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  #1  
Old 03-22-2013, 9:31 PM
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Default What's the deal with only having a front night sight?

I freely admit to not being the most tactical guy on the block, but I've seen this on a few guns and quite honestly I don't get it. What is the benefit of a pistol that only has the front (dot) glow and not also the rear? If all you can see is a floating green dot in otherwise black space, how does that help?
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Old 03-22-2013, 9:38 PM
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Front sight focus is the most important aspect of iron sight shooting. Having two rear dots becomes more of a distraction than anything when it comes to getting sight alignment.
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Old 03-22-2013, 9:48 PM
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Most guys that shoot front night sight only feel that it's a faster and less confusing set-up. They usually have enough muscle memory to index the pistol well enough that they really only need the front sight for low light close quarters situations.

Others like to have different colored front and rear sights so you don't mistakenly get a F-R-R alignment instead of the proper R-F-R alignment. If they're all green, both would look the same in low light.
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Old 03-22-2013, 10:06 PM
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Reading this thread as I stare at my newly installed F&R Trijicon night sights, lol...
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Old 03-22-2013, 10:50 PM
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In many peoples opinion 3 dot sights suck. Especially 3 dot night sights. We are taught to concentrate on our front sight, and to align the tops of our front and rear sights. So the two rear dots don't really do anything other than clutter our sight picture. A perfect sight alignment often means that the 3 dots are not aligned; so we have to ask, what's the point of the two rear dots?

I recently switched to a gold bead front and black rear on my Wilson and love it.

One thing is for sure, noobs love 3 dot night sights.
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Old 03-22-2013, 11:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJ View Post
I freely admit to not being the most tactical guy on the block, but I've seen this on a few guns and quite honestly I don't get it. What is the benefit of a pistol that only has the front (dot) glow and not also the rear? If all you can see is a floating green dot in otherwise black space, how does that help?
Let me reverse the question.

Why are you even looking at the dots on the rear sight?

You should be looking through the rear notch and seeing the front sight.

When you eyes see the rear dots...on either side of the notch...your subconscious wants to look at them. That means it takes longer to see that the sights are aligned, because you aren't looking at the front sight. It is bad enough that you are shifting your focus between the front sight and your target, but now you want to add the rear sight to the mix too?

As already mentioned, it isn't like they are usually aligned when the tops of the blades are aligned anyway, so you aren't gaining anything in accuracy.

Edited,to add: If all you're seeing is a green dot floating in black space, you shouldn't be shooting anyway...how did you identify your target if you can't see it?

The only thing worst than 3-dot sights on a handgun are folks who use a ghost ring sight on a long gun and put dots on either side of the rear ring...it defeats the whole purpose of the ghost ring sights
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Old 03-22-2013, 11:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jessegpresley View Post
One thing is for sure, noobs love 3 dot night sights.
Yes, this is true.

It is the same reason they overgrip the gun with their strong hand and jerk the trigger through anticipation of the sights being on target

It is a control issue, basically just a misunderstanding of how to aligning sights to shoot accurately
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Old 03-22-2013, 11:10 PM
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Guess I might have to consider putting the standard rear sights back on my 1911...
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Old 03-22-2013, 11:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9mmepiphany View Post
Let me reverse the question.

Why are you even looking at the dots on the rear sight?

You should be looking through the rear notch and seeing the front sight.
I'm not singling you out 9mm but your comments do sum up most of the others, as well as my confusion. Specifically, we're talking night sights here, so how are you going to see the rear notch when everything up close including the notch, is one big black blob?

Maybe try this to help see what I mean: pick a night sighted gun from you collection make sure it's unloaded and tape off any rear nights so they cannot be seen. Now go into a dark room and let your eyes adjust. Now hold out your night sighted gun at arms length (pointed in a safe direction, of course) and hard focus on your glowing front sight and see what you see. When I try this, I can get maybe 10 degrees off from center either way before it starts to feel wrong.

Or in other words, based on my little test I'm not confident that aligning just the front sight with the target actually means the barrel of the gun is in fact parallel to (pointing at) it.

Does that make sense?

PS: 9mm to answer your question about seeing what you're shooting at in the dark, try aiming at a night light in my experiment above. When I try this I can clearly see my target but still can be off in my aim. Try it and I think you'll see what I mean.
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Old 03-22-2013, 11:47 PM
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BigJ,

When are we really going to be shooting in absolute pitch black? And if we are, how are we identifying our target as a threat and not our daughter sneaking back in on a school night? There will usually be ambient light around, plus you should have a handheld light anyway.

