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Ladies Forum A place for our female Calgunners to discuss, share and interact without the 'excess attention' sometimes found in online forums.

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  #41  
Old 04-15-2013, 11:40 AM
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Being the outspoken woman that I am(even though I am short and over 40) when it came to either motorcycles, firearms or automotive(my mom was a mechanic and taught all of us kids how to diagnose, replace etc) and I got the "little lady" attitude, I gently but forcefully let them know that I knew what I was talking about and did not appreciate being talked down to simply because I had a vagina. Places like that did not get my business and considering we owned 6 motorcycles at one time, I gave a lot of good business but only to those who respected the fact that some women do not want a 125cc scooter. I rode a 650 Ninja. I got talked down to a a Vacaville gun shop(GF&OS) and ignored by most of the staff who then pointed me to a .380 and said "All the ladies carry these" I told him I was looking for a .40cal and he said "Too much for you, you need this...." Thank you, Center Mass gets my business now and I don't recommend GF&OS to anyone. People like that are not worth the time or effort to verbally emasculate them but sometimes I just can't control myself. LOL

I actually own two 9mm semi's but routinely use my husband's .40cal semi's also. Heck, my 78lb 14yr old son can rack those. Some men are just a**hats and intimidated by women of all ages, sizes, and attitudes. Smile, nod and ask them "Could you please tell me where your biggest competitor is that treats women as equals?"
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  #42  
Old 04-15-2013, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Bugguts View Post
Smile, nod and ask them "Could you please tell me where your biggest competitor is that treats women as equals?"
I am stealing this. Love it!

Like you Bugguts, all my hobbies are male-dominated. Motorcycles and guns are my top as well. I have stories after stories of *****hats doing that kind of crap.
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  #43  
Old 04-15-2013, 1:47 PM
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I think my girl like shooting more than I do. Mostly cuz I pay for the ammo, guns, targets and do the cleaning lol. But seriously, if some unfortunate fool broke into my house right now. I have complete faith that she would pick up and work my 1911 chambered in .45 with zero issues at all. She only weighs 99 lbs and is age 23. And its new the springs are tight, but I have seen her work that slide still.
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  #44  
Old 04-15-2013, 2:24 PM
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Acting like revolvers are some kind of lesser weapon, suitable only for a woman is laughable. While a .38 in a 3" barrel is something any woman can manipulate effectively, one should not consider revolvers "girl guns". It's a disservice to revolvers and their capabilities, and women offended at the notion of using one think too highly of themselves IMO.
Based on my experience (which is by no means scientific), the women I've seen who had that attitude had it because the revolver has been portrayed as a lesser weapon only fit for women who can't handle a semi auto. They were offended because the people (men) "helping" them pick a gun automatically assume they can't handle a semi auto and therefore recommend a revolver and as as if it's a lesser weapon.
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  #45  
Old 04-15-2013, 3:45 PM
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In my experience technique is more important for those with less arm strength/weaker grip. And yes, women do generally have less arm strength and grip. But it does seem to me technique is 90% of it.

I cannot rack the slide on my XD-40 subcompact the ideal way, but only by grabbing the whole slide with my hand, risking catching the webbing on my hand in the action. This is because I am handicapped in my right hand, and it cannot grip very well (left arm/hand is, however, abnormally strong). It requires me some physical exertion, especially I want to lock the slide back. Now a subcompact, of course, is harder to rack. Yet a fairly petite girl at the range, with very skinny arms/wrist, tried my gun and racked the slide no problem, easier than I do. Now dollar to donuts my one good arm is stronger than both of hers combined and then some. But she could grab the in a better way than I can, and with better technique do it better. She probably couldn't do it the way I do, but she doesn't have to.
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  #46  
Old 04-15-2013, 4:09 PM
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I've taught a few people (male and female) to handle semi-autos.

1. Not one noob racked my 1911's successfully the first time. Unfamiliar and aprehensive.

2. My 5'3" wife now racks and shoots all of them (stock springs) with confidence.
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  #47  
Old 04-16-2013, 7:44 AM
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I will say my wife does have a hard time pulling back the slide on my xd-40 it does have a heavy spring but she can do it if she has to.
.
I don't want to hijack this but what semi autos have easyier springs to pull back on ?
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  #48  
Old 04-16-2013, 8:35 AM
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M&P 9 full size is easier, but then I bought the compact which is about the same as the full size XD.
Anyhow, technique is just as important. Pinching and pulling requires a lot of hand strength. I found that grasping the slide over the top with your palm, holding it in place, and pushing the gun out with the trigger hand is much easier. My wife has no problem with this method.
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  #49  
Old 04-16-2013, 10:16 AM
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I honestly don't know why this is surprising. Why do "some women" say "men are jerks"? Opposing sexes make generalizations about each other all the time, and it goes both ways. And as others have stated... can't blame him too much. Nobody knows what experiences he's had with women shooters. He MIGHT truly not be sexist. That's why people make generalizations in the first place.

