16-2013, 4:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HK Dave View Post
I bet that Viper has the worst glass out of the 3, if that means anything to you. It also has the best warranty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mls204 View Post
I think glass quality is my top priority right now. What makes you say that?
Being a huge Vortex fan I hate to do it, but I am going to have to agree...

My Vortex PST 4-16 FFP didn’t meet my expectation for glass quality when compared to higher end glass. More so noticeable at 16x than at any other magnification within the 4-16x range. I also noticed firsthand the 6-24x Vortex PST did have better glass. I talked to Vortex about this and it’s a known trait of the 4-16 scope at 16x where I did experience a little “haze” for lack of a more technical term. I didn’t want to use the words known problem but it’s a characteristic of the 4-16 due to its design.

I also got in on the SWFA deal for the 5-20 and 1-6x… around the time I ordered that… I placed an order for the Vortex PST 1-4x and 4-16x FFP with the intention of doing a side by side review but it took so long to do the scopes it got put on the back burner and I never did it because everything is now mounted up and being used on rifles plus 11 months later I finally get my 1-6x SWFA...

Now that I have all 4 scopes, my initial impression is the SWFA glass overall edges out over both Vortex models. For all practical purposes the Vortex 4-16 is still an excellent optic, but it will leave you wanting more if you have used better glass. If you have used things like the Millet TRS-1 which I also owned, it offers welcome improvements on all fronts.

Another thing I noticed when comparing the SWFA vs the Viper PST line is the sheer weight of the SWFA scopes, or how light the Vortex PST was in comparison. There was a substantial weight difference and I’m guessing part of that is the scope housing but the SWFA seems like they did a real bang up job with the Japanese glass they used in their HD models.

The Bushnell G2DMR scope is next on my list based on countless recommendations from FMJBT and others on this forum. I very much like the reticle and magnification range but I have no experience with its glass in comparison to options I have used. That said, and being a Vortex fan for reasonably priced feature rich optics with good tracking, the Viper PST 2.5-10x32 also caught my eye. I don’t have anything in the SPRish magnification range so it’s going to be an interesting next purchase.

Hope that helps.

Last edited by ExtremeX; 04-16-2013 at 4:32 PM..
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Old 04-16-2013, 4:42 PM
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OP one piece of advice that will make you a much happier man...

Whichever you get, be happy with it and NEVER EVER EVER EVER look through the following...

Hensoldt
Schmidt & Bender
Premier Reticles
Nightforce ATACR or BEAST
Khales
March
Steiner

Not sure if I missed any, but it is VERY VERY IMPORTANT that you NEVER look through any scopes made by those companies... it will ruin you. :P

Well at least it did me.
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Old 04-16-2013, 4:50 PM
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Not sure if I missed any,
US Optics?
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Old 04-16-2013, 5:38 PM
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Being a huge Vortex fan I hate to do it, but I am going to have to agree...

My Vortex PST 4-16 FFP didn’t meet my expectation for glass quality when compared to higher end glass. More so noticeable at 16x than at any other magnification within the 4-16x range. I also noticed firsthand the 6-24x Vortex PST did have better glass. I talked to Vortex about this and it’s a known trait of the 4-16 scope at 16x where I did experience a little “haze” for lack of a more technical term. I didn’t want to use the words known problem but it’s a characteristic of the 4-16 due to its design.

I also got in on the SWFA deal for the 5-20 and 1-6x… around the time I ordered that… I placed an order for the Vortex PST 1-4x and 4-16x FFP with the intention of doing a side by side review but it took so long to do the scopes it got put on the back burner and I never did it because everything is now mounted up and being used on rifles plus 11 months later I finally get my 1-6x SWFA...

Now that I have all 4 scopes, my initial impression is the SWFA glass overall edges out over both Vortex models. For all practical purposes the Vortex 4-16 is still an excellent optic, but it will leave you wanting more if you have used better glass. If you have used things like the Millet TRS-1 which I also owned, it offers welcome improvements on all fronts.