Second, a real life or death encounter, especially at typical self defense range (10 feet or less) nobody is taking the time to line up their sights. It's put the front sight on the target and press the trigger.
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  #11  
Old 03-22-2013, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jessegpresley View Post
BigJ,

When are we really going to be shooting in absolute pitch black? And if we are, how are we identifying our target as a threat and not our daughter sneaking back in on a school night? There will usually be ambient light around, plus you should have a handheld light anyway.

Second, a real life or death encounter, especially at typical self defense range (10 feet or less) nobody is taking the time to line up their sights. It's put the front sight on the target and press the trigger.
Well, I guess I agree mostly (although try the experiment I suggested to see is not that unrealistic). Which is why I'm asking the question that sparked this thread. You're sort of making the point for me in that the single front night sight doesn't seem to make much since, no?
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  #12  
Old 03-23-2013, 12:01 AM
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BigJ, I've done drills where we either taped up our sights and simply point shot, or purposely caused our hand to tremble with just the front sight on target and we were still hitting the silhouette.

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  #13  
Old 03-23-2013, 9:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJ View Post
I'm not singling you out 9mm but your comments do sum up most of the others, as well as my confusion.
No problem, I appreciate the opportunity to address this little bit of common misconception. If you'll bear with me a bit, I'll try to explain it.

I, at one time, had the same belief until training taught my how my perceptions of how sights are aligned were wrong...it isn't new information, it was thoroughly tested back in the 80s

Quote:
Specifically, we're talking night sights here, so how are you going to see the rear notch when everything up close including the notch, is one big black blob?
Part of the problem is the marketing of the sights. Granted Night Sights has a better ring than Dim or Reduced Sights...and while Twilight Sights might be very popular today, at the time it would have sounded like a love ballad.

Lamps embedded in your sight blades are useful, to non-LEO, in that small window of time when there is enough light to identify your target, but not enough light to make out the light on either side of your front sight.

Quote:
Now go into a dark room and let your eyes adjust. Now hold out your night sighted gun at arms length (pointed in a safe direction, of course) and hard focus on your glowing front sight and see what you see. When I try this, I can get maybe 10 degrees off from center either way before it starts to feel wrong.

Or in other words, based on my little test I'm not confident that aligning just the front sight with the target actually means the barrel of the gun is in fact parallel to (pointing at) it.

Does that make sense?
It is a matter of learning to index correctly ae you bring the gun up.

I do this every night in my darkened house...well, without the taped over rear sight. What I use it for is muscle memory verification of alignment. I bring the gun up quickly, while looking at my object/target. My gun comes up, I see the front sight and the rear sight notch rises to bracket it.

If you tape off the rear sight, I just use the Stressfire Index. What I think you are missing is that you shouldn't be trying to see the rear sight at all...you're not even trying to see the rear notch. You should be looking through the rear notch and looking for the light on either side of the front blade

I must admit that this entails a certain amount of faith in your ability to align your gun at speed...granted I have the advantage of having learned this when shooting a revolver before night sights existed. It isn't something that you just pickup a gun to do...that is the market that the three-dot sight manufactures are targeting

Quote:
PS: 9mm to answer your question about seeing what you're shooting at in the dark, try aiming at a night light in my experiment above. When I try this I can clearly see my target but still can be off in my aim. Try it and I think you'll see what I mean.
I've done this too, aiming at a backlit target or one with it's own light emission is easy. The light from the target silhouette your front sight perfectly...you don't even need a front night sight for that shot..and you just treat your sights as blacked out target sights.

I think you'll find that, with a bit of practice, finding the rear notch isn't really difficult. It is glaringly obvious, because the light on either side is obscured by the rear blade.

I would venture a guess that you are either trying to look at the target or aren't aware of the need to look for the light through the notch.