I for one, have known more women to have trouble racking a slide (initially) than men... but I have seen both genders have the problem. My ex was a little bitty thing and she had a helluva time racking the slide the first couple of times on my P220. She said "I didn't realize it was going to be that hard". Had nothing to do with her strength, just that the effort it took caught her off guard. She eventually got it, but she always looked like she had to put a good amount of effort into it.

I've also seen an 18 year old male have a hard time racking a Beretta... so... yeah.
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  #50  
Old 04-16-2013, 12:57 PM
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I have 2 1911's and a 380 that my wife has trouble racking. She has pinched the webbing in her hand a couple times but keeps practicing 2-3 times a week. She will get the technique down at some point. In the mean time I jailed a River SP101 for her. She also has her Mossberg 500 if she needs a little more horsepower. Bottom line is have something you can use without issue and keep practicing what you can't until you can.
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  #51  
Old 04-16-2013, 1:49 PM
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Originally Posted by rugershooter View Post
Based on my experience (which is by no means scientific), the women I've seen who had that attitude had it because the revolver has been portrayed as a lesser weapon only fit for women who can't handle a semi auto. They were offended because the people (men) "helping" them pick a gun automatically assume they can't handle a semi auto and therefore recommend a revolver and as as if it's a lesser weapon.
I was at the range the other day and this lady could not shoot her husbands revolver well because it had a very heavy DA trigger pull. I loaned them mine and all her shots were in the black.
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  #52  
Old 04-16-2013, 1:56 PM
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Originally Posted by autoduel View Post
M&P 9 full size is easier, but then I bought the compact which is about the same as the full size XD.
Anyhow, technique is just as important. Pinching and pulling requires a lot of hand strength. I found that grasping the slide over the top with your palm, holding it in place, and pushing the gun out with the trigger hand is much easier. My wife has no problem with this method.
Technique, Yes. Also with the over hand technique you are using two mussel groups.
Vicki Farnam has some good books on teaching women to shoot also
http://www.corneredcat.com/
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  #53  
Old 04-16-2013, 2:15 PM
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Originally Posted by rugershooter View Post
Based on my experience (which is by no means scientific), the women I've seen who had that attitude had it because the revolver has been portrayed as a lesser weapon only fit for women who can't handle a semi auto. They were offended because the people (men) "helping" them pick a gun automatically assume they can't handle a semi auto and therefore recommend a revolver and as as if it's a lesser weapon.


Right, which leads me back to my point...there is some chip on their shoulder if they think using the standard in handheld firearms for some 175 years makes them feel like they are being offered a sub-standard firearm...the men who portray the revolver as such are dingleberries. The earth is filled with people who met their fate at the end of a revolver.
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  #54  
Old 04-16-2013, 4:26 PM
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i know i shouldn't be on this thred ...but showing my wife and daughters this forum i have learned that most men try to tell women what they want to tell them instead of what they want to hear. my wife (20 yrs) and daughters are looking for a handgun and i told them that what i want and what they want is 2 differant thing so on June 1st we will be going to RAAHAUGES for the TURNERS SHOTTING FAIR where they can test drive any gun their little hearts can dessire
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  #55  
Old 04-16-2013, 4:48 PM
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Man, you guys went and stepped in it with both feet.
Just say yes dear then go take out the trash. Done
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  #56  
Old 04-16-2013, 4:55 PM
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Well, not really a smart question. There are weak and strong women, just like there are weak and strong men.

Ya gotta try things on till you find something you like and that fits. Just like shoes.
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  #57  
Old 04-16-2013, 5:20 PM
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when I worked behind the counter oh so many years ago, when a guy and his gal were window shopping a new pistola for her, if they didn't have anything specific in mind, I always presented the glock 19 first to make a point....

and that point is....it's her choice. if the gun fits her hand, and she can operate it, then that is the one for her...including one of these new fangled glocks...

See back when I worked behind the counter, it was just "understood" women used revolvers. auto's were men's guns.
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  #58  
Old 04-16-2013, 9:28 PM
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Originally Posted by guns4life View Post
Acting like revolvers are some kind of lesser weapon, suitable only for a woman is laughable. While a .38 in a 3" barrel is something any woman can manipulate effectively, one should not consider revolvers "girl guns". It's a disservice to revolvers and their capabilities, and women offended at the notion of using one think too highly of themselves IMO.
THIS.