Another thing I noticed when comparing the SWFA vs the Viper PST line is the sheer weight of the SWFA scopes, or how light the Vortex PST was in comparison. There was a substantial weight difference and I’m guessing part of that is the scope housing but the SWFA seems like they did a real bang up job with the Japanese glass they used in their HD models.

The Bushnell G2DMR scope is next on my list based on countless recommendations from FMJBT and others on this forum. I very much like the reticle and magnification range but I have no experience with its glass in comparison to options I have used. That said, and being a Vortex fan for reasonably priced feature rich optics with good tracking, the Viper PST 2.5-10x32 also caught my eye. I don’t have anything in the SPRish magnification range so it’s going to be an interesting next purchase.

Hope that helps.
I consistently hear PST<SWFA<NIGHTFORCE<Razor HD as far as optical quality with the last two sometimes being swapped (NF and HD that is).

Nightforce isn't even known for the best glass. S&B Hensoldt are suppsoed to be better. But some people have been trading their S&B's for Bushnells because they hold zero better.

As for the G2DMR, the glass is supposed to be made in the same factory as nightforce, but the implementation is probably different. I hear all sorts of peoples opinions on Bushnell glass, some people have even reported they have 2 scopes that are night and day difference while others with 3 scopes tell me each one is pretty much identical. Expect some fringing at 21x, however even with fringing the scope is supposed to "resolve" really well, which is what is important. Glass isn't everything though, holding zero and tracking are also super important. Then there is the reticle, glass can be awesome but not have a useful reticle and I wouldn't even consider the scope. The rest are features, illumination, zero stops etc. At least to me. I'm not sure where PST glass is made, I thought it was japan with the rest of the scope being made elsewhere, might be wrong about that though.

There is US optics too, but yea kinda pricy
http://www.usoptics.com/optics.html?...ander_power=96
and IOR
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/545...-reticle-matte

Last edited by Justintoxicated; 04-16-2013 at 5:46 PM..
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Old 04-16-2013, 5:51 PM
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Man...I really appreciate your guys' help. I feel a bit lightheaded trying to decide between saving money or getting the best optic I can afford and crying about it only once.

I really appreciate the talk about what features are important (i.e. tracking over glass quality, turret repeatability, etc.) I guess I need to really see Bushnell in a new light and after an afternoon of reading & watching reviews, I'm kind of doing that already. Not to mention I thought the G2 reticle was sweet to begin with.

So with that said....here's where I'm at. I'm listing MSRP out of respect for the suppliers I got quotes from:

1. Bushnell 6-24x50 FFP G2 (about $1k)
2. Bushnell HDMR 3.5-21x50 G2 (about $1500) I don't need the ERS model w/ zero stop and 10 mil, mainly b/c that takes me out of my budget.
3. SWFA SS 5-20x50 HD mil-quad (about $1500)

However between #2 and #3 it sounds like the HDMR has it beat....Plus the fact that I can get a better deal on #2 brand new right now versus a #3 new...so it's really a choice between 1 & 2...which boils down to whether I want to fork up another $500 or not.

Does anyone have experience with the Bushnell 6-24 and/or the 3.5-21 and can give me an idea? I understand they're kind of in two different leagues.
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Old 04-16-2013, 5:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mls204 View Post
Man...I really appreciate your guys' help. I feel a bit lightheaded trying to decide between saving money or getting the best optic I can afford and crying about it only once.

I really appreciate the talk about what features are important (i.e. tracking over glass quality, turret repeatability, etc.) I guess I need to really see Bushnell in a new light and after an afternoon of reading & watching reviews, I'm kind of doing that already. Not to mention I thought the G2 reticle was sweet to begin with.

So with that said....here's where I'm at. I'm listing MSRP out of respect for the suppliers I got quotes from:

1. Bushnell 6-24x50 FFP G2 (about $1k)
2. Bushnell HDMR 3.5-21x50 G2 (about $1500) I don't need the ERS model w/ zero stop and 10 mil, mainly b/c that takes me out of my budget.
3. SWFA SS 5-20x50 HD mil-quad (about $1500)

However between #2 and #3 it sounds like the HDMR has it beat....Plus the fact that I can get a better deal on #2 brand new right now versus a #3 new...so it's really a choice between 1 & 2...which boils down to whether I want to fork up another $500 or not.