I will say that, taking into consideration your revelation, in the other thread, about your grip pressure, I can understand your attraction to the 3-dot sighting system
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  #14  
Old 03-23-2013, 9:48 AM
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I'm a bit confused. How does:

Quote:
Originally Posted by jessegpresley
It's put the front sight on the target and press the trigger.
...lead to this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJ
You're sort of making the point for me in that the single front night sight doesn't seem to make much since, no?
I would think the take away point should be to emphasize the importance of the ability to see the front sight over the rear sight
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Old 03-23-2013, 10:27 AM
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As a practical matter, to be effective in a gunfight you need to have practiced to the point that the pistol becomes an extension of your body and the sights are there more to confirm your alignment with the target than to establish it. Even if you have never been formally trained in "point shooting" most experienced shooters can usually put bullets in the center of mass of a target at ranges of 7 to 10 yard using a gun that does not have sights.

Adding the front sight alone to the mix has isn't so much about improving the accuracy as it as it is about confirming the "point" of the gun, sort of a supplemental this-end-towards-enemy indicator. It also provides useful information for aiming the gun using a "whole gun index" style of shooting.

Night sights are not for shooting at an unknown target in limited light. A basic "light fighting" tactic, however, is to identify your target with a quick flash of your light then move so that the target won't hit you by shooting at where the light came from. After that you can legitimately be shooting at a "vague shadow" where the night sight has a great deal of value. Similarly, you may identify a target in limited light who then moves into shadow
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Old 03-23-2013, 10:32 AM
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I've been fortunate enough to have shot in several night/low light IDPA matches. For me and me only I have found three dot systems to be too "busy" on top of the gun. The folks that shot the matches with me also seem to aqree. Most just used the front night sight (along with a flashlight).

Slightly off topic, but try shooting a night time match with a flashlight. You will learn a LOT about what works for you!
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Old 03-23-2013, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9mmepiphany View Post
No problem, I appreciate the opportunity to address this little bit of common misconception. If you'll bear with me a bit, I'll try to explain it...
Understood and appreciated. It sounds like I've let myself fall victim to modern marketing hype, and that I could really use some practice/training in this regard. Thank you (and to everyone) for the through and informative posts. I 'get it' now.

Quote:
I will say that, taking into consideration your revelation, in the other thread, about your grip pressure, I can understand your attraction to the 3-dot sighting system
Remind me? I'm not making the connection.
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Old 03-23-2013, 11:16 AM
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I shoot best with the sights on my single action revolver...just a front blade and a notch. But doesn't work in the dark.

Night sights....how about those that are Yellow in the rear and green in front?
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Old 03-23-2013, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oddjob View Post
I've been fortunate enough to have shot in several night/low light IDPA matches. For me and me only I have found three dot systems to be too "busy" on top of the gun. The folks that shot the matches with me also seem to aqree. Most just used the front night sight (along with a flashlight).

Slightly off topic, but try shooting a night time match with a flashlight. You will learn a LOT about what works for you!
I've been practice sighting with my 92FS and 1911, both of which have 3 white dot systems and I thought maybe I was just too inexperienced, but based on this thread I've also concluded that there's way too much going on the top of the gun. I was hoping to become accustomed to lining all of the dots and the sight picture and everything else but if I can get away with just a front sight I'll give it a shot...
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Old 03-23-2013, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9mmepiphany View Post
Yes, this is true.

It is the same reason they overgrip the gun with their strong hand and jerk the trigger through anticipation of the sights being on target

It is a control issue, basically just a misunderstanding of how to aligning sights to shoot accurately
Must be a super noob then..


Glad calguns is all front like hardened wartime experts to bring me to new knowledge. God forbid you need to actually line your sights in low light/no light situation...

The guys explaining single sight focus is optimal for a handgun are probably the same who put ghost rings on their scatter guns
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Old 03-23-2013, 12:02 PM
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Old 03-23-2013, 12:09 PM
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9mm is a shooting instructor...

Also the point about ghost rings was regarding ghost rings in combination with dot sights.
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Old 03-23-2013, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by CK_32 View Post
Must be a super noob then..


Glad calguns is all front like hardened wartime experts to bring me to new knowledge. God forbid you need to actually line your sights in low light/no light situation...

The guys explaining single sight focus is optimal for a handgun are probably the same who put ghost rings on their scatter guns
You mad bro?
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Old 03-23-2013, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by 9mmepiphany View Post


Lamps embedded in your sight blades are useful, to non-LEO, in that small window of time when there is enough light to identify your target, but not enough light to make out the light on either side of your front sight.


^This


Since you should be identifying your target before your pulling your trigger which means you need a light. Using a light washes out the tritium in night sights basically all you can see is the shadows of your sights.
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Old 03-23-2013, 12:45 PM
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You mad bro?
Not really its not my target/life. Logic is just retarded.