I don't see why theres so much hate toward revolvers. They are incredibly simple to use and rarely ever malfunction. People who think they are lesser because they shoot a revolver need to calm down. A revolver (S&W 686+) is my house gun and I am a male.

I have worked the gun counter in the past and alot of times I would get a man and wife or sometimes a single guy or a single girl wanting a gun for home protection. A revolver (a med to large frame, not small j-frames) is a great choice for a home defense handgun in my opinion. But we arent debating that aspect of it...

I have sold L-frame S&W revolvers (and autos for that matter) to plenty of girls and guys... Both types of handguns have their pros and cons. For me, a revolver is a better choice for HD whether youre a guy or a girl. but thats just my opinion..
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  #59  
Old 04-17-2013, 6:15 AM
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I'll take a stab at the op question.
First, don't get in a twist about "some guys".
I call it little penisitis! I am a man, a veteran, and have been around guns for a while. I sometimes get treated like I don't know anything either. Local gun stores, on the range, where ever.
It is usually the loudest guy in the group, wanting people to look up to them.

It is just the cross section of society. Just take advice you feel is valuable and let the BS go out the other ear.

It doesn't matter what activity you get into, there will always be that one asshat. Don't let them bug ya.
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  #60  
Old 04-17-2013, 9:41 AM
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THIS.

I don't see why theres so much hate toward revolvers. They are incredibly simple to use and rarely ever malfunction.
I don't see it so much as hate, but lack of experience and knowledge. revolvers were for years and years THE handgun for everyone. And while they are "simple" and may rarely malfunction, when they do, the malfunctions often take the gun out of service. And it doesn't take much of a malfunction to take a revolver out of service.

Autos, can also malfunction and be taken out of service as well. but they also can take abuse the revolvers can't and still function. it takes a lot more to take a auto out of action than a revolver.

To me the issue is this. people are drawn to a particular type of gun for personal reasons. They should be allowed to make factual, and informed choices. rather than be limited to just a type because of their gender.

which is why I always presented a glock 19 to women if they didn't have anything in mind. to plant the idea that they aren't limited to a particular type of gun. and I helped that thought along with some words as well.
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  #61  
Old 04-17-2013, 6:14 PM
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I'm hoping I can shed some light on this.


I think the men in this thread are getting a little too wrapped up in the technicalities of the OP's venting. Maybe the other women here can let me know if I'm on track or not; but, I think the upset has more to do with the attitude and delivery of the speaker more than the technicalities of recoil weight, caliber, etc.


What do I mean by that? It's not so much that the man originally quoted in the first post suggested a revolver, it's the way in which he said it. He didn't suggest the revolver as a legitimate way to meet her needs; he suggested it as an option for people too weak to handle "regular" guns. He talked down to her and disparaged women in general.


As a woman, I've been into a gun store and had men insult me by immediately suggesting options, apparently under the assumption that I can't handle anything bigger or better or that I'm afraid of bigger guns. Which is odd, because, as I already mentioned earlier in this thread, I'm built like the proverbial East German swimmer. Or maybe I'm more like a super hot Amazon; but, I digress. The point is that I'm tall and and have an athletic build. So, it is odd when men speak to me in a patronizing manner when it comes to guns.


This is what I suspect the OP may have been getting at. It's hard to describe to men what it feels like to be a woman in a gun store (or gun forum!) and to have men talk down to you unnecessarily. This guy's opinion? He says that this model gun "...is not a gun to put in a woman's hands, whether she can rack it or not". Whether she can rack it or not a woman shouldn't have one??? WTF? If a woman wants a Kahr CW9 and can operate it, what is the problem?


I have no problems with revolvers. I don't own one currently; but, I would like to "just because". That said, I have gotten the impression from men that men think that revolvers are "great for the ladies" because they're "easier". That does both the women and the revolver a disservice. Again, it's not that women are "thinking too well of themselves"; it's that there is a different set of standards for us and it's not always right or fair.


We can say that revolvers have been killin' folks just fine since the beginning of time; but, if a man were swapped in for a woman in most gun purchase scenarios, I imagine that it would be unlikely that the salesman would tell another man, "Say, what you should really be getting is a revolver." Even if the man was a beginner and first-time gun buyer, I bet he still wouldn't be directed to a revolver. Women? Yep. Revolvers.


If it's a woman's best option; sure, a revolver is legit. But to tell a woman that she shouldn't have a Kahr even if she is able to rack the slide, is just ridiculous.


I hope I made some kind of sense somewhere in there.....