Does anyone have experience with the Bushnell 6-24 and/or the 3.5-21 and can give me an idea? I understand they're kind of in two different leagues.
glass is important don't get me wrong, but without holding zero and proper tracking...Well ya you get the idea.

And yea don't listen to me cause I'm a long range newb. Still waiting for my mount, arm chair sniper if you will. They are all good scopes IMO but I like the G2 reticle best followed by the vortex that is, for options in your price range.

Last edited by Justintoxicated; 04-16-2013 at 6:04 PM..
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Old 04-16-2013, 6:08 PM
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I consistently hear PST<SWFA<NIGHTFORCE<Razor HD as far as optical quality with the last two sometimes being swapped (NF and HD that is).

Nightforce isn't even known for the best glass. S&B Hensoldt are suppsoed to be better. But some people have been trading their S&B's for Bushnells because they hold zero better.

As for the G2DMR, the glass is supposed to be made in the same factory as nightforce, but the implementation is probably different. I hear all sorts of peoples opinions on Bushnell glass, some people have even reported they have 2 scopes that are night and day difference while others with 3 scopes tell me each one is pretty much identical. Expect some fringing at 21x, however even with fringing the scope is supposed to "resolve" really well, which is what is important. Glass isn't everything though, holding zero and tracking are also super important. Then there is the reticle, glass can be awesome but not have a useful reticle and I wouldn't even consider the scope. The rest are features, illumination, zero stops etc. At least to me. I'm not sure where PST glass is made, I thought it was japan with the rest of the scope being made elsewhere, might be wrong about that though.

There is US optics too, but yea kinda pricy
http://www.usoptics.com/optics.html?...ander_power=96
and IOR
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/545...-reticle-matte


Both my Vortex PST scopes say made in the Philippines and I’m pretty sure that’s the origin of the glass as well if I remember my chat with Vortex correctly, which was over a year ago. Both my SWFA HD scopes say make in Japan. That said, I still don’t consider the glass mind-blowing but it looks to be better than most in that price class. I still find a big smile on my face every time I use my ACOG thinking why can’t all my rifle scopes be this nice.

I haven’t tried a lot of Nightforce scopes (I know I haven’t tried the ATACR or BEAST HK Dave mentioned)… but the ones I have played with did show some chromatic aberration against high contrast objects… aside from that it was really nice, but being an ex-photographer the chromatic aberration was a turn off but not a deal breaker when looking for a scope. I’ve only seen the Razor HD once but I don’t think I spent enough time with it to say if one it really better than the other but I don’t recall seeing any CA.

I agree with you… you can have the best optics in the world but tracking does come first, and a reticle can often be deal breakers or makers. I have always liked the simplicity and usefulness of the Vortex reticle when compared to a basic mil dot scope but I also like the SWFA reticle. One of these days ill try the Horus style reticles as they seem extremely user friendly and fast/accurate for holdovers.

Even though the glass may not be the best in the price class, I’m still drawn to Vortex… personally I just like the overall value / features for the price and will continue to use them. There are times I wish I just went for the Razor HD from the get-go since they also offer a Horus style reticle but its more than I’m willing to spend as I have more than 1 rifle that needs decent glass.

I think part of the battle is just being happy with what you picked up, but the more you learn about optics, the more you experience nicer stuff, the easier it is to drain the wallet wanting that next tier up.

That said… I can point out something I don’t like about every optic I own, and that includes both my SWFA and Vortex PST scopes. I don’t know if I’m being too critical or nit-picky about it… or if I haven’t found “the one” yet…
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  #24  
Old 04-16-2013, 7:55 PM
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I'm new to scooped shooting, not much experience at all, just learning.
The more I learned, the more the price tag went up.

I wanted to learn mill ranging. I wanted FFP, side paralex adjustment, zoom up to 20sh power, big tube, good turrets, illumination and the H59 reticle.

