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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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Old 03-24-2013, 1:59 PM
ford_nut ford_nut is offline
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Default LEO father buying for non LEO son

Okay I have a question for you legal experts out there. My father is a LEO here in CA. I have been looking around and cannot find a handgun in stock anywhere and I'm growing impatient (I'm looking for glock or S&W). There is a local store that sells only to law enforcement or military, and my thought is they might possibly have first pick with their supplier to make sure their LEO and military customers can buy firearms. Since I am not law enforcement can I legally give my money to my dad (provided he feels comfortable with it) to buy me a handgun? My concern is that this would be a straw purchase? I'm not in anyway a prohibited person, I don't even have as much as a parking ticket. The only reason why I am considering this route is to be able to purchase a handgun in stock that isn't insanely priced.

My three concerns are:
1.) It's a straw purchase

2.) My father doesn't feel comfortable (don't see why he wouldn't he gifted me my first gun when I was 19) but if he doesn't like the idea I wouldn't pressure it.

3.) The store for some reason needs an official letterhead from their department to buy firearms.

I have some leg work to figure out but I thought I'd ask the most important question, is it legal?
Thank you in advance for the replies, I appreciate it.
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Old 03-24-2013, 2:07 PM
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If your father buys it for you with the intention of giving it to you, I believe that qualifies as straw purchase. That is why Mark Kelly is being lambasted.

Hypothetically, you father could buy a handgun you recommended to evaluate it. Then suppose he finds it lacking, he could PPT it to you.
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Old 03-24-2013, 2:17 PM
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What about your father first buys it with his own money. Then later, for whatever reason why he does not want it anymore, decides to sell it to you, you pay him and do the PPT.
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Old 03-24-2013, 2:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penguin0123 View Post
If your father buys it for you with the intention of giving it to you, I believe that qualifies as straw purchase. That is why Mark Kelly is being lambasted.

Hypothetically, you father could buy a handgun you recommended to evaluate it. Then suppose he finds it lacking, he could PPT it to you.
Yeah that's what I was afraid of. I also wasn't aware Mark Kelly was doing a straw purchase, I'll have to read into it then. Thanks
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Old 03-24-2013, 2:20 PM
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Dont shoot your foot off.
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Old 03-24-2013, 2:23 PM
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No need for your dad to ppt the gun to you. He can gift it to you directly father to son. A father buying a Handgun as a gift to to his son is not a straw purchase.
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Old 03-24-2013, 2:23 PM
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4473 Question 11.a:

Quote:
Question 11.a. Actual Transferee/Buyer: For purposes of this form, you are the actual transferee/buyer if you are purchasing the firearm for yourself or otherwise acquiring the firearm for yourself (e.g., redeeming the firearm from pawn/retrieving it from consignment, firearm raffle winner). You are also the actual transferee/buyer if you are legitimately purchasing the firearm as a gift for a third party. ACTUAL TRANSFEREE/BUYER EXAMPLES: Mr. Smith asks Mr. Jones to purchase a firearm for Mr. Smith. Mr. Smith gives Mr. Jones the money for the firearm. Mr. Jones is NOT THE ACTUAL TRANS- FEREE/BUYER of the firearm and must answer “NO” to question 11.a. The licensee may not transfer the firearm to Mr. Jones. However, if Mr. Brown goes to buy a firearm with his own money to give to Mr. Black as a present, Mr. Brown is the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm and should answer “YES” to question 11.a. However, you may not transfer a firearm to any person you know or have reasonable cause to believe is prohibited under 18 U.S.C. 922(g), (n), or (x). Please note: EXCEPTION: If you are picking up a repaired firearm(s) for another person, you are not required to answer 11.a. and may proceed to question 11.b.
If your dad buys the gun to GIFT it to you, that is legal.

He can then put it in your name via an OPLAW form:
http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/pd...orms/oplaw.pdf

Just remember that you need an HSC.

Merry Xmas or Happy BDay or whatever

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigZombieBalls View Post
What about your father first buys it with his own money. Then later, for whatever reason why he does not want it anymore, decides to sell it to you, you pay him and do the PPT.
This could also happen.
Maybe your dad really wants a new gun & can transfer you one of his old ones.
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Last edited by Ubermcoupe; 03-24-2013 at 2:26 PM..
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Old 03-24-2013, 2:24 PM
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Originally Posted by mofojoe View Post
Dont shoot your foot off.
I don't get it haha. But I'll try my best not to
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Old 03-24-2013, 2:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ubermcoupe View Post
4473 Question 11.a:



If your dad buys the gun to GIFT it to you, that is legal.