BK
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  #62  
Old 04-17-2013, 8:30 PM
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I hope I made some kind of sense somewhere in there.....


BK
I agree with everything you said. After the OP second post, I also got the impression she meant the topic to be of a broader 'Why do men automatically assume women are too dumb and weak to shoot guns?" But the post she quoted was specific and about a direct point, naturally we posted about those specifics going off the information provided. To the person that chose a Glock 19 as the first gun to put into a new shooters hands...bravo. Thats my first choice as well. It is such a simple manuals of arms it is easy to bring a new shooter from nothing to safe and proficient in a short time.
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Old 04-19-2013, 7:40 PM
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Maybe stereotypes often times aren't true. People keep saying revolvers aren't hard to shoot....oh yeah? Shoot a Russian Nagant revolver in double action and tell me that.
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  #64  
Old 04-19-2013, 9:39 PM
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Yeah, but let's be honest... these women all kinda look like men. It's like the East German swimming team all over.
Jesse Abate is a beautiful woman. Women ARE allowed to exert themselves and have muscle tone, you know...
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Old 04-19-2013, 9:54 PM
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Women ARE allowed to exert themselves and have muscle tone, you know...
Not any women I, or 90% of the male population, wants to look at.

It's like the LPGA... about as unfeminine as roller derby.
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  #66  
Old 04-19-2013, 10:29 PM
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I don't think the purpose of this thread is discussion of whether or not they're attractive. It's about them being just as capable of handling firearms as men.
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Old 04-19-2013, 10:38 PM
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Right, which leads me back to my point...there is some chip on their shoulder if they think using the standard in handheld firearms for some 175 years makes them feel like they are being offered a sub-standard firearm...the men who portray the revolver as such are dingleberries. The earth is filled with people who met their fate at the end of a revolver.
I agree with that.The problem isn't necessarily that the women have a chip on their shoulder; it may be that they're simply uneducated. Many men depict the revolver as a weapon that they won't use and only recommend to a woman who can't use a semi auto. To a person not familiar with firearms, that communicates that it's inferior to a semi auto. I wouldn't want to use a weapon I believe to be inferior based on the recommendations of others who should know what they're talking about.
The guy behind the counter has the attitude that she's not skilled enough or physically capable of handling a semi auto. He has the attitude that she's not good enough to use a semi; "here's a revolver that is very simple since you're too stupid to learn to control and operate a semi auto, just point and shoot". Go to almost any gun forum or gun store and ask what type of firearm they recommend for a woman and they'll say a revolver because it's simpler to operate than almost any other gun. They assume that simply because he person who will be using the gun is a woman that she is 1) too stupid to learn something a little more complicated, 2) have no motivation to learn, and 3) won't practice the new skills.

My point is that it's not necessarily the women having a chip on their shoulder. It's that they don't want to use a weapon that has been depicted as an inferior weapon. It seems that the men who "help" (and I use that term loosely) pick a handgun depict it as an inferior weapon that they wouldn't use personally and only recommend to women because they assume that women can't handle a semi auto. And to a person who isn't familiar with firearms, being told to use a weapon that is depicted as inferior because you can't handle a superior weapon will dissuade women from using a perfectly viable weapon. There's nothing wrong with revolvers. I like them and have CC'd my revolver a lot.
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Old 04-20-2013, 6:57 AM
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In my experience with women and firearms, I simply show women the variety of guns I have access to and have them pick out the firearm that catches their attention. I then ask them what it is about the gun that caught their attention. If it's merely the aesthetics of the firearm (typically that's what it is), I then give it to them and have them manipulate the mechanism, unloaded of course.

In a lot of cases, the lack of upper body strength and the rigidity of the firearm makes it very difficult for more petite women to work the firearm they choose. That opens the door for me to show them firearms that are more suitable to their strength and size. The problem is, as we know, the smaller the firearm, the more recoil when it's fired when compared to a heavier firearm that uses the same ammunition. So the necessity to find that balance between what women are capable of handling, and the ammunition they intend to use is important.

In the case of women who compete in shooting competitions, they've trained over a period of time, they are passionate about shooting, and they train, both physically as well as mentally so that they can compete. They are also a very small percent as opposed to women who simply want a firearm for self protection.

In my experience, the majority of women I have encountered, become gun owners because their boyfriend, or husband brought them into the sport. Before that, they had no experience with firearms because their immediate family did not own firearms. A smaller percent know or knew somebody that owned a firearm, but that was the extent of their experience with firearms.

Now, about types. It is a known fact that revolvers are the best firearm for a new shooter. In my experience, some new shooters grip a semiauto too high and then they experience "slide bite" where the slide of a semiauto hits their thumb and cuts them. That can be a deal breaker for women who experience that. That and the fact that the slide is just too hard to pull back, versus simply opening a cylinder to load a firearm.