I went with the HDMR. I was a little hung on the illum, But as one (experienced) guy put it, when the light gets so low that he needed illum he couldn't make out the "target" at distance any way.
I read lots of good stuff about the HDMR. I wasn't even thinking about a Bushnell.

I have shot it out to 800 just using holds.
I don't have much to compare to, but the H59 is easy for me to use for ranging and wind and elevation holds.

I bought it from LaRue as a combo with mount.
I take it off the rifle when I'm done for the day and put it back on the next time I shoot. It returns to zero every time. I wouldn't have believed it. Sure makes gun cleaning easier. I'm sure I could use it on more than one rifle with rails and plan to. Just change the dope.
I'm happy.

Best
caveman
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  #25  
Old 04-16-2013, 9:00 PM
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I regularly find the SWFA 5-20 non illuminated for about $1100 used... and by used were talking like 100 rounds through the rifle/
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  #26  
Old 04-17-2013, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExtremeX View Post
Both my Vortex PST scopes say made in the Philippines and Iím pretty sure thatís the origin of the glass as well if I remember my chat with Vortex correctly, which was over a year ago. Both my SWFA HD scopes say make in Japan. That said, I still donít consider the glass mind-blowing but it looks to be better than most in that price class. I still find a big smile on my face every time I use my ACOG thinking why canít all my rifle scopes be this nice.

I havenít tried a lot of Nightforce scopes (I know I havenít tried the ATACR or BEAST HK Dave mentioned)Ö but the ones I have played with did show some chromatic aberration against high contrast objectsÖ aside from that it was really nice, but being an ex-photographer the chromatic aberration was a turn off but not a deal breaker when looking for a scope. Iíve only seen the Razor HD once but I donít think I spent enough time with it to say if one it really better than the other but I donít recall seeing any CA.

I agree with youÖ you can have the best optics in the world but tracking does come first, and a reticle can often be deal breakers or makers. I have always liked the simplicity and usefulness of the Vortex reticle when compared to a basic mil dot scope but I also like the SWFA reticle. One of these days ill try the Horus style reticles as they seem extremely user friendly and fast/accurate for holdovers.

Even though the glass may not be the best in the price class, Iím still drawn to VortexÖ personally I just like the overall value / features for the price and will continue to use them. There are times I wish I just went for the Razor HD from the get-go since they also offer a Horus style reticle but its more than Iím willing to spend as I have more than 1 rifle that needs decent glass.

I think part of the battle is just being happy with what you picked up, but the more you learn about optics, the more you experience nicer stuff, the easier it is to drain the wallet wanting that next tier up.

That saidÖ I can point out something I donít like about every optic I own, and that includes both my SWFA and Vortex PST scopes. I donít know if Iím being too critical or nit-picky about itÖ or if I havenít found ďthe oneĒ yetÖ
I'm picky as hell lol. H59 isn't for me, too busy, then again I might change my mind depending on the type of shooting I am doing. I love the G2 reticle from a theoretical standpoint, and can easily understand how to use it and make holdovers etc. I wish they all used .1 mil marks for the thick portion of the crosshairs like the G2

I know from what experience I have that I like lines better than dots and probably triangles in my reticle.
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Old 04-17-2013, 12:25 PM
mls204 mls204 is offline
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I'm picky as ****. Indecisive too. I'm throwing the idea around of getting a Vortex Razor HD now. It's out of my budget, too much scope for my skill level, and probably over-featured but I don't get a good feeling about Bushnell's warranty. That guarantee for the 1st year is cool but I don't want to have to deal with crappy service if something goes wrong down the line. Their warranty verbiage sounds very conditional.

I'm looking to buy a scope to keep and use for years. Might not be a bad idea like ExtremeX said to just jump right in and buy the best from the start.
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Old 04-17-2013, 12:38 PM
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I'm picky as ****. Indecisive too. I'm throwing the idea around of getting a Vortex Razor HD now. It's out of my budget, too much scope for my skill level, and probably over-featured but I don't get a good feeling about Bushnell's warranty. That guarantee for the 1st year is cool but I don't want to have to deal with crappy service if something goes wrong down the line. Their warranty verbiage sounds very conditional.