And the ghost rings wasn't referring to anyone in here..

Just the YouTube experts that state "Ghost rings are twice as fast to acquire and a better sight system than bead when shooting bird/buck"
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Old 03-23-2013, 12:57 PM
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I happen to disagree with most here. But I could be wrong.

In total darkness if you have identified your target as a nemisis (like when he's shooting at you), you shoot instinctively. In effect, you're point shooting. Realistically, you aren't acquiring and lining up your sights. You don't have the luxury of time and you don't have the thought process. You're acting instinctively. So it doesn't matter what sights you have since you aren't using them.

If you've trained repeatedly for years, your draw and point will be rock solid. It will be the exact same every single time from years of repetitive practice. Your sights will be lined up just from your muscle memory. In this case I submit you will be just as accurate without any sights whatsoever.

Now if you happen to be in a scenario where you have time to line up your sights, you'll have time to find an illuminated front sight or illuminated 3 dot sights. Since you aren't point shooting due to more time available, it shouldn't matter if you have 3 dots or 1 dot. You have enough time either way.

If you have a flashlight to identify your target, night sights are redundant. It's probably better to have completely blacked out sights to eliminate extraneous information which could add to the confusion and slow you down. In this case I could perhaps see an illuminated front sight as being potentially beneficial. But the rear sights should be black.

In low to very low light with no flashlight and time to aim and identify the target, I can see 3 dot night sights as being very beneficial. Moreso if the shooter is inexperienced - that means most people.

I don't think the ideal night sights have been made yet. I would personally like to see a bright green front dot and a dim single orange line at the bottom of the rear notch. Such sights have been made, but aren't practical because the rear line is glow-paint instead of tritium. So it has to be exposed to light minutes before use. It would likely be dead in the middle of the night when things go bump and you need it most.

Then there's the big tritium green dot front sight and smaller single green tritium rear dot. But it's green and green. I'd like to see the smaller rear dot as yellow or orange.

I think the best out there right now for most people is the green front, orange rear, 3 dot in tritium. It's not ideal, but not bad.

Is my thinking wrong?

And then there's the whole personal preference thing. What one person loves, another might hate. So one shoe doesn't fit all.
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Old 03-23-2013, 5:14 PM
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Remind me? I'm not making the connection.
Oops, wrong connection..I was thinking of another member who was using push/pull isometric tension in his grip
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Old 03-23-2013, 5:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CK_32 View Post
Must be a super noob then..


Glad calguns is all front like hardened wartime experts to bring me to new knowledge. God forbid you need to actually line your sights in low light/no light situation...

The guys explaining single sight focus is optimal for a handgun are probably the same who put ghost rings on their scatter guns
You sound a bit irritated...I'm not sure why.

The techniques I'm talking about aren't new and have been in common use since the 80s

I'm not quite sure if you're saying you shouldn't use your sights or if you should.
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Old 03-23-2013, 5:30 PM
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Old 03-23-2013, 5:43 PM
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Originally Posted by k1dude View Post
In effect, you're point shooting. Realistically, you aren't acquiring and lining up your sights. You don't have the luxury of time and you don't have the thought process. You're acting instinctively. So it doesn't matter what sights you have since you aren't using them.
I'd defer to one of the greatest gunfighters of our time, Jim Cirillo (of the famed NYPD Stakeout Squad), who said that even when he was so scared that his "tongue was stuck to the roof of his mouth", he still saw a sight picture, which calmed him, and allowed him to put down 3 armed robbers in his first shootout (Gun, Bullets, and Gunfights)

Under pressure/stress, we devolve to our lowest level of training. If you make that level, seeing the sights, you will.

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If you've trained repeatedly for years, your draw and point will be rock solid. It will be the exact same every single time from years of repetitive practice. Your sights will be lined up just from your muscle memory. In this case I submit you will be just as accurate without any sights whatsoever.
I have and I've shot with men who are a lot better at it than I am. Thell Reed could hip shoot a can further then I'd be comfortable using sights much less point shooting with my gun up to eye level. However, when he wanted to make a quick accurate shot that was more than a parlor trick, he used his sights.