Bottom line, I firmly believe that stepping back while a woman chooses her firearm works better than just handing her one and explaining why that's the best one for her. Some women are receptive to this while other women, the OP included, do not like someone choosing for them, regardless of the persons experience. And that's okay, it's part of the learning experience.
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  #69  
Old 04-20-2013, 6:05 PM
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Originally Posted by j411701 View Post
Technique, Yes. Also with the over hand technique you are using two mussel groups.
Vicki Farnam has some good books on teaching women to shoot also
http://www.corneredcat.com/
Wait, I am supposed to be using seafood too????
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Old 04-20-2013, 7:44 PM
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Oh, I didn't know that guys were allowed to post in here-goody!

In any case, the idea that women can't handle certain weapons is based in a part of a bigger truth, despite the sexist implications that macho board members feel the need to express. Some women, SOME PEOPLE, cannot handle certain types of guns, and this also holds true for any other device in usage, whether they be guns, vehicles, ice skates, whatever.

Like others have said, it isn't necessarily women that can't handle certain types of guns, but people; I'm sure there are plenty of capable women that can handle devices that some members of the opposite gender cannot, and no I didn't mean "that"...
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Old 04-20-2013, 9:47 PM
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While I am not a female I do find this thread interesting. My daughter is 4ft11 at 20 yrs old and her favorite gun to shoot is my glock 21sf in 45Auto. She is tiny and has no problem handling it. I have no doubt any gun a man can shoot a woman can also shoot. My apologies to the ladies for posting on your thread
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Old 04-22-2013, 9:12 AM
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Bug and/or Bonnie, i'm surprised you didn't verbally knock the snot out of some of the posters. geez, the testosterone on page 1 was enough to make me wonder if I was in the Ladies Forum.

page 2, post #57 is right on. have fun June 1! you are a smart man to figured it all out and how to deal with it.
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Old 04-22-2013, 9:32 AM
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Acting like revolvers are some kind of lesser weapon, suitable only for a woman is laughable. While a .38 in a 3" barrel is something any woman can manipulate effectively, one should not consider revolvers "girl guns". It's a disservice to revolvers and their capabilities, and women offended at the notion of using one think too highly of themselves IMO.
THIS.
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Old 04-22-2013, 10:31 AM
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Bug and/or Bonnie, i'm surprised you didn't verbally knock the snot out of some of the posters. geez, the testosterone on page 1 was enough to make me wonder if I was in the Ladies Forum.

Yeah, especially the clown who thought it would be "cute" to comment to the ladies on this thread about how his wife doesn't have any trouble "racking his slide". Some men just cannot control themselves even for a moment when visiting the Ladies Forum.


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Old 04-22-2013, 10:52 AM
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Wait, I am supposed to be using seafood too????
Good catch,
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Old 04-22-2013, 3:20 PM
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A lot of bashing in this thread so I thought I would join in...

First, to all who say women can't rack a slide are full of it. It is 90% technique and 10% strength if they use the proper method. I "thought" I knew how until I took an NRA course. The method of pushing in with the gun was a whole lot easier and really helped my girlfriend with her difficulty in racking a slide.

Second, that lady shooter is physically fit and very attractive. And I am ending the second part there.
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Old 04-22-2013, 5:40 PM
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I see lots of women in the gun club I go to shooting action pistol and they are great shots "I wish I had the ability to shoot that good" And can handle semi autos just fine. A revolver is easier for the non dedicated to master.
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Old 04-22-2013, 5:41 PM
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Yeah, especially the clown who thought it would be "cute" to comment to the ladies on this thread about how his wife doesn't have any trouble "racking his slide". Some men just cannot control themselves even for a moment when visiting the Ladies Forum.


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Old 04-22-2013, 6:35 PM
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Yeah, especially the clown who thought it would be "cute" to comment to the ladies on this thread about how his wife doesn't have any trouble "racking his slide". Some men just cannot control themselves even for a moment when visiting the Ladies Forum.


BK


clowns have more sense
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"Her hands, her comfort, her confidence, her choice.", Mr K re buying a gun for a woman.

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"The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound."-- as seen on a t-shirt
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Old 04-23-2013, 9:13 AM
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Gentlemen: When you start off a post "I know I shouldn't be commenting on this" that's your first clue that you probably shouldn't. There are more posts from men on this thread than there are from women, which is just dumb.

Thank you very kindly, but please do not tell women what we think, what we feel and what we can or cannot do. Ever.
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