I'm looking to buy a scope to keep and use for years. Might not be a bad idea like ExtremeX said to just jump right in and buy the best from the start.
Vortex does have a better warranty, but you pay more for it over the Bushy IMO. I think the $1800 RazorHD and $1250 G2DMR are likely very comparable in other areas, with lots of reports on the tracking on the G2DMR being one of the best of all scopes.

it would be easier if only you could shoot with both! haha.

To me:

G2DMR
+ Better reticle
+ Way cheaper!
* Glass is comparable but I don't know which is better.
* Likely better knobs but I have only played with the PST.
+ slightly better zoom range.
- no zero stop
- no illumination
+ great reviews as you can see over at caprc, even tested by third parties.

Vortex RazorHD
* Well I don't like the reticle as much but it does have an Moa/Moa option
+ More Expensive but you get the best warranty.
+ illumination.
+ Has zero stops

Bushnell XRS
* about the same price as the Razor HD
+ better zoom range and 10x more magnification
+ has zero stops.
- knobs are not as nice as the G2DMR
- no illumination.
Pick the features that are important to you.
for me I told myself: (starting with least imporant)

You do not need illumination
You do not need zero stops.
You do not need 30x (but it would be nice).
I have this much budget ...

And bought the scope that fit best. I almost went vortex because of the warranty, but picked reticle option over warranty. I probably should have got the G2DMR over the XRS. I wouldn't mind having a moa/moa razor either!

Last edited by Justintoxicated; 04-17-2013 at 12:40 PM..
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  #29  
Old 04-17-2013, 12:47 PM
mls204 mls204 is offline
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Thanks for laying that out Justin. I probably should be doing some kind of comparison chart instead of throwing it around in my head.

From your breakdown there....I think G2DMR is probably the best way to go. Hopefully I don't drop my sh** though...
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  #30  
Old 04-19-2013, 4:09 AM
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Currently the SWFA 3-15 is based on their classic line of scopes and not HD line so there are differences in glass, turrets, etc. BTW, the HD does not stand for high density with the SWFA HD line; think of it as meaning "heavy duty" and the HD models being a step up from the classic line.

I haven't seen the 3-15 yet but I would venture it say it's very nice, especially for the price your paying. Yes, the SWFA scopes are on the heavy side and geared more for tactical use much like most of S&B scopes, etc. that you end up paying 1k or more for. If you want a lighter scope for hunting there may be better choices like Swarovski, Zeiss, etc.

As for the wait time for the SWFA 1-6 scope, there were issues with the reticle which caused delays, they changed reticle suppliers at the last minute so the wait time was months later but the end result was a better product.
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Last edited by zio707; 04-19-2013 at 8:38 AM..
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  #31  
Old 04-19-2013, 11:23 PM
mls204 mls204 is offline
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Default In the end, it was the warranty that sold me.

I ended up getting the Razor HD. I found a good deal on a used model that includes a set of rings, but it was the warranty that convinced me to go with it over the other scopes. I started out not wanting to spend more than $1k but will end up doubling that, after getting a scope base. However I feel comfortable that any issues will be taken care of down the road.

I would have gotten a Bushnell because I like the reticle the best, but if something goes wrong I don't want to be caught with my pants down.

The SWFA scopes are a great deal and seem to have extremely good value, but that combo deal experience left a bad taste in my mouth. I don't like how they sell stuff on their site that's out of stock, and I don't want to be one of the guys that had to wait 6+ months for warranty repair. They do offer a lifetime warranty but I don't want to deal with a company like that, and I sure as hell don't want to give them my money.
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  #32  
Old 06-03-2013, 9:53 PM
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Just bought the SWFA 3-15x for my Rem 700 that Russell @ Scout Supply is building me. Won't be done for about six weeks so I'll just have to wait patiently. Or maybe I'll test it out on my AR10....
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