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I would personally like to see a bright green front dot and a dim single orange line at the bottom of the rear notch. Such sights have been made, but aren't practical because the rear line is glow-paint instead of tritium. So it has to be exposed to light minutes before use. It would likely be dead in the middle of the night when things go bump and you need it most.
You mean like these...both fronts and rears are tritium lamps?



You can get the night sights in whichever color combination you'd like, just tell them when they make the sight bodies.

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Old 03-23-2013, 5:57 PM
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Originally Posted by 9mmepiphany View Post
You sound a bit irritated...I'm not sure why.

The techniques I'm talking about aren't new and have been in common use since the 80s

I'm not quite sure if you're saying you shouldn't use your sights or if you should.
No not irritated at all. The reader dictates emotion unless stated or punctuation is used. I'm posting as calm as day. Like I said doesn't bother me what you use for your firearms I just disagree in this logic.

Night sights in front and standard for rear might be fine for day use or competition but for night use I believe there should be both front and rear night sights to positively pick up your sights and exact point of aim on an intruder or what ever you need to deploy a hand gun for at low light conditions.

That philosophy of being too slow and not using your sights to get a quicker shot off is not proper gun handeling just as a shot gun there is no you don't have to aim just get close. I firmly believe you need to and should aquire sights before every shot every time in any situation. Being slower is just lack of practice and skill. But only using a front sight is not proper or accurate shooting yea it may be dont but to know the exact position of something with a single point does not psysicaly work unless there is defenitiin on where the exact point of aim is that you will not get from one dot.

I can fully view my sight with my muzzle high but still looks the same as being aimed low. The rear sights give a reference point on to where that front dot is located to my point of vision.

But to use it during the day time I see no issue with it.. But having a night sight for pure day use is a waste IMO being you can get better pick up wih a fiber optic light grabbing sight


Again just me.. The way you teach your class or view skilled is all on you but night having full night sights at night will not be a proper point of aim.
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Old 03-23-2013, 6:46 PM
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Originally Posted by CK 32
That philosophy of being too slow and not using your sights to get a quicker shot off is not proper gun handeling just as a shot gun there is no you don't have to aim just get close. I firmly believe you need to and should aquire sights before every shot every time in any situation. Being slower is just lack of practice and skill. But only using a front sight is not proper or accurate shooting yea it may be dont but to know the exact position of something with a single point does not psysicaly work unless there is defenitiin on where the exact point of aim is that you will not get from one dot.
OK, that makes a little more sense. Thank you for the clarification.

I agree that you should acquire you sights for every shot...I said as much when I disagreed with point shooting. I have just found that you don't need the rear dots to establish a sight picture for accurate shooting.

However, I should point out that the goal of fast and accurate shooting is to see the sights without having to look at them. You allow your subconscious to verify that they are in alignment and allow that perception of alignment to cue the press on your already prepped trigger...that is how you shorten the time between perception of aligned sights and breaking the shot. That is how you shoot into a 3"x 5" card at 7 yards at 4 shots a second

The rear dots are just a distraction to a shooter's subconscious when looking through the rear notch.

BTW: I do use a Ghost Ring sight set-up on my FN SLP semi-auto shotgun. It's higher sight line means I can shoot with a more European head position
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Old 03-23-2013, 6:54 PM
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Wow, this thread is very helpful. Thanks guys! I learned s lot reading through all the comments.

I just recently taped over the rear sights of my gun as I found the rear dots more confusing. I didn't know it was not unusual. I thought it was me/my eyes.
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Old 03-23-2013, 6:58 PM
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1. The front sight is what you need to focus on in a defensive shooting situation. Anything else takes precious time that you don't have.

2. It is cheaper to buy just the front tritium sight I recently just did this for my g19 and it works quite well for me.

I personally favor "Dot the i" or "straight 8" tritium sights on handguns because they give you a reference for the rear sight that is very easy to acquire in low light situations.
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Old 03-23-2013, 7:11 PM
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Originally Posted by 9mmepiphany View Post
OK, that makes a little more sense. Thank you for the clarification.

I agree that you should acquire you sights for every shot...I said as much when I disagreed with point shooting. I have just found that you don't need the rear dots to establish a sight picture for accurate shooting.

However, I should point out that the goal of fast and accurate shooting is to see the sights without having to look at them. You allow your subconscious to verify that they are in alignment and allow that perception of alignment to cue the press on your already prepped trigger...that is how you shorten the time between perception of aligned sights and breaking the shot. That is how you shoot into a 3"x 5" card at 7 yards at 4 shots a second

The rear dots are just a distraction to a shooter's subconscious when looking through the rear notch.