He can then put it in your name via an OPLAW form:
http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/pd...orms/oplaw.pdf

Just remember that you need an HSC.

Merry Xmas or Happy BDay or whatever


This could also happen.
Maybe your dad really wants a new gun & can transfer you one of his old ones.
Ok I'll have to see if he has had any interest in a new gun lately outside his issued S&W . Sadly I don't think he will be willing to do some research and testing on a glock to later gift to me. I guess I'm gonna have to get patient.
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Old 03-24-2013, 2:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penguin0123 View Post
If your father buys it for you with the intention of giving it to you, I believe that qualifies as straw purchase.
nope, per the 4473, buying with the intent to gift is not a straw purchase.
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Old 03-24-2013, 2:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigZombieBalls View Post
What about your father first buys it with his own money. Then later, for whatever reason why he does not want it anymore, decides to sell it to you, you pay him and do the PPT.
No PPT requirement for father/son transfers. You just send in an oplaw form with a $19 money order.

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Old 03-24-2013, 3:01 PM
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If he buys it with your money or the intention of selling it to you, it would be a straw purchase and dealinf firearms without a license. If he buys a gun that you can not buy with the intention of legally transfering it to you, it would be a straw purchase. If he just goes out and buys a gun to give you as a gift, that's legal. Whatever he decides to do, both you and him need to stay 100% legal. It's not worth his career or pension! Also, please advise him not to ask a gunshop employee or owner about this. Most are not qualified to answer and will give bad advise. He should actually read the laws himself and, if need be, contact a firearms attorney who knows CA law.
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  #13  
Old 03-24-2013, 3:06 PM
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and now that you've created a forum post about it, if your dad did decide to buy the gun you had your eye on, and he later gifted it to you, it will now look extra suspicious. instead of if had you used the search feature, found the answer, and kept your mouth shut....
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Old 03-24-2013, 3:13 PM
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Search the forum. This has been discussed and debated in detail before.
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Old 03-24-2013, 3:20 PM
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Oh, I learned something new today. :-)
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Old 03-24-2013, 3:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtMerc View Post
and now that you've created a forum post about it, if your dad did decide to buy the gun you had your eye on, and he later gifted it to you, it will now look extra suspicious. instead of if had you used the search feature, found the answer, and kept your mouth shut....
EXACTLY!
  #17  
Old 03-24-2013, 3:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ford_nut View Post
.

My three concerns are:
1.) It's a straw purchase

Technically, yes, if he buys it with the intent of selling it to you. With that said, I know a guy whose wife, a LEO, bought herself a gun or two and then after a month decided she didn't want them and then gave them to her husband, if you catch my drift...

2.) My father doesn't feel comfortable (don't see why he wouldn't he gifted me my first gun when I was 19) but if he doesn't like the idea I wouldn't pressure it.

Well, don't pressure him. If you want the specific gun that bad, keep an eye out for it and buy it PPT.

He can still buy it and not transfer it for a year or more if that will make him feel better.

3.) The store for some reason needs an official letterhead from their department to buy firearms.

My guess is that it's a "regular" gun store that sells to the public but also happens to sell LEO only guns. If you go to a public safety only store like ProForce in Brea, they'll sell to him with just his I.D., assuming you're not talking about an AR.
.......

Last edited by Doheny; 03-24-2013 at 3:41 PM..
  #18  
Old 03-24-2013, 3:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtMerc View Post
and now that you've created a forum post about it, if your dad did decide to buy the gun you had your eye on, and he later gifted it to you, it will now look extra suspicious. instead of if had you used the search feature, found the answer, and kept your mouth shut....
Yes, because the DOJ knows all our identities. Our screen names don't fool anyone! Damn .gov!!!

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Old 03-24-2013, 4:13 PM
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Remember due to Sacto PD off -roster fiasco and current Fed investigation, LEO sales & 'flipping' are under scrutiny.

Remember also that Feds & DOJ are looking into banking records, etc. Hain't much of a gift if they see you doing a $750 bank withdrawal about the time the 10 day wait is up, etc.

No Sacto PD officer & related people would be in trouble if they just went SSE. They doubled-down on stupidity.
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Old 03-24-2013, 4:23 PM
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Right answer in the thread: he can buy you a gift with his money, and transfer it to you intrafamilial (OPLAW form).

If he uses YOUR money, potential problems.
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