BTW: I do use a Ghost Ring sight set-up on my FN SLP semi-auto shotgun. It's higher sight line means I can shoot with a more European head position
I'm not saying you need to have a perfect alignment but exactly as you said you need to learn to visually acquire (secondary vision) front and rear. To simulate my point remove your rear all together to simulate night shooting with only one night sight with semi fast shooting you will be all over. But as you said I don't mean to target match shoot I just mean learn to see both sights in your vision while focusing.

And you can use ghost rings but them being a tactical advantage is a no go idc what anyone says. That was my attack on that because I've heard all too many times that ghost rings minimize sight/shot time.

They were intact made for slugs just brought over to all around use being from rifles barrels and needing another set of sights again to get a more accurate feel of your muzzle for those longer shots. I personally am not a fan of them at all but they an be deployed and used quickly and efficiently but they are not quicker than a single bead.. Maybe duel bead.

But where the single dot system is efficient and rear not needed is when you have a stock to consistently get muzzle position this not being visually but by head placement/feel and sight all in one. Pistol does not have that second element it is all visual sight acquirement.
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Old 03-23-2013, 7:31 PM
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Way faster. 3 dots makes no sense to me. Noisy picture sight. If your 1 for appears between your blades, you're good to shoot.

There's a reason why black rear and fiber optic front is the dominant configuration for comp shooters. It's fast.
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Old 03-23-2013, 7:56 PM
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The other item I noted was I was issued a MP-5 and it had a Sure-Fire light. Then later we had a front night sight installed. Due to the Sure-Fire I found the front night site too much of a distraction (especially for tight shots). I pulled it off and replaced it with the standard front sight. I did the same with my HK-53 and my M-4. The Sure-Fire was good enough for me.

When I shoot the night matches I now use a plain fiber optic front sight. I found when I used a flashlight method where the bulb was in front of the muzzle I couldn't see the front and rear sights (except night sights of course). It was pitch black at the range. I've tried the Harries, Rogers and etc. I've settled on holding the flashlight by the left side of my temple with my weak hand. I hold the gun one handed with my right. I think I first saw Todd Jarrett do this. For me and me only I've come to the conclusion flashlight shooting is a one handed affair. I like the Harries method next.

I also found it interesting a lot of shooters when they turn on the flashlight initially aim towards the light and not at the target. This was true for night matches (non-sworn) and the LEO's I trained. Everyone would get the "hang of it", but it took a few moments.

As a side not its rare to be in a situation where things are totally dark. There is always some type of light somewhere (except the range!)
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Old 03-23-2013, 8:13 PM
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Originally Posted by 9mmepiphany View Post
Oops, wrong connection..I was thinking of another member who was using push/pull isometric tension in his grip
That'd be me...
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Old 03-23-2013, 8:41 PM
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Originally Posted by CK_32 View Post
I'm not saying you need to have a perfect alignment but exactly as you said you need to learn to visually acquire (secondary vision) front and rear. To simulate my point remove your rear all together to simulate night shooting with only one night sight with semi fast shooting you will be all over.
You've confused me again. Either I'm reading your post incorrectly, you're mixing your points or you're running hot and cold. Would you at least proof read and spell check before you post.

You seem hung up on just using the front sight, because (it seems) you don't think you can see the rear sight without the dots on it...this just isn't true.

As I've said, and repeated, you needn't see the rear blade at all...but that isn't the same thing as covering the whole thing...because you are seeing the light around the front blade and through the rear notch


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And you can use ghost rings but them being a tactical advantage is a no go idc what anyone says. That was my attack on that because I've heard all too many times that ghost rings minimize sight/shot time.

...I personally am not a fan of them at all but they an be deployed and used quickly and efficiently but they are not quicker than a single bead.. Maybe duel bead.
They are quicker, because you don't have to establish a cheek weld with the stock, like you do with a single bead, to use them.

It just requires a different style than the traditional American practice of the hard cheek weld to establish the rear alignment point. The high head is easier on the neck and shoulders and has long been proven in European hunting in thick forest. That is why the stock shape of the AK is so foreign to many people
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Old 03-23-2013, 8:47 PM
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Alright well I said my views on the topic you guys can have your set ups with your sight and pistol options
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